One-Two Punches

Where do Cousins/Gay rank as a future duo?

  • 1-3

    Votes: 13 23.6%
  • 4-6

    Votes: 22 40.0%
  • 7-9

    Votes: 13 23.6%
  • 10-12

    Votes: 4 7.3%
  • 13-15

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 16-18

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • 19-21

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 22-24

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 25-27

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 28-30

    Votes: 1 1.8%

  • Total voters
    55
So where is the hammer of truth behind me saying Rudy could be exactly want his career average states? Or is that to far fetched for you? I have been misrepresented as saying he will shoot 48% from now on? I stand behind his last two years are the exception not the rule? You disagree? If so give more reasoning than because of the last two years and not ignore the previous 6

I expect Rudy to continue to play at around the level that he's shown us thus far. Maybe not as great as he's looked, but I don't expect him to spiral down to the pits of Toronto. And that is for one simple reason. Playing on the same floor as Demarcus Cousins makes his life easier. It's as simple as that.

So as long as Cousins is able to dominate on the court, Rudy's life will be easier. And when Rudy's life is easier, he's far more likely to play good efficient basketball.
I'm curious. If Rudy ends up having a bad 3-14 night is everyone going to say 'Look! He's reverting back to his Toronto form!'
I'm sure he's going to have some stinker games, and he could get in a funk and have a bad couple of games.

But the fact that he's playing with probably the most dominant offensive big-man in the game right now means that he doesn't have to press. He can take good shots and he's shown he's got the smooth offense to hit those shots.

So ultimately I don't think it matters much if he has a bad game or two. He's already shown that he knows how not to press, how to play off of Cousins' dominance, and for that reason I think that this future duo can be incredibly potent. In fact, the fact that so far they've looked so good and it's only been 10 games with very little practice time has been really impressive. Think of what will happen when they can really develop a two-man game and go to that consistantly....then you'll have something to really talk about in terms of hope for the future.
 
In all fairness to Rudy, he was still coming off of a major injury that ultimately removed him from the Grizzlies playoff roster the year before and convinced the Grizz upper brass they didn't need him. Of course since they've traded him, the Grizzlies have begun the slow tailspin into middling collection of role players and old guys.

Well, yes and no. Memphis is coming off a WCF bid and was on a 4 game winning streak before Marc went down in the Spurs game. Marc is pretty much everything to them on both ends of the floor.

I like Rudy. He's been great for us. I hope he continues to produce. I just want to see it continue over a larger sample for me to believe it's sustainable
 
Well, yes and no. Memphis is coming off a WCF bid and was on a 4 game winning streak before Marc went down in the Spurs game. Marc is pretty much everything to them on both ends of the floor.

I like Rudy. He's been great for us. I hope he continues to produce. I just want to see it continue over a larger sample for me to believe it's sustainable

Marc isn't going to make too big a difference when it comes to their cap hell situation and the fact their star player is on the downhill slope of his career along with several of their other key guys isn't something they can easily alleviate. Certainly having a player to help alleviate te crush on Z-Bo in the post like Rudy would help them now.

One thing that has occurred to me it the possibility of making a move for Tony Allen if Memphis doesn't completely turn itself around before the trade deadline.
 
So where is the hammer of truth behind me saying Rudy could be exactly want his career average states? Or is that to far fetched for you? I have been misrepresented as saying he will shoot 48% from now on? I stand behind his last two years are the exception not the rule? You disagree? If so give more reasoning than because of the last two years and not ignore the previous 6

I was not weighing in on any of those points whatsoever. You seem to be missing that.

