Petrie can see the job ahead
- Thread starter Rockmeister
- Start date
I KNOW for a fact I've mentioned this before, but because you tend to selectively decide what to read and what to ignore, I'll state it again:
There are a myriad of people on the waiting list who are currently season ticket holders with lower level tickets. They are WAITING for upper level tickets to open up. You can't just opt to switch your tickets because ... please note ... THERE'S A WAITING LIST FOR SEASON TICKETS! There are only so many spots allocated to season tickets.
You're the one who kept talking about how you wouldn't think much of only having to pay $1,500 more. People have been trying to explain their rationale to you. I see now it's obviously an exercise in futility. Instead of arguing about a situation you'll never be in, why not allow those of us who are actually wrestling with the decision to make their comments?
There are a myriad of people on the waiting list who are currently season ticket holders with lower level tickets. They are WAITING for upper level tickets to open up. You can't just opt to switch your tickets because ... please note ... THERE'S A WAITING LIST FOR SEASON TICKETS! There are only so many spots allocated to season tickets.
You're the one who kept talking about how you wouldn't think much of only having to pay $1,500 more. People have been trying to explain their rationale to you. I see now it's obviously an exercise in futility. Instead of arguing about a situation you'll never be in, why not allow those of us who are actually wrestling with the decision to make their comments?
I don't get. What is this depth for if not to carry us while we're hurt? Is that not what depth is for. If not, than what is the point of depth? Is it only valuable in name? The Kings have "depth", YEAH!!! If we have depth, I didn't see it on the court, at least not when it mattered. I wanna blame Adelman, but he can only keep 2 of those guys on the floor, and Skinner and Corliss, I don't see how they could've changed what happened.
Thanks, 1kingzfan... I think you've articulated quite well - for virtually everyone to understand - the situation a lot of season tickets holders are currently facing. True, you're only one fan but your two tickets AND your indecision about renewing them are, I believe, pretty representative of what a lot of you are feeling.
It is something the Maloofs have to be aware of. And, I think, it's something all fans (especially those who AREN'T season ticket holders) should consider. A lot of people have already been priced right out of the Kings game experience, especially parents with children. Now, more people are being priced out or are right on the edge. I KNOW how difficult this decision is for you and I can imagine the number of people going over the same arguments.
If the team is going to rebuild - and not put a legitimate contender on the court - then the Maloofs are going to have to take a long, hard look at what they're charging for the product they're trying to sell. At some point, it simply becomes too much for the traffic to bear.
It is something the Maloofs have to be aware of. And, I think, it's something all fans (especially those who AREN'T season ticket holders) should consider. A lot of people have already been priced right out of the Kings game experience, especially parents with children. Now, more people are being priced out or are right on the edge. I KNOW how difficult this decision is for you and I can imagine the number of people going over the same arguments.
If the team is going to rebuild - and not put a legitimate contender on the court - then the Maloofs are going to have to take a long, hard look at what they're charging for the product they're trying to sell. At some point, it simply becomes too much for the traffic to bear.
T
I understand their rationale, and it has helped to hear the responses of those dealing with this problem. I NOW see some people don't want to pay the extra money, but if theres a waiting list, obviously some people will pay the amount.
And a situation I'll never be in? I am season ticket holder for the Clippers, not because I like them, but to be able to see professional games for a reasonable price. If I were still in Sacramento, I would have season tickets there, so enough with the assumptions. And no, I don't think I am deterring, much less arguing with anyone, who is expressing their comments about the situation, quite the opposite.
And a situation I'll never be in? I am season ticket holder for the Clippers, not because I like them, but to be able to see professional games for a reasonable price. If I were still in Sacramento, I would have season tickets there, so enough with the assumptions. And no, I don't think I am deterring, much less arguing with anyone, who is expressing their comments about the situation, quite the opposite.
