Petrie can see the job ahead

whozit · Jun 4, 2005

VF21 said:

The moves made for financial reasons prior to this trade was not for the better of the team. They cost much more than the few dollars saved. The Webber trade even if appearing bad could have been much worse otherwise. I agree, don't know.

Since you started your post with finances, might use an appropriate financial analogy for the outlook/feeling for next year. It is much easier to adopt ones standard of living to increased income than it is to downsize due to budget constraints. Exchange expectations for income and you have the same thing. It was easy and wonderful for expectations to grow as the team improved. It was even tolerable as the team reached a plateau and hope remained. It is unpleasant now because the team has slipped and it will be difficult to even get near to how close the team once was.

As far as being more concerned now than ever before, when all you can do is go up there isn't much reason to be concerned. The team now is now in a position it can stabalize and start reclimbing or it could continue slipping. There is plenty of reason to be concerned.

VF21 · Jun 4, 2005

You're right, whozit, but there's more to it than just whether or not the team improves, declines or stays the same. For me, at least, it's a matter of the very soul of the team, the identity, the things that have made the Kings different than any other franchise.

There was a magical feeling that you felt even if you couldn't define it. That feeling is gone now. I can only hope and pray that it returns...

SacTownKid · Jun 4, 2005

Here is the thing. Bibby, Peja, and Miller are all in their prime now. Petrie knows he can't wait 2-3 years to put together a championship team. He has to do it now, so I think that by as early as next season we will have a contender on the floor. Yes, even with Bibby, Peja, and Miller at the helm.

SacTownKid · Jun 4, 2005

VF21 said:

What elite team??

chelle · Jun 4, 2005

I agree with many of you that the uncertainty of everything is the biggest concern right now. When we were bad, we were awful and we knew it but we still loved our team. When we were good, we were VERY good and many people loved our team.
Now, we don't really know what we are. Depending on MANY factors we could be VERY GOOD again next season or VERY bad. We just don't know and that is where the trouble begins. In general, we never had to be convinced to be fans. Even many of us die hard fans are struggling to remain optimistic. We want to love our team. We just don't know what our team is exactly. Are we a once good team on the way down or are we a good team that is coming off of a bad season and will be back in our glory next year?
I know that I keep forgetting that we had an amazing season, all things considered. Not many teams can win as many games as we did even if they had few injuries and no mid season trades, unlike us. The problem is a good season is no longer enough.
I also hate to admit that I did not enjoy the season as much as I did even when we did not win nearly as many games.The song "The Trill is Gone," comes to mind when I think of our team right now. Let's hope that Petrie can "Bring Back That Loving Feeling!"

K-Town King · Jun 4, 2005

Petrie is a smart man. He knows that with this team they have to compete know. I think that Petrie will do some kind of move this offseason I just don't know what. I hope Petrie can pull off a sign and trade with Cuttino so that we just don't lose him for nothing. I wouldn't care if we lost him for nothing but I'd rather get something back. I think Peja will have a better year next year because he's going to work on his game this summer. Last summer he didn't even pick up a basketball the whole time and he suffered because of that. I don't think that will happen again.

thesanityannex · Jun 4, 2005

VF21 said:

an elite team that never won. time to change. i watched the kings when they sucked, i am faithful and will watch them still if they suck.

VF21 · Jun 4, 2005

Are you trying to say I'm not faithful?

thesanityannex · Jun 4, 2005

not one bit, you've been a fan for 20 years right? you stated that you didn't know if you could take it anymore. a fan of 20 years obviously watched some sucky kings ball, so what would be the difference now? AND NO, THEY WILL NOT SUCK NEXT YEAR. maybe i am the only one who is more excited than worried about next year. that could also be because i am from L.A. and don't attend games at ARCO though. Anyways, this is just the OFFSEASON. if they do in fact suck next year, we can deal with it then, why now?

kingkung · Jun 4, 2005

VF21 said:

From a third person's perspective, he didn't say anything of the sort.

VF21 · Jun 4, 2005

I NEVER said I didn't know if I could take it any more... I'm being honest in expressing more concern about the future of this team than I've ever felt before - and I'm not alone. The fact you're not in this area could have a lot to do with it. If you've never attended a game at Arco, you have truly missed an experience you would remember all your life.

