Petrie can see the job ahead

[ForlornKing]

I think Petrie has a master plan, that we know nothing about.

Trading Doug Christie for Mobley is IMO an example. Trade Christie for Mobley, who has been with a lot of teams, and moves a lot, and is talented, that makes good trade-bat. I believe Petrie will S&T Mobley, for someone who he knows will help the team. Petrie is too smart of a guy to be making stupid trades.

 

[Team Dime]

I agree that the old style of Kings basketball that we all loved so much is gone. I loved that the Kings played such great team basketball instead of the selfish one on one ball we seem on so many other teams. However, that Kings team had run it's course. They had their chances and gave us plenty of thrills and memories along the way. That same great passing team that was so fun to watch on the offensive end was also incredibly painful to watch on the defensive end. One of the most promising things I've heard the Maloofs say this offseason was that the Kings must become a defensive minded team; citing the fact that you can't win playoff games giving up 122 points at home. The Maloofs also admitted that they errored in focusing too much on offense in spite of defense in regards to the previous "contending" Kings teams. I find this as some very positive signs. Yes, the new Kings team may not be as fun to watch, but if they can become a good team defensively as well as evolve into a contender I think everything will be fine. Winning cures all and to become a championship team you have to be a strong defensive along with be a very good rebounding team (see the Spurs/Suns series).

Letting go of Vlade, Doug, and Chris wasn't easy but it had to be done. It just isn't good business sense to pay Vlade $5 million a season at this point. Plus, look at what happened (he got hurt, missing most of the season). Doug was also getting old and had lost a step defensively. He was playing hurt for a long time (once he went to the Magic he decided it simply wasn't worth playing through it anymore). Doug's contract needed to be moved. Yes, the financial reasons were a very big part of the Webber trade. I don't think it'd be a wise move at all to keep Webb around for another 3 years at $62 million given his current health. I'm a big Webber fan too, but the odds are that it's only going to get worse for Webber (especially with the way he labors just getting up and down the court). I honestly believe it was at a point where the Kings had to take the best possible offer they could get at the time, that the possible package they could get for Webber and his huge contract would only get worse the longer they waited (if they could even make a deal at all). It was a trade that had to be made sooner rather than later. I believe it was Kriedler who said Billy King would be fired in about a year after the Webber trade.

Finally, I believe in Petrie. Yes, this is the most amount of uncertainty around here in a long time, but this is the same guy who turned the Kings into contenders basically from scratch. Petrie will find a way to get it done again. I think he's had a master plan all along as soon as Doug was traded, maybe even before that. Petrie isn't one of the most respected executives in the league by accident.

 

[ForlornKing]

I agree that the old style of Kings basketball that we all loved so much is gone. I loved that the Kings played such great team basketball instead of the selfish one on one ball we seem on so many other teams. However, that Kings team had run it's course. They had their chances and gave us plenty of thrills and memories along the way. That same great passing team that was so fun to watch on the offensive end was also incredibly painful to watch on the defensiveend. One of the most promising things I've heard the Maloofs say this offseason was that the Kings must become a defensive minded team; citing the fact that you can't win playoff games giving up 122 points at home. The Maloofs also admitted that they errored in focusing too much on offense in spite of defense in regards to the previous "contending" Kings teams. I find this as some very positive signs. Yes, the new Kings team may not be as fun to watch, but if they can become a good team defensively as well as evolve into a contender I think everything will be fine. Winning cures all and to become a championship team you have to be a strong defensive along with be a very good rebounding team (see the Spurs/Suns series).

Letting go of Vlade, Doug, and Chris wasn't easy but it had to be done. It just isn't good business sense to pay Vlade $5 million a season at this point. Plus, look at what happened (he got hurt, missing most of the season). Doug was also getting old and had lost a step defensively. He was playing hurt for a long time (once he went to the Magic he decided it simply wasn't worth playing through it anymore). Doug's contract needed to be moved. Yes, the financial reasons were a very big part of the Webber trade. I don't think it'd be a wise move at all to keep Webb around for another 3 years at $62 million given his current health. I'm a big Webber fan too, but the odds are that it's only going to get worse for Webber (especially with the way he labors just getting up and down the court). I honestly believe it was at a point where the Kings had to take the best possible offer they could get at the time, that the possible package they could get for Webber and his huge contract would only get worse the longer they waited (if they could even make a deal at all). It was a trade that had to be made sooner rather than later. I believe it was Kriedler who said Billy King would be fired in about a year after the Webber trade.