I didn't put your name in parentheses because I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the SACRAMENTO-based fan in general who should realize there just might be a shift of fan support if long-time season ticket holders are starting to drop out. This comes at a critical time, especially when the city/county of Sacramento is wrestling with the idea of building a new arena. All these factors are interconnected and, for the most part, they are more pertinent to fans in this area because they are the ones who pay to go to the games, eat in the restaurants, park in the parking lots, etc. Out-of-town fans are a separate entity because they generally get their Kings fix on TV.
If anything, thesanityannex needs to realize that - as a Kings fan living in LA - there are some issues that simply and basically aren't as relevant to him as they are to people in close proximity to the arena. He might not like it, but it's pretty much the way it goes.
If anything, thesanityannex needs to realize that - as a Kings fan living in LA - there are some issues that simply and basically aren't as relevant to him as they are to people in close proximity to the arena. He might not like it, but it's pretty much the way it goes.
See, I want to be able to see the team I love, at a price that won't drive me into bankruptcy. I had to give up my upper level seats LAST year because I was still paying off the season before. Relocating was not an option, as the less expensive seats weren't available. The point people are trying to make, which you seem intent on twisting, is that the prices have now EXCEEDED any semblance to 'reasonable' especially in comparison to the product on the floor.
The other point that should be made about the waiting list is this. People on that list have been there for a while. Some are waiting for seats in a certain price range. I personally know of someone who was offered seats LAST year, even though they were # 565 on the waiting list. The tickets were too much and they turned them down, choosing to instead remain on the waiting list, just like the 564 people ahead of them on the list that the tickets were offered to first. I find that a telling indication.
The other point that should be made about the waiting list is this. People on that list have been there for a while. Some are waiting for seats in a certain price range. I personally know of someone who was offered seats LAST year, even though they were # 565 on the waiting list. The tickets were too much and they turned them down, choosing to instead remain on the waiting list, just like the 564 people ahead of them on the list that the tickets were offered to first. I find that a telling indication.
T
The dead horse has been beaten to a pulp. I haven't twisted anyone's points, and have NOT ONCE said they should swallow the extra $1500 dollars. I just said it didn't seem like much more, thats all. But, from those I've read responses from, it obviously is, and it seems like its past the point of what they see as reasonable.
I never said that he dreamed up this trade. But from all acounts Webber was indeed being shopped around or for better word availeble for trade. It was in the media all year long. Alot of us including myself did not think it was true at the time but look at the result. Also you would think that Petrie would consider all options for trade before he trades his franchise player.
Ofcourse a GM never makes a trade involving a franchise player without the consent of the owners. That is true in any sport.
I think trading a player that means so much for the city and the team as Webber did was always going to be difficult. That is what I saw when watching the press conference.
Depth did help us believe it or not this year. Look at our health issues we had to deal with this year. Brad, Pedja, Bibby, Bobby, Mobley they all missed time this year heck even DSong missed a game or two. Depth helped us later in the season when we needed it the most. We were to trying survive in the competive West. We made the playoffs in part because we had the depth to survive those injuries. So depth in a team that has this kind of luck with injuries is very important.
You say this was not about Webb's knee and it was about financial considerations. What makes his contract a financial burden then? Earlier you said that the Maloofs traded Webber because they were afraid that would not be able to later. Why would they be afraid to wait? His health was major factor in this trade. If Webber was 100% healthy he would not be financial burden he would be an asset. It has everything to do with his health to think otherwise is putting your head in the sand.
Ofcourse a GM never makes a trade involving a franchise player without the consent of the owners. That is true in any sport.
I think trading a player that means so much for the city and the team as Webber did was always going to be difficult. That is what I saw when watching the press conference.
Depth did help us believe it or not this year. Look at our health issues we had to deal with this year. Brad, Pedja, Bibby, Bobby, Mobley they all missed time this year heck even DSong missed a game or two. Depth helped us later in the season when we needed it the most. We were to trying survive in the competive West. We made the playoffs in part because we had the depth to survive those injuries. So depth in a team that has this kind of luck with injuries is very important.
