Players that I would target with the 9th pick:
- Thread starter bajaden
- Start date
A decent two way combo F is pure value for a team needing it as desperately as the Kings do. Talent for talent there are better options but options that are only valuable relative to the offensive role their team will put them in. Fact is, this draft is all over the place. Some mocks have had Wagner going as high as 6-7 at one point and other mocks have him in the teens. This has the telltale signs of a needs draft beyond about pick 6 or so.
Mocks are completely irrelevant. They are simply something for basketball junkies like ourselves to marvel and discuss and see who came closest to achieving a proper mock to fill in the time until draft day arrives. Kings drafting Wagner would be a disappointment in my opinion, he would fare much better on a team with proper coaching and a team that is known to get the most out of their players, San Antonio comes to mind.
I was on the Moody bandwagon but now warming up to Ziaire Williams.
I have read, who knows, Moody is not keen to be a King while Williams considers Tyrese a mentor.
I also understand Williams had a tough year as Stanford was heavily affected by covid considerations and there were family issues.
Yes, he’s thin and small frame but hope Monte and crew turn all stones.
I have read, who knows, Moody is not keen to be a King while Williams considers Tyrese a mentor.
I also understand Williams had a tough year as Stanford was heavily affected by covid considerations and there were family issues.
Yes, he’s thin and small frame but hope Monte and crew turn all stones.
Last edited:
"Think" is the operative word. Drafts are crapshoots in pro sports - amplified in basketball with fewer players on the floor. The Kings organization is no stranger to player busts or underwhelming picks. In the last 15 draft years - at least half of them are busts or underwhelming. Sure other players may appear more valuable but can you "project" that value? I liked Franz defense - easy to see motivation front and center. Will it translate, can only hope if they pick him. Is he my favorite player I watched, no, but picking at 9, the Kings could do alot worse. I highly doubt Franz to be an All-Star but maybe become good enough to start in couple years They could trade the pick down for 2 'teen picks if they like someone else off-the radar more and increase the number of darts.
Well, Pops is better than just about any other coach, and SA is better at developing players than just about any other team.
More to the point, insofar as the Kings are bad at player development that's an argument to draft a self-propelled guy like Wagner apparently is - as Haliburton clearly is, too. Given that there'll be no remotely "can't miss" option available at #9, I'm fine w/the heady young guy who, like Bags, could become a very good player and, unlike Bags, won't hurt you on his hoped-for way there.
More to the point, insofar as the Kings are bad at player development that's an argument to draft a self-propelled guy like Wagner apparently is - as Haliburton clearly is, too. Given that there'll be no remotely "can't miss" option available at #9, I'm fine w/the heady young guy who, like Bags, could become a very good player and, unlike Bags, won't hurt you on his hoped-for way there.
I'd be surprised if they didn't at least glance at them and they'd be stupid not to. Some of those writers spend way more time than most scouts collecting and organizing the information they probably would be looking for anyway. I'd also bet they get some of their info from front office leaks. Especially from the very scouts that are working for these front offices. I'm sure the FO's game the system a bit too and use them like they do any other media to put garbage out there that might help someone they want drop, or bring other teams to them for potential deals. When Givony sold out to ESPN you knew that these sites were gaining in power and influence.
At this point, it feels hard to justify taking a big at #9, given the current state of the game.
with so many solid wings available, this seems like the draft to snatch one of them up.
I’m tempted by sengun and Kai Jones, but at this point, I’d rather see the Kings trade back to swoop one of them along with someone like Zaire Williams or a 3+D wing as opposed to taking a big with the 9 pick.
Wagner seems unexciting, but with so many bad draft picks over the last decade, maybe a solid but unspectacular player isn’t the worst way to go. If we’d had more of those in recent years, Kings might not be so bad at this point.
I’d love to see a comparison of the top 5 wings from someone who knows more about this stuff than I do.
with so many solid wings available, this seems like the draft to snatch one of them up.
I’m tempted by sengun and Kai Jones, but at this point, I’d rather see the Kings trade back to swoop one of them along with someone like Zaire Williams or a 3+D wing as opposed to taking a big with the 9 pick.
Wagner seems unexciting, but with so many bad draft picks over the last decade, maybe a solid but unspectacular player isn’t the worst way to go. If we’d had more of those in recent years, Kings might not be so bad at this point.
I’d love to see a comparison of the top 5 wings from someone who knows more about this stuff than I do.
