Our Complete Lack of Offense/Movement, in Pictures

[Henkel]

I really hope we win Monday. I can't take much more angst.

I'm already terrified of the posts a Rubio lead defeat could produce around here.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I really hope we win Monday. I can't take much more angst.

I'm already terrified of the posts a Rubio lead defeat could produce around here.

On the other hand, a shredding at the hands of Rubio would be a nice vindication for those of us who got laughed at over the last few years for saying the Kings should have went with Rubio.

 

[Glenn]

There will be movement soon, as the fanbase dwindles as a cold wind comes across the caverns of the empty wallets of the maloofs, the team will move.. move somewhere

If the team fails, if attendance falls, if at the very same time the Kings have the lowest salary in the NBA, and at the same time the team has the lowest salaried coach in the NBA, the Maloofs will have a very difficult time convincing the NBA that the city is at fault. The only honest argument they could us is "we are financial idiots and need to move to an area where we can make money despite putting a crap team on the floor." I am sick of the Maloofs and I am sick of being the victim of their "frugalness." The do not have the money to run an NBA team properly and in the end, we will be the losers.

 

[Section 101]

To be clearer about my patience level : I'm giving Smart 1 1/2 months for these Kings to show SOME semblance of an ability to run some set plays which demonstrate a true break from Westphal's proven-disastrous free-flow drive-and-kick, no-movement bull****.

Have you looked at the schedule the next 1.5 months (to Feb 28th)? They have 7 home games and only 3 sets of 2 days off in a row. That means they might get 3 real practices.

 

[Bricklayer]

Have you looked at the schedule the next 1.5 months (to Feb 28th)? They have 7 home games and only 3 sets of 2 days off in a row. That means they might get 3 real practices.

Just yikes.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Poll over on RealGM about who is the worst team in the WC. Kings "won" running away. http://basketball.realgm.com/poll/218275

 

[IfAt1st]

Have you looked at the schedule the next 1.5 months (to Feb 28th)? They have 7 home games and only 3 sets of 2 days off in a row. That means they might get 3 real practices.

Seriously - how long do you think it would take to get professional basketball players to run a screen on most plays?

How bout ATTEMPT a pick-and-roll on a regular basis?

I'm not requiring that these plays be successful - just show us, the fanbase and the world at large, that you have some awareness that these are important fundamental plays in the sport and that you are trying to implement them through the weeks.

P.S. About that poll.
Ouch.
Just ouch.

 

[Bricklayer]

I guarantee you 2/3 of the people in a realgm poll haven't even seen the Kings play this year, likely more. For them its just negative stories about Cousins, a coaching change, and then bad poll timing with the Dallas shellacking.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

tayshaun prince may be available with the way the pistons are playing... price might be too high tho

 

[Hadlowe]

I guarantee you 2/3 of the people in a realgm poll haven't even seen the Kings play this year, likely more. For them its just negative stories about Cousins, a coaching change, and then bad poll timing with the Dallas shellacking.

Of the other teams on the board, which are playing worse? Minnesota is getting better, and quickly. Love is a legitimate superstar and Rubio is looking to be the most complete new pg in the league (assuming he solidifies his defensive play.)

Phoenix is full of has-beens, but they are superstar has-beens. When they win, they win like champions and have beaten very strong teams, and they tend not to get blown out in their losses. (Incidentally, why have we not considered taking Nash for his final year or two to teach this squad how to pass the damn ball? If Jimmer is going to pan out at point, he needs to be a threat to shoot or distribute, and Nash would be the ultimate mentor for him.)

The only teams I could see as being worse are the hornets and warriors. Both have had star injuries that have brought their seasons down, and both of them still pass the ball better on their worst nights than we do on our best nights.

 

[Npliam]

Of the other teams on the board, which are playing worse? Minnesota is getting better, and quickly. Love is a legitimate superstar and Rubio is looking to be the most complete new pg in the league (assuming he solidifies his defensive play.)