Finally, I believe in Petrie. Yes, this is the most amount of uncertainty around here in a long time, but this is the same guy who turned the Kings into contenders basically from scratch. Petrie will find a way to get it done again. I think he's had a master plan all along as soon as Doug was traded, maybe even before that. Petrie isn't one of the most respected executives in the league by accident.

great post.

 

[VF21]

I think Petrie has a master plan, that we know nothing about.

Trading Doug Christie for Mobley is IMO an example. Trade Christie for Mobley, who has been with a lot of teams, and moves a lot, and is talented, that makes good trade-bat. I believe Petrie will S&T Mobley, for someone who he knows will help the team. Petrie is too smart of a guy to be making stupid trades.

CUTTINO OPTED OUT! The ONLY way we can sign and trade him is if he agrees to it. And why would he? He's a free agent now and can deal directly with teams without having to go through a trade.

I'm really interested in hearing a logical scenario whereby Cuttino Mobley would benefit by signing with the Kings to do us a favor so we can trade him elsewhere.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I'm really interested in hearing a logical scenario whereby Cuttino Mobley would benefit by signing with the Kings to do us a favor so we can trade him elsewhere.

It's not any different than how we got Brad Miller. If Cat wants to go to a team over the cap, that is willing to pay him $8 million or whatever, he signs with us because we can sign a returning free agent for more than what cap room we have left, then we trade him to the team that wants him.

 

[VF21]

Thank you... I'm thinking it's not gonna happen, but at least you cleared up how it COULD.

 

[Greg Ostertag]

It's not any different than how we got Brad Miller. If Cat wants to go to a team over the cap, that is willing to pay him $8 million or whatever, he signs with us because we can sign a returning free agent for more than what cap room we have left, then we trade him to the team that wants him.

This is true, but look at what the Pacers got in return. Scot Pollard and Danny Ferry (who I believe retired or got cut). We won't get equal value IMO unless other players are involved. We may if we could deal him to a team that has a player who is unhappy or something or is victim of depth (ala the S&T involving Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington last year which was pretty fair). But usually teams don't get fair value in return. We may be able to squeeze a pick (+ a contract) or something out of him.

 

[LPKingsFan]

This is true, but look at what the Pacers got in return. Scot Pollard and Danny Ferry (who I believe retired or got cut). We won't get equal value IMO unless other players are involved. We may if we could deal him to a team that has a player who is unhappy or something or is victim of depth (ala the S&T involving Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington last year which was pretty fair). But usually teams don't get fair value in return. We may be able to squeeze a pick (+ a contract) or something out of him.

Indy could have kept Hedo, but for some reason thought Danny Ferry's expiring contract was more attractive (I guess they got Stephen Jackson a year later anyways).

But you're right, and sign and trades on both sides (ie the proposed Mobley for Hughes fantasies) are even more rare.

 

[whozit]

Mobley's expense

Yes, the Kings might be "forced" to let him walk and get nothing in return. That nothing may be something depending on how you want to look at it. I would like anyone to show me an indication that the Maloofs are going to open the bank book up by any substantial amount. That money that is walking off the table might open the doors to allow Petrie to use the trade exceptions and mid-level in return. The Kings according to RealGM have four trade exceptions worth slightly more than 5 million. They can be combined allowing a trade of a 5 million dollar player for a 10 million one. Those exceptions are worthless if the owners aren't willing to absorb the extra salary and his walking may be the key to using those exceptions.

 

[Kingsgurl]

You think Petrie made 'the trade' after season ticket holders paid their last installment, but I disagree, because that would imply that there was a suitor(s) for the trade waiting in the wing, and I doubt that could be true. Of course that could just be my bias that Webbers contract was near impossible to trade. Just sounds like a conspiracy-theory stretch to me.

Nothing to do with 'conspiracy'. Fact is, the trade DID go down right after the season ticket holders had to pony up the play off dough. For those of you who don't know, season ticket holders wishing to purchase their seats for the play offs pay the whole play off scenario in two installments about 3 weeks apart (you pay for each ticket in a scenario that includes the Kings having home court throughout and each series going 7 games, in other words, 16 games. The play off prices are higher than the regular season prices, going up exponentially with each round) So, a person who sits mid lower level and forks out $6000 dollars or so to see one team in the play offs, with certain expectations, might be a bit upset about the timing of the whole deal. Not to say the timing was intentional, just bad.

