Perspective on Tyreke Evans

[fnordius]

Hard work = success. Definitely. No one disagrees with that.

Hard work = successfully reaching a lot of your potential, whatever that is. For one person in 100,000, maybe your ceiling is Wilt Chamberlain. Being 5'10", and somewhat athletically gifted, I would have had to work ridiculously hard to have a prayer of making it into the NBA, but my lack of either height or extreme talent would have made it virtually impossible. Seeing as I'm now significantly older than the oldest player in the NBA, it is ENTIRELY impossible, no matter how much effort I might put into it.

You need both natural gifts and a ton of work. Without one or the other, you can only go so far.

 

[bajaden]

Hard work = successfully reaching a lot of your potential, whatever that is. For one person in 100,000, maybe your ceiling is Wilt Chamberlain. Being 5'10", and somewhat athletically gifted, I would have had to work ridiculously hard to have a prayer of making it into the NBA, but my lack of either height or extreme talent would have made it virtually impossible. Seeing as I'm now significantly older than the oldest player in the NBA, it is ENTIRELY impossible, no matter how much effort I might put into it.

You need both natural gifts and a ton of work. Without one or the other, you can only go so far.

He looks to have good form on his shot. I also like his focus and apparent toughness. His leaping ability is suspect...

 

[AriesMar27]

why does he look like andrea bargnani?

 

[Kingster]

You're failing to give Scottie Pippin the credit he deserves. From 1989 to 1999, he averaged close to 6 assists per game. Pippin was, in essence, their PG. If we had someone like that, and the young MJ, we'd be in dandy shape. But without that 6-assist guy, or a couple of 5-assist guys like CWebb and Vlade, it doesn't work.

You can do fine with someone who is playing PG from a different position, but that's not the same as playing with no PG at all.

So you're defining the point guard as the one on the team making the most assists? So if Hawes has 5 assists per game next year and Evans 4.5, then Hawes becomes the point guard, the tallest in NBA history, and Evans becomes what? - by default a two-guard?

 

[fnordius]

So you're defining the point guard as the one on the team making the most assists? So if Hawes has 5 assists per game next year and Evans 4.5, then Hawes becomes the point guard, the tallest in NBA history, and Evans becomes what? - by default a two-guard?

If we're normally running the offense through Hawes, and he's the one seeing/creating openings and getting the ball to where it needs to go, then he will end up getting the most assists, as a reflection of that reality. And then I would have to call him our "point center," since we'd presumably still be calling him a C on our roster. Vlade would have been that if we'd lacked a real PG, like Roeland Schaftenaar of OSU is.

Magic Johnson was another good example, who was officially a g/f, but is listed in most references as a PG, because that's what the reality was, even though he was 6'9".

This got me to Google "point forward," where, lo and behold, Pippin is listed as an example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_forward

 

[bajaden]

If we're normally running the offense through Hawes, and he's the one seeing/creating openings and getting the ball to where it needs to go, then he will end up getting the most assists, as a reflection of that reality. And then I would have to call him our "point center," since we'd presumably still be calling him a C on our roster. Vlade would have been that if we'd lacked a real PG, like Roeland Schaftenaar of OSU is.

Magic Johnson was another good example, who was officially a g/f, but is listed in most references as a PG, because that's what the reality was, even though he was 6'9".

This got me to Google "point forward," where, lo and behold, Pippin is listed as an example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_forward

And thus the Triangle offense was born. Well almost. Yeah Pippen was almost as important to that team as Jordan was. Pippen basicly freed up Jordan. When you look at all the parts of that team, it was a strange team on paper. But it worked on the court, and thats all that mattered.

 

[USNAVY15]

PGs and SGs. Its not about title, its about which player is the floor general, and who does he guard and who guards him. Evans is being appointed "floor general" by Joe, Gavin, and by extension Petrie and Westphal. Usually the floor general is a PG(Chris Paul) or SG(Bradon Roy). So evans will fall under those terms. Now, who will be guarding him will determine his predominant position. On paper, Evans-Martin-Noc-THompson-Hawes, predominantly forces Evans to play PG.He might not be a PG, but for now, it appears he is one.