Phoenix is full of has-beens, but they are superstar has-beens. When they win, they win like champions and have beaten very strong teams, and they tend not to get blown out in their losses. (Incidentally, why have we not considered taking Nash for his final year or two to teach this squad how to pass the damn ball? If Jimmer is going to pan out at point, he needs to be a threat to shoot or distribute, and Nash would be the ultimate mentor for him.)

Nash wouldn't be able to get the ball from Tyreke or Thornton. If he did those two would just watch him try to create his own shot with no movement or screens.

 

[Hadlowe]

Nash wouldn't be able to get the ball from Tyreke or Thornton. If he did those two would just watch him try to create his own shot with no movement or screens.

I know you are being sarcastic here. I do think that Thornton and Tyreke would jump at the chance for some mentoring from a player and would relish playing on the same team with a supreme distributor. Thornton did well alongside Chris Paul his rookie year until he pissed off the coach and rode the pine for half of his sophomore year.

Unfortunately, we would probably have to trade away one of those two to get Nash here, and Phoenix would probably insist on Evans who has the highest ceiling. The Maloofs would probably want to deal Thornton for salary reasons.

 

[Prince_XY]

Players don't forget how to create passing lanes, or how to cut off the ball, because of a coaching change. These screen shots are pretty elementary. Can't tell me that with all the coaches Salmons has played for, he still can't rotate to the elbow extended to create a simple passing lane. Very similar to the shell drill, working against a zone defense in high school. You move to an open spot, where you have a clear lane to the passer, and the passer has a clear lane to you, and really create off the gaps in the defense, and learn how t move into those gaps.

I agree. Even in high school basketball they teach you these things. What more in College basketball. Most of our players are guilty of not doing what they are supposed to do on the floor.

What I think all this does show, is that in the 2+ years Westy was coach, not a single player learned the most elementary basics of creating passing lines, cutting, or not occupying the same area as a teammate. We constantly have guys is a position on offense where one defender can guard two of our guys, without moving. I mean, that's one of the most elementary no-no's in basketball. I don't blame Smart for this. He's in a very tough situation. Practically a no win situation.

I disagree and it looks like you are contradicting yourself, so please clarify.

This is mostly on the basketball players I think. Unless some of our players went straight to the NBA from elementary school, only then we can probably blame it on Westphal. Like you said, the knowledge is mostly elementary basics.

I think most of our players just simply don't want to win. They'll pretend they forgot the basics of basketball or make it seem like the coach wants them to be playing that way just so their job wouldn't be that hard. Most of them are lazy.

 

[Npliam]

I know you are being sarcastic here. I do think that Thornton and Tyreke would jump at the chance for some mentoring from a player and would relish playing on the same team with a supreme distributor. Thornton did well alongside Chris Paul his rookie year until he pissed off the coach and rode the pine for half of his sophomore year.

Unfortunately, we would probably have to trade away one of those two to get Nash here, and Phoenix would probably insist on Evans who has the highest ceiling. The Maloofs would probably want to deal Thornton for salary reasons.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being serious. Have you seen those 2 play? They are black holes that only pass when they are about to get their shot blocked.

They are both good at getting to the rim and both can make shots. If they are falling then the Kings have a shot if they aren't then the Kings will lose in blow out fashion.

 

[pshn80]

This is mostly on the basketball players I think. Unless some of our players went straight to the NBA from elementary school, only then we can probably blame it on Westphal. Like you said, the knowledge is mostly elementary basics.

I think most of our players just simply don't want to win. yThey'll pretend they forgot the basics of basketball or make it seem like the coach wants them to be playing that way just so their job wouldn't be that hard. Most of them are laz.

I think some players with the talent Tyreke had a very young age are not taught some of the basic stuff. If a high school coach has a guy that can win all the games for you by just doing what he does best, you can bet most coaches don't rock the boat. When it happens it is surely unfortunate for the player's future. I suspect that is the situation with Tyreke. And I think it continued through his first year as a pro. The Kings let him do what he did to get the ROY and it worked. All of this makes going with Tyreke, which we all want to do, a tougher uphill climb. Patience.

