Players and summer events/games

[tyrant]

you're hurt during the nba playoffs, but you're healthy enough 1 1/2 months later to play for your country????

why does yao ming get to miss almost half the season and NBA playoffs but gets to play in the summer games? if im a rocket fan im ticked. if you have a contract to play for an NBA team and your duties arent fufilled for that team you shouldnt be able to play in the olympics or any type of summer games. an automatic disqualification. shouldnt something like this be enforced??? he scored 21 for china by the way

 

[Spike]

Yao plays because he has pride for his country. I wish some more of our better NBA players had the same.

 

[tyrant]

Yao plays because he has pride for his country. I wish some more of our better NBA players had the same.

but if youre a rocket fan that doesnt bother you? your team struggles in the playoffs, knocked out the 1st round again because you have an injury. and your in the olympic games dropping 20 points a month later?

 

[Section 101]

but if youre a rocket fan that doesnt bother you? your team struggles in the playoffs, knocked out the 1st round again because you have an injury. and your in the olympic games dropping 20 points a month later?

He had a stress fracture in February. It takes time to heal. Sure he could have risked playing in the playoffs and reinjure it making him miss next year too. The only thing you can do for a stress fracture is give it time to heal and keep checking the x-rays.

 

[tyrant]

He had a stress fracture in February. It takes time to heal. Sure he could have risked playing in the playoffs and reinjure it making him miss next year too. The only thing you can do for a stress fracture is give it time to heal and keep checking the x-rays.

i would rather see him re-injure it in the playoffs by the team that pays his salary than to re-injure it during the olympics.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Association players have built into their contracts specifics about non-NBA participation in various basketball play - from Olympics, to summer league, to charity matches, to street pick-up games.

Yao Ming is doing nothing wrong by playing for his country in Beijing. Same with Manu Ginobili who announced he will re-join his Argentine teammates for the Olympics even thought the Spurs had concerns about his foot injury from last season. Other players like Steve Nash previously announced they would not play in Beijing in order to rest nagging injuries or just wanting a break and rest. So, it's mostly the players call (as it should be), not the fans, league or NBA team ownerships regarding playing in the Olympics.

 

[tyrant]

Association players have built into their contracts specifics about non-NBA participation in various basketball play - from Olympics, to summer league, to charity matches, to street pick-up games.

Yao Ming is doing nothing wrong by playing for his country in Beijing. Same with Manu Ginobili who announced he will re-join his Argentine teammates for the Olympics even thought the Spurs had concerns about his foot injury from last season. Other players like Steve Nash previously announced they would not play in Beijing in order to rest nagging injuries or just wanting a break and rest. So, it's mostly the players call (as it should be), not the fans, league or NBA team ownerships regarding playing in the Olympics.

you're working a 9-5. you get a certain amount of vacation time and sick time. you're not getting paid for being out of the office for 3/4 months.

N ational
B allers
A ssociation

these players are getting paid whether they're injured or not. bynum is still making 5,000 a minute for sitting on the bench. yao or manu or anyone else re-injures something and come back to the league in november and say "HEY, im gona be out for another 4 months, good luck making the playoffs".

 

[Dime Dropper]

you're working a 9-5. you get a certain amount of vacation time and sick time. you're not getting paid for being out of the office for 3/4 months.

N ational
B allers
A ssociation

these players are getting paid whether they're injured or not. bynum is still making 5,000 a minute for sitting on the bench. yao or manu or anyone else re-injures something and come back to the league in november and say "HEY, im gona be out for another 4 months, good luck making the playoffs".

The teams agreed to the terms as well as the players. Teams have to take equal responsibility. Why should players not play for their countries in the Olympics just because they were unfortunate enough to have been injured for their clubs?

 

[VF21]

This argument comes up every four years. Is someone's first alliance to their national team OR to the organization that pays for their services? And how meaningful is it for a group of NBA players to go "home" and represent their country of birth when they don't even live there?

Bottom line is that when you let professional athletes compete in the Olympics, you throw a whole new set of double standards into the mix. Back in the day (insert appropriate fade music here), that wasn't a problem. When it was all amateurs, we didn't have these kinds of questions.

