Expectations of Kings' defense, 2021-22
- Thread starter Woot!
- Start date
And that might be why he's kind of found himself on the outs. He came in as more of a SF/SG and has had some success when being that. He's had an increasingly hard time finding that SF/PF spot for himself over his career. If he were a true 3/4 with his decent, but not great shot and sometimes downright sketchy, Miami still would have used him.
The discussion about the wing depth is not very meaningful till we accept the fact that for good or for bad, we are likely to see lots of 3 guard lineups. Moreover, unless Bagley is traded, we are likely to see Barnes spend some decent amount of time there too. This of course assumes a healthy roster as currently constructed.
Even if we exclude TD, we have 4 guards who deserve and will command major minutes. Even if we argue that Davion is a rookie and yet to play any real games, the fact is that the team has invested in him, he is part of the future, and is expected to play a significant role by management and fans. Unless it takes time for him to figure things out, he will see minutes. So far at least, others have not made a case for increased minutes. Perhaps King/Metu will as the season progresses, but each of our guard (including Buddy, even Davion at the college level) brings proven, useful skills, and deserve minutes over current wings (other than Barnes). Given that Buddy is a likely trade bait, given our guard glut, showcasing him is good from a strategic perspective too.
If Bagley is healthy, he will see minutes at the 4. This is also good for us. We need to see if he is worth keeping, failing which, showcase him for a trade. Hopefully, he can improve his value in that case. That means Barnes will have to play 3, even if he/we prefer him at 4.
That doesn't leave a lot of minutes for King/Metu/Harkless. Yes, there will be games where some players will be off, some games that they will miss, etc., and hopefully they make a case for themselves. The team, as currently constructed, will not be able to find much time for our wings though.
Even if we exclude TD, we have 4 guards who deserve and will command major minutes. Even if we argue that Davion is a rookie and yet to play any real games, the fact is that the team has invested in him, he is part of the future, and is expected to play a significant role by management and fans. Unless it takes time for him to figure things out, he will see minutes. So far at least, others have not made a case for increased minutes. Perhaps King/Metu will as the season progresses, but each of our guard (including Buddy, even Davion at the college level) brings proven, useful skills, and deserve minutes over current wings (other than Barnes). Given that Buddy is a likely trade bait, given our guard glut, showcasing him is good from a strategic perspective too.
If Bagley is healthy, he will see minutes at the 4. This is also good for us. We need to see if he is worth keeping, failing which, showcase him for a trade. Hopefully, he can improve his value in that case. That means Barnes will have to play 3, even if he/we prefer him at 4.
That doesn't leave a lot of minutes for King/Metu/Harkless. Yes, there will be games where some players will be off, some games that they will miss, etc., and hopefully they make a case for themselves. The team, as currently constructed, will not be able to find much time for our wings though.
It's possible that for some of these games, we'll see bigger lineups. A front line of Barnes, Bagley and Holmes/TT/Len is quite big. This will certainly result in reduced minutes for our core guys, which might not be a good outcome, even if we match up slightly better this way.
Some changes are likely given the matchups/injuries/performance within the game, but the point remains that the guys likely to see the max number of minutes are 4 guards, Barnes, Bagley, and Holmes. Additionally, at least one center, Len/TT will round out the core 8 men rotation. Harkless/King/Metu/TD will likely get spot minutes.
Some changes are likely given the matchups/injuries/performance within the game, but the point remains that the guys likely to see the max number of minutes are 4 guards, Barnes, Bagley, and Holmes. Additionally, at least one center, Len/TT will round out the core 8 men rotation. Harkless/King/Metu/TD will likely get spot minutes.
Doug Christie will be talking about defense no matter what his job title is. He could be the janitor or water boy and you would still hear from him about the importance of defense. It is one of his greatest assets. It will become a team asset. Mitchell and Fox can be really good at playing defense.
The biggest challenge is team defense. It is how you become a team with a winning record. It is how teams win championships.
The biggest challenge is team defense. It is how you become a team with a winning record. It is how teams win championships.
