Petrie can see the job ahead

[LPKingsFan]

Denver would likely do the Najera/Lenard move, but that's the level of junk we must avoid. Just more junk to add to a team full of random parts.

As for Nene -- depends on how high they are on him. The reality is they are going to lose him in a year anyway unless they clear a starting spot for him, so they might actually be willing to inclue him in a trade for a starting SG who can space the floor.

As for Utah, I agree the problem wiuld be why would he want to go there? The answer would have to be money. Okur would actually be a good fit here and Sloan was NOT high on him so there might even be a chance, but he and Brad together are just impossibly bad athletically. Would love to have Harpring too, and apparently there was an issue there with there not being room for him an Kirilenko together -- I'd cheerfully trade Cat for Harpring's touoghness, and I think it might add balance to Utah too (of course losing Sloan's preferred toughness). But again, we'd have to talk Cat into it. A little closer to home in Texas I guess.

BTW, Cat is 30, realistically there is no way he's going to take less money on what is likely going to be his last big contract. Now how much he can get is another question, but he should get a nice deal as somebody's starter. Of the top off-guards out there, he may be the only one really available (Redd, Allen, Johnson, Hughes).

Denver supposedly will be under the cap next year, so they could possibly have enough room to sign Cat outright without giving anything up.

I wouldn't mind getting Harpring either, he's a great hustle and tough player. If I were Rick I'd put him on Peja every day in practice and force Peja how do deal with a tough defender. Or should we just go after Trenton Hassell?

 

[VF21]

I don't think you are over-reacting, but neither do I think everything will be just as good come November. It's the great unknown that is frustrating; understanding that with the trading of Doug and Webber, and the talk of replacing Adelman ANYTHING can happen and we can do absolutely nothing about it. NOTHING! This is where my 12 step program always comes in handy...

The fanbase IS questioning all these moves and are concerned, but it has nothing to do with ticket prices, that's just business. I hope the Maloof's are sensitive to it, though as someone else has said they have a HUGE cushion presently. They undoubtedly understand their cushion is not eternal, and will right that ship in some way. I trust their business sense.

It was my understanding that Maloof's spoke to Petrie before they contacted Phil's agent: (I know, it's Voisin. Could she have lied, I dunno)

"After speaking with Petrie on Thursday, Joe Maloof contacted Jackson's agent, Todd Musburger."
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/basketball/kings/story/12846009p-13695631c.html

You think Petrie made 'the trade' after season ticket holders paid their last installment, but I disagree, because that would imply that there was a suitor(s) for the trade waiting in the wing, and I doubt that could be true. Of course that could just be my bias that Webbers contract was near impossible to trade. Just sounds like a conspiracy-theory stretch to me.

I hated to see a) Vlade be turned away for a couple of million (and subsequently sign Tag for twice as much), b) Doug thoughtlessly traded for ... well, it didn't matter who, they weren't as necessary as Doug in my estimation and c) Web have to play Kings his very first game as a 6er. Those all broke my heart just a little, and quite obviously widdled away the trust of many fans. I would have liked to see those three stay and retire as Kings, even Webber (if it weren't for his contract, but I'm not going to argue it) and just play in a diminished role. What we gained in Doug's contract $$$ we will lose with Cat's departure, sad. At the end of the day, Vlade would probably have chosen to remain a King less the 2.4 mil, and it goes without saying the effect the Doug & Web trades had on them.

I wish I could speak to the coaching question, but I just don't know who's out there. Glitz has never appealed to me, but Phil Jackson does. Will he come here? Naw...we got worked over. It will be interesting to see where the next coach comes from, and I for one am all for it. Adelman has been as much a part of the Kings as Arco has, and now even ARCO's future is in question.

Should prove to be an interesting year for the Kings organization. Like someone else has said, I am looking forward to see how it all plays out.

Sorry, but you've misunderstood just about everything I was trying to say.

1. There is a certain percentage of the fan based that is DEFINITELY questioning the newest rise in ticket prices. You may not believe it but I know of two season ticket holders who are totally giving up their tickets and at least two others who are trying to switch to upper level seats instead of the higher priced lower seats. In addition, I know of at least three people who are having a lot of trouble justifying the cost any longer. And that's just people I KNOW PERSONALLY - and I'm not even in Sacramento.

