[PHX/SAS] -- series discussion (merged)
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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Nash reached for the ball, stuck his head in too close, and he and Tony Parker collided. That wasn't intentional in any way. While the other things you mentioned might show some sort of pattern, Nash getting cut in Game 1 had nothing to do with Gregg Popovich or the Spurs, whether they're a dirty team or not.
the message is that the spurs can keep thier heads in the game but the immature suns cannot. i believe that horry did that to cause a stir on the suns bench and it frikkin worked. now whether or not the spurs knew it was comming is one thing but they (aside from horry) kept thier heads on straight. what would have happened if amare got there and began shoving people and a spurs fan threw a cup of beer at him... he should be suspended and the spurs "win" game 4
just stay on the bench
This is just silly IMHO. Why would the Spurs do anything? It wasn't their star point guard slammed into the scorer's table.
It's not about the Spurs keeping their heads in the game. It's about Robert Horry doing something that could have caused significant injury to another player and doing it totally unnecessarily. He could have simply reached out and grabbed Nash or any other myriad of moves to foul him. He didn't; he body-checked him into the scorer's table.
It isn't about the "immature Suns."
It's not about the Spurs keeping their heads in the game. It's about Robert Horry doing something that could have caused significant injury to another player and doing it totally unnecessarily. He could have simply reached out and grabbed Nash or any other myriad of moves to foul him. He didn't; he body-checked him into the scorer's table.
It isn't about the "immature Suns."
I was thinking the same thing, but far as I know that would be unprecedented. Indeed I think the rule is specifically designed to make the punsihment actually hurt the team in the here and now -- hence you don't do it. If it was just pushed off until next year sometime, then the consequences are really very very mild.
NBA is in a tough spot though -- this is their showcase series, maybe even the defacto championship. And those were major players. And yet as soon as the NBA lets those considerations factor in, then come the cries of favoritism and unequal justice.
NBA is in a tough spot though -- this is their showcase series, maybe even the defacto championship. And those were major players. And yet as soon as the NBA lets those considerations factor in, then come the cries of favoritism and unequal justice.
but should they make their decision to uphold a rule if
1) the rule is too black and white in situations that clearly have gray;
2) a precedent has been set, even though that precedent might have been wrong, and the situations may not have been 100% similar; or
3) not upholding the rule opens them to criticism?
i think every case needs to be reviewed, so i don't quite agree/understand the idea of precedents. and it's even worse if they are making their decision just so they can't be held accountable and just say "i was going by the letter of the law."
but then, i'm not the one making the decision...
1) the rule is too black and white in situations that clearly have gray;
2) a precedent has been set, even though that precedent might have been wrong, and the situations may not have been 100% similar; or
3) not upholding the rule opens them to criticism?
i think every case needs to be reviewed, so i don't quite agree/understand the idea of precedents. and it's even worse if they are making their decision just so they can't be held accountable and just say "i was going by the letter of the law."
but then, i'm not the one making the decision...
I'm just thinking, this whole thing started by Horry cheap shot Nash, and to suspend Diaw and Stoudamire would almost seems like Horry's action is justifiable.
"Oh next game, let me get the 15th guy on the bench come out and cheap shot Nash again so maybe we can ignite more Suns players and get them suspended."
"Oh next game, let me get the 15th guy on the bench come out and cheap shot Nash again so maybe we can ignite more Suns players and get them suspended."
Horry and the spurs IMO get some lee-way about how they play defense. Sad to say but that's how it is in the NBA, once you establish a "defensive" image, the refs tend to give a little more lee-way about how you play defense.
That body check by Horry was downright dirty. and I believe bowen plays "dirty" too. I mean just ask Vince Carter's ankles.
If Amare +/- Diaw gets suspended, then this series becomes tainted and possibly over for the suns. I know the rule is probably black and white, but if a player steps on the court (i.e. leaves the bench) but does not engage anyone how is that equal to someone who instigates the whole thing....especially when the game is over? Horry should get suspended (more than 1 game even) how about rest of the series?
Spurs...boo.
That body check by Horry was downright dirty. and I believe bowen plays "dirty" too. I mean just ask Vince Carter's ankles.
If Amare +/- Diaw gets suspended, then this series becomes tainted and possibly over for the suns. I know the rule is probably black and white, but if a player steps on the court (i.e. leaves the bench) but does not engage anyone how is that equal to someone who instigates the whole thing....especially when the game is over? Horry should get suspended (more than 1 game even) how about rest of the series?
Spurs...boo.
I totally agree with you. Horry is the one who started it and he gets 2 games and Diaw and Stoudemire get 1 for coming off the bench???