I don't think I made any comments about losing Bogi. Might be wrong, but don't recall posting anything.
I also don't understand why presenting a view is described as cheer leading. All I am saying is that given our roster, seeing lots of 3 guards rotation seems inevitable. That doesn't mean I support Buddy or Hali guarding Bron/George, but that we are more likely to see them spend time at 3 than King/Metu. You may disagree, but is it necessary to be disagreeable?
I also don't understand why presenting a view is described as cheer leading. All I am saying is that given our roster, seeing lots of 3 guards rotation seems inevitable. That doesn't mean I support Buddy or Hali guarding Bron/George, but that we are more likely to see them spend time at 3 than King/Metu. You may disagree, but is it necessary to be disagreeable?
No need to apologize. We are all friends here, and want the same thing.
Perhaps King will make a case for himself and demand minutes with his play. As of now, I think he is still to prove himself. (Honestly, so does Davion, but we are clearly more invested in him). If that happens, it will be a good problem to have.
Moreover, my argument is not about who is a better fit at 3. In terms of size (and perhaps even potential based on recent play), King is certainly more suited. However, there is no way of finding time for our guards unless some of them spend some time at 3. Similarly, if Bagley plays at 4, Barnes will be forced to spend some time at 3. So, unless Monte clears up the imbalance somehow, King/Harkless are likely to see limited minutes (with a healthy roster).
Perhaps King will make a case for himself and demand minutes with his play. As of now, I think he is still to prove himself. (Honestly, so does Davion, but we are clearly more invested in him). If that happens, it will be a good problem to have.
Moreover, my argument is not about who is a better fit at 3. In terms of size (and perhaps even potential based on recent play), King is certainly more suited. However, there is no way of finding time for our guards unless some of them spend some time at 3. Similarly, if Bagley plays at 4, Barnes will be forced to spend some time at 3. So, unless Monte clears up the imbalance somehow, King/Harkless are likely to see limited minutes (with a healthy roster).
Yes the roster is pretty unbalanced. Is funny of all our guards Bogi had the best length to guard 3 but we traded him away because we we didn’t want to run a 3 guard line-up.
Here are lengths ( defined by wingspan)
Mitchell wingspan 6’4”
Fox wingspan 6’ 6”
Ramsey Wingspan 6’6”
Haliburton wingspan 6’ 7.5”
Hield wingspan 6’ 8.5”
Davis wingspan 6’ 8.75”
Bogi 6’ 11”
the lack of a consistent strategy coming from Monte is his one consistency.
Here are lengths ( defined by wingspan)
Mitchell wingspan 6’4”
Fox wingspan 6’ 6”
Ramsey Wingspan 6’6”
Haliburton wingspan 6’ 7.5”
Hield wingspan 6’ 8.5”
Davis wingspan 6’ 8.75”
Bogi 6’ 11”
the lack of a consistent strategy coming from Monte is his one consistency.
This is so so bad. Why you keep bringing up Bogi is comical at this point. They didn’t want to commit to the contract he was going to sign. Seems like that is a big thing that you continually ignore. Seems to me his philosophy is to bring in tougher minded team guys who will commit to playing some defense while waiting for the right deal to move out Hield and Bagley who is like Bogi in that neither was interested in or capable of playing solid D but furthermore demanded to be the starting 2 guard. Both of these players can kick rocks as neither is good enough to be demanding that.
Looks like his philosophy is intact. Last time I checked, Monte was in Houston where they ran a 3 guard lineup with Eric Gordon playing the 3. Plus we have a couple of wings in place and the plan is to play 3 guards.
Also, looks like he had a deal in place with Hield bringing back Kuzma, another 3/4 guy.
And your drowning in numbers and peripherals. Bogi with a 6’11” wingspan still means he is incapable of playing good defense. I’ll take TD at the 3 over Bogi all day as he’s not soft.
Looks like his philosophy is intact. Last time I checked, Monte was in Houston where they ran a 3 guard lineup with Eric Gordon playing the 3. Plus we have a couple of wings in place and the plan is to play 3 guards.