Please re-read my comments. What I'm saying is that I am fearful that everything that made the Kings so unique and so special might be coming to a close. I fear that because I do not want the Kings to become just another sports franchise. They've been so much more than that...

There are a myriad of questions right now about the team, up to and including whether or not they can get a new arena.

You can bury your head in the sand and act as though there's nothing wrong and say "we can deal with it later," but there's a real danger in doing that. What if later turns out to be too late?

It isn't about 'sucky Kings ball.' That, actually, is the least of my worries.

thesanityannex · Jun 4, 2005

chelle said:

I agree completely with statement 1. We could be VERY GOOD or very bad, we will have to wait. And if a bad season is 50 wins and a playoff birth, then I think many, many teams would take our bad season. 2.We've become spoiled as Kings fans because of how good they have been over the last years, but now is the time for rebuilding. All teams must do it sometime and that time is now ours.

thesanityannex · Jun 4, 2005

VF21 said:

sorry, should have gone back and used the quote, this is what i was referring to.

love_them_kings · Jun 4, 2005

VF21 said:

I agree. I haven't stopped watching Kings games or stopped loving them since the big trades this season, but my feelings aren't nearly as strong as they were this time last season. I've been through many ups and downs and heartbreaks with the Kings, but this year is the first year that my team spirit has not recovered completely.

Webb and Christie weren't just two talented players, they were the two most passionate players on the team. Combine that with losing Vlade, and this team isn't just less talented then it was a year ago, it also is lacking some of it's heart. I love the players we have now, but it just isn't the same chemistry out there that was there last year.

Overall, fan support is showing the effects of these changes big time. And, yes, I know the waiting list is thousands of people long (I'm on it), but I've also talked to a lot of season ticket holders who haven't gone to as many games this year because they just don't quite care enough.

Can Petrie turn this around? You bet, it can't be any harder than building an elite team out of what he started with, but I don't know how much time it will take. And while I hope and believe that the Kings of the future will go on to win a championship, I know I could never love them any more than I did the Kings that have taken us on the wild ride that ended this season.

thesanityannex · Jun 4, 2005

VF21 said:

I'm not in the area now. I attended Chico State for Two years and had season tickets both years so I've been to games, and I will never forget them. The only games you'll see me at now are the ones where I'm at Staples center booing the lakers while the Kings whoop on them. Clippers/Kings too, but there are more Kings fans at Staples during those games.

VF21 · Jun 4, 2005

thesanityannex said:

50 wins and a playoff berth is not going to do it for a lot of the season ticket holders who are facing, once again, a rise in ticket prices. 50 wins and a playoff berth aren't necessarily going to do it for the Maloofs. They've had the 50+ wins and playoff berths for several years now. It's not about whether other teams would take our "bad season."

If we're rebuilding, we're in a real world of hurt. Our committed salaries would choke a Clydesdale and we have very little to offer in trade to change that.

If you've become spoiled as a Kings fan, that's on you. A lot of us aren't spoiled; we have been trying for a long time to tell people to enjoy the good times while they last because they won't last forever. Now, some of us think the good times may be gone for a while and we're saying so. Do you honestly think we're HOPING that's the case? No way! We would love to be wrong but the handwriting looks pretty clear at this point. It all depends on what Petrie is able to do in the off-season.

We'll just have to agree to disagree for now - and keep our fingers crossed that it all ends up just fine in November.

thesanityannex · Jun 4, 2005

love_them_kings said:

Could that be because they were thrown together mid-season? After the trades went down, so did expectations, on my part at least.

thesanityannex · Jun 4, 2005

VF21 said:

Actually we agree. My whole point, though cluttered with all the random stuff that scurries about my brain, and out through my fingers, which type....................is that it all depends on what PETRIE does in the off-season, so lets not stress until we see what he does.

VF21 · Jun 4, 2005

love_them_kings said:

There are season ticket holders I know who are either opting out completely OR trying to shift their lower level seats for upper seats. There were games towards the end of the season this year that came very close to not being sell-outs.

Is it terminal? Who knows? If the team comes out in November with the spirit, heart, excitement, etc. that most of us truly love, all could be fine. If the team comes out with a lack of commitment or focus that we saw at times this season, people are REALLY going to start questioning just how much money they're willing to spend to see a team that just doesn't do it for them...

I want, more than anything else in the world, to have this all turn out well. There's been so much turmoil and chaos lately that it seems you're always waiting for the other shoe to drop...