However, in the hopes that me giving my opinion on these points will end the back-and-forth, I will summarize how I feel on the issue of Rudy Gay's future Sacramento stats, etc.:

1. I believe Rudy is currently our #2 guy.
2. I recognize that Rudy is in a different situation than he was in Memphis and a far different situation than he was in Toronto.
3. I believe the difference in situation leaves room for optimism that Rudy can be as good, or even better, than his first ten games in Sacramento suggest.
4. I hope, fervently, that Rudy will be even better than his first ten games in Sacramento.
5. However, I believe that a ten-game sample size is too small to suggest Rudy's future Sacramento stats with confidence. He could be better, the same, or worse in the long run, and none of the three would particularly surprise me.
6. I am content with those who are optimistic about Rudy's future being optimistic; I am content with those who are unwilling to draw a conclusion yet being unwilling to draw a conclusion yet.
7. I do not believe it is too early to raise these sorts of questions in a discussion thread. It is a perfectly reasonable topic. But I dislike it very much when someone consistently misrepresents another's position in such a discussion thread.
 
7. I do not believe it is too early to raise these sorts of questions in a discussion thread. It is a perfectly reasonable topic. But I dislike it very much when someone consistently misrepresents another's position in such a discussion thread.

This forum must give you gas as it happens all the time. Aggravating, eh?


BTW, there are endless variables on and off the court, known and unknown, effecting Gay's play with the Kings which complicates the issue so much as to make the results of a debate only strong speculation. I hope he does well also.
 
I don't see Aldridge as a better player than Cousins despite having almost MVP type season. Aldridge is having his career season and it can be argued that Cousins' season is at least on par with Aldridge if not better.
You don't see Aldridge as a better player even though he is having a better season? You seem to discount Aldridge's season as a "career year" without noting that Mr. Cousins is also having a career year. I would trade Cousins and Gay for Aldridge and Lillard right now. It would be mainly for the difference between Lillard and Gay though, Cousins and Aldridge is essentially a wash (although Cousins is younger and slightly more valuable I think).

Sorry to derail this thread away from the Gay 2nd best conversation.
 
You don't see Aldridge as a better player even though he is having a better season? You seem to discount Aldridge's season as a "career year" without noting that Mr. Cousins is also having a career year. I would trade Cousins and Gay for Aldridge and Lillard right now. It would be mainly for the difference between Lillard and Gay though, Cousins and Aldridge is essentially a wash (although Cousins is younger and slightly more valuable I think).

Sorry to derail this thread away from the Gay 2nd best conversation.

Your out of you mind to do that trade. Cousins just dominates in ways that Aldridge can't, Aldridge is more of a stretch 4 with good post moves he won't dominate the paint like DMC. Lillard also shoots a lot if 3s I'd take him over gay but not lillard/Aldridge vs DMC/gay. I believe what Barkley always says on TNT, jump shooting teams won't win a ring. Lillard/Aldridge are shooters (most of there offense) while gay/DMC are post up and drives.
 
Aldridge isn't doing anything he hasn't done before. Portland's starting group was beating teams simply with offensive punch last year. This season they replaced redundant offense creator/bad inside defense of JJ Hickson with above average inside defense/finisher in Lopez, strengthened the bench. And you get what you see.
The only thing Aldridge excels at comparing to Cousins is in limiting TOs(only 6.7% of his possessions ends with TO, for Boogie it's 14.5). TS% of .553 on 33.6 USG% for Boogie crushes .513 on 28.8 USG% for Aldridge. Cousins gets twice amount the FTs pace adjusted. Scoring aspect of FTs is counted in TS%, but there's also getting opponents' front line in foul trouble and forcing them to put inferior players on the floor and speeding up getting in the bonus for your team. Looking at per36 numbers you see sizable jump in both volume and efficiency for Boogie this year. Aldridge is actually doing what he usually does, only with higher volume and dropped efficiency as a result.
 
You don't see Aldridge as a better player even though he is having a better season? You seem to discount Aldridge's season as a "career year" without noting that Mr. Cousins is also having a career year. I would trade Cousins and Gay for Aldridge and Lillard right now. It would be mainly for the difference between Lillard and Gay though, Cousins and Aldridge is essentially a wash (although Cousins is younger and slightly more valuable I think).

Sorry to derail this thread away from the Gay 2nd best conversation.

