Petrie can see the job ahead

VF21 · Jun 6, 2005

thesanityannex said:

Prices have gone up EVERY YEAR. I know one person whose tickets are going to be about $115 a seat per game this year. They were $90 in 2002-2003.

So this year they'll be paying - if they decide to do it - $9,430 for tickets they only paid $7,380 for three years ago. That's a pretty significant change, and that's only since 2003. If I remember correctly, his tickets were only about $45 each in 2000 for a total of about $3,690.

Is it worth it? As long as the team was getting better and had a legitimate shot, I think people were willing to put up with increasing prices. But now, with so much uncertainty, I think it's going to be hard for some people to pony up close to $10,000 for a product that could well be in decline.

thesanityannex · Jun 6, 2005

Padrino said:

They do own a Casino in Vegas. Gambling is in their blood.

VF21 · Jun 6, 2005

No, owning casinos is in their blood. Successful casino owners are like successful drug dealers. Neither actually consumes their own products.

whozit · Jun 6, 2005

Pet peeve

I was one who supported the decision for the trade. I saw neither the pre-trade team or post-trade team as title contenders. Post trade I lowered my expectations slightly, very slightly. I fully expected this team to get out of the first round (despite stating a .500 ballclub didn't deserve to be in the Western conferance playoffs in the first place) I was dead wrong with my expectations for last years playoff run. I hope I am not wrong about the future success of the team.

Webber's health the day after the trade became irrelevant. He is now involved with a different team being used in a different set of circumstances in a different environment. If he remains healthy (hopefully so) for the remainder of his contract, IT DOES NOT mean he would have for the Kings. If he does go down injured, IT DOES NOT mean he would have for the Kings. It is a point that will never be known.

The only thing that matters in regards to the trade is what happens to the team named the Kings this summer going into the future.

thesanityannex · Jun 6, 2005

And we know what happens when they do consume their own product a la Tony Montana.

not a good sign

kingsfannPDX · Jun 6, 2005

wow. what a good read this has been. good points being made by everyone. not much for me to add. i keep my fingers crossed that the maloofs and petrie do what it takes to get this team back to where we would like.

Kingsgurl · Jun 6, 2005

thesanityannex said:

Doesn't sound like MUCH????? Tickets that just a few short years ago were $41.00 a piece (82.00 for the pair) are NOW $115 per seat (plus parking) that's $230 dollars PER home game. That's well over a 100 percent increase over recent years. That's one thing when you know the team is winning, or exciting, or you are connected with the players. It's another thing entirely when you know nothing about the team that will take the floor in October, or even if that same team will be the one you are watching in March.
The key here is the breaking point, and EVERYONE has one. Look at it this way. If season ticket prices were 500 dollars for the whole season, would you get them? How about 600? 700? 800? 900? 10,000? 20,000? etc. Somewhere along the line, there would be a point at which you said, 'no, I can't afford it' or 'no, it's not worth it' All I am saying is that they are pushing many people toward that crital mass, and putting an inferior team on the floor while charging elite team prices will only escalate that.
This isn't about winning and losing even. I've BEEN through the lean years (which I get the feeling are some sort of mythical time to some of you) and I can go through the rough patches or even years again. However, that's a HUGE chunk of money (think about it, you could buy a boat, a car, or go on SEVERAL vacations to exotic places while watching your team on TV)
So you see, it may seem a monor increase, but it really isn't.

SacTownKid · Jun 6, 2005

VF21 said:

Well they were absolutely blasted on the inside during the regular season. My keen logic suggests that trend would have continued.

Kingsgurl · Jun 6, 2005

You mean as opposed to the 'improved' defense we saw in the play offs?

KP · Jun 6, 2005

whozit said:

I was one who supported the decision for the trade. I saw neither the pre-trade team or post-trade team as title contenders. Post trade I lowered my expectations slightly, very slightly. I fully expected this team to get out of the first round (despite stating a .500 ballclub didn't deserve to be in the Western conferance playoffs in the first place) I was dead wrong with my expectations for last years playoff run. I hope I am not wrong about the future success of the team.