 

[fnordius]

Evans is being appointed "floor general" by Joe, Gavin, and by extension Petrie and Westphal.

When did that happen? Last I'd heard was this:

Paul Westphal could only chuckle when asked about Kings co-owner Gavin Maloof's statement during the Web cast of Monday's NBA Summer League game that rookie Tyreke Evans would be the starting point guard "as soon as he steps on the court."
Not so fast. Evans will be a big part of the Kings' plans this coming season. Westphal, however, hasn't committed to hand the team over to the prized rookie from Memphis.
"I read that too," Westphal said. "I think maybe Gavin might have gotten it mixed up with the regular season and summer league. … I haven't made any pronouncement like that."
Westphal didn't dismiss the idea Evans could be the starter as he's been impressive during the summer league....

"We certainly think that Tyreke has the ability to (start)," Westphal said. "He's the fourth player in the draft on a team that won 17 games; he's expected to contribute right away. But what that's going to look like has not been determined. I know that some people have had fun with that quote, but that was not my quote."

http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/2030161.html

 

[Kingster]

If we're normally running the offense through Hawes, and he's the one seeing/creating openings and getting the ball to where it needs to go, then he will end up getting the most assists, as a reflection of that reality. And then I would have to call him our "point center," since we'd presumably still be calling him a C on our roster. Vlade would have been that if we'd lacked a real PG, like Roeland Schaftenaar of OSU is.

Magic Johnson was another good example, who was officially a g/f, but is listed in most references as a PG, because that's what the reality was, even though he was 6'9".

This got me to Google "point forward," where, lo and behold, Pippin is listed as an example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_forward

Problem is, they don't define the point forward as the one making the most assists. They define him as the one bringing the ball up the floor and initiating the offense, which may or may not mean that he has the most assists. Vlade was not a point center under this definition. Nor Pippen. Hawes would not be a point center under this definition. If we are using those criteria for a "point" then it's very possible that Evans will be our point two-guard in the future. If he's unable to bring the ball up under pressure, then he won't be able to handle the point position. If he can't initiate the offense, then again, under this definition he will not be able to handle the point. I agree with that. A lot the disagreements on this board regarding true point guard/combo guard/point forward, whatever, are due to the fact that nobody is defining what they are talking about.

 

[NME]

From the bottom of the Index page:

"Welcome to our newest member, Tyreke>Kobe"

 

[fnordius]

Problem is, they don't define the point forward as the one making the most assists. They define him as the one bringing the ball up the floor and initiating the offense, which may or may not mean that he has the most assists. Vlade was not a point center under this definition. Nor Pippen.

Yeah, well, it's wikipedia. One editor says that you have to bring the ball up, while other editors list, as examples of point forwards, players who didn't. I don't think anyone can authoritatively define the position, since it has no official existence. I use a somewhat broad definition, since even then, you're only talking about a few percent of basketball players.

 

[Prince_XY]

From the bottom of the Index page:

"Welcome to our newest member, Tyreke>Kobe"

Great!

Now, we've got the "ultimate homer" for AM27 and Gary to argue with. It's becoming more exciting.

Wait. Are you sure it's not "Tyreke>Nash"?

 

[Chupacabra]

Great!

Now, we've got the "ultimate homer" for AM27 and Gary to argue with. It's becoming more exciting.

Wait. Are you sure it's not "Tyreke>Nash"?

I think he meant to make his name "Tyreke>CP3" but i definitely dig "Tyreke>Kobe"

 

[AriesMar27]

Great!

Now, we've got the "ultimate homer" for AM27 and Gary to argue with. It's becoming more exciting.

Wait. Are you sure it's not "Tyreke>Nash"?

he may be a homer but he thinks that evans is a sg unless he thinks that kobe is a pg. which i doubt.....

 

[Kingsguy881]

he may be a homer but he thinks that evans is a sg unless he thinks that kobe is a pg. which i doubt.....