2. Petrie DID make the trade after the season ticket holders had paid for their playoff tickets. I didn't imply in any way, shape or form that it was any kind of conspiracy, etc. but it did happen. And because of it, some season ticket holders felt they had spent money on something without knowing all the pertinent information and - as above - at least a couple of them might not have been so quick to part with THOUSANDS of dollars had they known what was right around the corner.

The Maloofs may have good business sense, but I'm seriously beginning to doubt their people sense. They bought a franchise that didn't win much and had an incredibly loyal fan base. Now they're looking at a franchise that might not win as much AND they're not doing much to install a sense of security or loyalty in the fans they profess to admire.

 

[VF21]

Ideally maybe the Kings could've gotten more for Webber had he continued to play so well putting up triple doubles. However, let's not forget the major reason he was traded in the first place: the uncertainty of his knee and his huge contract. It would've been extremely risky to keep Webber longer since he could get hurt at anytime playing on that fragile knee. The Kings felt they were playing with fire given his injury and his contract, they felt they were better off making a deal when he was healthy before something bad happened.

I'm going to respond to two of your posts in one reply...

First, the comment that the NBA is a business is about the most ridiculous trite phrase used on message boards today. Well OF COURSE it's a business. But there different ways to run businesses. You can run a business that rewards loyalty and dedication and hard work, or you can simply run a business that pays no attention to the needs or feeling of the employees and simply does EVERYTHING with primary focus on the bottom line. You can run a business that is customer oriented or you can run a business that pays minimal attention to the customer needs until such time as the customers quit buying. There is a certain intangible something called "good will" that can often mean the success or failure of a business, regardless of its potential. Right now, the Maloofs are using up a lot of good will IMHO without addressing the real issue of how much more customers (fans) are willing to put with before they start turning away.

Second, the second myth is that Webber had to be traded because his knee might give out at any moment. That's simply rationalizing after the fact - and it's as ludicrous now as when it was first uttered.

The Kings felt they were playing with fire given his injury and his contract, they felt they were better off making a deal when he was healthy before something bad happened.

So you're speaking on behalf of the entire organization? If they did the deal because they were afraid he might be injured again, then they'd better get rid of Peja asap because he's had plantar fasciitis, back problems, etc. and those can be much more problematic...

In most knee procedures like Webber's, full recovery comes after about 18 months. How good are you going to feel about his trade IF, next season, he's able to put up triple doubles on a regular basis while we're struggling without a leader and WITHOUT a PF who is actually capable of doing the same?

The timing of the trade stunk. The Maloofs gave up on the 2004 team and as much as said so. And now we have to watch to hope we'll still have something to cheer about next season.

 

[VF21]

IMHO, even with Webber, the Kings still make a first round exit. They might have won 1 more game though. Webber would have been dominated inside by the thug combo. Even if they get out of the first round, they get squashed in the second round. So, IMO, getting rid of Webb/Webb contract now and ducking out of the playoffs, seems better than losing the second round and still having Webber and his SMALL contract.

I disagree. You have no way of knowing if Webber would have been dominated inside because with Webber AND Miller out there, we have experience, savvy AND talent.

AND, to be honest, if we hadn't traded Webber, we might have gone a completely different route. We might not have faced the Spurs until the WCF.

Bottom line is we'll never know because IMHO the Maloofs panicked and pulled the trigger too early, tearing out the heart and soul of our team in the process.

 

[Team Dime]

Everyone knows why the Kings made the trade.

And when you peel back the onion, that is exactly what makes it hard to stomach as a Kings fan: Throwing in the towel.

Basically, they did the deal to dump Webber's contract, while sacrificing the season along the way. And if you really believe this team was better as a result of the in-season trades, well, I hope you're excited about the Pistons/Heat game 7 tonight.

Sure it's a business, but you have to offer a product your customers are willing to buy. And as far as I'm concerned, the Maloofs and Petrie lost a lot of customers hopes as a result of their collective decision...

