Omri!

[OptimusRhyme]

I just added a poll to to the thread about Omri starting on opening night.
So vote away fellow kings fans.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Omri and Mason started for the first time together, and Omri had a much bigger impact on the game then Mason. Only increases the chances that that Omri will be our starting sf sooner rather than later. I want him starting ASAP. He'll have his ups and downs, but he looks like he has a lot of talent, and his 4 years playing euroleague ball should make the transition easier.

agreed, were wasting his minutes and developmental playing time, if we give mason the nod over him on opening night.
Omri outplayed Mason this pre-season, has a future with us and needs as much experience as possible, as soon as possible. We dont need Mason starting and having a few good games then Westphal deciding "ooh Desmond is playing great im going to keep him as the starter and give him more minutes".. this will only hurt Omri's development, playing time and chemistry with the other starting 4 that he will eventually be playing with. Plus we want Omri to be going against and guarding the best players, which in theory would be the ones starting and not the ones coming off the bench. Hes played 4 years professional we can throw him in with the sharks right now and he will know how to deal with them.

So again he needs to start opening night. I STRONGLY dis-agree with the people that voted for "No, but in time" because last year we had to wait like the whole year for JT and Spencer to get there starting spots and they could of been getting valuable developmental playing time from the start.

Start Omri!

 

[Rookie]

I vote no, but in time because it is still preseason. I have to see how he play when the game matter.

But overall I'm please to see that our Kings looking good with lots of potential at this time.

 

[kupman]

It would be alot of fun if he did.

Reke - 20
Kmart - 26
Omri - 21
JT - 23
Hawes - 21

That would be a bold anouncement that the youth movement has arrived. Would it be the youngest starting line-up in the league?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I said "yes" largely because I really liked what (small highlight bit + box score) I saw of Rodriguez last night. I think that with his passing, Rodriguez is more suited to playing with guys who aren't as much of a perimeter threat...Mason being one, Greene (since he was so horrible form outside last year) being another. Greene got a couple of nifty passes at the basket from Sergio last night, and I'm sure Mason could do the same. Casspi (alongside Kevin) serves as a second perimeter outlet for Evans on the drive and kick. I just think Casspi's strengths will mesh better with our starters, at least for now.

 

[6th]

I can't vote in this poll, because I really don't care whether he starts or not. I am not a fan who thinks, necessarily, the best will always need to start. Manu is a case in point. He really drives the Spurs second unit and he gets lots of playing time.

To me, it is more important that your better players see the floor for more minutes and in crucial situations than start the game. I want to see Omri when it counts. I don't care if he starts or not, just give him really good minutes and have him in late in the fourth qtr. I really like this guy, but then I knew I would.

Edit: Obviously, most of your better players need to start, but not necessarily at every position.

 

[Padrino]

I can't vote in this poll, because I really don't care whether he starts or not. I am not a fan who thinks, necessarily, the best will always need to start. Manu is a case in point. He really drives the Spurs second unit and he gets lots of playing time.

To me, it is more important that your better players see the floor for more minutes and in crucial situations than start the game. I want to see Omri when it counts. I don't care if he starts or not, just give him really good minutes and have him in late in the fourth qtr. I really like this guy, but then I knew I would.

Edit: Obviously, most of your better players need to start, but not necessarily at every position.

i like this kid. i think he's gonna be a really solid utility-type SF of the variety the kings haven't had in a while...

and i, like you, am not very partial with respect to whether or not omri starts. the kings aren't goin' anywhere fast, so it doesn't really matter, as long as he gets minutes. all of the young talent the kings have need to see significant time with each other on the floor...

 

[fnordius]

I voted yes, on the basis of his seeming very NBA-ready, and because I can't think of any reason to delay his development.

Having thought about it a bit more, I guess I don't really care, as long as he gets a lot of PT. I don't think our roster will make a lot of sense whether he's playing more with the starters or with the bench guys, either way we're going to have some peculiarities which we won't be able to get around... having to play smallish ball, for example, and having players in the PG slot who aren't major 3-point threats. In a lot of subtle, or not-so-subtle ways, our lineup is kind of offbeat.