I think he means as a PLAYER. What is it with you and that stupid debate, get over it, it won't be answered for at least 5 months! Are you the type of person that picks scabs, and repicks scabs, and picks and picks and picks until you bleed yourself into a scar? Geez. Simple, single minded pursuit.

 

[USNAVY15]

When did that happen? Last I'd heard was this:


http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/2030161.html

Don't beleive everything you read. NBA owners are all together when it comes to ticket sales. When Evans and the Kings go to Memphis against the Grizz, and their Arena is SOLD OUT. It doesn't take a minute to figure that they want to see Evans, and wouldn't mind seeing alot of him. If he is known to be the starter of the kings, well it would probably mean a few more ticket sales in memphis. It doesn't sound like alot of help to mulit-millionaires but starting Evans would help keep Sacramento in the black because more people are going to be buying his jersey if he looks like a mainstay. more people want tickets because Tyreke is entertaining them for 33 minutes a game. he doesn't need to play all 48 minutes, and he shouldn't. But, i wouldn't bet that he isn't the starter coming into the season. The kings need a player that draws, and at this moment in time, Evans is the only player that draws. When Napear announces the next game he is going to say "watch Evans and the kings take on the.....". Evans is starting based on the possibility that he draws more people to arco.

 

[gunks]

Evans can also step in and probably be AT LEAST our 3rd best player right out of the gates.

Of course thats more due to our sucky roster than Evans being an ultra-legit prospect.

I wont be surprised though if the in vogue arguement here at Kingsfans around april is "who is our best player? Kmart vs Evans"....Unless of course Hawes becomes a 20/9/4 C next season. But thats more of a longshot haha.

 

[Kingster]

Yeah, well, it's wikipedia. One editor says that you have to bring the ball up, while other editors list, as examples of point forwards, players who didn't. I don't think anyone can authoritatively define the position, since it has no official existence. I use a somewhat broad definition, since even then, you're only talking about a few percent of basketball players.

I agree there are various interpretions of the "point" position. But unless one defines it in a post, it just serves up more confusion in the responding posts. I'll stick with the definition noted above: a guy who can bring the ball up the court and set up the offense. Not necessarily the guy with the most assists on the team. If Tyreke can do those things, he'll be a functional point; if not, he won't, at least by my definition.

 

[fnordius]

Don't beleive everything you read. NBA owners are all together when it comes to ticket sales. When Evans and the Kings go to Memphis against the Grizz, and their Arena is SOLD OUT. It doesn't take a minute to figure that they want to see Evans, and wouldn't mind seeing alot of him. If he is known to be the starter of the kings, well it would probably mean a few more ticket sales in memphis.

If you're suggesting that the Maloofs care the tiniest bit about what ticket sales in Memphis will be for our one night there this season, I can't say that I agree. They don't get any of that money. They do have a nearly $10M drop in ticket sales to deal with; Arco dropped by 23% this last season, second only to the drop of the Nets (29%), so I'm sure that ticket sales at Arco are a VERY big deal as far as they're concerned.

However, having watched how prior Maloof intervention in the management of the team has gone, I'm hoping that they have learned their lesson, and will leave decision making to the professionals they hired and pay to make those decisions. Should I get the impression that they still think that they're the best people to make crucial decisions about the day-to-day running of the team, I will find other things (than closely following Kings games) to occupy my time this year. I follow the Kings and the NBA for fun and entertainment, but watching the owners force their decisions onto the franchise is about as fun as beating my head against a brick wall.

So, totally independent of the particular issue under discussion, I really hope that you're wrong, because my interest in watching a Maloof-run team is roughly the same as watching a Donald Sterling-run team... approximately zero.

 

[Prince_XY]

However, having watched how prior Maloof intervention in the management of the team has gone, I'm hoping that they have learned their lesson, and will leave decision making to the professionals they hired and pay to make those decisions. Should I get the impression that they still think that they're the best people to make crucial decisions about the day-to-day running of the team, I will find other things (than closely following Kings games) to occupy my time this year. I follow the Kings and the NBA for fun and entertainment, but watching the owners force their decisions onto the franchise is about as fun as beating my head against a brick wall.