 

[bajaden]

I think some players with the talent Tyreke had a very young age are not taught some of the basic stuff. If a high school coach has a guy that can win all the games for you by just doing what he does best, you can bet most coaches don't rock the boat. When it happens it is surely unfortunate for the player's future. I suspect that is the situation with Tyreke. And I think it continued through his first year as a pro. The Kings let him do what he did to get the ROY and it worked. All of this makes going with Tyreke, which we all want to do, a tougher uphill climb. Patience.

I wasn't going to respond to his post, because frankly, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Not his fault though, because its a likely assumption that you'll learn all these things in highschool. To be fair, there are some highschool programs that are very solid, but the majority are severly lacking. My best friends son was the PG on Matt Barnes team at Del Campo, and I went to lot of their games. Barnes was the tallest player on the team, and guess what? He played center. Now you tell me how in the world that prepared him for playing SG in college? Add in that his highschool coach was more concerned with keeping the parents of all the players on the team happy, than he was with winning, and the result is a lousy program.

Fortunately, or Unfortunately, players like Evans are the stars of their highschool team. And for the most part, they're given the keys to the car, and have carte blanche on the court. In some cases, if the player goes to college for more than one year, old habits are broken, basics are revisited, and fundamentals are instilled. I watch as many highschool basketball games as I can, and there are more televised all the time, especially if you get the sports package. There are some solid programs out there, but they're few and far between. And unless your dealiing with one of those elite programs, remember that the highschool basketball coach is likely to be your english or history teacher as well.

My point is, that when you draft a one and done player out of college, you're for the most part, getting a very fundamentally raw player thats been getting by on his natural, god given, physical attributes. We like to point to players like Jordan, Bird, etc. as players that came out of college and had an immediate impact in the league. But almost all those guys went to college for 4 years. There are those rare exceptions, but not many. Look how long it took Jermaine O'Neal to finally become a good player. Four years!

Tyreke Evans has never had to change his game. Westphal saw him as a horse to ride, and unleased him to do what he does best. Now Evans is being asked to conform, and change his game. To think that will happen overnight is ridiculous. When crunch time comes, a player tends to fall back on what he knows best. Thats not an excuse, thats just the way it is. Personally, I've seen improvement. But to be honest, I don't think it helps to have Salmons in the same lineup with him. Especially when it looks like John would rather be somewhere else. To aske Evans to change his game and play within a system, when other players on the floor aren't doing the same, isn't going to work.

 

[Emma]

Most people, even those wise beyond their years, ain't figured nothin' out until their late twenties. These guys are thrust into the NBA with almost no work experience. They played a game their entire life and now it has to be their job.

Point: We've been running a rotating roster that has been trying to learn forever. Time to get some old dogs in here that know when to bark, know when to bite.

 

[Prince_XY]

I wasn't going to respond to his post, because frankly, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Not his fault though, because its a likely assumption that you'll learn all these things in highschool.

Of course I know what I was talking about. I read the post of rainmaker and certainly I know what I wrote in response to what I read. As rainmaker pointed out those were fundamental/basics to a basketball player especially for those who have reached the college level of basketball. They should know these, unless they played baseball and pretend they know basketball too just like you do. Basketball is very different from baseball.

I guess my whole point is players are not exerting that much effort to apply just even their very basic knowledge of basketball. They are plainly lazy and contented just play however they want to play. We are probably all non-NBA players posting in this board. Why is it that we see those elementary mistakes and the Kings' players can't? It has something to do with their desire to win or effort to be better.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Of course I know what I was talking about. I read the post of rainmaker and certainly I know what I wrote in response to what I read. As rainmaker pointed out those were fundamental/basics to a basketball player especially for those who have reached the college level of basketball. They should know these, unless they played baseball and pretend they know basketball too just like you do. Basketball is very different from baseball.

I guess my whole point is players are not exerting that much effort to apply just even their very basic knowledge of basketball. They are plainly lazy and contented just play however they want to play. We are probably all non-NBA players posting in this board. Why is it that we see those elementary mistakes and the Kings' players can't? It has something to do with their desire to win or effort to be better.