Insanity. Even with the proviso that its centered around Lillard, who has quickly become the most overated 40% shooter in the league I think (its not the 3s either, he shoots those better than he does his 2s). Still, Lillard and Gay are just sidelights.

This is Cousins in his young guy breakout year. This is the beginning. It only goes up from here. Aldridge is a known quantity, at age 28 its far more likely for him to be having a strong early season before regressing to his norm than it is for Cousins, who by age and situation is supposed to have a breakout year. And actually no Aldridge is NOT having a better year anyway. His team is, but great as Aldridge has been, Cousins has been even better. More efficient, better rebounder even in Aldridge's best year by far on the glass, better passer, bigger impact on defense (I worded that carefully as neither guy is making an all defense team, but Cuz is just flat more talented at making things happen on both ends).

Aldrdge: 37.3min 23.6pts (.473 .800) 10.9reb 2.9ast 1.0stl 0.9blk 1.7TO
Cousins: 31.9min 22.7pts (.495 .717) 11.3reb 3.1ast 1.8stl 1.0blk 3.5TO

you can be kind and call that a draw. Then you can look beneath the numbers and realize that per 36min:

Aldrdge: 36.0min 22.8pts (.473 .800) 10.5reb 2.8ast 1.0stl 0.8blk 1.6TO
Cousins: 36.0min 25.6pts (.495 .717) 12.8reb 3.5ast 2.1stl 1.2blk 3.9TO

that there is actually a talent gulf between the players, and that at the same age/stage of development (per 36min age 23):

Aldrdge at 23: 36.0min 17.6pts (.484 .781) 7.3reb 1.9ast 0.9stl 0.9blk 1.5TO
Cousins at 23: 36.0min 25.6pts (.495 .717) 12.8reb 3.5ast 2.1stl 1.2blk 3.9TO

That that gulf becomes a chasm. There is every reason to believe that Cousins is going to end up being a MUCH better player than LaMarcus Aldridge. He might already be a better player today. A pounding post game creates a lot more foul problems for the other team and open shots for teammates than does a midrange jumpshooting game.

You flip that around and go look at Lillard & Gay, even in Gay's worst shooting year and that gap isn't enough to justify giving up the most dominant interior player in the game at 23.

Lillard : 36.5min 21.3pts (.418 .436 .891) 3.7reb 5.9ast 0.8stl 0.3blk 2.3TO
RudyG: 36.0min 19.6pts (.417 .326 .790) 6.4reb 2.3ast 1.6stl 1.1blk 3.3TO
 
Thinking about Portland a bit more, you can really see what balancing the roster and natural growth of young players can do for a team with abundance of scorers and lack of defensive role players.
 
You don't see Aldridge as a better player even though he is having a better season? You seem to discount Aldridge's season as a "career year" without noting that Mr. Cousins is also having a career year. I would trade Cousins and Gay for Aldridge and Lillard right now. It would be mainly for the difference between Lillard and Gay though, Cousins and Aldridge is essentially a wash (although Cousins is younger and slightly more valuable I think).

Sorry to derail this thread away from the Gay 2nd best conversation.
No! Just no!

Cousins alone is better than either of Aldridge or Lillard right now! Cousins at the age of 23 is having as good a season if not better than Aldridge who is in his prime except Blazers as a team are having a good season so Aldridge is in MVP conversation. If You went to blazers with your proposed Cousins and Gay for Aldridge and Lillard trade, they would do it because Cousins is clearly the best player in that deal and the difference between Lillard and Gay is not that big. Besides, both are just secondary stars on their team and as such, not as important as the franchise guy.

Cousins is already in the upper echelon of NBA superstars at the age of 23. Its only onwards and upwards for him from here. He is 5 years away from playing in his prime. Even if he stays as is, he is better than either Aldridge or Lillard and in all honesty, neither is a superstar that you build around. Cousins is!
 
Bingo! Apparently, this has gone over the head of a few others in the thread
Yeah, I wonder who is confused here.

This started with the questioning of whether rudy is our second best player. As yet, no one else has presented anyone else, just questions of whether rudy continues shooting well or not. For the basis of the original argument, who cares? It's not relevant to the original argument. He's still #2 either way.

