Perspective on Tyreke Evans

[AriesMar27]

i dont think anyone dislikes or hates evans, i dont... some of us just dont see him as a pg. its the pro-evans posters like chupacabra who starts this anti-evans/pro-evans nonsense...

i was pro rubio because he was arguably the best pg in the draft and we needed a pg but passed on him for a potentially really good player that isnt really a pg but a sg that can play pg.

evans might become a great player one day, all kings fans should hope that he does reach his potential... but some of us just dont see that happening at pg. some of you pro-evans people need to get a ****ing grip and chill out.

but back to the topic of kobe guarding evans, it shouldnt be that hard for kobe all he has to do is dare evans to shoot from long range. fisher wont do it because he isnt quick enough to recover if/when evans drives by him. farmar doesnt play defense unless its the passing lanes. but you would think that with artest on the team the lakers would have evans and kevin more or less shutdown. fisher can guard nocioni or garcia until they realize that they can just shoot over him...

 

[ForlornKing]

I am going to predict the future and end all this Evans isn't a 1 nonsense right now!




TYREKE EVANS WILL MAKE OTHER PLAYERS BETTER.



Bigs are gonna have to come off of Jason and Spenser to help stop Tyreke and I see many dishes to Jason for midrange jumpers and Jason slashing from the midrange beating the slower 4 that is guarding him.

 

[fnordius]

I've noticed some posters here, Chupacabra among them, share my belief that we need a defensive big, and that there's really no substitute for having one. That doesn't mean that we hate Hawes, just that we think that the lack of a certain type of player will hold the team back. I feel the similarly about the PG role, at least with the roster we have right now.

That about sums it up.

 

[VF21]

i dont think anyone dislikes or hates evans, i dont... some of us just dont see him as a pg. its the pro-evans posters like chupacabra who starts this anti-evans/pro-evans nonsense...

i was pro rubio because he was arguably the best pg in the draft and we needed a pg but passed on him for a potentially really good player that isnt really a pg but a sg that can play pg.

evans might become a great player one day, all kings fans should hope that he does reach his potential... but some of us just dont see that happening at pg. some of you pro-evans people need to get a ****ing grip and chill out.

but back to the topic of kobe guarding evans, it shouldnt be that hard for kobe all he has to do is dare evans to shoot from long range. fisher wont do it because he isnt quick enough to recover if/when evans drives by him. farmar doesnt play defense unless its the passing lanes. but you would think that with artest on the team the lakers would have evans and kevin more or less shutdown. fisher can guard nocioni or garcia until they realize that they can just shoot over him...

There's room for a full range of opinions around here without resorting to the types of comments highlighted above.

 

[VF21]

The anti-evans sentiment is strong. Why would you hate on your own players? Ill never understand it. I get the feeling some people cant except that the FO thought Evans was better than Rubio.

And just like my comment to AriesMar27 above, the people who aren't enamored of Evans are just as entitled to their opinions.

 

[Prince_XY]

I like the hype around this kid. But at 19, he is probably thinking he is invincible. I was there, and i know how stupid one can be at 19. I think he needs to be a PG because if we thrust him into a game where Kobe is guarding him and the other way around, he might get the bright idea that he is on the same level as "taking over this game" Kobe Bryant. The last thing i want to see in Evans drawing too much contact and taking a bad spill or something of that nature. If he is groomed to pass first, he might grow and mature before he gets the bright idea to take on the other team by himself. knockon wood.

I hope you are right that this Kid feels he is invincible at 19. Because if he clearly is ( talent and accomplishment-wise ) similar to Lebron, Wade, Carmelo, and Iverson at such a young age, then I want him to stay feeling invincible for the sake of the team. We never had one player like this kid for the past years, and now that we got one, the last thing I want to do is discourage that very important trait that he has. That was how a Dwane Wade, Iverson, or a Lebron James, and to a certain extent Kobe was made. You don't discourage players from having that swagger, especially if he is equipped with the necessary skill to do so.