I completely disagree. I think what the Kings did relates alot more to the big picture. If the Kings had kept Webber I think his knee would only get worse, causing him to miss alot more games and became less productive. They would get less in return for him had they waited untilt the offseason and possibly nothing at all. If they got stuck with paying the last 3 years of his contract it would severely diminish the product the Kings would be able to put on the floor over the next couple of seasons. By making the trade when the did it, they got alot more flexibility allowing Petrie to work his magic this summer. We all know it was Petrie who built this team into contender in the first place. Based on his track record, I have to believe he'll be able to do it again. I for one am happy the Kings had the foresight to make the trade now so the Kings have a chance become contenders again over the new few seasons instead of dropping into the lottery since they're committed to pay $62 for Webber over the next three seasons. This move was done with the fans in mind, the goal is to win. The team needed to make this move now to give itself a chance in the future. As for throwing up the white flag on this season, I don't think there was any chance of the Kings with Webber getting past the Spurs, especially considering the overall lack of athleticism and bad defense.

 

[Team Dime]

I'm going to respond to two of your posts in one reply...

First, the comment that the NBA is a business is about the most ridiculous trite phrase used on message boards today. Well OF COURSE it's a business. But there different ways to run businesses. You can run a business that rewards loyalty and dedication and hard work, or you can simply run a business that pays no attention to the needs or feeling of the employees and simply does EVERYTHING with primary focus on the bottom line. You can run a business that is customer oriented or you can run a business that pays minimal attention to the customer needs until such time as the customers quit buying. There is a certain intangible something called "good will" that can often mean the success or failure of a business, regardless of its potential. Right now, the Maloofs are using up a lot of good will IMHO without addressing the real issue of how much more customers (fans) are willing to put with before they start turning away.

Second, the second myth is that Webber had to be traded because his knee might give out at any moment. That's simply rationalizing after the fact - and it's as ludicrous now as when it was first uttered.



So you're speaking on behalf of the entire organization? If they did the deal because they were afraid he might be injured again, then they'd better get rid of Peja asap because he's had plantar fasciitis, back problems, etc. and those can be much more problematic...

In most knee procedures like Webber's, full recovery comes after about 18 months. How good are you going to feel about his trade IF, next season, he's able to put up triple doubles on a regular basis while we're struggling without a leader and WITHOUT a PF who is actually capable of doing the same?

The timing of the trade stunk. The Maloofs gave up on the 2004 team and as much as said so. And now we have to watch to hope we'll still have something to cheer about next season.

Well let's see. Before Webber got hurt he was a perennial All Star to whom the Kings rewarded with about $121 million contract. After the knee injury he was not and NEVER will be the same player. I think it's pretty safe speculation on my part to say the organization felt that they needed to get rid of Webber now since his knee will only get worse. I love Webber and wish him the best but, have you seen how much his game has changed? He struggles to just to make it up and down the court, it looks like the knee is on the verge of going out at any time. The knee aside, Webber's injury past has not been very good. When's the last time he played a full season? It seems like he's always coming down with some sort of injury whether it be a bad ankle, his back, or his knee. I think it's a good assumption to say these type of injuries will only get worse as he gets older. Now combine that with his bad knee, what kind of picture does that paint?

I've never been that big of an Iverson fan and O'Brien wasn't that good of a coach, but Webber did have his own share of struggles that were his fault in Philly. It looks like there may be something to it that players look alot better in the Kings system than with alot of other teams. I highly doubt that we'll see Webber "putting up triple doubles on a regular basis" next season.

If the Kings really felt that this was their best chance to trade Webber and get the most back in return, why would they not do it just because the season ticket holders already paid for the playoffs? I think these comments that it was morally wrong to do at that time is ridiculous. The season ticket holders should be aware of the fact that the team may make major trades like that right before the trading deadline, putting the team's playoff hopes in jeopardy. That's part of the risk the fans take when they buy season tickets. The Kings organization has the responsibility to do whatever's necessary to make itself better. Sometimes you have to take a step back in the short term for the benefit of improving in the long run. That's why some fans should remember it's a business, because they're not acting like it when they complain about how wrong it was to trade Webber after they paid for the playoff tickets.

I wouldn't be so quick to criticize the Maloofs just yet because before they came to Sactown this team was the laughing stock of the league. I believe they want to win, I think the Maloofs and Petrie made a tough, but necessary trade to improve this team over the long run.

 

[VF21]

You THINK his knee would have gotten worse? Well, that's a pretty big leap of faith right there.

A lot more flexibility? Yeah, because Kenny Thomas, Corliss Williamson and Brian Skinner are such hot commodities? If we are going to get better, it's not going to be by trading any of them. They're gonna be add-ons, if anything, for a trade that invovles one of our core 3 players.