To play along, I think his numbers will continue to be just fine. No reverting to Toronto unless cousins leaves and we change our offense.

Looking forward to the I told you so's after Rudy's next bad game. He was declared a failure and suddenly a "should we bring rudy off the bench" thread appeared after one 2-12 game. What's next?
 
How 'bout a one, and a two, and a three? I think having a Big Three is far more synergistic than a Big Two.

That said, I think Gay's percentages can go up from where they are now, simply because as time goes on he's going to have more wide open shots. In the Houston game he (and the team) took advantage of mismatches; he was covered, but by smaller players. That's iso ball. There's nothing wrong with iso ball when you get those mismatches, but it's even better when you don't have a guy within several feet of you because of the concern of Cousins in the post or IT driving to the basket. When they get more motion to the offense and IT (and others) knows where Gay is on the floor and where he wants the ball, you should have a very efficient Rudy Gay. That's what is exciting about this trio. You haven't seen their optimum performance level yet.
 
As a fan of Rudy, I'm not sure entirely convinced yet that he is the #2 we've been looking for. I would like to be wrong though.
 
Well this thread has certainly taken on a life of its own :p Its just basketball, I'm not sure where the heat is coming from. I've already said my piece on Rudy Gay so I don't think there's any point in rehashing. There is something I want to address here though:

On TS% in general:
I really really really wish I could have 5 minutes alone in a room with whoever it was who "invented" TS%. I have always loved the advanced stat mantra that mushing together a bunch of REAL stats into one big lumpy combo stat was the key to truth, rather than obscurification. But in the case of TS% its doubly worse, because it has elevated "efficiency" to a status it does not, and never has deserved. Efficiency is all well and good. Rather have an efficient guy than a non-efficient one. But robbed of context not only does it tell you little, but because it attracts too many idiots who don't know or understand the game and get hold of it as a safety blanket, it is frequently elevated up as THE trait to have. Gotta go get me some TS%. And the laugh of it is by far the best ways to have TS% are the very most untalented fat dude at the Y ways to accomplish anything on a basketball court -- which of course the TS% makers would know if they had ever played the sport. Here's TS%: alley oop dunks, three point shots (preferably open spot shots), and FT shooting = yay! Pathetic. And it just doesn't match up to reality on the court. It just doesn't. Kevin Martin notoriously had a higher TS% than Michael Jordan. Paul George has a TS% of .547 for a title contender. LaMarcus Aldridge has a TS% of .513 this year and his team has never been better. It just doesn't tell the story its proponents wish it would.

Yikes :eek:

*All* stats require context. FG%, PPG, APG, BPG, everything. TS% is just another tool to use. A pretty useful one at that, because scoring efficiency *should* take into account the extra value of threes and free throws. And I think even you know what it is about:

Efficiency is all well and good. Rather have an efficient guy than a non-efficient one.

Exactly! Nobody is busting out a list of the TS% leaders and saying that these are the league's premier players. Just like nobody is taking out a list of FG% leaders, seeing DeAndre Jordan at the top, and claiming he's the best player in the league. Just like nobody is looking at last year's assist numbers, seeing Vasquez at the top, and thinking that he's all of a sudden he's among the most valuable playmakers in the league. Its all a very elaborate strawman that nobody is even close to arguing.

Stats are stats. They are tools that require context. They all measure certain things. They all obscure other things. Some stats are better than others. TS% particularly measures scoring efficiency. Its one skill in the context of the entire player. Dumping a stat because it has certain weaknesses is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I don't see anyone advocating dumping FG% or PPG or APG because they can be misused just the same way.

In any case, its rather ironic that the same advocates for context are the ones robbing the discussion of it all. TS% requires a discussion about how the player is scoring, what his scoring is opening up for others on the court, how turnover prone the player is, and what else the player is bringing to the table.