We seem to be the obvious choice for last in the Pacific and last in the West this year: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/preview2009/news/story?page=Predictions0910-Kings

Assuming that isn't WAY off the mark, this season should be about development, enjoying watching the kids play more motivated & well-coached ball, and winding up with a good lottery pick at the end.

Either choice (Omri starting, of coming off the bench) works out fine with this forecast. Just don't skimp him on minutes!!

 

[beb0p]

You need a veteran in the starting unit. A seasoned veteran who is both a leader and a gatekeeper, someone to keep things in line when things go out of control, and things will get out of control with such a young lineup.

You need a mixture of youth and experience in the starting lineup. This is what Mason is here for, to provide defense, hustle, athleticism and experience. Mason had played for PW before and knows the system, he is at a point in his career where he no longer needs a lot of shots, he is steady, not flashy, unselfish, and he is essentially the perfect guy to start the game. I wouldn't mind seeing Omri or Noc finishes the game, but Mason needs to start.

Omri's time will come. In fact, I think it's better for Omri's development to have him face second string SFs than to have him go against Carmelo, Lebron, R Jefferson, etc, right off the bat.

 

[DoDiGaG0]

Mason has done great for the limited time hes been in there and should retain the starting job.

I would love to have Omri as a sixth man playing the 2 and 3.

I think what this really does is allow us to ship out Nocioni without losing much.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

You need a veteran in the starting unit. A seasoned veteran who is both a leader and a gatekeeper, someone to keep things in line when things go out of control, and things will get out of control with such a young lineup.

You need a mixture of youth and experience in the starting lineup. This is what Mason is here for, to provide defense, hustle, athleticism and experience. Mason had played for PW before and knows the system, he is at a point in his career where he no longer needs a lot of shots, he is steady, not flashy, unselfish, and he is essentially the perfect guy to start the game. I wouldn't mind seeing Omri or Noc finishes the game, but Mason needs to start.

Omri's time will come. In fact, I think it's better for Omri's development to have him face second string SFs than to have him go against Carmelo, Lebron, R Jefferson, etc, right off the bat.

Things are going to get out of control anyways.. even if Mason starts over Casspi.. because the sorrounding talent is so young . IMO they will fail ALOT this year at alot of things with either Mason or Casspi in the starting lineup. But with failure comes growth and I want Omri out there to fail, learn and improve with the rest of our core while we are a bad team and the ring isnt in reach.. were not here trying to improve mason.

lets face it we are going to be a lottery team again this year whether mason starts or not. If things get so rediculously out of control its not hard to make a sub and bring Mase or Noc in. Your talking like Mason is the glue to this team, well hes been here just as long as Casspi and Casspi has shown alot more in that time.

Omri is also a better shooter and he will stretch the floor for Evans like someone said above. We need to make this PG transition for Evans as easy as possible and with Martin and Omri firing away at the wings and spacing the floor, Evans life is going to be alot easier. Since Evans' game depends so much on penetrating, the paint wont be as clogged like it would be if Mason was in because hes more of a post/scrappy player around the basket.

Also im pretty sure Martin is a vet by now, hes been in the league 6 years so theres your vet for the starting 5.

 

[CVKingsfan]

I am very excited about Omri!! However, I think at this point I prefer having his energy and scoring coming off the bench (as opposed to having Mason coming in off the bench). So far Omri has proven he can score the ball, however, so can Tyreke and certainly Kevin. I am afraid Omri would not be a first or second option starting but he may be he off the bench. Additionally, I like having Mason defending the other teams most gifted scorer from the start. It may take Omri a little time to learn how to defend some of the stars in this league, but it won't be for lack of enthusiasm. Perhaps we can have both the rookie and sixth man of the year!

 

[Bricklayer]

I am very excited about Omri!! However, I think at this point I prefer having his energy and scoring coming off the bench (as opposed to having Mason coming in off the bench). So far Omri has proven he can score the ball, however, so can Tyreke and certainly Kevin. I am afraid Omri would not be a first or second option starting but he may be he off the bench. Additionally, I like having Mason defending the other teams most gifted scorer from the start. It may take Omri a little time to learn how to defend some of the stars in this league, but it won't be for lack of enthusiasm. Perhaps we can have both the rookie and sixth man of the year!