Nevermind the injuries. Put this notion of injuries to a player's head and you'll end up with a lazy, lackkluster, softie player on your team. I would rather have players who would draw so much contact at both ends of the floor ( Kobe and Howard ), than a player like Martin ( and sometimes Hawes ) who avoid contact at one end.

If we don't want our "little-baby" Evans taking a bad spill, then I suggest we let him play CHESS instead of basketball.

 

[Kingsguy881]

"The Kings need a point guard, but more than that they need a dominant player. They lost so many close games last season because they didn't have one. Now, I think they have one."

This is a quote from a writer who did an article on the Pacific Division winners and losers. I think this sums up how most people feel about Evans and why they could care less about what position he actually ends up being "called".

 

[fnordius]

"The Kings need a point guard, but more than that they need a dominant player. They lost so many close games last season because they didn't have one. Now, I think they have one."

This is a quote from a writer who did an article on the Pacific Division winners and losers. I think this sums up how most people feel about Evans and why they could care less about what position he actually ends up being "called".

More from the same blogger:

Disclaimer: I’m an unabashed Kings fan. Take what I say in this section with a grain of salt.

Tyreke Evans is the truth! He’s the greatest pick in the history of the league! The LeBron James of guards! I can’t believe what a steal this was. The Maloofs are geniuses! Geniuses!

Tyreke’s not ordinary. He’s going to turn everything around! He’s a miracle worker, baby! He’s like the Mother Teresa of NBA basketball! He’s going to increase jersey sales, bring fans back to Arco Arena, win Rookie of the Year, and lead the Kings back to the playoffs! All in one day. One day! And after he’s done with that, he’s going to bring Beno Udrih back to life!

Then, on the seventh day, he will rest.

Think that was over the top?

 

[Kingsguy881]

More from the same blogger:

Ok, so we know he is a Kings fan. But seriously, he is an "expert" in that he covers the league and knows basketball. He made up that first part to show how excited he is about Evans. Somebody who knows, follows, and dissects basketball is over the top excited about Evans. Why would Joe Lunchbucket who has only been following basketball the last decade or so bash Evans?

So obviously in the first part he was being facetious. But you forgot to include the part where he offers his "expert" opinion. I'll let the other readers pull up the report and read it for themselves....

http://davissportsdeli.com/wordpress/2009/08/10/nba-offseason-grades-2009-pacific-division/

 

[bajaden]

More from the same blogger:

I gotta take you to task on this one Fnordius. I read the same Blog and what you took was out of context. It was done in jest, which he admits before and after he made the statement. If anything he was taking a shot at all the people that really believe that statement. Not that he's not a fan of Evans and does't believe some of it.

I never even thought of posting the blog because he admits that he biased. We already have enough of those here already. Myself included..

 

[Jerryaki]

Why would Joe Lunchbucket who has only been following basketball the last decade or so bash Evans?

HA! i'm going to use that from now on instead of Joe Schmoe.

 

[HighTopKicks]

Could MJ have played PG? I think so. Now, I'm not saying Evans is MJ caliber yet, but he could be some day.

Jordan didn't have great PG's. They could shot the 3 but none we're great off the dibble or finishers around the rim. Mid to long range jumpshooters with average ball handling skills and the ability to play defense.

One reason Jordan didn't play PG is that he would have had to guard the PG. As the closer and primary scorer, guarding the PG would have taken too much energy and hurt him at the end of the game when the Bulls needed him to score.

Evans isn't going to be the primary scorer, Martin is, at least for a few years. So as long as Evans is young and isn't asked to do too much, I don't see him running out of gas at the end of games. Playing the PG will escalate the development of his ballhandling skill which are adequate for now. With Martin, Noc, Cisco, & Hawes around to shoot the 3, he has time to work on his shooting, but for now his midrange jumper is adequate. So, as long as he can defend the 1, then he can play the 1 at least until a better PG comes along. Or, until he does become the next MJ, in which case we won't need a better PG just an adequate one.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Could MJ have played PG? I think so. Now, I'm not saying Evans is MJ caliber yet, but he could be some day.

Jordan didn't have great PG's. They could shot the 3 but none we're great off the dibble or finishers around the rim. Mid to long range jumpshooters with average ball handling skills and the ability to play defense.