For example, on one hand you have Kevin Martin, who does literally nothing on the court but score. Sky high TS%, but he doesn't make plays for others, he has a terrible handle so he can't reliably create for himself, and he's a terrible defender. The scoring ability is literally the only thing earning him an NBA paycheck.

On the other hand, you have Michael Jordan, who has an incredible TS% for the volume that he's scoring at, his role in the offense as the centerpiece/primary creator, his scoring is opening up his ability to make plays for his teammates, and he's one of the greatest perimeter defenders of all time. Thats context.

So what about Rudy then? Well, for one he can create for himself off the dribble or in post-up situations, so his scoring is inherently more valuable than the Kevin Martins of the world. But he's a very high turnover player and his scoring doesn't really open up opportunities for him to make plays for others. His defense is good but not elite. So its *kind of* important (read: VERY IMPORTANT) that when he's using a lot of shooting possessions that he's scoring at an efficient rate. Because if he's not, he's just not justifying the possessions that we're pouring into him.

So yes, when I hear this:

sorry I just don't see where it would be a disaster. Career % is right on par with multiple MVP's and All-Stars

It makes me wonder if the context promoters are even looking at context in the first place. For what its worth, his Memphis career (non-rookie) TS% is roughly around .530 (eyeballing it). The league average tends to be around roughly .530 to .540 TS%. So he's offering little playmaking, average rebounding, solid but not great defense, and a high amount of turnovers, all for what? Volume scoring in line with or below league average efficiency? It just wasn't worth it.

And its important to note that after Memphis essentially dumped him for a middling prospect in Ed Davis, they didn't really miss him. I'm not buying the garbage that they were better without Rudy than with him, or that they wouldn't have gotten as far if they did have Rudy in the lineup. But you definitely can't deny that they didn't really miss him; they still got as far as they did without him, even after replacing him with an offensive non-factor in Tayshaun Prince. So yes, Rudy regressing back to his Memphis-level efficiency is a pretty big deal. He's not giving us much on the court a roleplayer can't provide if he's scoring at that level of efficiency. And a roleplayer isn't making $19 million per year.

So then lets look at some of the other examples that were brought up:

Aldridge has a career TS% of .535

Aldridge is a ridiculously low turnover player for the usage he is scoring at and at the rate that he's making plays for teammates. Seriously, he's at a nearly 2:1 Assist to Turnover ratio for a big man. Thats insane for the usage he's posting. Plus you consider that he's manned up on the rebounding front this year, which is essentially his first year as a #1 option on a winning team. So you can live with the below average scoring efficiency since he's doing it at a high volume, its opening up his playmaking ability for others, and he's rarely turning it over.

Melo is at a career .545

Melo gets criticized for not being that efficient of a playmaker, but even then he's a better one than Rudy is. Melo also is scoring more points per game, at a higher volume, at a higher efficiency. This easily justifyies the scoring possessions he's using considering he's also making plays for others, even if its not on the Durant/Lebron/George level, its a tier above Rudy's level.

Paul George is a career .526

Who was never really considered an offensive star until this year, making his name mostly on defense. But this year he's obviously vaulted into the 3rd best SF slot after Lebron and Durant because he's still providing that game-changing defense with the added bonus of volume scoring and playmaking. He's justifying the usage quite nicely.

Luol Deng is a career .526

Never considered an offensive star, but brings great defense to the table. He's obviously miscast as a volume scorer, so while his TS% is low, he's never had an above average usage rate. So he's not using the same amount of possessions, making him a valuable roleplayer when in the right role since he's bringing other things to the table. If Rudy can score efficiently at the volume he's at now, I'd consider him a more valuable player than Deng. But if he reverts back into Memphis/Toronto form, then I would lean towards no. But they're obviously in the same tier as players.

Russel Westbrook is a career .520. Derrick Rose is a career .532

Both of whom offer PG play running the team, with the additional bonus of their volume scoring opening up playmaking ability, and both of whom have solid Assist to Turnover ratios, justifying the number of possessions that they use quite handily.