Webber's health the day after the trade became irrelevant. He is now involved with a different team being used in a different set of circumstances in a different environment. If he remains healthy (hopefully so) for the remainder of his contract, IT DOES NOT mean he would have for the Kings. If he does go down injured, IT DOES NOT mean he would have for the Kings. It is a point that will never be known.

The only thing that matters in regards to the trade is what happens to the team named the Kings this summer going into the future.

Great post.

thesanityannex · Jun 6, 2005

Kingsgurl said:

1500 more for season tickets doesnt sound like much of a difference.
50 for one game does.

Kingsgurl · Jun 6, 2005

You do realize we have the 4th highest prices in the league, right? Out of curiosity, do you have season tickets? Know someone who does? Do they (or you) think the prices are A-OK?

I wish I thought 1500 dollars was nothing.

AleksandarN · Jun 6, 2005

Ok I was reading this trhead for awhile now. I do not want to post anything that can be negative inreguards to Webber but people here are underestimating Petrie. The one person I will defend is Geoff. Petrie made this trade given the health reasons of Webber. No way he would trade Webber otherwise. What made Petrie shop Webber is evident, his health. Look at what was reported. Webber did not pratice with the team all season due to his knee. In Philly even King(Philly's GM) said that he did not fully know how bad the knee was untill after the trade. All you have to look at is Penny and MCDyess and how they fared before and after the same injury Webber is dealing with.

The comments of how we would have done this last part of season had Webber not been traded is puzzling. Let me ask you this what was our depth like after the trade? Petrie traded for the guys that gave us depth were we needed it most the front court. Petrie did not want to lose in the first round of the playoffs when he traded Webber. It was very bad luck that we had the injury to Brad shortly after the trade.

I still believe in Petrie. We will get better not because of the players we have but what who we have running the Kings(Petrie and the Maloofs)

P.S. I have nothing agianst Webber. Actually I was against the trade at first given what we got for him. I actually posted my frustrations on this same board the day of the trade. But now knowing what I know about Webber's health I realized we got what we could get for him at the time.

SactoGreg · Jun 7, 2005

Regarding the Trade

What I don't understand is why people continue to post comments like "look at the depth", or "now we have three large contracts to move instead of one massive agreement".

Please!

Last I checked, the Kings got bounced in the first round against a team many were glad to draw.

And now that the team has "all these smaller, movable pieces", GP has to work some magic JUST TO MAKE THIS TEAM COMPETITIVE. And let's be real. COMPETITIVE and CONTENDER are two very different things.

Petrie is good. But can he resurrect a team that is lost in a sea of mediocrity by next season?

My heart tells me "there's hope", but my head tells me otherwise...

Team Dime · Jun 7, 2005

AleksandarN said:

Ok I was reading this trhead for awhile now. I do not want to post anything that can be negative inreguards to Webber but people here are underestimating Petrie. The one person I will defend is Geoff. Petrie made this trade given the health reasons of Webber. No way he would trade Webber otherwise. What made Petrie shop Webber is evident, his health. Look at what was reported. Webber did not pratice with the team all season due to his knee. In Philly even King(Philly's GM) said that he did not fully know how bad the knee was untill after the trade. All you have to look at is Penny and MCDyess and how they fared before and after the same injury Webber is dealing with.

The comments of how we would have done this last part of season had Webber not been traded is puzzling. Let me ask you this what was our depth like after the trade? Petrie traded for the guys that gave us depth were we needed it most the front court. Petrie did not want to lose in the first round of the playoffs when he traded Webber. It was very bad luck that we had the injury to Brad shortly after the trade.

I still believe in Petrie. We will get better not because of the players we have but what who we have running the Kings(Petrie and the Maloofs)

P.S. I have nothing agianst Webber. Actually I was against the trade at first given what we got for him. I actually posted my frustrations on this same board the day of the trade. But now knowing what I know about Webber's health I realized we got what we could get for him at the time.

Great post. My thoughts exactly. I think alot of people are just blindly defending Webber and they kind of lost track of just how precarious his health really is. It should send up some pretty big red flags when the guy doesn't practice all year.