The Maloofs had the foresight to make the trade now? That's one way of looking at it. BUT it only becomes a good deal at that precise point in time if Webber's knee ends up failing him. His knee didn't fail between Feb. 23 and the end of the season. In fact, he was putting up respectable numbers on a new team and could well have been a key factor in the Kings placing higher in the standings and going further in the playoffs.

You can say you don't think the Kings would have been able to get past the Spurs but that would have been a lot better than losing to the Sonics in the first round.

 

[VF21]

Well let's see. Before Webber got hurt he was a perennial All Star to whom the Kings rewarded with about $121 million contract. After the knee injury he was not and NEVER will be the same player. I think it's pretty safe speculation on my part to say the organization felt that they needed to get rid of Webber now since his knee will only get worse. I love Webber and wish him the best but, have you seen how much his game has changed? He struggles to just to make it up and down the court, it looks like the knee is on the verge of going out at any time. The knee aside, Webber's injury past has not been very good. When's the last time he played a full season? It seems like he's always coming down with some sort of injury whether it be a bad ankle, his back, or his knee. I think it's a good assumption to say these type of injuries will only get worse as he gets older. Now combine that with his bad knee, what kind of picture does that paint?

I've never been that big of an Iverson fan and O'Brien wasn't that good of a coach, but Webber did have his own share of struggles that were his fault in Philly. It looks like there may be something to it that players look alot better in the Kings system than with alot of other teams. I highly doubt that we'll see Webber "putting up triple doubles on a regular basis" next season.

If the Kings really felt that this was their best chance to trade Webber and get the most back in return, why would they not do it just because the season ticket holders already paid for the playoffs? I think these comments that it was morally wrong to do at that time is ridiculous. The season ticket holders should be aware of the fact that the team may make major trades like that right before the trading deadline, putting the team's playoff hopes in jeopardy. That's part of the risk the fans take when they buy season tickets. The Kings organization has the responsibility to do whatever's necessary to make itself better. Sometimes you have to take a step back in the short term for the benefit of improving in the long run. That's why some fans should remember it's a business, because they're not acting like it when they complain about how wrong it was to trade Webber after they paid for the playoff tickets.

I wouldn't be so quick to criticize the Maloofs just yet because before they came to Sactown this team was the laughing stock of the league. I believe they want to win, I think the Maloofs and Petrie made a tough, but necessary trade to improve this team over the long run.

Sorry, but you and I are diametrically opposed and I see no reason to continue to argue. All you're doing is attempting to lecture me about what "you have to take a step back..." etc. Nice platitudes but pretty meaningless UNLESS everything comes to pass the way you expect it to.

This idiotic repetition of "it's a business" is tiresome and inaccurate. If a season ticket holder pays $6,000 for playoff tickets on the belief and trust that they'll be seeing in May the same team they're watching on Feb. 15, then don't they have the right to be disappointed and dismayed on Feb. 23 when the franchise player is suddenly traded to the 76ers? Did you pony up your SIX GRAND??????

I don't think so.

And, for the record, Petrie had NEVER - that's as in NOT ONCE - done a trade right before the deadline, so most season ticket holders didn't even consider the possibility.

CLARIFICATION: You have totally missed the point about the season ticket holders and the timing of the trade. The point is that people are disappointed and they're wondering if they should continue to pay rising prices after everything that's happened. The trade is one of the things that have caused people to start wondering. The people I know traditionally have spent $12,000 to $15,000 for season tickets. That's a LOT of money. If they're questioning whether or not they can continue to do it, it's an indication something is happening in the fan base. You might not want to accept it, but you cannot deny it's happening.

 

[KP]

I completely disagree. I think what the Kings did relates alot more to the big picture. If the Kings had kept Webber I think his knee would only get worse, causing him to miss alot more games and became less productive. They would get less in return for him had they waited untilt the offseason and possibly nothing at all. If they got stuck with paying the last 3 years of his contract it would severely diminish the product the Kings would be able to put on the floor over the next couple of seasons. By making the trade when the did it, they got alot more flexibility allowing Petrie to work his magic this summer. We all know it was Petrie who built this team into contender in the first place. Based on his track record, I have to believe he'll be able to do it again. I for one am happy the Kings had the foresight to make the trade now so the Kings have a chance become contenders again over the new few seasons instead of dropping into the lottery since they're committed to pay $62 for Webber over the next three seasons. This move was done with the fans in mind, the goal is to win. The team needed to make this move now to give itself a chance in the future. As for throwing up the white flag on this season, I don't think there was any chance of the Kings with Webber getting past the Spurs, especially considering the overall lack of athleticism and bad defense.