And again (its rather silly that I have to keep buttressing my comments with optimism, but I feel like I'm under attack from a bunch of fangirls after criticizing Justin Bieber), I'm cautiously optimistic. It seems like Rudy's changed his style up since coming into Sacramento. He's posting up more, he's getting to the line more. That TS% he's posting now is a good 2-3 points above league average, which easily justifies the usage he's at. But its critical that he maintains his level of play. Its interesting to note how even with his 3pt% is so low, he's posting a career high TS%. It could be a good or bad thing, since it means its likely that his 3pt% reverts back to the mean, and it also means his career high TS% is being floated by a 2pt% and FT rate way, way higher than his career average. It'll be interesting to see where he ends up at the end of the year.

Cautious optimism mixed with reservations. Consider that my stance.
 
Yeah, I wonder who is confused here.

This started with the questioning of whether rudy is our second best player. As yet, no one else has presented anyone else, just questions of whether rudy continues shooting well or not. For the basis of the original argument, who cares? It's not relevant to the original argument. He's still #2 either way.

To play along, I think his numbers will continue to be just fine. No reverting to Toronto unless cousins leaves and we change our offense.

Looking forward to the I told you so's after Rudy's next bad game. He was declared a failure and suddenly a "should we bring rudy off the bench" thread appeared after one 2-12 game. What's next?

Sure. I'm not arguing whether he's our 2nd best player or not. As I said before,

idk who you're going to get an "I told you so" from, but it certainly won't be me. I care about sample size more than pretty much everyone on the forum. 1 bad game doesn't mean much to me. Actually, it means nothing in the grand scheme of things during the course of a full season
 
Insanity. Even with the proviso that its centered around Lillard, who has quickly become the most overated 40% shooter in the league I think (its not the 3s either, he shoots those better than he does his 2s). Still, Lillard and Gay are just sidelights.
I'm not going to argue that Cousins is better than Aldridge, because I admitted as much in my initial post. I think the chasm is between Gay and Lillard is huge. I'm a Kings fan, so I have hope that Gay's talent will shine through, but he was basically being offered for FREE to anybody in the league and we were the only taker. If he is on of the top SF in the game, that would not be the case. True, he has shown GREAT in his small time here, and I would love for that to continue, but it is hard to understand how he had zero value in the league, even with his contract (which is almost an expiring deal).

Lillard has shown flashes that he could be the guy, with the ability to take over games and make huge, clutch shots. And I don't even agree that he is the second best player on the Blazers (Batum would be). I just think that Kings fans have some slight bias with Gay right now that nobody in the league shares. And I think there is more to the comparison than just numbers (especially when we aren't including usage rates, which Cousins and Gay are tops in the league at). I also have fears that a dominant big man isn't as useful in the league today that it has been in the past (where it was essential). It seems the NBA today is designed to benefit wing scorers who can create shots and drive on their own. Blame zone defense and hand-checking rule changes.

PS- Salary terms and length factored into this decision as well (just as it would if these teams were trading).
 
I'm not going to argue that Cousins is better than Aldridge, because I admitted as much in my initial post. I think the chasm is between Gay and Lillard is huge. I'm a Kings fan, so I have hope that Gay's talent will shine through, but he was basically being offered for FREE to anybody in the league and we were the only taker. If he is on of the top SF in the game, that would not be the case. True, he has shown GREAT in his small time here, and I would love for that to continue, but it is hard to understand how he had zero value in the league, even with his contract (which is almost an expiring deal).

Lillard has shown flashes that he could be the guy, with the ability to take over games and make huge, clutch shots. And I don't even agree that he is the second best player on the Blazers (Batum would be). I just think that Kings fans have some slight bias with Gay right now that nobody in the league shares. And I think there is more to the comparison than just numbers (especially when we aren't including usage rates, which Cousins and Gay are tops in the league at). I also have fears that a dominant big man isn't as useful in the league today that it has been in the past (where it was essential). It seems the NBA today is designed to benefit wing scorers who can create shots and drive on their own. Blame zone defense and hand-checking rule changes.

