Olden Polynice on Marvin Bagley

[ESP47]

I don't understand how people can forget how much we have invested in this kid. We just drafted him 2nd pick of the whole draft. The kid is a walking double double. Every mistake he makes he gets yanked. Imagine if Luka had that short of string. He's getting 25 min a game and it's sporadic. Nobody in this forum can tell me who will be playing next game and how many minutes they will be getting. This coaching staff doesn't allow anyone to get comfortable in there roles. Only fox is guaranteed minutes. You can't build a team this way

Walking double double? Every mistake he makes he gets yanked? Neither are even close to the truth. He makes tons of mistakes every game.

Kings announcers were praising him yesterday when he got to 10 points. It took him 10 shots to get to 10 points. That's awful production from a position that should technically have one of the highest scoring efficiencies on the team. A Bagley double double on most nights means absolutely nothing. It means he shot a lot, got whooped on defense and racked up rebounds by missing put back after put back.

I don't think you realize how many mistakes he makes over the course of a game. Lets not even talk about defense, where he is one of the worst defending 4s out there. Lets just talk about offense. His hands are terrible. He constantly fumbles interior passes. He has no strength. He gets the ball stripped extremely easy. His shot gets affected right at the rim as if he is 6'3". He gets bullied by shooting guards. He can hardly even keep the ball in his hands when he's inside to even put up an effective shot.

His finishing ability has gone to hell. He has no confidence. Can barely even get his hook to work anymore and he can't even complete easy put backs. His jumping ability? The guy has the quickest jump for a big man in the game and he jumps early every....single.....time. He's constantly out of position for rebounds. He's in the air more than he's on the ground under the rim and he's always out of position to be able to rebound or defend. Why would a guy with the quickest jump in the league think he has to jump earlier than everyone else?

It's because he's not a smart basketball player. No IQ whatsoever, doesn't know the game of the players he's going against and doesn't even know his own game since he can't keep his feet on the ground when needed. There aren't many advanced stats out right now because it's early in the season but as far as win shares per 48min go, he's 7th worst in the league.

 

[rosa u podne]

Walking double double? Every mistake he makes he gets yanked? Neither are even close to the truth. He makes tons of mistakes every game.

Kings announcers were praising him yesterday when he got to 10 points. It took him 10 shots to get to 10 points. That's awful production from a position that should technically have one of the highest scoring efficiencies on the team. A Bagley double double on most nights means absolutely nothing. It means he shot a lot, got whooped on defense and racked up rebounds by missing put back after put back.

I don't think you realize how many mistakes he makes over the course of a game. Lets not even talk about defense, where he is one of the worst defending 4s out there. Lets just talk about offense. His hands are terrible. He constantly fumbles interior passes. He has no strength. He gets the ball stripped extremely easy. His shot gets affected right at the rim as if he is 6'3". He gets bullied by shooting guards. He can hardly even keep the ball in his hands when he's inside to even put up an effective shot.

His finishing ability has gone to hell. He has no confidence. Can barely even get his hook to work anymore and he can't even complete easy put backs. His jumping ability? The guy has the quickest jump for a big man in the game and he jumps early every....single.....time. He's constantly out of position for rebounds. He's in the air more than he's on the ground under the rim and he's always out of position to be able to rebound or defend. Why would a guy with the quickest jump in the league think he has to jump earlier than everyone else?

It's because he's not a smart basketball player. No IQ whatsoever, doesn't know the game of the players he's going against and doesn't even know his own game since he can't keep his feet on the ground when needed. There aren't many advanced stats out right now because it's early in the season but as far as win shares per 48min go, he's 7th worst in the league.

While I agree with your analysis, I feel sorry for Marvin. He is still 21 old, not many players start their NBA careers at that age. It is not his fault that the Kings drafted him at #2 spot over future HOF. He was raised by his father who installed unrealistic expectations in his mind. If he and the Kings can afford to be patient, he would have spent some time in G-league, than playing against other teams' bench players. That would allow him to gradually improve, learn fundamentals, internalize good habits, and unlearn bad ones. Unfortunately, that is not the case, and neither him requesting isolations and his father complaining are helping.