So, totally independent of the particular issue under discussion, I really hope that you're wrong, because my interest in watching a Maloof-run team is roughly the same as watching a Donald Sterling-run team... approximately zero.

Other than speculations, we don't have a concrete evidence that the Maloofs were the ones who messed-up. The bottom line is that on paper Petrie was the one in charge of running the show, so the blame should rest on him.

 

[fnordius]

Other than speculations, we don't have a concrete evidence that the Maloofs were the ones who messed-up. The bottom line is that on paper Petrie was the one in charge of running the show, so the blame should rest on him.

Geoff's far from blameless, but I'm not going to try to foist everything off on him, either. The Maloofs were very involved in getting Artest and generally stalling the rebuild, had complete responsibility for letting Adelman go, and very nearly hired Whisenant as his replacement. (I credit Geoff with getting them to settle for the lesser evil of Muss.) Not to mention cost cutting moves that hurt the team a lot. Some of the time, yeah, it's speculation WRT who is really to blame. But the decisions that were most clearly the Maloofs' were also some of the very worst ones, and I can't name any example of their overruling Geoff which made things better. I don't think anyone can.

"We have to be heavily involved, because this decision is so important for the future of the franchise." -- Joe Maloof, May 2006, right after telling Adelman to take a hike

 

[VF21]

Other than speculations, we don't have a concrete evidence that the Maloofs were the ones who messed-up. The bottom line is that on paper Petrie was the one in charge of running the show, so the blame should rest on him.

Actually we do have pretty concrete proof, considering it was the Maloofs who first announced - prematurely - to ESPN (I think) that Ron Artest was a King... Peja learned of the impending trade from that broadcast.

The one thing that has changed recently is that it's been made pretty clear that Petrie is, in fact, running the show now. The Maloofs have stepped back, aren't as involved in the running of the team, and have made multiple public comments deferring to Petrie, something that happened rarely in the past.

 

[USNAVY15]

Lets put it this way.
1. Blake Griffin - Auto Starter
2. Hasheem Thabeet - Hard to say, approx. 50-50
3. James Harden - How could he not start?
4. Tyreke Evans- I will leave this one empty.
6. Johnny Flyn- Starter
7. Stephen Curry - probably not
8. Jordan Hill - probably not
9. Demar Derozan - Starter
10. Brandon Jennings- Starter
11. Terrence Williams- Starter
12. Gerald Henderson - 50/50

Point being, Tyreke evans is in the lottery and 6/12 are starters if we take an empirical look at things. Evans, without taking into account how high he was picked and how good he appears to be, has a 50 % chance of being a starter. Taking into account he is in the top 4 of the draft, and has superstud written on him since he was a youngster; it would be fair to say that the Kings would like him to start. and it would serve in the best interest of the team to move his progression along as quickly as possible. Don't take my word for it. Just look at the odds when you factor in all the variables. i would say its about 88% that he starts.

 

[Prince_XY]

Geoff's far from blameless, but I'm not going to try to foist everything off on him, either. The Maloofs were very involved in getting Artest and generally stalling the rebuild, had complete responsibility for letting Adelman go, and very nearly hired Whisenant as his replacement. (I credit Geoff with getting them to settle for the lesser evil of Muss.) Not to mention cost cutting moves that hurt the team a lot. Some of the time, yeah, it's speculation WRT who is really to blame. But the decisions that were most clearly the Maloofs' were also some of the very worst ones, and I can't name any example of their overruling Geoff which made things better. I don't think anyone can.

"We have to be heavily involved, because this decision is so important for the future of the franchise." -- Joe Maloof, May 2006, right after telling Adelman to take a hike

I don't see any "CONCRETE PROOF" of the Maloofs making the sole decision on any of the things you mentioned here. Review what you typed and you'll find out that they are all speculations. The Maloofs being very involved in their own business does not necessarily mean Petrie didn't have a hand on the decisions committed.

Also, speaking for Petrie in the case of Adelman might have been done to save Petrie a face in the eyes of Adelman. Do you really expect Petrie to have had the guts to tell his friend Adelman that he wants him fired?