PS- Salary terms and length factored into this decision as well (just as it would if these teams were trading).

Rudy Gay didn't just enter the league yesterday. The contract he is carrying around proves that. He was everything that Damian Lillard was for 5 years in Memphis. His rep got trashed in a little under two, not coincidentally BTW coming after the too big contract. Bottomline anybody who thinks that Rudy Gay just suddenly magically lost his talent at age 25 really needs to rethink where this idea came from. And anybody who thinks that Rudy Gay at 24 wasn't in the same league with Damian Lillard at 24 should really go back and look at the sort of annual productivity he was putting out. Now Gay is back in his comfort zone as a wingman/2nd option instead of being forced to play franchise centerpiece, and magically his efficiency has rebounded. That is odd how?
 
Rudy Gay didn't just enter the league yesterday. The contract he is carrying around proves that. He was everything that Damian Lillard was for 5 years in Memphis. His rep got trashed in a little under two, not coincidentally BTW coming after the too big contract. Bottomline anybody who thinks that Rudy Gay just suddenly magically lost his talent at age 25 really needs to rethink where this idea came from. And anybody who thinks that Rudy Gay at 24 wasn't in the same league with Damian Lillard at 24 should really go back and look at the sort of annual productivity he was putting out. Now Gay is back in his comfort zone as a wingman/2nd option instead of being forced to play franchise centerpiece, and magically his efficiency has rebounded. That is odd how?
You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with every GM in the league (unless you think the trade package we offered was better than other offers). Lillard is at a similar place to where Gay was, the difference was that years have gone by and Gay didn't progress into anything better. He had a massive amount of potential, and it just never materialized to the level that most people thought it would, he is a decent 2nd option ON A BAD TEAM, which is what I think the league sees. A guy who can fill it up with no pressure, and those players aren't especially valuable. Lillard has shown flashes of the ability to preform better with increased pressure, which is where the huge difference in value is.

I wish there was a way to show defense prowess more readily than what is currently available, because I think the Portland duo is far better on that half of the game as well. Sadly all I can find is their Opponents FG% at the rim:

Cousins: 54.8%
Gay: 59.7%

Aldridge: 50.2%
Lillard: 55.9%
 
You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with every GM in the league (unless you think the trade package we offered was better than other offers). Lillard is at a similar place to where Gay was, the difference was that years have gone by and Gay didn't progress into anything better. He had a massive amount of potential, and it just never materialized to the level that most people thought it would, he is a decent 2nd option ON A BAD TEAM, which is what I think the league sees. A guy who can fill it up with no pressure, and those players aren't especially valuable. Lillard has shown flashes of the ability to preform better with increased pressure, which is where the huge difference in value is.

I wish there was a way to show defense prowess more readily than what is currently available, because I think the Portland duo is far better on that half of the game as well. Sadly all I can find is their Opponents FG% at the rim:

Cousins: 54.8%
Gay: 59.7%

Aldridge: 50.2%
Lillard: 55.9%

team team team team team.

Other three starters POR: Nicholas Batum, Wesley Matthews, Robin Lopez (thx a ton PDA!!!)
Other three starters SAC: Ben McLemore, Isaiah Thomas, Jaosn Thompson

Lillard and Aldridge are actually the two defensive weakpoints on that team. but that is as it often should be. Surround your stars with defense and spot shooting, and look what can happen.
 
You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with every GM in the league (unless you think the trade package we offered was better than other offers). Lillard is at a similar place to where Gay was, the difference was that years have gone by and Gay didn't progress into anything better. He had a massive amount of potential, and it just never materialized to the level that most people thought it would, he is a decent 2nd option ON A BAD TEAM, which is what I think the league sees. A guy who can fill it up with no pressure, and those players aren't especially valuable. Lillard has shown flashes of the ability to preform better with increased pressure, which is where the huge difference in value is.