We already have Noc coming off the bench. That's really the rub here. If we jsut had Omri and Mason, then one starts, the other comes off the bench, both get minutes. Mason is an experienced 6th man too. But instead we have THREE guys at the one positon, and Noc is also an experienced 6th man. So the only guy guaranteed of minutes is going to be that starter. Actually the irony was that we actually have FOUR guys, including 3 vets all of whom are 6th men types in Mason, Noc and Cisco. Only Cisco's injury even opened things up this far for Omri. let's hope we don't slam the door back in his face while searching for "veteran stability".

 

[Sluggah]

i voted yes. i'd like him to play his minutes against the better competition for awhile, unless it begins to appear that he's not quite ready. sink or swim.

 

[bajaden]

I'm a believer in starting the best five players you have at each positon. Who that is might still be a little vague right now, but I'm leaning heavily toward Omri. With the best five on the floor to start the game, you have the best chance of getting off to a good, well, start. To me the second unit is susposed to at worse, hold things to status quo, and at best, improve on the score.

As Bricky pointed out. Mason and Nocioni both are used to coming off the bench. I see this as an opportunity for Casspi to nail down the starting job. And to nail it down so that when Cisco comes back, its not even a discussion. Nothing against Cisco, but when I look at Casspi I just see a much bigger upside. Maybe, just maybe the worm has turned...

 

[rainmaker]

I would like to see Omri put in the starting lineup, have Noc backing him up, and have Mason back up Kevin. Omri can't back up the 2, so if he's not starting, he's 3rd on the depth chart at the 3 behind both Mason and Noc.

Also, I would argue, that even at this point, Omri is a better player than Mason, and would help our offense more than Mason. Of course Mason is more experienced, and would get the nod on defense, but Omri isn't far behind. And talent wise, he has more of an upside than Mason. So throw him out there and get this learning process under way!

 

[HighTopKicks]

I agree with putting the best 5 on the court to start. But, not when your lacking talent off the bench. What's the point of getting a good start and a lead, if your bench is just going to loose it for you.

Greated we're not going to be doing any wholesale swaps of lineups. There are probably always going to be some starters on the floor. But, you need to have shooters coming off the bench when Martin sits.

We can get by with Sergio comes in for Tyreke, because he'll set up our front line with easy baskets. But, when Martin sits we're going to need more scoring, and Beno is too unreliable to do it alone. That's why until Cisco comes back at full strength, Omri and Noc need to come off the bench for scoring. Maybe at SF/SG or PF/SF, depending on the matchups. The one lineup that Mason fits right now is the Starting Lineup. They don't need scoring from that position with Martin, Ty, & JT. But, we do need his defense and that of Tyreke & Martin, to keep the pressure off of Hawes & JT. We can't afford to have penetration like last year, putting Hawes & JT in foul trouble.

 

[6th]

I agree with putting the best 5 on the court to start. But, not when your lacking talent off the bench. What's the point of getting a good start and a lead, if your bench is just going to loose it for you.

Greated we're not going to be doing any wholesale swaps of lineups. There are probably always going to be some starters on the floor. But, you need to have shooters coming off the bench when Martin sits.

We can get by with Sergio comes in for Tyreke, because he'll set up our front line with easy baskets. But, when Martin sits we're going to need more scoring, and Beno is too unreliable to do it alone. That's why until Cisco comes back at full strength, Omri and Noc need to come off the bench for scoring. Maybe at SF/SG or PF/SF, depending on the matchups. The one lineup that Mason fits right now is the Starting Lineup. They don't need scoring from that position with Martin, Ty, & JT. But, we do need his defense and that of Tyreke & Martin, to keep the pressure off of Hawes & JT. We can't afford to have penetration like last year, putting Hawes & JT in foul trouble.

This makes absolute sense. Well done and well written.

 

[beb0p]

Things are going to get out of control anyways.. even if Mason starts over Casspi.. because the sorrounding talent is so young . IMO they will fail ALOT this year at alot of things with either Mason or Casspi in the starting lineup. But with failure comes growth and I want Omri out there to fail, learn and improve with the rest of our core while we are a bad team and the ring isnt in reach.. were not here trying to improve mason.

lets face it we are going to be a lottery team again this year whether mason starts or not. If things get so rediculously out of control its not hard to make a sub and bring Mase or Noc in. Your talking like Mason is the glue to this team, well hes been here just as long as Casspi and Casspi has shown alot more in that time.