About the chemistry?

The chemistry suffered when Vlade left. It took another body blow when Doug was traded and IMHO it was dealt a death blow, at least for this season, when Webber was shipped off pretty much in the middle of the night. You can't FORCE chemistry. It's either there or it's not.

One thing we have to find is what I've called The Warrior King. The leader. The guy who will put it all out there on the court every night, and through will-power and example, get his team-mates to follow him.

VF21 · Jun 4, 2005

thesanityannex said:

I said "follow them with the same enthusiasm"... I didn't say nor did I mean to even imply I would quit being a fan. It's just hard to get really excited about a team if they aren't excited about playing or don't bring the spirit and heart to the game that makes it more than just another game...

chelle · Jun 4, 2005

thesanityannex said:

I think I would rather stress now. Once the decisions have been made, my "fan through thick and thin" mentality sets in. When the season begins, I find it very hard to be objective or realistic about our chances. As soon as preseason starts, I will be thinking, "We are going all the way this year!" This happens no matter who we have on the court. I do it every year even if it is totally unrealisitic. When that ball is tossed up for the first tip, I think that we have the best players on the floor at every position. Only in the heat of the moment in complete frustration will I say bad things about them. I will never claim to be an objective fan during the season. I have to be realistic during the off season. Therefore, I have to stress now.

VF21 · Jun 4, 2005

thesanityannex said:

This is a Kings fan message board.

It's the off-season.

If we can't stress here about our fears and trepidations, where can we?

*WINK*

thesanityannex · Jun 4, 2005

VF21 said:

Do you honestly think the players were not excited about playing and did not play with heart. We must have been watching different games this season. Not once did I see this team give up and call it quits, even after all that happened throughout the season, and they did this without complaints or excuses. That is showing heart.

thesanityannex · Jun 4, 2005

VF21 said:

A psychiatrist's office. "wink"
just trying to ease some pain.

VF21 · Jun 4, 2005

thesanityannex said:

What I saw after the Webber trade was a team without a leader, a team that had suddenly become just players...not a cohesive unit like it had been. I saw guys stepping up and doing better than their best, but without the joy of playing that has been a premiere component of the Kings in recent years. In the comment of mine you quoted above, I wasn't talking about this season. What I was saying is that if the worst case scenario in my mind comes to pass that I won't find it as enjoyable to watch a team if they don't play with spirit and heart.

You have your opinion and I have mine. Neither of us is going to change the other's mind so please - let's just leave it at that.

thesanityannex · Jun 4, 2005

I was under the impression you were talking of last years team, which i think we both would agree.......had heart. I did not know you were talking of the future team, and if so, disregard my comment. IMHO, Bibby showed tons of heart and determination after seeing his team disassembled. To add to that, Bibby and Mo are the only ones I care about seeing return, but that is another thread.

thesanityannex · Jun 4, 2005

props to the new avatar............how can i get it bigger, i resized and its so SMALL.

albeitrue · Jun 4, 2005

Wow, great thread, hard to add anything new, for sure!

Imo losing Vlade made the biggest impact last year, his lockerroom leadership skills were sorely missed. Next came Doug's departure, another brutal blow to team moral. When Web was dealt, all holes became unplugged and now the team truly has no real leader on the floor. Bibby only took on that role out of obligation, he is not a leader-type. Cat was not with the ballclub long enough to warrant that position, though I felt he fought for it.

So we were left with four newbies, five if you count Tag and six if you count the contributing factor of Evans. The loss of the three could still be felt until the very end of the season, each one was VITAL to Kings for four years running. Tough tools to work with, these newbies and the loss of our three friends and Kings players. Even though I was never a Web supporter, we felt his loss much in the PO's. It just wasn't the same.

Now the talk of Adelman being replaced is becoming the last straw for some, I suspect. But isn't change inevitable if Kings want to be competitive? Look at the Jazz, HOF players, great leadership, coaching, lots of years as ordinary contenders, one Finals appearance ... well, you know the rest.

We are powerless as fans, we can only wait and hope for better results tomorrow, competitively speaking.

This team has a lot of gold. We are, by far, better than mediocre with what we have in the "core 3" and a couple of acquisitions could definitely make us contenders again. I don't begrudge Petrie making these deals this last year. We could not have contended this year with what we had, it was time to let it go. I believe he, along with the Maloof's, are committed to putting a great team on the floor and maintaining (and continuing to create) a great fan base.