If you've been watching Gay since coming over you have to admit that he's probably top 3 in SFs that we've had along-side Artest and Peja in the last 15 or so years. He's playing great basketball and it comes very naturally to him. And there really are only a handful of current SFs that are in a class above him, as he fits comfortably in the pack of SFs just below star-level.
So the question shouldn't be if he's a good player. He's proving each night as he goes out there that he's a good player. But smart GMs really do try to not only find talent, but talent that fits well.
When we had Tyreke and Cousins I would not have wanted Gay as a SF but would have preferred someone like Iggy or Deng to provide defense as well as some scoring. Gay had too much of a scorer's mentality that I didn't feel it would mesh as well with Tyreke and Cousins.
But now, with Tyreke gone, Gay is a perfect compliment to Cousins because he can naturally carry the scoring load when Cousins is on the bench, and they both help each other when on the floor together.

We had a clear need for a #2 scorer and we had assets that Toronto was willing to accept. It could be that other teams didn't feel they needed a #2 scorer, or felt that what Gay brought as a scorer wouldn't mesh well with their team (Just as Gay didn't mesh well with DeRozan). But with how Cousins plays the game, a wing scorer like Gay fits in very nicely, which is a great thing for us.
 
The Rudy Gay Effect:


2 things stuck out

1: Cousins has been more productive with gay another guy teams have to game plan for. Averaging 24.9ppg 12.7 rpg 3%apg while shooting 49.7%. Before he was at 22ppg, 9.9rpg, and 2.7apg shooting 48.6. Also gay has improved by posting up more 16.9% from 13.3% and he does isolation less times at 18.5% from 24.3%. As time goes on these to should get even better playing together.

Going foward to surround DMC/Gay we should get a rim protecters to start, a PG who plays defense, and hope ben can start hitting 3s and playing better defense. That would leave IT and landry to dominate off the bench.

Also Rondo should be comming back by the end of the month if he can play at a high level till the deadline we should try to offer them IT, Ben, and williams. Cousins, Gay, Rondo is a real big 3 that can contend for a ring
 
team team team team team.

Other three starters POR: Nicholas Batum, Wesley Matthews, Robin Lopez (thx a ton PDA!!!)
Other three starters SAC: Ben McLemore, Isaiah Thomas, Jaosn Thompson

Lillard and Aldridge are actually the two defensive weakpoints on that team. but that is as it often should be. Surround your stars with defense and spot shooting, and look what can happen.
They might be defensive weakpoints on their team, that doesn't mean they aren't superior to the two players in question (and that's the main reason I like Batum better as their number 2, but he doesn't have the offensive numbers, and that is all most people can see).
 
If Rudy can continue shooting at a high percentage and play #2 to Cousins, I have no problen trying him long term. We have to remember that this is Sacramento and that means the mega-stars probably won't sign here. Guys like LeBron need a huge market for marketing and prefer big city life (or so it seems). The one exception is a guy like Durant whi just loves the game and only cares about winning. I see Cousins in that mindset. He got the respect and the money of a huge contract and was handed leadership responsibility. To his credit, he is making huge strides in his game and his emotions.

Rudy seems to be doing what Wall did at UK:
1. Remind Cousins that he is the best big in the world. (Build confidence)
2. Make it known to everyone that the offense must revolve around Cuz. Thus, set him up and Cuz will do the same for you.
3. Be a great player to take pressure off. while Calipari and Malone did and do a great job with Cuz ultimately the game is played on the floor. No better way to get Cousins space than to force away double teams.
 
Marc isn't going to make too big a difference when it comes to their cap hell situation and the fact their star player is on the downhill slope of his career along with several of their other key guys isn't something they can easily alleviate. Certainly having a player to help alleviate te crush on Z-Bo in the post like Rudy would help them now.

One thing that has occurred to me it the possibility of making a move for Tony Allen if Memphis doesn't completely turn itself around before the trade deadline.

Allen has been slipping defensively the last two years. He's still miles ahead of any 2-guard on our roster defensively and can handle the heavy lifting against some sf's, but I'm wary of taking on a 4 year, $5 million contract for a 31 year old guy.