 

[Prince_XY]

Actually we do have pretty concrete proof, considering it was the Maloofs who first announced - prematurely - to ESPN (I think) that Ron Artest was a King... Peja learned of the impending trade from that broadcast.

The one thing that has changed recently is that it's been made pretty clear that Petrie is, in fact, running the show now. The Maloofs have stepped back, aren't as involved in the running of the team, and have made multiple public comments deferring to Petrie, something that happened rarely in the past.

If announcing the Artest/Peja trade prematurely is concrete enough evidence for you that it was the Maloofs deciding alone on that trade, so be it.

I guess that Gavin defending the Evans pick may also mean it was only the Maloofs who wanted Evans and Petrie does not have anything to do with it, especially if it turns out later that Evans is a bust. And yeah, we can consider that too as concrete evidence that the Maloofs are not being involved that much lately.

So, which is which?

 

[bajaden]

I don't see any "CONCRETE PROOF" of the Maloofs making the sole decision on any of the things you mentioned here. Review what you typed and you'll find out that they are all speculations. The Maloofs being very involved in their own business does not necessarily mean Petrie didn't have a hand on the decisions committed.

Also, speaking for Petrie in the case of Adelman might have been done to save Petrie a face in the eyes of Adelman. Do you really expect Petrie to have had the guts to tell his friend Adelman that he wants him fired?

If you believe that Petrie wanted to fire Adelman, then you know nothing of his past history. Petrie walked away from his job in Portland because they fired Adelman against his wishes. They are close friends, and though some can nit pic some of Adelman's decisions, such as starting Webber after the injury, there was really no reason to fire the man. The Maloof's made no secret of the fact that they didn't get along with Adelman. It was their decision, plain and simple.

Yes Petrie is paid to take the heat for the organization. Thats whether he actually makes the decision or not. But there is a difference between taking the heat and actually being the one responsible. The Maloof's have been able to hide behind Petrie until this year. He's in the last year of his contract. They offered him a multiyear extension and he turned it down for the present. This is just my opinion, but I believe this was a statement by Petrie to the Maloof's to let me run this team my way, or I'm out of here.

I believe that Petrie is the longest tenured GM in the league. He wouldn't have a problem getting a job somewhere else if he wanted to leave. He's not perfect by any means, but he's certainly one of the better GM's in the league. His main problem is that he's just not as sexy as some of the others, and he doesn't create any news for those of us just sitting here waiting for any rumor to feast on.

 

[bajaden]

If announcing the Artest/Peja trade prematurely is concrete enough evidence for you that it was the Maloofs deciding alone on that trade, so be it.

I guess that Gavin defending the Evans pick may also mean it was only the Maloofs who wanted Evans and Petrie does not have anything to do with it, especially if it turns out later that Evans is a bust. And yeah, we can consider that too as concrete evidence that the Maloofs are not being involved that much lately.

So, which is which?

If you were in the jury pool for a trial you would never make it to the jury. Why you ask? Its called having your mind made up in advance. Doesn't matter which way, one or the other, the defense or prosecution would excuse you, unless you lied of course.

You have to apply logic to this equation. Look at Petrie's past history, especially before the Maloof's came onto the scene, and then shortly there after. Petrie has always been loyal to his own picks, and Peja was one of the more controversial ones. Petrie was booed when he announced the pick. No one had even heard of Peja. Petrie also leaned hard toward players that played in an unselfish manner. Artest hardly fell into that catagory. Add to that, the Maloof's announcing the trade instead of Petire, it was obvious that they wanted credit for it.

As far as the Evans pick. That was all Petrie and his scouting staff. I don't beleive that the Maloof's have interfered with Petrie and the draft. For that I give him full responsiblity. I sincerely doubt for example, that the Maloof's suggested drafting Douby, any more than they suggested drafting Martin. I do believe that the Maloof's wanted to hang on to the glory days a little too long, and forced Petrie to make decisions that perhaps he wouldn't have made if it were just left up to him. I have no proof of that. Its just speculation on my part. But whether you like Petrie or not, he's not a stupid man. He does know basketball, and knows when a team is on the way down.