Gilles · Jun 7, 2005

SactoGreg said:

I think so far this team was closest to knock SAS out of this postseason.

Packt · Jun 7, 2005

AleksandarN said:

Ok I was reading this trhead for awhile now. I do not want to post anything that can be negative inreguards to Webber but people here are underestimating Petrie. The one person I will defend is Geoff. Petrie made this trade given the health reasons of Webber. No way he would trade Webber otherwise. What made Petrie shop Webber is evident, his health. Look at what was reported. Webber did not pratice with the team all season due to his knee. In Philly even King(Philly's GM) said that he did not fully know how bad the knee was untill after the trade. All you have to look at is Penny and MCDyess and how they fared before and after the same injury Webber is dealing with.

The comments of how we would have done this last part of season had Webber not been traded is puzzling. Let me ask you this what was our depth like after the trade? Petrie traded for the guys that gave us depth were we needed it most the front court. Petrie did not want to lose in the first round of the playoffs when he traded Webber. It was very bad luck that we had the injury to Brad shortly after the trade.

I still believe in Petrie. We will get better not because of the players we have but what who we have running the Kings(Petrie and the Maloofs)

P.S. I have nothing agianst Webber. Actually I was against the trade at first given what we got for him. I actually posted my frustrations on this same board the day of the trade. But now knowing what I know about Webber's health I realized we got what we could get for him at the time.

Depth? That depth still got pummeled by some no name scrub. And it really was unfortunate that Brad got injured... but wait I thought we had depth on our side. Isn't that when depth should kick in? The only guy who got any kind of significant playing time in the PO was a 6'7 Thomas.

whozit · Jun 7, 2005

Depth that is not used (Ostertag) is an expense that is next to worthless.

edit: Worthless is not an indication or inditment of the player, just the value to the team chances.

AleksandarN · Jun 7, 2005

Packt said:

Yes at least we had depth, before the trade we had none.

VF21 · Jun 7, 2005

AleksandarN said:

You're making a huge assumption that isn't quite supported by the various comments made by Petrie and the Maloofs subsequent to THE TRADE.

First, Petrie didn't dream up this deal. He received a phone call from the Sixers, based on what he said AND what the Maloofs said.

Geoff Petrie would not have pulled the trigger on this deal himself. Webber was the franchise player. You don't trade away the franchise player without letting the owners know what's going on. My educated guess is that he called the Maloofs and THEY told him to pull the trigger. He did so.

Joe Maloof has as much as come right out and said this with his and Gavin's comments about rebuilding the team and trading Webber in various interviews after the fact.

So, as much as I respect Petrie, I don't believe this trade had his full, complete and unwavering support. It didn't look like it when he announced it - and it went contrary to everything Petrie has done in the past. If there's a reason for it, I strongly suspect it was the Maloofs who said pull the trigger because THEY were afraid of not being able to do so later.

Team Dime - I am not blindly defending anyone. Nor are the majority of other posters who do not think the trade was the best possible scenario. If you look around the league, you'll find a vast majority of people scratching their heads, wondering why the Kings did it when they did...and for the players they received in return. BTW could you possibly point out a precise location where you were able to determine "precisely how precarious" Webber's health is? His knee was still recovering. Orthopedic surgeons say it takes more than 18 months for all the tissue, cartilege, etc. to fully recover. So, he didn't practice at times because there was a modicum of swelling, which is to be expected. They (meaning the Kings) didn't want to push him too hard because it could have actually set back the total recovery. How do I know this? Personal experience of a very close friend who had the exact same procedure done about three months after Webber. And no, before you ask, he's not an athlete. He's a hard-rock miner - and puts every bit as much stress, etc. on his knee as Webber does on his, according to his own physician.

AleksandarN - I absolutely love these comments about how we now have depth where before we didn't have any. Depth doesn't mean a blasted thing if your starters aren't good enough to get the job done. We had a really deep bench once before - where did it get us? And Petrie has NOT once said the trade was done because of Webber's knee. What he has said TIME AND TIME AGAIN...right after the trade and in subsequent interveiws... was that it was done because of financial considerations. And those financial considerations were those of the Maloofs... you can take that to the bank.