Admitedly, I've only been a fan since 1999 but Kings basketball has brought me a lot of happiness and excitement, I look forward to six more years. Then six more, etc. They may not all be exciting years, but neither am I exciting all the time and so far my husband hasn't divorced me.

VF21 · Jun 4, 2005

Change is indeed inevitable but how one goes about effecting those changes speaks volumes. Raising ticket prices AGAIN, trading Webber right after the season ticket holders had to pay for their playoff tickets, having one of the Maloofs talk to Phil Jackson's people while Petrie was undergoing surgery - those are just some of the things a lot of us have a bit of a problem understanding.

Yes, this may all be a tempest in a teapot. I certainly hope so. For the moment, however, I have to wonder exactly what it is they're trying to accomplish. IMHO it's starting to look more and more like just another NBA franchise - and that's not what the Sacramento Kings have been about...ever. It's felt like family ... and right now it doesn't feel that way at alll.

I hope more than anything that I'm wrong and that Petrie will do that magic and by the start of training camp we'll all be excited and looking forward to the new season.

As far as Adelman's successor goes, I expect a new coach within the next year or so. It's been a long successful era with Adelman but without a title it's inevitable that he eventually be replaced. I just want to see them bring in a coach that respects our team, our city and the fans... and I can only think of ONE right now that doesn't fit that mold.

The early years may not have been winning years but it didn't matter. They were good years and we fans felt like we were a part of it. Now, unfortunately, more and more fans are starting to feel alienated. You can sense it at games; you can read it on the various message boards; you can see it in the difficulty people have in getting rid of their tickets - even at face value. That NEVER used to be a problem.

Like I've said, I hope to God I'm wrong, that I'm over-reacting and that everything will be just as good as ever come November. In all honesty, however, I'm not holding my breath.

albeitrue · Jun 4, 2005

VF21 said:

I don't think you are over-reacting, but neither do I think everything will be just as good come November. It's the great unknown that is frustrating; understanding that with the trading of Doug and Webber, and the talk of replacing Adelman ANYTHING can happen and we can do absolutely nothing about it. NOTHING! This is where my 12 step program always comes in handy...

The fanbase IS questioning all these moves and are concerned, but it has nothing to do with ticket prices, that's just business. I hope the Maloof's are sensitive to it, though as someone else has said they have a HUGE cushion presently. They undoubtedly understand their cushion is not eternal, and will right that ship in some way. I trust their business sense.

It was my understanding that Maloof's spoke to Petrie before they contacted Phil's agent: (I know, it's Voisin. Could she have lied, I dunno)

"After speaking with Petrie on Thursday, Joe Maloof contacted Jackson's agent, Todd Musburger."
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/basketball/kings/story/12846009p-13695631c.html

You think Petrie made 'the trade' after season ticket holders paid their last installment, but I disagree, because that would imply that there was a suitor(s) for the trade waiting in the wing, and I doubt that could be true. Of course that could just be my bias that Webbers contract was near impossible to trade. Just sounds like a conspiracy-theory stretch to me.

I hated to see a) Vlade be turned away for a couple of million (and subsequently sign Tag for twice as much), b) Doug thoughtlessly traded for ... well, it didn't matter who, they weren't as necessary as Doug in my estimation and c) Web have to play Kings his very first game as a 6er. Those all broke my heart just a little, and quite obviously widdled away the trust of many fans. I would have liked to see those three stay and retire as Kings, even Webber (if it weren't for his contract, but I'm not going to argue it) and just play in a diminished role. What we gained in Doug's contract $$$ we will lose with Cat's departure, sad. At the end of the day, Vlade would probably have chosen to remain a King less the 2.4 mil, and it goes without saying the effect the Doug & Web trades had on them.

I wish I could speak to the coaching question, but I just don't know who's out there. Glitz has never appealed to me, but Phil Jackson does. Will he come here? Naw...we got worked over. It will be interesting to see where the next coach comes from, and I for one am all for it. Adelman has been as much a part of the Kings as Arco has, and now even ARCO's future is in question.

Should prove to be an interesting year for the Kings organization. Like someone else has said, I am looking forward to see how it all plays out.

Petrie can see the job ahead

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