Yeah, you could figure they got really lucky with the drop guy last year, if they can follow it up with a need filled and a pick unlikely to fail you'll be making moves more like the teams that have gone up the ladder the last few seasons. Now, if someone from the top 4 dropped maybe you change course but that's super unlikely to happen.
I understand folks being down on Wagner - because he doesn’t have all star potential. But a long, switchable wing that moves the rock would look really good in the Kings starting line up. He would also help the Kings establish an identity. Fox, Haliburton, Wagner, and Barnes could constantly create good looks on O and should be able to be solid on D.
Of course, the center position matters regarding how effective this lineup can be.
Of course, the center position matters regarding how effective this lineup can be.
Definitely true of LaVine, but I think also true of several of the others - Giannis, Leonard, and Booker were guys who I thought were considered to have all-star ceiling coming in to the draft. Giannis was at least on the radar around here at #7 before Benny Mac fell, and Leonard was pretty much the favorite (again at #7) instead of trading down to pass on him again for Jimmer. Booker was probably a bit less on our radar since it was pretty clear we loved WCS, but I remember being shocked he fell to #13.
I'm locked out of my home office system right now, so I got some free time. Who we drafted vs. who I thought we would/should draft since Boogie
2010
Drafted: Boogie Would/Should: Boogie
2011
Drafted: Jimmer Would/Should: Kawhi
2012
Drafted: Robinson Would/Should: Lillard
2013
Drafted: McLemore Would/Should: McCollum
2014
Drafted: Stauskas Would/Should: Stauskas (what can I say, I like shooting in the rain)
2015
Drafted: WCS Would/Should: WCS
2016
Drafted: PapaG Would/Should: Dunn (I know he didn't drop to us, this was a weird year all the way around)
2017
Drafted: Fox/JJ/Giles Would/Should: Fox/Mitchell
2018
Drafted: Bagley Would/Should: Luka
2019
Drafted: N/A Would/Should: N/A
2020
Drafted: Haliburton Would/Should: I was hoping Haliburton would drop, but if I had to be honest I was hoping for either Vassell or Bey.
2021
Drafted: TBD Would/Should: No idea really. I'd love it if Barnes or Kuminga slid, but I don't see it. Kuminga might but that actually scares me some. I'd probably prefer to wrap this pick in a trade that involves any combo of Buddy/Barnes/Bagley for a single better player and then build around that player Fox and Haliburton.
2010
Drafted: Boogie Would/Should: Boogie
2011
Drafted: Jimmer Would/Should: Kawhi
2012
Drafted: Robinson Would/Should: Lillard
2013
Drafted: McLemore Would/Should: McCollum
2014
Drafted: Stauskas Would/Should: Stauskas (what can I say, I like shooting in the rain)
2015
Drafted: WCS Would/Should: WCS
2016
Drafted: PapaG Would/Should: Dunn (I know he didn't drop to us, this was a weird year all the way around)
2017
Drafted: Fox/JJ/Giles Would/Should: Fox/Mitchell
2018
Drafted: Bagley Would/Should: Luka
2019
Drafted: N/A Would/Should: N/A
2020
Drafted: Haliburton Would/Should: I was hoping Haliburton would drop, but if I had to be honest I was hoping for either Vassell or Bey.
2021
Drafted: TBD Would/Should: No idea really. I'd love it if Barnes or Kuminga slid, but I don't see it. Kuminga might but that actually scares me some. I'd probably prefer to wrap this pick in a trade that involves any combo of Buddy/Barnes/Bagley for a single better player and then build around that player Fox and Haliburton.
I would really like McNair to pull this off.
This draft is so weird to me. I've definitely done more homework this year than in the past, so this may not be an anomaly, but it feels like the after the top 6 (including Barnes) there's so much variation among various big boards. There's nowhere near a consensus on a next 4 or 5 players to round out the top 10.
I've seen a guy like Bouknight as high as 7 but as low as 21 on various rankings. Sengun as high as 5 (over Barnes and Kuminga) or as low as 17. Ziaire as high as 10 but as low as the 30s. Just really interesting stuff. It does seem pretty consistent though that Bouknight, Davion Mitchell, and Keon Johnson are the next three in some order (I suppose a consensus), all of whom I've felt are pretty polarizing to fans here. It's one of those years where I feel like anyone in the top 20 or 25 could be justified and taken at any point outside of the top 6.