 

[kb02]

It's because he's not a smart basketball player. No IQ whatsoever, doesn't know the game of the players he's going against and doesn't even know his own game since he can't keep his feet on the ground when needed. There aren't many advanced stats out right now because it's early in the season but as far as win shares per 48min go, he's 7th worst in the league.

I have absolutely no insider knowledge, but I'd put money on him being in the category of those who don't watch film. All of the things that you've described, they're red flags for a player who doesn't love the game and who barely watches any film. Hope he proves me wrong. Would be happy to eat crow.

Side note: the sooner Haliburton takes over this team's culture, the better we'd be. And now that we have Haliburton, the one player I really, really want this offseason is...Lonzo Ball.

 

[BigVirg]

Fox said. “Passing the ball, actually setting good screens, cutting, hitting the open man, and I don’t think we did a lot of that in the second half.” Who do you think he's talking about? I'm glad Fox said this bc it drives me insane watching him slip every single screen.

 

[SLAB]

Fox said. “Passing the ball, actually setting good screens, cutting, hitting the open man, and I don’t think we did a lot of that in the second half.” Who do you think he's talking about? I'm glad Fox said this bc it drives me insane watching him slip every single screen.

Probably why Whiteside doesn’t get minutes anymore. It can’t be because of Bagley. The commentators only talk about how great he is whenever he’s in, so it must be someone else.

 

[Tetsujin]

Fox said. “Passing the ball, actually setting good screens, cutting, hitting the open man, and I don’t think we did a lot of that in the second half.” Who do you think he's talking about? I'm glad Fox said this bc it drives me insane watching him slip every single screen.

The fact of the matter is that there are multiple players whom this could describe. Which is sort of a problem.

 

[The Effort Police]

Yo this Christian Wood guy pretty good.

And if we triangulate the numbers of games and minutes played, we can conclude after crunching some numbers that he's basically still a rookie! We should try to get on trading for this runaway ROTY candidate.

 

[Section 101]

The fact of the matter is that there are multiple players whom this could describe. Which is sort of a problem.

Except Fox and Team Bagley have been going at it for 3 years.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1345841083549323264

 

[Tetsujin]

Except Fox and Team Bagley have been going at it for 3 years.

He also used the word “we” and not Marvin Bagley, so this sorta feels like more internet sleuthing/fanfictionization.

 

[Joshoua]

He's gotten a bigger leash than he's earned this season. So what is Bagley Sr complaining about? There's been some offensive moments, but the fact remains that he's been one of the least impactful players in the NBA this year with a 20+ minute/game role. Sorry if people can't handle that, but it's been the truth. Kings have been significantly better with him off the floor in just about any lineup iteration you want to name.

Just say Bagley is the GOAT or some in here would complain

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Yo this Christian Wood guy pretty good.

And if we triangulate the numbers of games and minutes played, we can conclude after crunching some numbers that he's basically still a rookie! We should try to get on trading for this runaway ROTY candidate.

You mean the guy who has played almost 4000 minutes in the G-league and is three and a half years older than the guy you're comparing him to?

 

[Joshoua]

While I agree with your analysis, I feel sorry for Marvin. He is still 21 old, not many players start their NBA careers at that age. It is not his fault that the Kings drafted him at #2 spot over future HOF. He was raised by his father who installed unrealistic expectations in his mind. If he and the Kings can afford to be patient, he would have spent some time in G-league, than playing against other teams' bench players. That would allow him to gradually improve, learn fundamentals, internalize good habits, and unlearn bad ones. Unfortunately, that is not the case, and neither him requesting isolations and his father complaining are helping.

What are you talking about here?

 

[The Effort Police]

You mean the guy who has played almost 4000 minutes in the G-league and is three and a half years older than the guy you're comparing him to?