But the days of true amateur competition are over - mere memories for those of us old enough to remember how it was when the US Hockey Team (composed of amateurs) beat Russia. Good times - but that was yesterday, and yesterday's gone.

 

[Bricklayer]

The timing and nature of Yao's injury dictated this, but it will be somethig to watch. The NT fetish that international players have has caused problems in the past -- we experienced it ourselves with Peja after 2002 -- hurt the ankle, was not 100%, still just had to play for the NT, and ended up struggling through plantar fasciitis for half the season the next year. Last season it was Jorge Garbajossa basically blowing up his NBA career. And some teams do block it -- the Cavs have been holding up Big Z for years because of his foot issues. But expecting Yao Ming not to play for China, in an Olympics held in Bejing...not realistic. He is their great national sporting hero, their showpiece. And China's government views Yao as something of a loaner anyway -- not real big on individual rights or free will over there.

 

[tyrant]

The teams agreed to the terms as well as the players. Teams have to take equal responsibility. Why should players not play for their countries in the Olympics just because they were unfortunate enough to have been injured for their clubs?

yao ming is an employee of the NBA before he is an employee of the china national team (you get where im going with this). this means that you dont sacrifice re-injuring yourself because you want to play for your home team. if you cant be here to do your duty as an NBA millionaire why should the NBA take on the responsibility if you re-injure yourself playing streetball or in the olympics. just my point of view. some agree some dont.

 

[Spike]

yao ming is an employee of the NBA before he is an employee of the china national team (you get where im going with this). this means that you dont sacrifice re-injuring yourself because you want to play for your home team. if you cant be here to do your duty as an NBA millionaire why should the NBA take on the responsibility if you re-injure yourself playing streetball or in the olympics. just my point of view. some agree some dont.

No. Yao is a Chinese citizen, first and foremost. Someone already beat me to it, but there's no way Yao doesn't play in the summer Olympics in Beijing. No way. Same as if the Olympics were held in Chicago - you'd see a whole lot more NBAers who previously declined all of a sudden want to suit up.

<Kazoo playing "Battle Hymn of the Republic">
Nationalism runs deep for many people of all backgrounds. This is its time to shine. Same with the World Cup. I'm not at all familiar with football teams (OK, soccer) holding out their best players because they worry about injury. No way. You are a citizen of your country, and you represent it. That's what the word represent means. That's what respect is really about. Kids, take note. These are players who truly play for the name on the front of the jersey.
</Kazoo>

Anyway, save this answer for 2012, because I probably won't be ask eloquent a speaker by then.
</soapbox>

 

[tyrant]

lets not talk about citizenship here. who does yao work for? who's paying him the millions? there is nothing wrong with representing your country. but when you're injured your injured. why are these players allowed to sacrifice their nba careers over something that really doesnt involve the NBA?

 

[Spike]

lets not talk about citizenship here. who does yao work for? who's paying him the millions? there is nothing wrong with representing your country. but when you're injured your injured. why are these players allowed to sacrifice their nba careers over something that really doesnt involve the NBA?

But that's exactly what this is about. Yao doesn't bow to the dollar. I don't bow to the dollar. It's a different point of view, a different way of life. Some of us aren't clouded by the money. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's pretty happy with the millions he's getting from the Rockets, but it would pale in comparison to the gold medal he could deliver for China.

If I lost my voice at a rock concert, but gave the best show of my life, it would totally be worth it. Even if my school ended up not renewing my contract the following year. It's not the best analogy, but sometimes, people value more than money. Ultimately, I think this is what the discussion boils down to.

 

[tyrant]

But that's exactly what this is about. Yao doesn't bow to the dollar. I don't bow to the dollar. It's a different point of view, a different way of life. Some of us aren't clouded by the money. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's pretty happy with the millions he's getting from the Rockets, but it would pale in comparison to the gold medal he could deliver for China.