Also, earlier in the game when Elson and someone on the Suns got into it Duncan pretty much walked about 5 feet on the court until Bowen pulled him back so why doesn't he get suspended??
Also, earlier in the game when Elson and someone on the Suns got into it Duncan pretty much walked about 5 feet on the court until Bowen pulled him back so why doesn't he get suspended??
No stoppage in play as I understand it.
The rule is an anti-brawl rule, pure and simple. You run on the court during a dead ball altercation, you get suspended. Hence containing any fights that occur to the 10 guys on court and giving the refs at least a shot at controlling it ratehr than the chaos and ugliness of a bench clearer.
While it's true the Suns could have avoided the whole thing by not losing their heads when Nash was sent sprawling into the scorer's table, I think the bigger picture is that the Suns have been getting thoroughly jobbed during this series. At the point where Nash was on the floor from a really dirty cheap shot, I think almost every player in the league would have responded the same way. Enough is enough... isn't it?
Half a dozen other Suns didn't. And no, some guys use their heads. Then some guys enter the league at age 18 or whatever and can't even spell head. Just unfortunate the Suns had a couple of those waiting to react. Everone would react to that play, but then you did the big stupid and start marching out on the court toward the fracas...you just can't, and everyone knows you can't. You actually owe it to your team to not.
And it really is too bad. Kurt Thomas is going to have to play a whale of a game, and somehow stay out of foul trouble (something he's never been good at at all) or the advantage will be back to the Spurs.
Fair enough. I guess my real complaint is with the rule itself and the entire concept of "zero tolerance." I would give credence to the extenuating circumstance AND the fact neither of them actually got within 10 feet of opposing players but that's just me, I suppose.
It's incredibly unfortunate this had to happen because this series has really been enjoyable. I'm sure hoping the Suns can pull it together and win game 5.
It's incredibly unfortunate this had to happen because this series has really been enjoyable. I'm sure hoping the Suns can pull it together and win game 5.
they will change the rule next year but thats the rule right now. they cant follow the rule with the new york denver fight and then all of a sudden change it because theres more at stake now. its the same season, same rules. the suns are trying to bs their way around the penalties like judge judy is hearing the case when its actually the supreme court. follow the rules and you wont get suspended. its that simple and everyone should have known that. especially especially especially this season. not last season, or next season. this season
This really is too bad. The only time I've ever rooted for the Spurs to win a series was when they were playing the Lakers. Not that I ever disliked them, but I was never in their corner.
Now, because I'm tired of hearing about how great the Suns are and how Steve Nash is the NBA's savior, I actually actively root for the Spurs to beat the Suns (it also had something to do with Duncan getting kicked out of that Dallas game a few weeks ago).
And then this happens. Makes me NOT want the Spurs to win, not because I now dislike them, but because it's extremely unfair to the team and fans of the NBA for Stoudemire and Diaw to be suspended for a pivotal Game 5. If the Suns lose, they have to go back to San Antonio for Game 6, facing elimination. Of course, they'll have two players back ready for blood, but they're still at a disadvantage, and an unfair one at that.
Oh well. Maybe the Suns win and the Pistons can thrash the hell out of them in the Finals, which is something that would bring great satisfaction to me.
Now, because I'm tired of hearing about how great the Suns are and how Steve Nash is the NBA's savior, I actually actively root for the Spurs to beat the Suns (it also had something to do with Duncan getting kicked out of that Dallas game a few weeks ago).
And then this happens. Makes me NOT want the Spurs to win, not because I now dislike them, but because it's extremely unfair to the team and fans of the NBA for Stoudemire and Diaw to be suspended for a pivotal Game 5. If the Suns lose, they have to go back to San Antonio for Game 6, facing elimination. Of course, they'll have two players back ready for blood, but they're still at a disadvantage, and an unfair one at that.
Oh well. Maybe the Suns win and the Pistons can thrash the hell out of them in the Finals, which is something that would bring great satisfaction to me.
In my book these suns suspensions wouldnt be so bad if bowen had gotten his just desert. Bowen is the dirtiest player in the league right now and NBA head office is in total denial. They refuse to punish the guy. Put a friggin stop to Bowen and his knees to the groin and him sliding under a guy going up for a layup before he ends someones career. This has cemented my dislike for the spurs.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070516/ap_on_sp_bk_ne/bkn_suns_spurs_suspensions
Amare and Diaw suspended one game, Horry suspended 2.
"It's not about fairness, it's about correctness"
Amare and Diaw suspended one game, Horry suspended 2.
"It's not about fairness, it's about correctness"