Because we are watching and not playing. Try playing the game and tell me how many mistakes you can focus on in the heat of the game. It's much easier when you are sitting back watching the whole court on a screen than when you are actually ON the court playing. But someone who hasn't played would definitely NOT understand this.

 

[VF21]

Of course I know what I was talking about. I read the post of rainmaker and certainly I know what I wrote in response to what I read. As rainmaker pointed out those were fundamental/basics to a basketball player especially for those who have reached the college level of basketball. They should know these, unless they played baseball and pretend they know basketball too just like you do. Basketball is very different from baseball.

I guess my whole point is players are not exerting that much effort to apply just even their very basic knowledge of basketball. They are plainly lazy and contented just play however they want to play. We are probably all non-NBA players posting in this board. Why is it that we see those elementary mistakes and the Kings' players can't? It has something to do with their desire to win or effort to be better.

It's obvious that you have never known anyone who actually played professional sports. And I'm willing to bet you've never been around the practice facility or at an arena way before a game.

You've made tons of ridiculous statements under your various user names on this board, but to say that Kings players don't have a desire to win or effort to be better is ludicrous.

 

[Tetsujin]

I guess my whole point is players are not exerting that much effort to apply just even their very basic knowledge of basketball. They are plainly lazy and contented just play however they want to play. We are probably all non-NBA players posting in this board. Why is it that we see those elementary mistakes and the Kings' players can't? It has something to do with their desire to win or effort to be better.

Yes, because NBA players most certainly do not give a lick about even trying to mount an effort to win the game.

 

[swisshh]

Tonight there was some movement and offense in the first half, but then it vanished in the second half. A similar thing happened in the Rockets game(I believe that was the one.). It feels as though its Salmons who comes out in the second half and just bails on the offense, but it's difficult to place the entire breakdown on one person.

 

[Prince_XY]

It's obvious that you have never known anyone who actually played professional sports. And I'm willing to bet you've never been around the practice facility or at an arena way before a game.

You've made tons of ridiculous statements under your various user names on this board, but to say that Kings players don't have a desire to win or effort to be better is ludicrous.

You are so quick to accuse people and paint them as if they are trolls. Dirty tactics. Various usernames? Can you prove that or at least show a credible basis for your accusation like similar IPs of those various usernames?

Also FYI, I played pro basketball and done a little bit of coaching too although not as high level of pro-basketball as it is here in the US or the NBA. I am not saying I know everything about basketball, but rest assured I am not just some sorry baseball player and having delusions of knowing basketball more than most of the posters.

Maybe you are right Kings players have a desire to win or effort to get better. Unfortunately, it does not show in their game. So, what is it really?

 

[Kingster]

This is something I think many should look at. Both Reke and Cousins get a ton of criticism around here for not creating enough. Some think fixing our offense is as simply as trading Evans for a more pure pg, as names such as Augustin and Andre Miller have been thrown around as trade targets for Reke(WTF?).

Well, our problem is a complete lack of an offensive system, with practically zero off the ball movement, and even less of that is what I'd call "smart" off the ball movement, meaning a positive movement to create a passing lane, or effectively help create space for the guy with the ball.

What some seem to ignore, is that even if we had a pg with eyes in back of his head, he still needs to be surrounded by four guys who know how to move, cut, and create the correct passing lanes off the ball. We have none of that. Reke is extremely poor at it. So is Thornton. Salmons and JJ are the worst. JT is regularly is the wrong place. Our youngsters haven't been taught how to move and space the floor effectively, and our vets, namely Salmons and JJ(if he qualifies as a vet), have got to be two of the lowest IQ players in the league for the experience they have.