Omri is also a better shooter and he will stretch the floor for Evans like someone said above. We need to make this PG transition for Evans as easy as possible and with Martin and Omri firing away at the wings and spacing the floor, Evans life is going to be alot easier. Since Evans' game depends so much on penetrating, the paint wont be as clogged like it would be if Mason was in because hes more of a post/scrappy player around the basket.

Also im pretty sure Martin is a vet by now, hes been in the league 6 years so theres your vet for the starting 5.

Martin is not and probably will never be the leadership on the floor. You should know that by now. I like Martin but let's be reasonable here, there are limits to his ability.

At a time when the teams needs stability, leadership, and steadiness, you're talking about offense, offense, offense. Offense is the least of this team's problem. Nobody is saying play Omri zero minutes. There is no rule that you HAVE to start the game to improve as a player. When you're playing the game, you cannot wait until things completely fall off the wagon before you put in the veteran to settle things, by then it's too late. And you cannot sub in the vet at the first hint of unsettlement because you disrupt the flow. No, you start the vet and when things go steady you put in the young gun. That's why Raymond Felton starts over DJ Augustin and Darius Songalia starts over Javale McGee. It's called good coaching.

 

[Bricklayer]

What I continue to be fascinated by is how Desmond Mason has been morphed into this incredibly saavy veteran leader.

He's a journeyman. A journeyman who at his best got by on tremendous athleticism, not brains, and never worked on the rest of his game. Never figured out how to shoot. Never created for others. That's a long way from some saavy stablizing leader who's going to make it all better.

I'm not going ot cry bloody murder if Mason starts the season until I have actually had a chance to see Casspi in action. And lord knows that with the complete lack of defensive willpower shown last season by our returning starters (Kevin, Jason, Spencer) that we could use any willing defenders we can find. But this dichotomoy we're setting up -- Casspi and his potential vs. Mason and his saavy...since when has Mason ever been saavy?

 

[beb0p]

We already have Noc coming off the bench. That's really the rub here. If we jsut had Omri and Mason, then one starts, the other comes off the bench, both get minutes. Mason is an experienced 6th man too. But instead we have THREE guys at the one positon, and Noc is also an experienced 6th man. So the only guy guaranteed of minutes is going to be that starter. Actually the irony was that we actually have FOUR guys, including 3 vets all of whom are 6th men types in Mason, Noc and Cisco. Only Cisco's injury even opened things up this far for Omri. let's hope we don't slam the door back in his face while searching for "veteran stability".

I think Noc is going to play a lot of PF. As well, he is more effective at the 4 than the 3 anyway. Casspi can play some 4 as well. We essentially have three guys (Casspi, Noc, May) backing up three positions (SF,PF,C). It's not crowded. And by the time Garcia comes back, someone else will be injured. It's the curse of Arco.

 

[beb0p]

I'm not going ot cry bloody murder if Mason starts the season until I have actually had a chance to see Casspi in action. And lord knows that with the complete lack of defensive willpower shown last season by our returning starters (Kevin, Jason, Spencer) that we could use any willing defenders we can find. But this dichotomoy we're setting up -- Casspi and his potential vs. Mason and his saavy...since when has Mason ever been saavy?

Mason has been savvy for a while now. You don't play over 600 games in the NBA as a slightly undersized wing without being savvy. And we all know full well a wing without savvy won't ever catch the attention of Petrie

Mason has played in more games than the rest of the starting lineup combined. The point is he knows the system, the referees, the players, their tendencies, where to be, when to switch; those are things that the Kings' starting lineup lacks. Is Mason the savviest player in the league, probably not. But there is not a better option. So Mason it is.

 

[Bricklayer]

Mason has been savvy for a while now. You don't play over 600 games in the NBA as a slightly undersized wing without being savvy. And we all know full well a wing without savvy won't ever catch the attention of Petrie

Sure you do -- you just have to be able to jump over everybody. Under that rubric anybody with enough talent to hang in the league = saavy. But when you play with your body, not your head, that effect is minimized. Nocioni for example is a far saavier player than Mason ever was, whatever the game count.