 

[SacTownKid]

CUTTINO OPTED OUT! The ONLY way we can sign and trade him is if he agrees to it. And why would he? He's a free agent now and can deal directly with teams without having to go through a trade.

I'm really interested in hearing a logical scenario whereby Cuttino Mobley would benefit by signing with the Kings to do us a favor so we can trade him elsewhere.

As long as Cat gets a contract he wants I am sure he would have no problems signing with the Kings to be traded away. It does happen all the time after all. I look at the list of teams that could use him, or reportedly want him, and most of them don't/won't have the cap space to sign him outright.

 

[Warhawk]

Nothing to do with 'conspiracy'. Fact is, the trade DID go down right after the season ticket holders had to pony up the play off dough. For those of you who don't know, season ticket holders wishing to purchase their seats for the play offs pay the whole play off scenario in two installments about 3 weeks apart (you pay for each ticket in a scenario that includes the Kings having home court throughout and each series going 7 games, in other words, 16 games. The play off prices are higher than the regular season prices, going up exponentially with each round) So, a person who sits mid lower level and forks out $6000 dollars or so to see one team in the play offs, with certain expectations, might be a bit upset about the timing of the whole deal. Not to say the timing was intentional, just bad.

True, and I do not think it was intentional. It was only what, 2 days before the trade deadline when the deal went down? I think it was one of the few (and probably the best) offer Petrie got and he took itwhen it came. The proximity to the playoff ticket payment dates was probably purely coincidental. I think Philly was panicking about their play and team makeup and thought Webber just might fit....

 

[Kingsgurl]

Actually, it was mere hours before the trade deadline. On the bright side, it made for a heck of a play off refund for a lot of people.

 

[albeitrue]

Nothing to do with 'conspiracy'. Fact is, the trade DID go down right after the season ticket holders had to pony up the play off dough. For those of you who don't know, season ticket holders wishing to purchase their seats for the play offs pay the whole play off scenario in two installments about 3 weeks apart (you pay for each ticket in a scenario that includes the Kings having home court throughout and each series going 7 games, in other words, 16 games. The play off prices are higher than the regular season prices, going up exponentially with each round) So, a person who sits mid lower level and forks out $6000 dollars or so to see one team in the play offs, with certain expectations, might be a bit upset about the timing of the whole deal. Not to say the timing was intentional, just bad.

Thanks for clearing that up KG.

 

[ParniValjak]

CUTTINO OPTED OUT! The ONLY way we can sign and trade him is if he agrees to it. And why would he? He's a free agent now and can deal directly with teams without having to go through a trade.

I'm really interested in hearing a logical scenario whereby Cuttino Mobley would benefit by signing with the Kings to do us a favor so we can trade him elsewhere.

Why would he??????

Because he might want to go to a team thats a contender and doesn't have much space in the salary cap. Cat will get more than MLE and contenders generally don't have that much in a cap space.

 

[Team Dime]

Nothing to do with 'conspiracy'. Fact is, the trade DID go down right after the season ticket holders had to pony up the play off dough. For those of you who don't know, season ticket holders wishing to purchase their seats for the play offs pay the whole play off scenario in two installments about 3 weeks apart (you pay for each ticket in a scenario that includes the Kings having home court throughout and each series going 7 games, in other words, 16 games. The play off prices are higher than the regular season prices, going up exponentially with each round) So, a person who sits mid lower level and forks out $6000 dollars or so to see one team in the play offs, with certain expectations, might be a bit upset about the timing of the whole deal. Not to say the timing was intentional, just bad.

That's pro sports. Maybe some Kings fans need a reminder like that to show them that yes this is still a business. What were the Kings supposed to do? Suck it up and eat Webber's contract ($62 million for the next 3 years) as the team is unable to improve by getting other younger, promising players since they are still committed to Webber's contract? What would some fans rather have: have the Kings keep Webber for all of 2005 while the team gets even less in return for him over the summer (or possibly isn't able to trade him at all) while the team falls into the lottery for the next 5 years or have the Kings make the tough trade just like they did this past year with the team remaining competitive with the hopes that Petrie can pull off some magic this summer to quickly turn the team into a contender?

 

[Kingsgurl]

Myself, personally, I'd rather have a team that was at least competitive, which we did NOT have in the play offs this year.