Anyway, I recommend taking the time and looking through this. It's early, very early in Smarts tenure, but the problems you'll see are almost a carbon copy of the problems we had under Westy.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2012/...fense-not-the-talent-now-in-pictures#comments

I hope some will look at this, and realize it's not that Cousins is incredibly selfish and doesn't want to pass, or that Reke can't create, eventhough he does time and time again, but that when either has the ball, the other four guys are doing more harm than good. Reke can drive and draw another defender repeatedly, but it means crap if the other guys don't know how to create a passing lane for Reke to pass out of the congestion. You can blame Cousins for making poor passes, and forcing perimeter shots, but that's ignoring that his teammates don't cut, or create passing lanes when he has the ball, so there isn't another option for him.

Good read. Very early, but rings true.

Is it a lack of system, or players unable, or unwilling, to run the system? I think the latter. And why are they unable, or unwilling, to run the system? Stubborness, low BB IQ? Lack of precise instruction? I don't know. I do know that if we had a pg worth his salt he would be screaming at players to get in the positions that they need to get in. He would be the coach on the floor. Alas, we don't have a pg that knows where he should be, much less everyone else.

When Doug Collins took over for the happless Sixers he went 3-13 before he turned it around. That's without a compressed schedule and with much more practice time. It could take another 20-30 games before you see any effect from Smart's coaching, if then.

 

[Prince_XY]

Because we are watching and not playing. Try playing the game and tell me how many mistakes you can focus on in the heat of the game. It's much easier when you are sitting back watching the whole court on a screen than when you are actually ON the court playing. But someone who hasn't played would definitely NOT understand this.

I will assume you haven't really played competitive basketball and just basing your thoughts on your experience as a fan watching the game and some hearsays from posters here pretending to know basketball when they only played baseball. Because if you had played competitive basketball (or even backyard or street basketball) you will know what I was talking about.

The mistakes the Kings players are doing and keep on doing are elementary mistakes that any NBA player can easily correct if they have the desire or effort to change for the better. And don't tell me they don't review their games or the more I would be laughing here and thinking you don't know anything about pro basketball.

 

[Kingsguy881]

I will assume you haven't really played competitive basketball and just basing your thoughts on your experience as a fan watching the game and some hearsays from posters here pretending to know basketball when they only played baseball. Because if you had played competitive basketball (or even backyard or street basketball) you will know what I was talking about.

The mistakes the Kings players are doing and keep on doing are elementary mistakes that any NBA player can easily correct if they have the desire or effort to change for the better. And don't tell me they don't review their games or the more I would be laughing here and thinking you don't know anything about pro basketball.

I played on Arco's court in the CIF semifinals when I was in high school bro. I played against Matt Barnes in high school and Hoop It Up in the Top Gun league. You, sir, can bring it anytime you want to.

 

[Kingster]

As a Jazz fan I have been shocked at just how bad the Kings offense has been. There is no ball movement, no player movement off the ball or any real desirre prom any of the players to make back cuts or set effective screens. It is kind of a joke.

One thing I am sure of is that if Jerry Sloan ever agreed to coach the Kings the would be some key players upset with his offense.

And that's a key point. If guys like to go one-on-one, maybe they don't want to run a system

 

[Bricklayer]

Come on guys, enough with the escalating internet tough guy/credentials thing.

I, for instance, am MJ's long lost pasty brother, and used to kick his *** so bad in the driveway that I was what inspired him to true greatness. That whole being cut in high school myth was just made up because he didn't want peeps to know that never at any point was he the best basketball player on the planet.

 

[Kingster]

It's obvious that you have never known anyone who actually played professional sports. And I'm willing to bet you've never been around the practice facility or at an arena way before a game.

You've made tons of ridiculous statements under your various user names on this board, but to say that Kings players don't have a desire to win or effort to be better is ludicrous.

I don't think that comment should be given short shrift. I don't think it's ludicrous to speculate that there are some Kings players who do want to win, but who want to win on their terms.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Come on guys, enough with the escalating internet tough guy/credentials thing.

I, for instance, am MJ's long lost pasty brother, and used to kick his *** so bad in the driveway that I was what inspired him to true greatness. That whole being cut in high school myth was just made up because he didn't want peeps to know that never at any point was he the best basketball player on the planet.

He started it!