If I lost my voice at a rock concert, but gave the best show of my life, it would totally be worth it. Even if my school ended up not renewing my contract the following year. It's not the best analogy, but sometimes, people value more than money. Ultimately, I think this is what the discussion boils down to.

bingo

and this isnt about money. its about putting your duties as an NBA player 1st. i dont want to repeat myself again so ill just leave you with that thought.

 

[bozzwell]

lets not talk about citizenship here. who does yao work for? who's paying him the millions? there is nothing wrong with representing your country. but when you're injured your injured. why are these players allowed to sacrifice their nba careers over something that really doesnt involve the NBA?

Before Houston has paid a single cent to Yao, Chinese basketball Association made significant investment in Yao and Chinese basketball. They would not let him come over in the first place if he didn't agree to answer NT call ups and if Houston/NBA did not allow for it.

I know it's hard to imagine for someone living in USA, but in the rest of the World, sports is not (yet) pure business. The grassroots system is not in schools and colleges, but is largely developed by Associations and their money. Most talented players are developed in academies and through NT youth ranks. Ultimately, they are caught by NBA scouts because they play for their NT. This is NOT only in communist China. Even in Western Europe, city, regional and national authorities pump large amounts of money in sports. Teams are not franchises owned and ruled by the league, but associations themselves, supported by _taxpayer_. While not exactly charities, they rarely if ever turn profit (exception being Soccer teams in England for example) precisely because the main motivation for building and running teams is civic (clubs/teams) or national (NT) pride.

Houston (or any other NBA franchise with any other player) is not paying Yao out of goodness of their heart. They're paying him millions because he is making them millions.

 

[Spike]

bingo

and this isnt about money. its about putting your duties as an NBA player 1st. i dont want to repeat myself again so ill just leave you with that thought.

Say it louder, it doesn't change the fact that it IS about the money. Your duties as an NBA Player? Please. It's a business. It's a job. At the end of the day, you're your own man, not property of the NBA.

BTW, bingo what? I said it wasn't the best analogy.

 

[VF21]

But that's exactly what this is about. Yao doesn't bow to the dollar. I don't bow to the dollar. It's a different point of view, a different way of life. Some of us aren't clouded by the money. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's pretty happy with the millions he's getting from the Rockets, but it would pale in comparison to the gold medal he could deliver for China.

If I lost my voice at a rock concert, but gave the best show of my life, it would totally be worth it. Even if my school ended up not renewing my contract the following year. It's not the best analogy, but sometimes, people value more than money. Ultimately, I think this is what the discussion boils down to.

Sorry but this argument just doesn't hold up to the light of day.

IF the players were amateurs, then playing for one's country might still hold the significance it once commanded. But they aren't amateurs. They are, for the most part, incredibly highly paid professionals who have come to the US to play for ... money. They've agreed to fulfill contracts. They made the choice.

As far as Yao being happy about the millions he gets from the Rockets, he's not getting the majority of the money. The Chinese government gets it. Why do you think they allowed him to come here in the first place? It wasn't for the glory of the game...

 

[VF21]

Having said all that^, I don't think it's about "putting your duties to the NBA first." I think it's about honoring a contract. If a player chooses to do anything that could impact his ability to fulfill said contract, I think he should be willing to accept the possibility of losing his salary if the worst happens. If he plays in tournaments outside of the NBA, including the Olympics, and said play results in injury that prevents him from subsequently playing for his NBA team, his contract should be adjusted to reflect that situation.

 

[tyrant]

Before Houston has paid a single cent to Yao, Chinese basketball Association made significant investment in Yao and Chinese basketball. They would not let him come over in the first place if he didn't agree to answer NT call ups and if Houston/NBA did not allow for it.

I know it's hard to imagine for someone living in USA, but in the rest of the World, sports is not (yet) pure business. The grassroots system is not in schools and colleges, but is largely developed by Associations and their money. Most talented players are developed in academies and through NT youth ranks. Ultimately, they are caught by NBA scouts because they play for their NT. This is NOT only in communist China. Even in Western Europe, city, regional and national authorities pump large amounts of money in sports. Teams are not franchises owned and ruled by the league, but associations themselves, supported by _taxpayer_. While not exactly charities, they rarely if ever turn profit (exception being Soccer teams in England for example) precisely because the main motivation for building and running teams is civic (clubs/teams) or national (NT) pride.