See VF's post^. We don't know what would have happened if we kept Webber, all we know for sure is how bad we got whooped without him. 1-4 to a team people were actually happy we drew because they thought we could match up well(laughable).The Sonics wiped the floor with us. We will definately see next year how easily we can recover, so far post trade we are a .500 team, people act like the team we ended the year with won 50 games... they just took a good record and limped to the finish line. The team we have right now is still going to have to deal with the cap, and some bad contracts we took on in the trade. We have no idea what this team is going to look like next year, but we could just as easily miss the playoffs if the Lakers and T-wolves bounce back, and the Warriors continue to play the way they did at the end of the year. Petrie can turn this team around and validate his moves this year, but don't act like he already has. GP has a lot of work to do this offseason.

 

[Mad D]

It seems like he's always coming down with some sort of injury whether it be a bad ankle, his back, or his knee. I think it's a good assumption to say these type of injuries will only get worse as he gets older.

Just want to point out that Bobby, Peja, and Brad played less games than Webber this year.

continue..

 

[SactoGreg]

I completely disagree. I think what the Kings did relates alot more to the big picture. If the Kings had kept Webber I think his knee would only get worse, causing him to miss alot more games and became less productive. They would get less in return for him had they waited untilt the offseason and possibly nothing at all. If they got stuck with paying the last 3 years of his contract it would severely diminish the product the Kings would be able to put on the floor over the next couple of seasons. By making the trade when the did it, they got alot more flexibility allowing Petrie to work his magic this summer. We all know it was Petrie who built this team into contender in the first place. Based on his track record, I have to believe he'll be able to do it again. I for one am happy the Kings had the foresight to make the trade now so the Kings have a chance become contenders again over the new few seasons instead of dropping into the lottery since they're committed to pay $62 for Webber over the next three seasons. This move was done with the fans in mind, the goal is to win. The team needed to make this move now to give itself a chance in the future. As for throwing up the white flag on this season, I don't think there was any chance of the Kings with Webber getting past the Spurs, especially considering the overall lack of athleticism and bad defense.

TD,

I understand the reason the trade was made. I thought I made that clear in my first post. My bad if I didn't.

Making the moves to unload a player's salary/commitment was the motivating factor. I understand that. But I cannot allow myself to get caught up in the "what if's" with respect to Webber's injured knee. I look at it purely from results, and to ponder whether or not the Kings would have gone further in the playoffs or a first round exit is a waste of energy, IMO.

Unfortunately, the trades came at a cost: The end of any possibilities of a competitive run in the post season. And although I am one that is still disappointed with the trades, it is not for the reasons of many who also share in the disappointment. I wanted something to happen during the season to COMPLIMENT Webber and the core Kings players, not to negatively affect key components of the team chemistry.

With all due respect, your comment regarding the recent trades being done with "the fan in mind" is delusional. As many have already mentioned, the increasing costs of attending a game against the product received is getting many to think hard about the value the Kings represent. I, in fact, made a decision to walk away from the financial commitment because of these same reasons.

So you see, taking a conservative, salaried-base decision during a trade is one that happens all the time in the NBA. And as you suggest, it may help the Kings in the long run.

However, I am not one that is interested in a "team restructuring" unless it makes a more immediate impact on the team.

Petrie has a terrific track record, and I think he is a capable GM.

He'll need to be. This off-season may be the toughest position of his tenured career...

 

[Padrino]

You THINK his knee would have gotten worse? Well, that's a pretty big leap of faith right there.

A lot more flexibility? Yeah, because Kenny Thomas, Corliss Williamson and Brian Skinner are such hot commodities? If we are going to get better, it's not going to be by trading any of them. They're gonna be add-ons, if anything, for a trade that invovles one of our core 3 players.

The Maloofs had the foresight to make the trade now? That's one way of looking at it. BUT it only becomes a good deal at that precise point in time if Webber's knee ends up failing him. His knee didn't fail between Feb. 23 and the end of the season. In fact, he was putting up respectable numbers on a new team and could well have been a key factor in the Kings placing higher in the standings and going further in the playoffs.