We'll eventually see the outcome of all the drama that occurred this past season. My heart wants to tell me everything will be okay, but - much like SactoGreg - my brain is screaming otherwise. Believe me, I would love it if the heart won - just this once.

whozit · Jun 7, 2005

One of my biggest fears is the Maloofs. They milked the fans with the previous edition of the Kings as far as they could and then some. Earlier I believe you questioned their people skills and I think you may of had a point there. I am not sure if they are willing to do what it takes to restore confidence in them as owners. If the team is going to rebound, Petrie has to have a fairly free hand in using all of the resources available. They have the mid-level and trade excemptions available, they need to allow Petrie to use them if necessary. They also have the possibility of a S & T with Mobley (personally, I think he will walk with the Kings going empty handed). I think they have passed the breaking point in terms of price relative to the product on the floor.

Actions will speak much louder than words.

Kingsgurl · Jun 7, 2005

This isn't about Webber anymore. It's about the players we DO have. The ones who will be playing for us come fall. The comments about depth puzzle me, because I don't see a deep team (certainly not right now) Depth, to me, means quality, not quantity. All teams have 12 players. Having depth means the collective level of your 12 players is higher than most teams, means you are 2 or even 3 deep in QUALITY players at all positions. That would be deep. It means you have a player or two or even three on your bench who could be starters for a majority of teams (and before you jump in with Bobby Jackson please remember that he has missed more games than he has played for the last 2 seasons and is not quite the player he once was, which, as we have come to know in the NBA business oriented world means he is next under the bus) In other words, having 2 or 3 players who happen to play the same position doesn't make you 'deep' not if none of them would even be starting for you if you had any other option.Maybe someone could break down the whole depth angle for me and show me how they get the feeling we are?
Bibby/Bobby
Kevin
Peja/Corliss
Thomas/Skinner
Brad/Tag
a draft pick, a MLE player (or 2 if we split it) and some minimum contracts to round out the rest. That's NOT deep.

Need some trades, BIG trades.

VF21 · Jun 7, 2005

Kingsgurl said:

I think that pretty much sums up the whole situation...

KP · Jun 7, 2005

Kingsgurl said:

Good post Kingsgurl. I'd really like to see the answer to that last question you posed. Having more guys that aren't as good doesn't make you deep... it just makes you lose. Rebounding didn't get any better(-2 diff), our defense got worse, and our offense (while at times was still high scoring) stalled at times because it was almost all one on one, the assists just dissapeared, and as much as Mike wants to talk about leadership there just plain wasn't any. Where was the benefit gained? All we can point to is flexibility contract wise and/or money and the jury is still out if either one of those will prove true in the end.

thesanityannex · Jun 7, 2005

Kingsgurl said:

1500 on top of alread putting down 10000.

whozit · Jun 7, 2005

Now:

Bibby/Bobby
Kevin
Peja/Corliss
Thomas/Skinner
Brad/Tag

W/O either trade

Bibby/Bobby
Christie/Martin
Peja
Webber
Brad/Tag

W/O Webber trade

Bibby/Bobby
Martin
Peja
Webber
Brad/Tag

Under any of those scenerios, the team would have a ton of work to do. None of them look appealing. I do not see depth in any of them. I do not see a contending team in any of them. Competitive we will have to wait to see, hopefully for the better.

I think I am going to be sick (as far as sickness goes, refer to my analysis on some of my own proposals). If I am on the jury, I am still waiting on evidence to what takes the floor come November.

Bingo. I still think it was the prudent move despite last years outcome. Again, I just hope I'm not as wrong as I was about the playoffs last year.

VF21 · Jun 7, 2005

thesanityannex said:

Did you READ the other posts? Have you understood how much the prices have risen in the past few years? Do you honestly think these are RICH people? They're not. In a majority of cases, people who get season tickets are giving up other things. At some point, they have to reassess whether or not they can continue to do so, just like the Maloofs had to reassess how much they would be willing to pay in salaries, luxury tax, etc.