This draft is so weird to me. I've definitely done more homework this year than in the past, so this may not be an anomaly, but it feels like the after the top 6 (including Barnes) there's so much variation among various big boards. There's nowhere near a consensus on a next 4 or 5 players to round out the top 10.
I've seen a guy like Bouknight as high as 7 but as low as 21 on various rankings. Sengun as high as 5 (over Barnes and Kuminga) or as low as 17. Ziaire as high as 10 but as low as the 30s. Just really interesting stuff. It does seem pretty consistent though that Bouknight, Davion Mitchell, and Keon Johnson are the next three in some order (I suppose a consensus), all of whom I've felt are pretty polarizing to fans here. It's one of those years where I feel like anyone in the top 20 or 25 could be justified and taken at any point outside of the top 6.
I remember Booker looked at being strickly a scorer coming out of college, but no one projected him averaging 20+ pts a game. Leonard was looked at as a really good defender who shown decent offense from about 16 ft and in. He was #1 on my list for the Kings that year, but I never thought he would be this good.
Leonard was my choice as well, but I never imagined he would be this good. Lillard was my guy that year. I wasn't high on Robinson. I believe I said that in all the games I watched of him he only had one wow moment. Jimmer was a PR move by the Mallofs to put people in the seats. The world knew who Jimmer was, and in their minds, no one knew who Leonard was. This franchise has made a lot of bad decisions, and hopefully that ends with McNair.
I believe Mobley, Cunningham, Suggs, Green, and Barnes will all be gone by the 9th pick. For me, that means at least one of these four guys will be available:
Jalen Johnson
Alperen Sengun
James Bouknight
Franz Wagner
Jonathan Kuminga
And I think that's the order I have them ranked as targets.
All of them have warts which is why they likely won't go top 5.
Johnson needs to improve his outside shooting, be more productive in the half court, and has some flexibility/lateral movement issues as well as concerns about his toughness and of course leaving Duke midseason.
Sengun has major questions about his actual height and wingspan. Is he big enough to play center against NBA bigs? If not, who does he guard at the 4? Also, can he develop a consistent outside shot to extend his effective range?
Bouknight currently offers very little as a secondary creator and has issues of tunnel vision and poor off ball defensive instincts. Can he become more than a microwave scorer? Will he be able to hit the three consistently in the NBA? Will he get eaten up on switches where he has to guard bigger wings?
Wagner needs to show that he can add the consistent 3 to be a 3&D guy. Ideally he'll rework his shot mechanics in the NBA to speed up his motion and be more consistent. He should also spend a lot of time working on driving and finishing with his left. Also, is he a three or a four? In today's NBA that only matters in terms of who you can guard. Is he quick enough to guard quicker wings and/or is he strong enough to handle bigger wings? Is he a high floor/low ceiling player?
Kuminga needs to show that he can play on either end of the floor. He was a poor shooter and was often out of position on defense. Right now is he anything more than a bet on upside?
On the other hand, each has significant strengths.
Johnson is a big playmaker which is one of the most valuable archetypes in today's NBA. His defense was a welcome suprise. He battled bigs like Kofi Cockburn and acquitted himself decently while also being able to guard most wings and provide good help defense. Workouts and interviews will probably be more key for him than anyone else on this list. If he shows well in both he could be a very good pick at #9.
Sengun put up huge numbers in a grown man's league on his way to MVP. His footwork is probably going to be top 5 in the NBA on day 1 and he's shown good playmaking and offensive rebounding as well. I was concerned about his defense until I realized that even if he starts at the 4, he'll likely be an improvement on offense AND defense from Bagley while offering significantly more toughness, better screens, and I think ultimately better outside shooting. His inside game is a nice compliment to Fox and Hali and if he is manning the five spot with two shooters on the wings that's not a bad offensive attack.
Bouknight is probably the second best three level scorer prospect in this draft after Jalen Green. His shot creation is fantastic and his hesitation is already elite. He's quick, sneaky athletic and gives a ton of effort on D. He's a poor fit with the current Kings roster, but if he's the pick you find a taker for Buddy and try to find enough minutes for Fox, Hali, and Bouknight.
Wagner is exactly what this Kings team needs on defense. And on offense he makes the right read and moves the ball or attacks quickly. He may not be a star but he's a guy that helps the team right away and fills a need. And maybe it's wishful thinking but some of the talk about Haliburton before the draft was that (a) his shot may not translate and (b) he may just be a high level role player. Well, if lightning struck twice you could have two very good fits next to Fox that outperform their draft slot.