Houston (or any other NBA franchise with any other player) is not paying Yao out of goodness of their heart. They're paying him millions because he is making them millions.

actually yao is making himself millions. and the chinese government. he's chinas well-known athlete. he has sponsorships with several major companies. the richest athelete in china.

when yao injured himself earlier this year his only concern was "am i gona be able to play in the summer games". if im management i pay attention to that. though houston hasnt publicly showed their concern with yao, we all know the concern is there. summer games is a major part of wear and tear on players.

no one is owned by the NBA. but its considerate to not take any chances of aggrivating an injury. shanhai sharks right? thats who he used to play for. and it was owned by a corporate sponsorship. however, the nba is not. the chinese team didnt want to let yao go before his contract was up. they demanded something in return for yao. 3/4's of his salary went to the government.

since the nba still pays yao for sitting on the sideline injured they're losing money. they're also losing money because they cant get out the 1st round

 

[tyrant]

you beat me to it vf21. anyways, owned!!!

 

[Spike]

you beat me to it vf21. anyways, owned!!!

Gosh, shucks. I guess conversations end when someone is pwned. How old are you, anyway?

I'll have to disagree with the two of you. Employment and nationalism are two different things. I'm talking about players fulfilling an obligation to their country in lieu of sports contracts, not the other way around. It's the same reason athletes injure themselves in streetball...they love the sport. I don't think you can tie together money and nationalism. They've also made the choice to play for their country. One is done to line their pockets, the other, for pride.

The contract an NBA athlete signs regards that players ability to play for the team during the regular season. Should an owner be worried that their money-maker may get injured? Sure, but again, there's no way you can tell a player they can't represent their country. That's just selfish.

Perhaps my view is altruistic. That's fine. Maybe we're just soft as a country, and view money as more important. We think our job is our life. I don't think that way, and I'm not putting words in your mouth.

Back to my kazoo.

 

[bozzwell]

actually yao is making himself millions. and the chinese government. he's chinas well-known athlete. he has sponsorships with several major companies. the richest athelete in china.

I forgot about that. Many European players also buy out their old teams from their salary (as NBA has 300.000 maximum for teams to compensate non-NBA teams). So, the players are paying their old team/association and still want to play for their NT. Why would you not want them to? This is not something new, Rockets/NBA new when they drafted Yao that while he will open up Chinese market (more moolah) he does come with strings attached.

 

[bozzwell]

Gosh, shucks. I guess conversations end when someone is pwned. How old are you, anyway?

I'll have to disagree with the two of you. Employment and nationalism are two different things. I'm talking about players fulfilling an obligation to their country in lieu of sports contracts, not the other way around. It's the same reason athletes injure themselves in streetball...they love the sport. I don't think you can tie together money and nationalism. They've also made the choice to play for their country. One is done to line their pockets, the other, for pride.

The contract an NBA athlete signs regards that players ability to play for the team during the regular season. Should an owner be worried that their money-maker may get injured? Sure, but again, there's no way you can tell a player they can't represent their country. That's just selfish.

Perhaps my view is altruistic. That's fine. Maybe we're just soft as a country, and view money as more important. We think our job is our life. I don't think that way, and I'm not putting words in your mouth.

Back to my kazoo.

While I agree with you it's not just about nationalism. It's good business for NBA. If Yao, or Dirk or whomever else don't play for their national teams the public in those countries will turn on them, the same as public in Serbia turned on Pedja after he quit (how quicly 10 years of service and bunch of medals were forgotten). That's bad for NBA and NBA teams. Growth overseas (TV rights, aparel sales etc.) has much bigger potential internationally then in USA.

Yao missing Olympics _in_ Beijing would harm NBA in China as much as Yao's image there.

 

[Spike]

While I agree with you it's not just about nationalism. It's good business for NBA. If Yao, or Dirk or whomever else don't play for their national teams the public in those countries will turn on them, the same as public in Serbia turned on Pedja after he quit (how quicly 10 years of service and bunch of medals were forgotten). That's bad for NBA and NBA teams. Growth overseas (TV rights, aparel sales etc.) has much bigger potential internationally then in USA.