You say this was not about Webb's knee and it was about financial considerations. What makes his contract a financial burden then? Earlier you said that the Maloofs traded Webber because they were afraid that would not be able to later. Why would they be afraid to wait? His health was major factor in this trade. If Webber was 100% healthy he would not be financial burden he would be an asset. It has everything to do with his health to think otherwise is putting your head in the sand.
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Not unless it gets us results. That vaunted depth didn't get us squat. In fact, it got us a first round exit out of the playoffs. We made the playoffs in good part because, up until Feb. 22, we had a franchise player and effective PF who was putting up exemplary numbers, especially considering what he was coming back from. If you look at the games after the trade, our vaunted depth was a mirage.
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As far as arguing about Webber goes, I'm done. We'll never know what might have been. You think the trade needed to be done at that point in time. I don't and I never will. It's just something that will never be resolved and I'd just as soon leave it at that ...
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As far as arguing about Webber goes, I'm done. We'll never know what might have been. You think the trade needed to be done at that point in time. I don't and I never will. It's just something that will never be resolved and I'd just as soon leave it at that ...
Depth was not a mirage it helped as much as it could. You have to realise that we played as well as can be expected. After losing Brad and dealing with Pedja's on going injury at the time. We did aswell as we could. Petrie did not think that 2 of three 'qualtity' players would have to start the rest of year. Things like this happens to teams(especailly our team given our luck with injuries) but we survived it by playing .500 ball after the trade. Would it be different had Brad been healthy I do not know but what I know is we were able to survive it because we had 3 players that could help us get to the playoffs.
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Cool we aggree to disaggree since neither of us will change the others mind.(eventhough I am right)
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Cool we aggree to disaggree since neither of us will change the others mind.(eventhough I am right)
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exit strategy
In the last few pages, there has been a lot of talk about fans being priced out of their range.
There seems to be a perfect storm brewing. You have a stadium issue that doesn't brew a lot of confidence. You have a team that has taken a step back while eliminating a risky, troubling unattractive contract (this is no indication of the player, just in terms of risk management) along with trimming the payroll expenditures to around the middle of the pack. At the same time prices have gone up in contrast to the product offered.
1Kingzfan put in first hand perspective what I meant by the owners squeezing the fans dry.
The owners have said they aren't looking at moving the team. That doesn't mean that they couldn't sell the team to someone who would. The Kings while they were on the top were the crown jewel, a valuable asset that reaped benefits for other parts of their enterprise. A mediocre team could be a detriment to that image. If they moved the team there would be a PR backlash. If "forced" to sell due to attendance, stadium problems the blame and PR backlash could be diverted. Image in their profession must play a huge part in success or failure. The stadium is an issue that is not going away. If the fans turn away, the door is open. Is that what they are trying to do? A team located my side of the Mississipi would not be an asset to them. There are enough other entertainment options other than Vegas on this side. They would also be able to sell at a hansome profit.
This is all idle musings, none is based on anything but speculation.
In the last few pages, there has been a lot of talk about fans being priced out of their range.
There seems to be a perfect storm brewing. You have a stadium issue that doesn't brew a lot of confidence. You have a team that has taken a step back while eliminating a risky, troubling unattractive contract (this is no indication of the player, just in terms of risk management) along with trimming the payroll expenditures to around the middle of the pack. At the same time prices have gone up in contrast to the product offered.
1Kingzfan put in first hand perspective what I meant by the owners squeezing the fans dry.
The owners have said they aren't looking at moving the team. That doesn't mean that they couldn't sell the team to someone who would. The Kings while they were on the top were the crown jewel, a valuable asset that reaped benefits for other parts of their enterprise. A mediocre team could be a detriment to that image. If they moved the team there would be a PR backlash. If "forced" to sell due to attendance, stadium problems the blame and PR backlash could be diverted. Image in their profession must play a huge part in success or failure. The stadium is an issue that is not going away. If the fans turn away, the door is open. Is that what they are trying to do? A team located my side of the Mississipi would not be an asset to them. There are enough other entertainment options other than Vegas on this side. They would also be able to sell at a hansome profit.