Also, looks like he had a deal in place with Hield bringing back Kuzma, another 3/4 guy.
And your drowning in numbers and peripherals. Bogi with a 6’11” wingspan still means he is incapable of playing good defense. I’ll take TD at the 3 over Bogi all day as he’s not soft.
Well, not only this, but we actually had a trade worked out before it blew up. Remember?
Bucks lose 2022 draft pick over failed Bogdan Bogdanovic trade - Sports Illustrated
DiVincenzo is a pretty good defensive player and was the focus of the proposed trade. You can't get mad that someone other than the Kings blew that one up and prevented us from getting a good return defensively for a player that we didn't want to sink that much money into.
Bucks lose 2022 draft pick over failed Bogdan Bogdanovic trade - Sports Illustrated
DiVincenzo is a pretty good defensive player and was the focus of the proposed trade. You can't get mad that someone other than the Kings blew that one up and prevented us from getting a good return defensively for a player that we didn't want to sink that much money into.
Last edited:
Wut?
Bogi is gone because it was either him or Buddy, and nobody wanted Buddy. Vlade had that guard rotation all crapped up…. And then the Bucks crapped up what COULD have been a solid trade for us.
…. that being said, Monte may have very well re-crapped up the guard rotation, but we’ll see. It’s a tall order to expect a 6’1 rookie to defend NBA wings, but I don’t recall Bogi defending ANYBODY while he was here… he just used that big wingspan of his to dribble the hell out of the ball and jack dumb shots.
Bogi is gone because it was either him or Buddy, and nobody wanted Buddy. Vlade had that guard rotation all crapped up…. And then the Bucks crapped up what COULD have been a solid trade for us.
…. that being said, Monte may have very well re-crapped up the guard rotation, but we’ll see. It’s a tall order to expect a 6’1 rookie to defend NBA wings, but I don’t recall Bogi defending ANYBODY while he was here… he just used that big wingspan of his to dribble the hell out of the ball and jack dumb shots.
Yeah, feet are the most important ingredient physically these days, however, length/size is key if you are expected to switch as most contenders do and are. Also it depends on how your wingspan is distributed. Bogdan gets a ton out of his broad shoulders which makes him a much bigger target for screeners and puts him at a disadvantage defensively. I'm not sure how exact length measurements are, obviously the hand ones are just rounded to wherever. Scottie Barnes measured 2 inches longer by the Raptors than in the combine, they have a video on youtube. One thing is for sure, Fox and Haliburton have long arms and good length for their natural positions, weight for Fox and weight/strength for Haliburton is going to be the issue moving forward. The other issue is standing reach. Contesting spot shooters was the biggest problem this team faced last year.
As the definitive attribute and not just a contributing one, it is indeed overrated. I think that was the point.
The argument was that Bogi was likely a better defender because of his length. The counter argument was that length alone should not be the definition of defensive ability.
That's like saying prime Sim Bhullar was a better defender than prime Doug Christie because: length.
The argument was that Bogi was likely a better defender because of his length. The counter argument was that length alone should not be the definition of defensive ability.
That's like saying prime Sim Bhullar was a better defender than prime Doug Christie because: length.
The length of posts on this particular topic is impressive. Length matters (ha) - but first:
1 - player needs to be part of a cohesive defensive system and know their role;
2 - player has to know the scouting report/tendency
3 - player has to be in good defending position and physically strong and quick enough to maintain it;
4 - player has to have defensive IQ and good reaction/anticipation;
5 - player has to want to battle - mental toughness
6 - then length can separate decent, good and great defenders. And comes into play big time for multi-positional defenders.
1 - player needs to be part of a cohesive defensive system and know their role;
2 - player has to know the scouting report/tendency
3 - player has to be in good defending position and physically strong and quick enough to maintain it;
4 - player has to have defensive IQ and good reaction/anticipation;
5 - player has to want to battle - mental toughness
6 - then length can separate decent, good and great defenders. And comes into play big time for multi-positional defenders.