You can say you don't think the Kings would have been able to get past the Spurs but that would have been a lot better than losing to the Sonics in the first round.

i've always considered trading webber (leastways, in the trade scenario that played out) a bigger risk than keeping him. if we are unable to move thomas or williamson, and we eat their contracts in the end, what the hell did we trade webber for? one of the things i noticed about a team like the spurs is they eat their big-time contracts, riding them out til the bitter end. this gives a whole lotta cap flexibility for future use, ya just have to sit tight and be patient. somebody tell me how many more years are on webber's contract? 2 or 3, is it? i cant remember. but, either way, if we had ridden webb's contract to the very end, and he had stayed healthy, then ya kill two birds with one stone. ya get a healthy superstar for a couple more years (no matter how limited he is, he's still a great PF), and ya get a ****load of cap space when ya dont re-sign him. webber's health should never have been the issue. he's healthy right now and his good health for the future is, imo, a likelhihood. apart from soreness, what indication was there that webb's knee was going to FAIL in the future? sure, he couldnt jump as high, or move as fast, but what indication was there that his knee was going to straight GIVE OUT during the season (spanning the end of last season thru his tenure with the kings this season)? i didnt see any. instead of having incredible cap flexibilty in a few years, we're gonna either a) be stuck with contracts from mediocre players that dont expire any time soon or b) receive more mediocre players via trade. it'd be awfully difficult for GP to pull off an undercutting trade with the guys we received in the webber trade. chances are, we'd get younger, mediocre players, but i wouldnt expect much more than that. i honestly believe we should have eaten webb's contract til the very end. if he reinjures his knee, it would have sucked majorly. but, with a little love, loyalty and (for God's sake!) patience, the kings would have had some incredible cap freedom. woulda been nice...

 

[Team Dime]

You THINK his knee would have gotten worse? Well, that's a pretty big leap of faith right there.

A lot more flexibility? Yeah, because Kenny Thomas, Corliss Williamson and Brian Skinner are such hot commodities? If we are going to get better, it's not going to be by trading any of them. They're gonna be add-ons, if anything, for a trade that invovles one of our core 3 players.

The Maloofs had the foresight to make the trade now? That's one way of looking at it. BUT it only becomes a good deal at that precise point in time if Webber's knee ends up failing him. His knee didn't fail between Feb. 23 and the end of the season. In fact, he was putting up respectable numbers on a new team and could well have been a key factor in the Kings placing higher in the standings and going further in the playoffs.

You can say you don't think the Kings would have been able to get past the Spurs but that would have been a lot better than losing to the Sonics in the first round.

The goal is to win the championship. It doesn't really matter if you lost to the Sonics in the 1st round or the Spurs in the Conf. finals.

Respectable numbers? Overall he had a pretty significant drop off. Just give it some time. I'll go on record right now saying that I guarantee Webber won't play a full season next year. Injuries only get worse as you get older. Like I've said I think the Kings were very afraid of his health deteriorating and getting stuck paying his contract, severely limiting their ability to obtain other good players.

 

[Padrino]

Like I've said I think the Kings were very afraid of his health deteriorating and getting stuck paying his contract, severely limiting their ability to obtain other good players.

oh, so you're talkin about the good players we're gonna get by trading williamson, thomas, or skinner, who are all SO INCREDIBLY valuable on the trading block, right?

 

[VF21]

What Webber does in the future is irrelevant. He didn't break down between Feb. 23 and the end of the 76ers season. In fact, considering how alien the whole experience was when he hit Philly, the fact he could do anything at all spoke volumes.

The goal might be to win a championship but losing in the conference finals is much more respectable than losing to a team everyone was so sure we could stomp...

We'll just agree to disagree because you seem to feel everything is okay and that's fine...for you. I do not think everything is okay and I fear the Kings have a very rough road ahead of them, one that was made rougher because the Maloofs panicked.

Have a nice day...

 

[KP]

oh, so you're talkin about the good players we're gonna get by trading williamson, thomas, or skinner, who are all SO INCREDIBLY valuable on the trading block, right?

Don't forget they never get injured either... but at least they step up in the playoffs.

 

[Padrino]

Don't forget they never get injured either... but at least they step up in the playoffs.

oh, dont i know it! i dont know how i could have POSSIBLY forgotten that very important fact!






















isnt sarcasm a wonderful thing?