Everything has a point at which it becomes too expensive. Just what puts you in a position to determine what that point is for someone else?

whozit · Jun 7, 2005

The prices of the tickets are mind bongling. I have a hard time convincing my better half that league pass was a justifiable expense.

But the other point was, what is fair on one side is fair for the other. I think your comment about the owners people skills is applicable here.

thesanityannex · Jun 7, 2005

VF21 said:

No, I don't read anyone elses posts. I just post randomly. What did I say that led you to believe I felt like I was in a position to determine the point at which it became too expensive for someone? I stated: to me, if I were a season ticket holder, I would not see 1500 more dollars as that much of a burden if I was already going to put out 10000 dollars. If people don't like the prices, they won't pay them. Bottom line. This does not need to turn into an argument.

1kingzfan · Jun 7, 2005

OK, here I am. A real life example of what VF21 and KG have referring to. I am an 8-year season ticket holder that is now struggling with my decision on whether or not to renew.

To thesanityannex, you just DON'T GET IT.

My highly propagandized season ticket invoice package arrived today. Another hike in prices as we were notified just before the end of the regular season. Here's my problem...

I've been in the lower level since Day 1 when ticket prices there cost the same as in the roof on sidecourt now. The escalation in prices year after year was acceptable because the team made great strides to get better...and we did. The Maloofs tried to each year add something to the season ticket package to increase its value even more...they were highly into customer service and enhancing season ticket holders' investment in the team. IMO this ended after the Kings got knocked out by LA in 2002.

At that pinnacle in the Kings' rennaissance, SAC had the 3rd highest payroll in the NBA. Then, for the first time, we saw advertised, conscious efforts to reduce payroll. And today, the Kings are lodged exactly in the middle of the league in payroll at #15. Meanwhile, season ticket prices have continued to escalate. That's not right.

Also, after the 2002 WCF devastation, the Maloofs stopped enhancing the season ticket holder experience. In the last 3 years, nothing new has been added, except the on-line options to pay for tickets (bigger advantage for the Kings than me) and transfer tix to indivisulas when you want to give them away or sell them to someone (I've NEVER used this feature). All the "extras" have remained exactly the same...for 3 years. No effort to further enhance the season ticket holder experience. Never even hear from my season ticket rep any more. Meanwhile, season ticket prices have continued to escalate. That's not right.

Finally. I am firmly in the camp that the Maloofs (with their Petrie Puppet, in this particular case) blew up this season and ended any chance we had of achieving that ultimate goal by sending off Doug and Chris to career Siberias. It was purely a financial-induced, potentially risk-reducing move, not to make our team better. You can always argue that things are long-term and go the self-fulfilling prophecy route, even if teh Kings never win a title in teh next few years. This is NOT meant to restart that now age-old debate, but in the end, losing miserably to the Sonics proved the point. The interviews with coaches and players right after February 23rd also proved the point. THEY all knew. For me, given what I pay for entertainment, I felt abandoned as a fan. Meanwhile, season ticket prices have continued to escalate. That's not right.

The 7-year ride we had was fun to be a part of, and I got value for my "investment" until the latter part of this season. I am now pushed to the limits of affordability with the latest increases, and so now I have to question, for the first time in 8 years, if the entertainment value justifies the expense. I have already been pushing being able to afford these tix for the last 2 years.

I now must decide if I want to become a rabid TV fan, like most of you here, since I won't miss a game on Comcast, or re-up and start the ride over again. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that I will always be a fan of this team, but now I have to think of what I can do to entertain myself and my girlfriend over the next year for the new price tag for tix and parking of exactly $11,000.

A boat? Caribbean, Hawaiian, European vacations? Gambling junkets to Vegas? Other investments? Swanky restaurant dinners every weekend for a year? ALMOST ALL of the above?

On the flip side, giving up the Kings experience (note, NOT the Maloof experience) would be very difficult for me to do, since it's been a big part of my life for the last decade or so. I still love the game and especially to be in Arco to cheer on my team.

So think about it, especially those that think "what's a measly grand or two on top of 10 grand".

The line for me has been reached. It happens and it's here. And I have 3 weeks to make up my mind.

Petrie can see the job ahead

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