This is all idle musings, none is based on anything but speculation.
Mmm...probably not in the Maloofs case unless they are really flaky. They have basketball in the blood and have waited decades to get their very own team. Don't see them selling out -- it was never an investment, but a dream/hobby they probably had since they were kids.
On the other hand I'm sure the difficulties, with the new arena in particular, came as a bit of a shock to them. Everything was going so well, and then to have such intransigence on that issue must have been a real sobering blow. In theory, they did everything they were susposed to do to grease the new arena wheels -- made the team a winner, exciting, nationally (and internationally) reknowned. For it not to happen had to throw in the first real seeds of doubt. Then injuries, hostile articles, cable company fights, fanbase (and ticket price) issues etc. and the bloom is definitely fading from the charmed Kings/Maloofs franchise rose.
Put all of it together and I do think there is a real risk of the once inconceivable happening, and the Kings fleeing for greener pastures (hell, I might, and I was born in Sacto). But I think they will be fleeing with the Maloofs still in charge -- those guys waited too long to finally get their hands on their big toy to turn around and give it away just a few years later, even if a few spoilsports have made it less fun than it once was.
Actually, they were raised around NBA ownership. So as you suggest, it's in their collective blood.
Their mother sold the Houston Rockets in 1984 after their father passed away. Ever since, Joe and Gavin have longed for a chance to own another franchise.
I'm with Bricklayer here: There's a good chance Sacto may lose the Kings. But the Brothers Maloof losing the Kings? Not a chance...
Their mother sold the Houston Rockets in 1984 after their father passed away. Ever since, Joe and Gavin have longed for a chance to own another franchise.
I'm with Bricklayer here: There's a good chance Sacto may lose the Kings. But the Brothers Maloof losing the Kings? Not a chance...
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Renew, or not to renew...
1kingzfan and I have discussed the issue of renewing season tickets many, many times. Everything he wrote in his explanation touches a part of the thought process I went through before last season with respect to renewing my seats of 10 years.
But the above excerpt is the one issue I struggled with more than anything else.
Sounds trivial to some, but walking away from my tickets was one of the hardest decisions I've made in my short, 40 year life!
But thanks to the rising costs of the seats, the fact that the product on the floor has diminished over the past two seasons, and the introduction of Comcast Sports Network along with TiVO, it looks as though 1kf and SactoGreg may be (again) watching games together. Only next season it will be in front of a TV with a few "sodas"!...
1kingzfan and I have discussed the issue of renewing season tickets many, many times. Everything he wrote in his explanation touches a part of the thought process I went through before last season with respect to renewing my seats of 10 years.
But the above excerpt is the one issue I struggled with more than anything else.
Sounds trivial to some, but walking away from my tickets was one of the hardest decisions I've made in my short, 40 year life!
But thanks to the rising costs of the seats, the fact that the product on the floor has diminished over the past two seasons, and the introduction of Comcast Sports Network along with TiVO, it looks as though 1kf and SactoGreg may be (again) watching games together. Only next season it will be in front of a TV with a few "sodas"!...
I think the "depth" refers to who was on the floor last year. When you look at the here and now, it looks staggering:
Bibby/Bobby
Kevin
Peja/Corliss
Thomas/Skinner
Brad/Tag
Looks bad, but look if the trade hadn't happened:
Bibby/Bobby
Kevin
Peja
Webber
Brad/Tag
Both have staggering holes. Neither has depth. Neither is a title contender. Both have the mid-level and a draft pick. In the first, you have 4 trade exemptions worth ~5 million and the second you have one around 900K.