 

[AriesMar27]

instead of blaming the players for playing the same position, blame the man who brought them here... the one that decided its okay for the worst team in the nba to have 4 players at small forward and one center....

we have 14 players on this team and 7 of them are listed as playing 2 positions, pg and sf.... way to plan ahead geoff... first sign beno to a 5 yr deal, trade miller for nocioni with his 4 yr contract and re-sign garcia to a 5 year deal... which led to an impressive 17 wins last season. then he adds 2 more guards and 2 more small forwards.... all 4 of those new players are better than the players added last season.

oh and we have donte greene.... i forgot that he was on the team and that he is also a sf... thats 8 players at 2 postions.... thomas doesnt play so add him to the list, thats 9 players at 2 positions... well, 8 players and thomas...

 

[Prince_XY]

When you're playing the game, you cannot wait until things completely fall off the wagon before you put in the veteran to settle things, by then it's too late. And you cannot sub in the vet at the first hint of unsettlement because you disrupt the flow. No, you start the vet and when things go steady you put in the young gun. That's why Raymond Felton starts over DJ Augustin and Darius Songalia starts over Javale McGee. It's called good coaching.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this is as if you are saying that the veterans are always better than the rookies. There is no rule that you always have to start with your vets, especially if your rookies are the better option to start and especially when the future of your young team depends on those rookies development.

If what you are saying is right, then we must always start Udrih instead of Evans, Nocioni instead of Thompson.

Now, that is called good coaching?

 

[Prince_XY]

Casspi can play some 4 as well. We essentially have three guys (Casspi, Noc, May) backing up three positions (SF,PF,C). It's not crowded

Casspi and Noc backing up the C position?

Is this part of the good coaching you were saying?

Excuse me, but I think this is good coaching when you want to tank games.

 

[Prince_XY]

instead of blaming the players for playing the same position, blame the man who brought them here... the one that decided its okay for the worst team in the nba to have 4 players at small forward and one center....

we have 14 players on this team and 7 of them are listed as playing 2 positions, pg and sf.... way to plan ahead geoff... first sign beno to a 5 yr deal, trade miller for nocioni with his 4 yr contract and re-sign garcia to a 5 year deal... which led to an impressive 17 wins last season. then he adds 2 more guards and 2 more small forwards.... all 4 of those new players are better than the players added last season.

oh and we have donte greene.... i forgot that he was on the team and that he is also a sf... thats 8 players at 2 postions.... thomas doesnt play so add him to the list, thats 9 players at 2 positions... well, 8 players and thomas...

I agree with most of your post. What I can't understand is how some of us can go on giving Petrie excuses on the big mess he had created over the past 6 years. Some even think Petrie is a genius.

I think some of them are Petrie's children, his wife, or maybe immediate relative, or Petire himself posting in this forum.

 

[rainmaker]

Casspi and Noc backing up the C position?

Is this part of the good coaching you were saying?

Excuse me, but I think this is good coaching when you want to tank games.

I'm pretty sure he meant Casspi backing up the 3, Noc the 4, and May the 5. Obviously, Casspi at center doesn't work.

 

[ESP47]

Sure you do -- you just have to be able to jump over everybody. Under that rubric anybody with enough talent to hang in the league = saavy. But when you play with your body, not your head, that effect is minimized. Nocioni for example is a far saavier player than Mason ever was, whatever the game count.

I agree, Nocioni is the teams leader (which is sad in its own right). If I remember right, he was the one talking and calling out screens and such last year on defense when no one else was.

 

[beb0p]

Sure you do -- you just have to be able to jump over everybody. Under that rubric anybody with enough talent to hang in the league = saavy. But when you play with your body, not your head, that effect is minimized. Nocioni for example is a far saavier player than Mason ever was, whatever the game count.

You seem to have a habit of putting players at the extreme. Not every athletic wing is a replica of Gerald Green, you know. There's a middle ground there.

Nocioni is savvier than Mason on the offensive end but Mason is savvier on the defensive end. Plus, Noc cannot guard SFs. As tough and physical as he is, Noc just cannot stay in front of quick players.