 

[Team Dime]

Sorry, but you and I are diametrically opposed and I see no reason to continue to argue. All you're doing is attempting to lecture me about what "you have to take a step back..." etc. Nice platitudes but pretty meaningless UNLESS everything comes to pass the way you expect it to.

This idiotic repetition of "it's a business" is tiresome and inaccurate. If a season ticket holder pays $6,000 for playoff tickets on the belief and trust that they'll be seeing in May the same team they're watching on Feb. 15, then don't they have the right to be disappointed and dismayed on Feb. 23 when the franchise player is suddenly traded to the 76ers? Did you pony up your SIX GRAND??????

I don't think so.

And, for the record, Petrie had NEVER - that's as in NOT ONCE - done a trade right before the deadline, so most season ticket holders didn't even consider the possibility.

CLARIFICATION: You have totally missed the point about the season ticket holders and the timing of the trade. The point is that people are disappointed and they're wondering if they should continue to pay rising prices after everything that's happened. The trade is one of the things that have caused people to start wondering. The people I know traditionally have spent $12,000 to $15,000 for season tickets. That's a LOT of money. If they're questioning whether or not they can continue to do it, it's an indication something is happening in the fan base. You might not want to accept it, but you cannot deny it's happening.

Likewise, you attempted to lecture me in how a business works. Where I come from, that might considered condescending. Also, I know I've gotten PM's from you before for saying people's comments were idiotic. I've seen the poster criticize me for calling his post idiotic and was subsequently warned by you not to do so. That being said it's pretty funny to see part of my post referred to by you as "idiotic repetition" and to see another poster call my post "delusional". I honestly don't mind, I'm a big boy, I can handle it. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. You can warn me or kick me off the board, but I just thought I should voice my opinion.

....In regards to the season ticket holder thing, you know, there's a first time for everything. That's the way the NBA works, the team has the right to make trades as it sees fit. I understand that some season ticket holders are turned off by this and will not renew, but the main point I'm arguing is this: if the team kept Webber and the team got worse by having to pay his contract as his health and productivity declined then I think alot of the ticket holders would be turned off as well. The team would be losing and the fan interest would decrease. On the other hand, if Petrie makes some good trades and signings this summer and the team is able to remain strong, then the fan interest will come back. Winning cures all. That's the bottom line.

Petrie is a genius, I think he's had a major plan in place for quite some time now. Just wait and see over the next 2 years. I believe this team is in good hands with a great GM and a pair of good owners.

 

[Team Dime]

i honestly believe we should have eaten webb's contract til the very end. if he reinjures his knee, it would have sucked majorly. but, with a little love, loyalty and (for God's sake!) patience, the kings would have had some incredible cap freedom. woulda been nice...

Here's a hypothetical question for ya: If it was known for a fact that Webber's health and productivity would fall off dramatically over the next two years, would you ride out his contract anyways just to be loyal?


I think the Kings have given him about $60 million reasons not to feel bad over the last few years.

 

[thesanityannex]

I disagree. You have no way of knowing if Webber would have been dominated inside because with Webber AND Miller out there, we have experience, savvy AND talent.

AND, to be honest, if we hadn't traded Webber, we might have gone a completely different route. We might not have faced the Spurs until the WCF.

Bottom line is we'll never know because IMHO the Maloofs panicked and pulled the trigger too early, tearing out the heart and soul of our team in the process.

If I have no way of knowing then either do you. Both of us are speculating the "what if's". And even if Webber AND Miller had played together, I still see them being dominated inside on the glass, but, that too is speculation. I guess we'll see if the Maloofs panicked once next season starts. And I also hope Webber proves everyone wrong and has a fantastic season next year.

 

[thesanityannex]

You can say you don't think the Kings would have been able to get past the Spurs but that would have been a lot better than losing to the Sonics in the first round.

Even if they got past the first round, how is that better because now they would be stuck with a nearly impossible contract to move.

 

[KP]

I guess we'll see if the Maloofs panicked once next season starts.

That^ we can agree on.

 

[VF21]

I believe this team is in good hands with a great GM and a pair of good owners.

I hope, more than anything else in the whole world, that you're right. I would have no problem with admitting I had been wrong and shouldn't have been worried.

As far as season tickets holders go, their first installment is due within a couple of weeks. FACT. I know several who are seriously wondering if they can afford to make the increased expenditures with so many questions about the future of the team. FACT. Although the sell-out streak is intact, several games towards the end of the season were "paper sell-outs," meaning the seats were "sold" but not occupied. That, too, is a FACT. And it's one you generally don't ever see in regard to stretch games for the Kings. It just hasn't been happening but it did this year.