One reason Jordan didn't play PG is that he would have had to guard the PG. As the closer and primary scorer, guarding the PG would have taken too much energy and hurt him at the end of the game when the Bulls needed him to score.

Evans isn't going to be the primary scorer, Martin is, at least for a few years. So as long as Evans is young and isn't asked to do too much, I don't see him running out of gas at the end of games. Playing the PG will escalate the development of his ballhandling skill which are adequate for now. With Martin, Noc, Cisco, & Hawes around to shoot the 3, he has time to work on his shooting, but for now his midrange jumper is adequate. So, as long as he can defend the 1, then he can play the 1 at least until a better PG comes along. Or, until he does become the next MJ, in which case we won't need a better PG just an adequate one.

Great analogy, and to take it one step further: who was the primary ball handler on the Bulls? Jordan. Was he the pg? No. Did he play like the pg on offense? Yes.

not saying Evans is Jordan, there is only one Jordan. Just pointing out the fact that you don't have to be a "true PG" to run the offense and be successful at it.

BTW, I know it has been harped on, but the posters who have been excited about what Evans will potentially bring to the team are happy to have a player who can close games, who we can put the ball in his hands and expect that either a high percentage shot will be gotten or a trip to the foul line is in order.

Who on this team (pre Evans) could create his own shot off the dribble? Not Martin, Cisco (Mr. Offensive Foul himself), Beno, Thompson, Hawes, Nocioni. The last person the Kings had was Mike Bibby, and he wasn't the best closer/finisher in the league but he could get off a jumper, usually. I wouldn't even count Salmons because he was 50/50 in getting off a shot. Now you have Evans, who, if he can't create a shot for himself which is highly unlikely, he can get a teammate an open look due to his creativity and court vision.

If you drafted somebody else (I won't even say his name) then you have someone who can create a shot for his teammates but is not a threat to score himself. How big is that down the stretch of ball games? I'd take Evans 105 times out of 100 over "someone else", I don't care how well "someone else" fits the mold of a certain position. Evans will win more games.

What's more important, more wins or a team where everyone is true to their position?

 

[Superman]

Could MJ have played PG? I think so. Now, I'm not saying Evans is MJ caliber yet, but he could be some day.

One reason Jordan didn't play PG is that he would have had to guard the PG. As the closer and primary scorer, guarding the PG would have taken too much energy and hurt him at the end of the game when the Bulls needed him to score.

Spent a good part of the '95-'96 season defending point guards, and the Bulls did nothing but set an NBA record by going 72-10, blazed through the playoffs only losing three games, and saw Jordan win his fourth MVP.

Or, until he does become the next MJ, in which case we won't need a better PG just an adequate one.

 

[fnordius]

I never even thought of posting the blog because he admits that he biased. We already have enough of those here already. Myself included..

Yeah, that was all I was trying to point out, that he was a blogger who is an ardent Kings fan, rather than a more neutral (or professional) party. I'd have just linked to the post, rather than quote that stuff, except that every link to a blog I've ever posted has been deleted, and I wasn't feeling lucky.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the guy's opinions, he's a serious fan like many posters here. For that matter he may BE one of us, I'm sure he's not really "oldenpolynice."

 

[Rug King]

The Kings desperatly need a go-to guy to close out games. We had nothing and when the game was on the line we could only hope to get lucky. I hope Tyreke will be that guy.

 

[HighTopKicks]

Spent a good part of the '95-'96 season defending point guards, and the Bulls did nothing but set an NBA record by going 72-10, blazed through the playoffs only losing three games, and saw Jordan win his fourth MVP.

Granted after his return from baseball, the main starters were Jordan, Pippen, Harper, Longley, & Rodman. But, Kerr played between 22-25mpg during the '95-'96, '96-'97, and '97-'98 seasons. Plus Randy Brown averaged around 14-15mpg during that time. They both defended the PG when they came in and Jordan moved to the SG on defense. Neither Kerr or Brown averaged more than 2.4 asssists per game, but were deadly shooters. Pippen was the lead assign man most of the time. In 95, Kerr averaged over 50% from the field and from 3pt range.

But, technically I'm not sure they stayed in any fixed assignments. Pippen was the equal to Jordan on defense, and Harper wasn't far behind so they could switch alot. At the end of games it was more of a swarming defense. The name we had for it was "Letting the dogs out". For the last 5-8 minutes of the game, the defense got so tight teams wouldn't be able to score, then Jordan would finish at the other end and the Bulls would pull away or close the gap for the win.

 

[bajaden]

Yeah, that was all I was trying to point out, that he was a blogger who is an ardent Kings fan, rather than a more neutral (or professional) party. I'd have just linked to the post, rather than quote that stuff, except that every link to a blog I've ever posted has been deleted, and I wasn't feeling lucky.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the guy's opinions, he's a serious fan like many posters here. For that matter he may BE one of us, I'm sure he's not really "oldenpolynice."

I think I saw Oldenpolynice here in Ensenada the other night in a police car. Well, I think it was a police car..

 

[AriesMar27]

Granted after his return from baseball, the main starters were Jordan, Pippen, Harper, Longley, & Rodman. But, Kerr played between 22-25mpg during the '95-'96, '96-'97, and '97-'98 seasons. Plus Randy Brown averaged around 14-15mpg during that time. They both defended the PG when they came in and Jordan moved to the SG on defense. Neither Kerr or Brown averaged more than 2.4 asssists per game, but were deadly shooters. Pippen was the lead assign man most of the time. In 95, Kerr averaged over 50% from the field and from 3pt range.

But, technically I'm not sure they stayed in any fixed assignments. Pippen was the equal to Jordan on defense, and Harper wasn't far behind so they could switch alot. At the end of games it was more of a swarming defense. The name we had for it was "Letting the dogs out". For the last 5-8 minutes of the game, the defense got so tight teams wouldn't be able to score, then Jordan would finish at the other end and the Bulls would pull away or close the gap for the win.

short of us trading martin for lebron or kobe i dont see how this applies to evans playing pg. he would need the greatest player in nba history playing sg next to him in order for him to have an average career like steve kerr. or am i missing something? because jordan was a sg, he could play pg... he could play sf.... but he was a sg, there is no denying that. so what was the point of bringing up jordan and his bulls teams when talking about tyreke playing pg?

maybe i misread something.

 

[Kingsguy881]

short of us trading martin for lebron or kobe i dont see how this applies to evans playing pg. he would need the greatest player in nba history playing sg next to him in order for him to have an average career like steve kerr. or am i missing something? because jordan was a sg, he could play pg... he could play sf.... but he was a sg, there is no denying that. so what was the point of bringing up jordan and his bulls teams when talking about tyreke playing pg?

maybe i misread something.

I will see if I can help you draw a conclusion from what he posted.

Jordan was a sg. Yet he was the primary ball handler and the pg's that played next to him were generally shooters (ie. BJ Armstrong, Randy Brown, Steve Kerr) [Kevin Martin]. Jordan generally avg'd more assists than those "pg's" and brought the ball up court the majority of the time, so he in essence WAS the pg but was called the sg [Evans]. The Bulls were very successfull [see 6 rings in 8 years] without having WHAT YOU WANT in a true, pass first pg. They had a closer [Evans], whom they could give the ball to when the game was on the line [not Rubio] who could either score the rock or find Kerr on the wing for the game winning shot against Phoenix [sorry, I had to use an actual example].

Does that provide a little more enlightenment?

 

[Kingsgurl]

Ah, the ever entertaining off season. When else can you compare draft picks who haven't stepped foot on the court with NBA legends in all seriousness (unless, of course, it's the 26th draft pick, then you get ridiculed for even entertaining the idea they might just be able to play)
I love feeling optimistic

Is it October yet?

 

[HighTopKicks]

I will see if I can help you draw a conclusion from what he posted.

Jordan was a sg. Yet he was the primary ball handler and the pg's that played next to him were generally shooters (ie. BJ Armstrong, Randy Brown, Steve Kerr) [Kevin Martin]. Jordan generally avg'd more assists than those "pg's" and brought the ball up court the majority of the time, so he in essence WAS the pg but was called the sg [Evans]. The Bulls were very successfull [see 6 rings in 8 years] without having WHAT YOU WANT in a true, pass first pg. They had a closer [Evans], whom they could give the ball to when the game was on the line [not Rubio] who could either score the rock or find Kerr on the wing for the game winning shot against Phoenix [sorry, I had to use an actual example].

Does that provide a little more enlightenment?

Yes, that's the point I was trying to make. Call him a SG or PG or Combo G or anything you want because labels don't matter. There's no rule that says we can't start 2 SG's. GSW will probably start 2 PG's. And, as the Bulls & Jordan example pointed out there's no rule that says you have to put the ball in the hands of a Pass First Guard either.

I'll start worrying about Evans if he can't beat out Beno for the starting job.

 

[AriesMar27]

so basically you guys are saying that evans is a sg who will pass the ball? keep in mind just because it worked for the goat doesnt mean that it will work for evans. lebron tried playing pg and failed but he still manages to average more assists than his pg. yet his team wasnt really a contender until the cavs got a real pg. a trigger happy pg but one that can run an offense.

unless evans somehow turns out to be as good as lebron or kobe(mj is the best) i dont see how that is going to work. unless evans is the primary scorer and can pick when to score and when to pass. if he is 2nd option, he wont have the freedom that mj had or lebron/kobe has today. look at joe johnson in atl, they didnt get to the playoffs until they got a real pg, a trigger happy pg but one that can run an offense.... there arent any other current sg/sf in the nba that do what you guys are describing. well wade but his team didnt make much noise in the playoffs because of their weakness at pg oddly enough.

pure pg or not, evans will have to be one hell of a player to make up for the fact that he is being asked to be a pg when he isnt one. even by our own(you guys, not me) inflated standards. couldnt you guys at least use a player that played pg as an example? of all the players in nba history you choose to use jordan as an example of how to play and win without a pure pg.

based on what you guys are trying to say is that you want to bring martins scoring down from 24ppg to 12ppg(like kerr and mj's pgs) and evans can somehow average 30ppg and 6ast just so we wont need a pure pg like rubio. that or you expect evans to become a knockdown 3pt shooter and martin becomes and elite sg like kobe.

 

[fnordius]

I will see if I can help you draw a conclusion from what he posted.

Jordan was a sg. Yet he was the primary ball handler and the pg's that played next to him were generally shooters (ie. BJ Armstrong, Randy Brown, Steve Kerr) [Kevin Martin]. Jordan generally avg'd more assists than those "pg's" and brought the ball up court the majority of the time, so he in essence WAS the pg but was called the sg [Evans]. The Bulls were very successfull [see 6 rings in 8 years] without having WHAT YOU WANT in a true, pass first pg. They had a closer [Evans], whom they could give the ball to when the game was on the line [not Rubio] who could either score the rock or find Kerr on the wing for the game winning shot against Phoenix [sorry, I had to use an actual example].

Does that provide a little more enlightenment?

You're failing to give Scottie Pippin the credit he deserves. From 1989 to 1999, he averaged close to 6 assists per game. Pippin was, in essence, their PG. If we had someone like that, and the young MJ, we'd be in dandy shape. But without that 6-assist guy, or a couple of 5-assist guys like CWebb and Vlade, it doesn't work.

You can do fine with someone who is playing PG from a different position, but that's not the same as playing with no PG at all.

 

[Chupacabra]

Just think, the best way to attack the defense is to attack the basket. Evans is superb at this. The guy you want to have the ball the most is either your best player or your point guard. Evans is the point guard. Evans is most effective when he has the ball in his hands. Guards usually have the hardest time scoring against taller, longer players. Evans is taller and has REALLY long arms. On top of that advantage hes already touted as a good defensive player. With Tyreke driving into the paint all day the backline of the defense is going to have to step up and help. All Evans has to do is make an easy dump off pass to the bigmen or an easy kickout to a shooter. Simple passes which hes shown fair ability to make.

 

[AriesMar27]

Yes, that's the point I was trying to make. Call him a SG or PG or Combo G or anything you want because labels don't matter. There's no rule that says we can't start 2 SG's.

tell that to the sixers, nuggets and pistons... or ask any gm in the nba why they havent signed iverson to a vet minimum contract yet?

pf and c are interchangeable, so is sg and sf... but pg is a totally different beast. pg's are born not made.... often imitated but never duplicated.

how many teams have started two sg's with a score first mentality? how many have been good teams? i cant think of a team that has except for iversons last 2 teams.... denver with iverson and smith and detroit with iverson and hamilton and you saw how it worked out in detroit, rip didnt want to come off the bench and neither did iverson. the crazy part is that both denver and detroit were better off with billups who is a real pg. sort of.... well he can run an offense and know when to score or pass...

 

[Chupacabra]

tell that to the sixers, nuggets and pistons... or ask any gm in the nba why they havent signed iverson to a vet minimum contract yet?

pf and c are interchangeable, so is sg and sf... but pg is a totally different beast. pg's are born not made.... often imitated but never duplicated.

how many teams have started two sg's with a score first mentality? how many have been good teams? i cant think of a team that has except for iversons last 2 teams.... denver with iverson and smith/jones and detroit with iverson and hamilton and you saw how it worked out in detroit, rip didnt want to come off the bench and neither did iverson.

The Wizards did this back when they had Larry Hughes. They were good they just lacked depth. Unless you want to argue that Arenas is really a point guard. I disagree with point guards being born and not made. Almost all players are made. Some guys are born with gifted athleticism, but all players are made into what they are throughout their lives. Jason Kidd didnt come out of the womb slinging behind the back passes everywhere, he had to hone the craft.

 

[AriesMar27]

The Wizards did this back when they had Larry Hughes. They were good they just lacked depth. Unless you want to argue that Arenas is really a point guard. I disagree with point guards being born and not made. Almost all players are made. Some guys are born with gifted athleticism, but all players are made into what they are throughout their lives. Jason Kidd didnt come out of the womb slinging behind the back passes everywhere, he had to hone the craft.

im sure kidd came out of the womb and tossed the umbllical to the nurse for the easy basket.... he grew up tossing dimes, thats all he knows how to do. thats why he has always been a great pg, there is no mistaking his position. purest of pure pgs....

arenas is more of a pg than he is given credit for... he is the ultimate scoring pg. he likes to jack up shots but he can run an offense. but for the sake of argument i dont think he's ever seen the 2nd round so i dont know how well that helps for your argument. a .500 team that loses in the first round isnt exactly the best situation if you guys are trying to prove that evans was the right pick for this team.

though i would be so happy if we ended up being 41-41 and actually made the playoffs. that would be cool.

 

[SacTownKid]

This guy must be the real deal, Tyreke has a rare body for someone coming into the league at only 19.


After watching that I think we found our nickname for Treke! The "Blueprint"!! hahaha. That stuck out to me, it sounds like they created the kid in a freaking laboratory or something!

 

[Bricklayer]

The Wizards did this back when they had Larry Hughes. They were good they just lacked depth. Unless you want to argue that Arenas is really a point guard. I disagree with point guards being born and not made. Almost all players are made. Some guys are born with gifted athleticism, but all players are made into what they are throughout their lives. Jason Kidd didnt come out of the womb slinging behind the back passes everywhere, he had to hone the craft.

PGs are born.

Or at least grown early. The isntincts are either there, or not. The exceptions are very very rare. Actually am I thinking of like one guy: Billups. Who actually still doesn;t have great creativity, but is a lot better than when he started. But you either have that court vision or you don't. You either have that mentality or you don't. Now if you are a willing pupil you can be taught the basics, be taught the machanics of the pick and roll etc., and indeed from what I saw of Tyreke in summer league it looked like he had been taught the basic mechanics and could handle the PG 101. But you don't learn the instincts. You don't learnt he vision. You are "born" with it. There are a few basketball skills that are that way. Passing/court vision, shot blocking, rebounding (with the provisio that rebounding can sometimes pick up a bit as guys grow into their body). Things you either have the innate ability to perform, or you don't.