In both you have two expiring contracts with Tag and Bobby. In the first, you have options. Daunting challenge but options netherless. In the second, you are at a negotiating disadvantage because you have little to no choice but to gut your core. Kevin would probably have to be included to get salaries to match. The downward slope (talent wise) that the Kings have been on since '02 would be continued and possibly accelerated. The first gives the team a chance to stop the downward trend, maybe(?) start upwards.
This team has issues and Petrie has his work cut out.
Bibby/Bobby
Kevin
Peja/Corliss
Thomas/Skinner
Brad/Tag
Looks bad, but look if the trade hadn't happened:
Bibby/Bobby
Kevin
Peja
Webber
Brad/Tag
Both have staggering holes. Neither has depth. Neither is a title contender. Both have the mid-level and a draft pick. In the first, you have 4 trade exemptions worth ~5 million and the second you have one around 900K.
In both you have two expiring contracts with Tag and Bobby. In the first, you have options. Daunting challenge but options netherless. In the second, you are at a negotiating disadvantage because you have little to no choice but to gut your core. Kevin would probably have to be included to get salaries to match. The downward slope (talent wise) that the Kings have been on since '02 would be continued and possibly accelerated. The first gives the team a chance to stop the downward trend, maybe(?) start upwards.
This team has issues and Petrie has his work cut out.
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Kingsgurl and KP,
You asked about the depth issues, no rebuttals?
Kingsgurl, I can't argue about any of your points about the impact on last years team. They were what they were. You concluded by giving the current line-up and my counter is that either way this team was going to face tremendous hurdles. One had a better outlook (IMHO) going forward than the other. This summer begins the future complete with a ton of challenges.
Hoping for a "competitive" team next year.
You asked about the depth issues, no rebuttals?
Kingsgurl, I can't argue about any of your points about the impact on last years team. They were what they were. You concluded by giving the current line-up and my counter is that either way this team was going to face tremendous hurdles. One had a better outlook (IMHO) going forward than the other. This summer begins the future complete with a ton of challenges.
Hoping for a "competitive" team next year.
Sorry, wasn't on. What's to rebutt? You said yourself the team isn't deep, which was my point. (the issue isn't 'would we have been deep if the trade hadn't been made', the issue is people keep saying we are a deep team, and it just isn't true. We aren't. Don't confuse quantity with quality.
There are, indeed, huge hurdles to be overcome. I don't see the job as being quite as easy as some are making it out to be (not you, whozit) It took Petrie a couple years to put it all together originally, and that was without the constraints we are currently under salary cap wise. 50 win seasons weren't good enough for some, what's the feeling going to be if we are not able to maintain even that? It could happen. Petrie is exceptionally good at what he does, but it's a TALL order.
I get the feeling some have not adjusted the expectation level to where we realistically are.
There are, indeed, huge hurdles to be overcome. I don't see the job as being quite as easy as some are making it out to be (not you, whozit) It took Petrie a couple years to put it all together originally, and that was without the constraints we are currently under salary cap wise. 50 win seasons weren't good enough for some, what's the feeling going to be if we are not able to maintain even that? It could happen. Petrie is exceptionally good at what he does, but it's a TALL order.
I get the feeling some have not adjusted the expectation level to where we realistically are.
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Not sure at this point if the team even has quantity. It just has a lot of pieces and exemptions that hopefully Petrie can combine some way to reverse the direction of the team. The downward trend has been on for a couple of years now. The point of falling of the edge into the lottery is close, hopefully averted but not sure about that.
And I am sorry if I came across wrong.
And I am sorry if I came across wrong.
I'm trying to remember the last time the Maloofs gave the go ahead to use any of our trade exceptions? Willl this be the year? Or are we still trying to trim payroll as best we can? This should be interesting, and might give an indication of how serious the Maloofs currently are about winning. (I know they WANT to win, but are they willing to spend extra? They haven't been for several years now. Will that trend continue? I think that 'trimming' of expenditures, the wise BUSINESS choice of not over-spending is the single biggest contributor to the decline of the team over the last several seasons.