I'm well aware the NBA is a business, thanks though. The two scenarios aren't the only ones out there, either. Perhaps, had Webber continued to put up triple doubles, the team would have gotten much MORE for him than they did. Hard to see them getting LESS.

 

[whozit]

As long as Cat gets a contract he wants I am sure he would have no problems signing with the Kings to be traded away. It does happen all the time after all. I look at the list of teams that could use him, or reportedly want him, and most of them don't/won't have the cap space to sign him outright.

At least two things have to happen for a sign and trade to happen. The first is the player must be willing to do it. Under your scenerio that happens. Second, the other team (the Kings) must be willing to accept what the first team is offering. Of these teams that are wanting him or could use him, who do you suppose they will offer in return? Do we then want what the other team is offering?

I would be interested in what exchanges you imagine could realistically happen?

 

[Bricklayer]

At least two things have to happen for a sign and trade to happen. The first is the player must be willing to do it. Under your scenerio that happens. Second, the other team (the Kings) must be willing to accept what the first team is offering. Of these teams that are wanting him or could use him, who do you suppose they will offer in return? Do we then want what the other team is offering?

I would be interested in what exchanges you imagine could realistically happen?

I think that's the problem with Cat -- obviously if a team does a sign and trade they are only going to be willing to do it if they think they get signifigantly better in the deal. And I say significantly, because there are lots of free agents, and they can sign a guy for "free" (as in not giving up any players in return) for the MLE. So in order to make it worth their while they have to figure they would rather have Cat while losing the guys they trade for him in the sign and trade, than have the MLE player while keeping those other players. So while Cat's a good player, in a sign and trade it seems doubtful that another team would be williing to give equal value or very close in return to get a guy of his caliber. Best hope for us to get value is by finding a team unbalanced with too many frontcourt players, and in need of backcourt help (i.e. Denver or Utah).

 

[whozit]

Mobley

Brick,

The two teams you mentioned, Utah and Denver are doubtful.

Denver has eight players under contract (2 have options on them) and are around 10 million under the salary cap. The three players that some combination might be in the price range are Nene, Lenard and Najera. If you are Denver do you exchange any two of those to acquire Mobley?

Utah has nine players under contract and are slightly above the salary cap. The players in the right price range is Okur by himself (might be a possibility) or Harpring and Girecek combined. The last two are ending contracts making them valuable for other uses. Other than Okur, would you exchange ending contracts with their value for Mobley?

The difficulty is if the one team would the other team involved probably would not. (other than Okur but then why would cat want to go to Utah?)

 

[whozit]

Mobley

There is a possibility that Mobley is not looking for as large a yearly contract that has been reported. He may be more interested in a multi-year deal that nets more than his remaining year from the Kings would have, say 3 years starting around 5 or 6 million. That could put a whole lot more options on the table.

 

[Team Dime]

Myself, personally, I'd rather have a team that was at least competitive, which we did NOT have in the play offs this year.

I'm well aware the NBA is a business, thanks though. The two scenarios aren't the only ones out there, either. Perhaps, had Webber continued to put up triple doubles, the team would have gotten much MORE for him than they did. Hard to see them getting LESS.

Ideally maybe the Kings could've gotten more for Webber had he continued to play so well putting up triple doubles. However, let's not forget the major reason he was traded in the first place: the uncertainty of his knee and his huge contract. It would've been extremely risky to keep Webber longer since he could get hurt at anytime playing on that fragile knee. The Kings felt they were playing with fire given his injury and his contract, they felt they were better off making a deal when he was healthy before something bad happened.

 

[Bricklayer]

Denver would likely do the Najera/Lenard move, but that's the level of junk we must avoid. Just more junk to add to a team full of random parts.

As for Nene -- depends on how high they are on him. The reality is they are going to lose him in a year anyway unless they clear a starting spot for him, so they might actually be willing to inclue him in a trade for a starting SG who can space the floor.

As for Utah, I agree the problem wiuld be why would he want to go there? The answer would have to be money. Okur would actually be a good fit here and Sloan was NOT high on him so there might even be a chance, but he and Brad together are just impossibly bad athletically. Would love to have Harpring too, and apparently there was an issue there with there not being room for him an Kirilenko together -- I'd cheerfully trade Cat for Harpring's touoghness, and I think it might add balance to Utah too (of course losing Sloan's preferred toughness). But again, we'd have to talk Cat into it. A little closer to home in Texas I guess.

BTW, Cat is 30, realistically there is no way he's going to take less money on what is likely going to be his last big contract. Now how much he can get is another question, but he should get a nice deal as somebody's starter. Of the top off-guards out there, he may be the only one really available (Redd, Allen, Johnson, Hughes).

 

[SactoGreg]

Ideally maybe the Kings could've gotten more for Webber had he continued to play so well putting up triple doubles. However, let's not forget the major reason he was traded in the first place: the uncertainty of his knee and his huge contract. It would've been extremely risky to keep Webber longer since he could get hurt at anytime playing on that fragile knee. The Kings felt they were playing with fire given his injury and his contract, they felt they were better off making a deal when he was healthy before something bad happened.

Everyone knows why the Kings made the trade.

And when you peel back the onion, that is exactly what makes it hard to stomach as a Kings fan: Throwing in the towel.

Basically, they did the deal to dump Webber's contract, while sacrificing the season along the way. And if you really believe this team was better as a result of the in-season trades, well, I hope you're excited about the Pistons/Heat game 7 tonight.

Sure it's a business, but you have to offer a product your customers are willing to buy. And as far as I'm concerned, the Maloofs and Petrie lost a lot of customers hopes as a result of their collective decision...

 

[whozit]

Point - counter point.

You might be right about the available OGs in the market this year. On the other hand, I'm not sure that the teams with the cap room have a 30 year old player on top of their list of needs.

Got any old pictures to make him want to go to Utah?

I like your counter points on Denver but I would be sure that they could get more out of Nene himself besides having to throw something else in also to make it work.

 

[whozit]

Sure it's a business, but you have to offer a product your customers are willing to buy. And as far as I'm concerned, the Maloofs and Petrie lost a lot of customers hopes as a result of their collective decision...

That is a big reason that this is such an important off-season. They overpaid for players initially to gain credibility in the league, now they need to prove to the fans that they are serious about winning. Actions speak louder than words and their actions have undermined their credibility. Whether or not that loss of credibility is warranted doesn't alter the notion that it has been lost or at least damaged.

 

[Bricklayer]

30 is not a bad age for a playoff team looking for a vet still in his prime to help them take that next step. And probably in most cases that would be the sort of team involved ina sign and trade anyway -- a lot of the crap teams already have cap room, and I sincerely doubt Cat would be so interested in going to a bad team he'd sign and trade to get there anyway (again, unless the money was right).

I've been meaning to check on the sign and trade rules -- can other things be included with the signed and traded player? Or does he have to go alone? Would certainoly be helpful to be able to throw in a little sweetener if we get the opportunity. What I do NOT want is a replay of the Webb/Doug trades where we just took back whatever we could get and threw it out on the court hoping it would work.

 

[thesanityannex]

CUTTINO OPTED OUT! The ONLY way we can sign and trade him is if he agrees to it. And why would he? He's a free agent now and can deal directly with teams without having to go through a trade.

I'm really interested in hearing a logical scenario whereby Cuttino Mobley would benefit by signing with the Kings to do us a favor so we can trade him elsewhere.

maybe cuttino is a really nice person. "wink-wink"

 

[thesanityannex]

Myself, personally, I'd rather have a team that was at least competitive, which we did NOT have in the play offs this year.

I'm well aware the NBA is a business, thanks though. The two scenarios aren't the only ones out there, either. Perhaps, had Webber continued to put up triple doubles, the team would have gotten much MORE for him than they did. Hard to see them getting LESS.

IMHO, even with Webber, the Kings still make a first round exit. They might have won 1 more game though. Webber would have been dominated inside by the thug combo. Even if they get out of the first round, they get squashed in the second round. So, IMO, getting rid of Webb/Webb contract now and ducking out of the playoffs, seems better than losing the second round and still having Webber and his SMALL contract.

 

[whozit]

I've been meaning to check on the sign and trade rules -- can other things be included with the signed and traded player? Or does he have to go alone? Would certainoly be helpful to be able to throw in a little sweetener if we get the opportunity

Weren't there all sorts of things in the Miller trade? Are you talking a sweetner for the Kings or the other team? And I agree, if a S & T happens, I don't want refuge back.

As I posted earlier, I would not be surprised if they just let him walk. There are trade exceptions that could be better used, along with the mid-level. If they do a S & T it might mean that those trade exceptions are allowed to expire as has been recent history. I sadly just don't see the team picking up and absorbing a lot more salary.