Kuminga has elite physical tools and the potential to be a 2 way monster. He's also shown more playmaking than I thought he was capable of. But he's last on my list because while he may have the highest upside of the five I also think he has the highest bust potential and at this point the Kings can't afford to have another lottery pick not pan out. That said, I think his peak upside is as a bigger, slightly better Jaylen Brown which is the kind of player the Kings need. He's an enticing gamble, but I'd almost prefer if he was gone by #9 so McNair & co don't have that dilemma.
Of course if Barnes dropped I think the Kings have to grab him. But I don't see that. Suggs? Maybe, but I don't know that he gets past both of Orlando's picks or the Warriors at #7.
So that's my list.
Jalen Johnson
Alperen Sengun
James Bouknight
Franz Wagner
Jonathan Kuminga
And I think that's the order I have them ranked as targets.
All of them have warts which is why they likely won't go top 5.
Johnson needs to improve his outside shooting, be more productive in the half court, and has some flexibility/lateral movement issues as well as concerns about his toughness and of course leaving Duke midseason.
Sengun has major questions about his actual height and wingspan. Is he big enough to play center against NBA bigs? If not, who does he guard at the 4? Also, can he develop a consistent outside shot to extend his effective range?
Bouknight currently offers very little as a secondary creator and has issues of tunnel vision and poor off ball defensive instincts. Can he become more than a microwave scorer? Will he be able to hit the three consistently in the NBA? Will he get eaten up on switches where he has to guard bigger wings?
Wagner needs to show that he can add the consistent 3 to be a 3&D guy. Ideally he'll rework his shot mechanics in the NBA to speed up his motion and be more consistent. He should also spend a lot of time working on driving and finishing with his left. Also, is he a three or a four? In today's NBA that only matters in terms of who you can guard. Is he quick enough to guard quicker wings and/or is he strong enough to handle bigger wings? Is he a high floor/low ceiling player?
Kuminga needs to show that he can play on either end of the floor. He was a poor shooter and was often out of position on defense. Right now is he anything more than a bet on upside?
On the other hand, each has significant strengths.
Johnson is a big playmaker which is one of the most valuable archetypes in today's NBA. His defense was a welcome suprise. He battled bigs like Kofi Cockburn and acquitted himself decently while also being able to guard most wings and provide good help defense. Workouts and interviews will probably be more key for him than anyone else on this list. If he shows well in both he could be a very good pick at #9.
Sengun put up huge numbers in a grown man's league on his way to MVP. His footwork is probably going to be top 5 in the NBA on day 1 and he's shown good playmaking and offensive rebounding as well. I was concerned about his defense until I realized that even if he starts at the 4, he'll likely be an improvement on offense AND defense from Bagley while offering significantly more toughness, better screens, and I think ultimately better outside shooting. His inside game is a nice compliment to Fox and Hali and if he is manning the five spot with two shooters on the wings that's not a bad offensive attack.
Bouknight is probably the second best three level scorer prospect in this draft after Jalen Green. His shot creation is fantastic and his hesitation is already elite. He's quick, sneaky athletic and gives a ton of effort on D. He's a poor fit with the current Kings roster, but if he's the pick you find a taker for Buddy and try to find enough minutes for Fox, Hali, and Bouknight.
Wagner is exactly what this Kings team needs on defense. And on offense he makes the right read and moves the ball or attacks quickly. He may not be a star but he's a guy that helps the team right away and fills a need. And maybe it's wishful thinking but some of the talk about Haliburton before the draft was that (a) his shot may not translate and (b) he may just be a high level role player. Well, if lightning struck twice you could have two very good fits next to Fox that outperform their draft slot.
Kuminga has elite physical tools and the potential to be a 2 way monster. He's also shown more playmaking than I thought he was capable of. But he's last on my list because while he may have the highest upside of the five I also think he has the highest bust potential and at this point the Kings can't afford to have another lottery pick not pan out. That said, I think his peak upside is as a bigger, slightly better Jaylen Brown which is the kind of player the Kings need. He's an enticing gamble, but I'd almost prefer if he was gone by #9 so McNair & co don't have that dilemma.
Of course if Barnes dropped I think the Kings have to grab him. But I don't see that. Suggs? Maybe, but I don't know that he gets past both of Orlando's picks or the Warriors at #7.
So that's my list.
Last edited:
