Peja: "The New Chris Webber"

[Purple Reign]

One of the biggest complaints when Webber was a member of the Kings was how much better the team played when he was not there.

Since November 20th, the Kings are 4-11 when Peja Stojakovic is in the lineup. They are 4-1 when he is not in the lineup

They score 107.8 in that 4-1 record without peja
They score 97.8 in the 4-11 record with Peja

In his last 15 games, the Kings have shot an amazing .472 compared to shooting .466 without Peja. However in those 15 games Peja is only shooting .394

I could go on with a lot more statistics but you get the point. Is there any corelation or just a coincidence?

 

[Padrino]

One of the biggest complaints when Webber was a member of the Kings was how much better the team played when he was not there.

Since November 20th, the Kings are 4-11 when Peja Stojakovic is in the lineup. They are 4-1 when he is not in the lineup

They score 107.8 in that 4-1 record without peja
They score 97.8 in the 4-11 record with Peja

In his last 15 games, the Kings have shot an amazing .472 compared to shooting .466 without Peja. However in those 15 games Peja is only shooting .394

I could go on with a lot more statistics but you get the point. Is there any corelation or just a coincidence?

you're so very close. there is a correlation. it is certainly no coincidence, and it is exactly the opposite of the "webber situation." when webber returned, he resumed his role as leader and number one scoring option. whatever one's opinion is on that matter is irrelevant. webber came back to play. simple as that. peja stojakovic, on the other hand, in his contract year, has decided it would be more pertinent to coast to a paycheck rather than earn a more substantial one. he's playing more soft and is more unsure of himself than ever. he's completely lacking in passion and motivation. this, in turn, is bringing the team down. as long as peja continues to average 40 empty minutes a night, the team is going to suffer. it's not really a matter of statistics. it's simple logic.

 

[Bricklayer]

Given what a load of patooty I considered that whole simplistic Webber bashing bit, I would be a more than a bit of a hypocrite if I accepted this line of reasoning now, especially off of a five game sample size. We've already done the "let's get rid of the talented player for trash and go for addition by subtraction" thing once and we are in danger of falling off the basketball map as a result.

I do think Peja should be moved for a better and cheaper piece who's heart is in it. I do not believe after 7 years on very high scoring teams that he has suddenly uncloaked himself as some sort of poisonous plant destructive to a team's offense. In fact I suspect that our record might be better without just about ANY of our starting 5, simply because it frees up shots and roles for the others. Take away Reef and leave Peja, and we win more too. And outside of Bonzi, who might be special because of his hustle game, the same would apply to the other starters as well if we only had reasonable backups for them. Peja may be sucking his way right out of town finally, but its the structure of the team that is broken more than anythign Peja himself is doing.

 

[Padrino]

Given what a load of patooty I considered that whole simplistic Webber bashing bit, I would be a more than a bit of a hypocrite if I accepted this line of reasoning now, especially off of a five game sample size. We've already done the "let's get rid of the talented player for trash and go for addition by subtraction" thing once and we are in danger of falling off the basketball map as a result.

I do think Peja should be moved for a better and cheaper piece who's heart is in it. I do not believe after 7 years on very high scoring teams that he has suddenly uncloaked himself as some sort of poisonous plant destructive to a team's offense. In fact I suspect that our record might be better without just about ANY of our starting 5, simply because it frees up shots and roles for the others. Take away Reef and leave Peja, and we win more too. And outside of Bonzi, who might be special because of his hustle game, the same would apply to the other starters as well if we only had reasonable backups for them. Peja may be sucking his way right out of town finally, but its the structure of the team that is broken more than anythign Peja himself is doing.

can i get an amen!!!

 

[CaminoChaos]

Not only that, but think of the possetions lost due to his lack of rebounding and hustling.

 

[piksi]

One of the biggest complaints when Webber was a member of the Kings was how much better the team played when he was not there.

not compleately true

Only since 2004 or after he came from injury/suspension.

Before that night in Dallas - that was not the case

 

[Bricklayer]

not compleately true

Only since 2004 or after he came from injury/suspension.

Before that night in Dallas - that was not the case

Oh no, I've been on this board long enough to remember people every year trying to prove Webb meant nothing and that we were nearly as good without him as with when he was out with various injuries. 2004 merely polarized previously existing fault lines.

 

[piksi]

Oh no, I've been on this board long enough to remember people every year trying to prove Webb meant nothing and that we were nearly as good without him as with when he was out with various injuries. 2004 merely polarized previously existing fault lines.

Well, I was not there so I can't comment on that. Webber before Dallas was the only superstar Kings have had in this era. Unfortunately, from 2004 his body could not "cover" his ego and it took a trad and Allan Iverson of all people for Webber to realize things. Too late for Kings

 

[DocHolliday]

At this point I'd rather have the Cisco Kid on the floor. He may be a rookie and make mistakes, but the offense moves a LOT more with him there. You saw slashin and cutting etc. when he was on the floor along with Kevin Martin. Cisco's game becomes more solid when he' starting for obvious reasons. With Peja the offense stagnates.

 

[kupman]

I am with you on this one. We are better without Peja right now. There is a correlation, but beyond that I think it may be a cause and effect relationship. It pains me to say this because I am a Peja fan. However, right now he just kind of jacks-up shots without much integrity within the offense and offers little else outside of his outside shots.

I have said it a few times and I will say it again. I think Peja would be best used coming off the bench as scoring punch. Start playing him 20-25 minutes a game and see if he can bring some offensive punch and then sit him back down. He has never shown that he can play effectively over an entire 40-48 minutes anyway.

By the way, I know that this will never happen.

 

[kupman]

Addendum to my post above: I think Peja could be used like Scott Wedman of the Celtics in the 80's.

 

[sloter]

Well, I'm not sure that the Kings would NOT be better off without Pedja... he has not been able to contribute since Vlade left and with the shifts in the way the Kings play offense, his role is less and less important. I'm not sure what this has to do with Webber ? Perhaps a little more with Adelman's constant underachieving ?

 

[PFFFT!!]

AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...sorry that escaped my mouth. :|

 

[Kings241]

Peja no longer fits here with the way we play offense. He needs to go to a team like the Warriors where they like to play behind the 3pt line and find the open player. Here we just can't seem to find him and he loses his confidence. I remember back in the day where Peja would play off the offense and let the game come to him instead of forcing shots. He just does not seem to be comfortable anymore and its not about him being a bad or good player.

 

[SacKings384]

In fact I suspect that our record might be better without just about ANY of our starting 5, simply because it frees up shots and roles for the others. Take away Reef and leave Peja, and we win more too. .

I.E Last night?

 

[Purple Reign]

Last night Peja took a shot, that I never saw him take. In the late third, early fourth after he drained two three pointers to put the Kings within 9, he threw up a 3 from the top of the key without even setting his feet. It was early in the shot clock and right then I felt, "this guy feels he has something to prove". It was a very bad shot, very much out of the offense.

 

[kupman]

I felt the same thing Purple Reign, although I have felt it earlier this year as well with Peja. The thought has crossed my mind that he reminds me of the guy who shows up at the rec. center for pick-up games on Saturady morning and just starts jacking-up deep shots with little regard for anything else.

 

[AleksandarN]

Oh no, I've been on this board long enough to remember people every year trying to prove Webb meant nothing and that we were nearly as good without him as with when he was out with various injuries. 2004 merely polarized previously existing fault lines.

I remember as well. BTW where is sloter these days I never see him on these boards lately.<never mind just saw his post> It is too bad we lost the old threads. I would love to revisit them.

 

[bench_blob]

Stats tell half the story. It only takes two eye balls to see the other half.

Although, 4-1 record w/o Peja is not a large sample size, and consider too those wins were against lightweights: the Nets (minus Vinsanity), two lousy teams (Celtics and Raptors), and one team playing terribly at the time (the Clips), the regression of his game is pretty dramatic.

I used to be a fan of Peja, but I have lost respect for him. His lack of aggression and inability to compete, and find ways to be effective, as a veteran player in his supposed prime and in his contract year....it's just a mess.

Despite being coddled by his coach, and countless plays run for him, Peja can't get open anymore....and even when he gets by his man he gets stripped or swatted before he can finish.

And when by fortune, he does did an ounce of daylight, he acts suprised to have lost his defender for a second, and he rushes his shot....clank.

What happened to the 3-time all-star good for 25 ppg?

Did Peja have reconstructive ACL microsurgery on both knees, w/o announcing it to anyone, b/c thats how he moves.

The double screens and down screens and back-cuts amount to a hamster on a treadmill.....a lot of runnning going nowhere

Along with RA fired, get rid of the Kings trainer. Any athlete properly stretched and with proper flexibility will almost never sustain a groin injury. Peja should be practicing high intensity YOGA 3-5X times a week. It would do wonders for his game. Along with flexibility gains, it strengthens core muscle groups responsible for stop and start busrts. C-Webb did it over the summer. Ron Artest and KG do it regularly, and attribute much of their defense prowess to the effects of it.

And get a LEFT hand. When you are slow and limited athletically, you have to compensate by being crafty. Peja should have spent a summer or two the last 2-3 years with his right hand in a removable splint, and developed some ambidextrous skills.

He pays more attention to his facial hair than his game.

At least if you are a Sonic fan, you know heads will roll when a team underperforms. In Sacramento, we have a clueless coach who shows blind devotion to the worst back-up point guard in the NBA as if he were the second coming of Isiah Thomas.

On second thought, Rick Adelman should be forced to ride out the season. No life jackets for the captain of a sinking ship! Actually, let him suffer for 81 games of the season, and then fire him before the last game of the season to give him the send off he deserves.

 

[Stojakovic]

Wow...and I thought Lakers fans were fairweather.

Brad Miller was right.

 

[BMiller52]

At least if you are a Sonic fan, you know heads will roll when a team underperforms. In Sacramento, we have a clueless coach who shows blind devotion to the worst back-up point guard in the NBA as if he were the second coming of Isiah Thomas.

Okay THAT was funny.

 

[tresmil]

Not to be a Peja-lover here, but I can't help but wonder who would get run out of town next, by the 'fans', once Peja is no longer a King.

Seems like most people on this board are on missions to run out one Kings player after another. Have been, too, for as long as I can remember reading this board (which is much longer than I've been a member).

It's like reading an article by AV in here sometimes. Some of you should just lighten up. I admit there's not much to be happy about, in regards to this team, but there's no reason why every loss should be followed by how we should trade Brad, Bibby and Bonzi for Jim Jackson, Brother Hedo, Jon Barry, Jason Williams, Nick Anderson and high draft picks.

With that out of the way, I believe that our starting forwards (Peja and SAR) are a main part of our problems. In this offense, running set plays for anyone usually makes us one-dimensional (and a lot less dangerous as a result). Maybe these two need to spend a lot more time with Coachie (similar to how one has extra sessions with him based on their free throws).

EDIT: I'm not saying that the thread isn't valuable, I'm saying that most of the replies seem hell bent on running certain Kings players out of town. This is more for the other threads I see. This just seemed like the best place to post it.

 

[Kings241]

Not to be a Peja-lover here, but I can't help but wonder who would get run out of town next, by the 'fans', once Peja is no longer a King.

Seems like most people on this board are on missions to run out one Kings player after another. Have been, too, for as long as I can remember reading this board (which is much longer than I've been a member).

It's like reading an article by AV in here sometimes. Some of you should just lighten up. I admit there's not much to be happy about, in regards to this team, but there's no reason why every loss should be followed by how we should trade Brad, Bibby and Bonzi for Jim Jackson, Brother Hedo, Jon Barry, Jason Williams, Nick Anderson and high draft picks.

With that out of the way, I believe that our starting forwards (Peja and SAR) are a main part of our problems. In this offense, running set plays for anyone usually makes us one-dimensional (and a lot less dangerous as a result). Maybe these two need to spend a lot more time with Coachie (similar to how one has extra sessions with him based on their free throws).

EDIT: I'm not saying that the thread isn't valuable, I'm saying that most of the replies seem hell bent on running certain Kings players out of town. This is more for the other threads I see. This just seemed like the best place to post it.

No one is running anyone player out of the Kings. It's called "critizing" and "analyzing" different aspects of the team. And most of it starts with the players themselves.

 

[tresmil]

No one is running anyone player out of the Kings. It's called "critizing" and "analyzing" different aspects of the team. And most of it starts with the players themselves.

Fair enough - just use the same term(s) the next time AV writes an article criticizing Adelman. =)

In all seriousness, where do "running out of town" and "constant criticism/analysis" meet? The kind of constant, "blow the team up," "SAR is cursed," "Peja is soft," and "Kenny Thomas is a whiner" -type analysis? How does that help bring a meaningful and thoughtful discussion to the board?

 

[NumberFour]

Peja should come off the bench for the occasional three like Brent Barry. Peja does not have the athleticism and seems to have lost the heart to be a starter. It's time for him to go to the bench for awhile until he figures things out. If that doesn't help he should be traded.

 

[AleksandarN]

Peja should come off the bench for the occasional three like Brent Barry. Peja does not have the athleticism and seems to have lost the heart to be a starter. It's time for him to go to the bench for awhile until he figures things out. If that doesn't help he should be traded.

Yes because is not starter material

 

[tresmil]

Peja should come off the bench for the occasional three like Brent Barry. Peja does not have the athleticism and seems to have lost the heart to be a starter. It's time for him to go to the bench for awhile until he figures things out. If that doesn't help he should be traded.

The defense rests.

 

[Bonzinator]

Not to be a Peja-lover here, but I can't help but wonder who would get run out of town next, by the 'fans', once Peja is no longer a King.

Seems like most people on this board are on missions to run out one Kings player after another. Have been, too, for as long as I can remember reading this board (which is much longer than I've been a member).

It's like reading an article by AV in here sometimes. Some of you should just lighten up. I admit there's not much to be happy about, in regards to this team, but there's no reason why every loss should be followed by how we should trade Brad, Bibby and Bonzi for Jim Jackson, Brother Hedo, Jon Barry, Jason Williams, Nick Anderson and high draft picks.

With that out of the way, I believe that our starting forwards (Peja and SAR) are a main part of our problems. In this offense, running set plays for anyone usually makes us one-dimensional (and a lot less dangerous as a result). Maybe these two need to spend a lot more time with Coachie (similar to how one has extra sessions with him based on their free throws).

EDIT: I'm not saying that the thread isn't valuable, I'm saying that most of the replies seem hell bent on running certain Kings players out of town. This is more for the other threads I see. This just seemed like the best place to post it.

how the hell is SAR A PROBLEM! he has been our most consistent player besides bonzi and tim duncan couldnt even stop him. as a matter of fact he has done a great job on duncan and garnett defensively. and hes a go to player in the fourth quarter. we can never win a championship without guys who score inside consistently like bonzi and SAR. we cant just have 5 jumpshooters! SAR IS NOT THE PROBLEM in this offense its peja who shot 7 out of freakin 19 and obviously doesnt wanna be here.

 

[Bonzinator]

Yes because is not starter material

i hope your not being sarcastic! hes not starter material, at least not right now thats for sure.

 

[Kings241]

how the hell is SAR A PROBLEM! he has been our most consistent player besides bonzi and tim duncan couldnt even stop him. as a matter of fact he has done a great job on duncan and garnett defensively. and hes a go to player in the fourth quarter. we can nver win a championship withou guys who score inside consistently like bonzi and SAR. we cant just have 5 jumpshooters! SAR IS NOT THE PROBLEM in this offense its peja who sot 7 out of freakin 19 and obviously doesnt wanna be here.

Thank You, you just summed up about everything that I have posted so far in a brief paragraph.