On the other hand, if Petrie makes some good trades and signings this summer and the team is able to remain strong, then the fan interest will come back.

And what if those miraculous good trades and signings don't happen? When the Kings were a losing franchise, there was still something special that kept the fans loyal and involved. That something special isn't there right now - we can only hope that it returns.

If even fans like me, who have been incredibly loyal through thick and thin for 20 years, can be feeling doubt, then I think we have the right to discuss it realistically. Things AREN'T all sweetness, joy and light right now... we could very well have a tough road ahead of us before we get back to where we were. It won't stop me from being a fan, but it certainly effect how I view the decisions the Maloofs made. Make no mistake. Petrie would not have pulled the trigger on the Webber deal without the urging of the Maloofs. You don't trade away a franchise player without the approval of the owners. I am convinced the Maloofs panicked...and made a mistake. If Petrie can alleviate the ramifications of that mistake, more power to him. Hopefully he'll be able to pull a living, breathing rabbit out of his hat and not just rabbit pellets...

 

[Team Dime]

If I have no way of knowing then either do you. Both of us are speculating the "what if's". And even if Webber AND Miller had played together, I still see them being dominated inside on the glass, but, that too is speculation. I guess we'll see if the Maloofs panicked once next season starts. And I also hope Webber proves everyone wrong and has a fantastic season next year.

Also, the Kings weren't playing too well right before the Webber trade. They had lost 6 out of the last 10 and clearly looked like a team whose window had closed. Just some food for thought.

 

[VF21]

Even if they got past the first round, how is that better because now they would be stuck with a nearly impossible contract to move.

That's assuming they would still want to move the contract. You're making the assumption that at some point Webber would have ceased to be productive for us. I'm saying we'll never know AND, as previously pointed out, IF we had held onto Webber for the duration of his contract, we would have had HUGE salary relief once it expired.

 

[thesanityannex]

How much are ticket prices going up this year???

 

[VF21]

I believe it was about 10%, but someone who can actually afford season tickets would be in a better position to state the actual amount.

 

[KP]

Also, the Kings weren't playing too well right before the Webber trade. They had lost 6 out of the last 10 and clearly looked like a team whose window had closed. Just some food for thought.

They had two games against good teams (Dallas and Phoenix) that IMO if officiated correctly we would have won. Not to mention nothing is made clear by a 10 game stretch in Feb. Also the summer before Webbs last contract year(2 years from now) His Contract would become huge trade bait for any team looking to make a move for an expiring contract. If he was playing halfway decent at all at that point his contract would be in high demand anyway.

 

[thesanityannex]

so somewhere in the ballpark of a 1500 dollar raise?
if so, that doesn't seem like that much if you are already shelling out 15,000 dollars.
whats 16500 compared to 15000. but, i cant afford either so im mad.

 

[Padrino]

Here's a hypothetical question for ya: If it was known for a fact that Webber's health and productivity would fall off dramatically over the next two years, would you ride out his contract anyways just to be loyal?


I think the Kings have given him about $60 million reasons not to feel bad over the last few years.

to answer your hypothetical question, no i wouldn't, leastways not simply for loyalty. i would do it to have the ability to move freely under tha cap when his contract expired. the kings broke up one difficult contract-to-move into 3, slightly less difficult contracts-to-move. but, either way, if this is all based on hypotheses, then how can the kings get better? my suggestion that the kings should have waited his contract out and given themselves the cap room is, of course, a big risk. but trading him for what we got is also a risk. i happen to agree with VF21 about the maloofs gettin real panicky before the trade happened. it seems to me the maloofs have gotten into a habit of gambling unwisely. there's a third alternative that hasnt been discussed hardly a lick in all the webber discussions since the trade transpired: wait until the off season (or later), then try and trade him. his contract was incredibly difficult to move, but just because they did move it doesnt make it a miracel or anything, and mostly because of what we got in return. there's just as much uncertainty as there would have been if we had kept webber. thats what frustrates me. i see a kings team that is worse than prior to the trade, and i see no visible signs that things are "for sure" going to get better before they continue to get worse. to me, the maloofs should have been damn "for sure" before ripping the heart straight outta this team. that is, of course, my humble opinion...but i'm stickin to it.