Yao missing Olympics _in_ Beijing would harm NBA in China as much as Yao's image there.

That angle, while obvious, I had not thought of. Good point.

 

[tyrant]

That angle, while obvious, I had not thought of. Good point.

im noticing how you and bozzwell are shifting from the facts. bozzwell had a better argument in the beginning. you have now left the land of technicality. things are looking desperate, so now its shifting towards accountability. but the NBA shouldnt be accountable for wanting players to honor their contracts. there is nothing wrong with playing for your country. but if you cant even finish the job your given why should you be allowed to participate in the game. its like skipping homework to go outside and play. you know you have to handle business first. everything after that is...well, optional.

 

[kennadog]

So....should American basketball players be allowed to play for Team USA? How do you think the Cavaliers or Lakers will feel, if either LeBron or Kobe injure themselves and aren't able to play part or all of next season?

If Lebron of Kobe had missed half of the past season, but was ready to go for Beijing, would that be okay or not?

Just wondering if what is sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander.

 

[tyrant]

So....should American basketball players be allowed to play for Team USA? How do you think the Cavaliers or Lakers will feel, if either LeBron or Kobe injure themselves and aren't able to play part or all of next season?

If Lebron of Kobe had missed half of the past season, but was ready to go for Beijing, would that be okay or not?

Just wondering if what is sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander.

i dont have double standards. if kobe or lebron miss the 2nd half of the season then no i wouldnt want them playing in the olympic games. thats not ok. and im sure it would anger their fans if they were to get hurt again during the games. aside from that kobe and lebron can get their team out of the 1st round. so you tell me!!!!!

 

[VF21]

I'll have to disagree with the two of you. Employment and nationalism are two different things. I'm talking about players fulfilling an obligation to their country in lieu of sports contracts, not the other way around. It's the same reason athletes injure themselves in streetball...they love the sport. I don't think you can tie together money and nationalism. They've also made the choice to play for their country. One is done to line their pockets, the other, for pride.

I'd appreciate not being lumped in with tyrant. Thanks.

I think where I disagree is the whole "obligation to country" concept - at least nowadays. As I've said, once a player turns professional and receives gazillions of dollars, the whole scenario changes. Back when the Olympics consisted of amateurs competing, it was a lot different.

The contract an NBA athlete signs regards that players ability to play for the team during the regular season. Should an owner be worried that their money-maker may get injured? Sure, but again, there's no way you can tell a player they can't represent their country. That's just selfish.

Representing their country? What about athletes who compete for countries where they stand a better chance of making the team, not because they're loyal to the particular flag? Isn't that the ultimate expression of selfishness?

Perhaps my view is altruistic. That's fine. Maybe we're just soft as a country, and view money as more important. We think our job is our life. I don't think that way, and I'm not putting words in your mouth.

Back to my kazoo.

Again, my main point is that players want the best of both worlds and I don't think it's fair to the NBA. As I said above:

If he plays in tournaments outside of the NBA, including the Olympics, and said play results in injury that prevents him from subsequently playing for his NBA team, his contract should be adjusted to reflect that situation.

Personally, I'd rather see all professional athletes barred from Olympics competition but that's never going to happen. That ship sailed a long time ago. I'd much rather watch our young college players compete but, unfortunately, they'd be put against professionals anyway so it wouldn't do much good just to change our standards.

I hope that makes sense. I love the Olympics and sit glued to my TV while they're on; I just don't like the politics involved or the hypocrisy of some countries over their athletes.

 

[kennadog]

i dont have double standards. if kobe or lebron miss the 2nd half of the season then no i wouldnt want them playing in the olympic games. thats not ok. and im sure it would anger their fans if they were to get hurt again during the games. aside from that kobe and lebron can get their team out of the 1st round. so you tell me!!!!!

Merely asking the question, because there shouldn't be a double standard. However, if their contracts allow NBA players to play for their country, then we can be angry, but it won't do much good.