If the majority of the fans on this fourm can see that the team needs to start rebuilding, does anyone believe that Petrie couldn't see it. Yes I know some of you do believe that. After having said all of this, I'm by no means implying that the Maloof's are bad owners. They've been very good owners except for sticking their hands in places better left alone. They have been willing to spend money and make improvments. They've donated money and time to charities in sacramento. And I would lend no credence to those rumors that they intentionally ran down the team so they could more easily move it. That would be like cutting off your nose despite your face. Yeah, I'm going to run down the team, and lose 15 to 20 million in revenue's just so I can move somewhere else.

This team went from a shoestring owner (God bless him for bringing the team here) and a clueless league appointed GM that singlehandedly destroyed the future of the team for 10 years, to what we have today. It may not be perfect, but its still not all that bad either..

 

[Capt. Factorial]

If you were in the jury pool for a trial you would never make it to the jury. Why you ask? Its called having your mind made up in advance. Doesn't matter which way, one or the other, the defense or prosecution would excuse you, unless you lied of course.

I disagree. Prince_XY is simply stating that circumstantial evidence of Maloof involvement (Maloofs prematurely announce trade) does not constitute concrete evidence that the Maloofs directed that the trade occur.

It's perfectly likely that Petrie drew up the trade, as team owners the Maloofs knew about the upcoming (but not quite finalized) trade, got excited (is there much doubt the Maloofs are excitable?), and blabbed to ESPN. And nowhere in that scenario are the Maloofs pulling the strings, though they do have inside information we would expect them to have.

I don't think Prince_XY has demonstrated that his mind is made up at all -- rather, he doesn't want to jump to a conclusion not warranted by the evidence at hand. Seems like a good quality for a juror to me .

 

[NME]

I guess that Gavin defending the Evans pick may also mean it was only the Maloofs who wanted Evans and Petrie does not have anything to do with it, especially if it turns out later that Evans is a bust. And yeah, we can consider that too as concrete evidence that the Maloofs are not being involved that much lately.

The anecdotal evidence is more that the Maloofs went into the predraft period hyped up on Rubio, and Petrie had to make a persuasive case to them on the merits of Evans. He was pretty effective based on Gavin's manic presentation.

 

[Prince_XY]

If you believe that Petrie wanted to fire Adelman, then you know nothing of his past history. Petrie walked away from his job in Portland because they fired Adelman against his wishes. They are close friends, and though some can nit pic some of Adelman's decisions, such as starting Webber after the injury, there was really no reason to fire the man. The Maloof's made no secret of the fact that they didn't get along with Adelman. It was their decision, plain and simple.

Yes Petrie is paid to take the heat for the organization. Thats whether he actually makes the decision or not. But there is a difference between taking the heat and actually being the one responsible. The Maloof's have been able to hide behind Petrie until this year. He's in the last year of his contract. They offered him a multiyear extension and he turned it down for the present. This is just my opinion, but I believe this was a statement by Petrie to the Maloof's to let me run this team my way, or I'm out of here.

I believe that Petrie is the longest tenured GM in the league. He wouldn't have a problem getting a job somewhere else if he wanted to leave. He's not perfect by any means, but he's certainly one of the better GM's in the league. His main problem is that he's just not as sexy as some of the others, and he doesn't create any news for those of us just sitting here waiting for any rumor to feast on.

Thanks for giving more speculations. They certainly help boost my case.

Petrie walking away from his previous job in Portland because his friend Adelman got fired more than explained the possibility that it was the Maloofs extending help to Petrie when they announced the firing of Adelman here in Sacramento.

I can actually offer you a better speculation of what really transpired:

Petrie: " Joe, I have a problem. I don't think Rick fits this team now. I want to fire him, but I can't tell him, because he is such a very nice friend. I think you guys know our history in Portland, right?"

Joe: " No problem, if you think he no longer fits, then just fire him for the sake of my business. I'll take the blame. "

This is why Petrie was able to save face. He didn't have to leave Sacramento Kings for firing Adelman.