Qualifiers don't matter. The people making the argument that Bagley is essentially a rookie made that clear.

 

[The Effort Police]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1345841083549323264

https://twitter.com/statuses/1345842416624889856

 

[SLAB]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1345842416624889856

Thats,.. uninspiring at best.

 

[The Effort Police]

Thats,.. uninspiring at best.

He's afraid to break with his camp at best and agrees with them at worst.

Even Jason Jones seems to agree that this is just leaving the door open and now Bagley II is basically Marvin's mouthpiece. And this is from a local media member, who by and large haven't been remotely critical of him and treated him with kid gloves and softball questions for the past three years.

 

[Livinthedream]

He's afraid to break with his camp at best and agrees with them at worst.

Even Jason Jones seems to agree that this is just leaving the door open and now Bagley II is basically Marvin's mouthpiece. And this is from a local media member, who by and large haven't been remotely critical of him and treated him with kid gloves and softball questions for the past three years.

He's only been her 2 years. First year he was a rookie. Second year he had injuries. What hard hitting journalism is needed on Marvin?

 

[steelevt]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1345842416624889856

So much for treating father and son differently. How hard is it to say I want to be here and I speak for myself? If he agrees with his dad than we should treat him as such.

 

[Gguod]

He's only been her 2 years. First year he was a rookie. Second year he had injuries. What hard hitting journalism is needed on Marvin?

Its not about how many games hes played. Its the overall picture. Luka was the obvious pick and the fan favourite pick, we went another direction for some reason and thats where it all begins. To any sensible "analyst" Bagley wasnt a top 4 pick. If he was to some people, it probably was the old school guys that saw a guy that maybe could get buckets on one-on-one situations in the low post. We idiotically hired an ex player with zero real front office experience to call the shots so of cource he made the old school type of a pick that was horrible.

In a redraft now Bagley wouldnt be picked in the top 10. Thats not because of injuries, thats because of all the footage and stats (aka evidence) on him as a player from high school till this day. Thats what he is as a player in his 3rd year currently and its a lot like most smart analysts worried. He still looks like a low basketball iq player with defensive limitations, shooting limitations plus being unable to create offense for others as a passer.

if you have those limitations, you just wont be a very valuable player. He has been outplayed by Holmes (and others like Bjelica) for a while. Holmes is a backup on a good team. There is a long long road for Bagley to become a player that contributes to winning. Hes getting soft treatment by the media because most of the Kings fans are mad about Vlades horrible mistake in the draft. But again, its not his fault. That being said, these star expectations arent fair to him either so sooner we can accept that he is either a passable starter or trade piece, more fair it will be to the player himself.

Just please, dont expect the guy to be a star. Hes had enough of dissapointing his own fanbase (without it being his own fault). As long as he is a guy that plays hard and gives his all, be happy and live with the result wether its a bench big, average starter or an eventual trade piece

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Qualifiers don't matter. The people making the argument that Bagley is essentially a rookie made that clear.

Of course they do. You're just ignoring them because it's convenient to you to ignore them. Marvin Bagley will not have as many professional minutes of basketball as Christian Wood for at least two full seasons. It will be three full seasons before he is as old as Wood is now. Wood took his time to develop, but for some reason Bagley isn't given the same time to develop - by alleged fans of his own team. We have Bagley under contract for two more years, and by the end of those years, he will be about as experienced and still younger than Christian Wood was when he embarked on his breakout in '19-'20. Not when he finished his breakout season, when he started his breakout season. So if you're going to hold up Christian Wood as an example of what Marvin Bagley should be, then he doesn't even have to show it in the next two years. Hopefully he'll show it more quickly than that. But the bottom line is that Marvin Bagley gets held to a different standard by some here because of who he isn't, and it's incredibly transparent.

 

[Livinthedream]

Its not about how many games hes played. Its the overall picture.

I was addressing this running narrative that Bagley has been here 3 years. He has not. Seems like an effort to make things seem worse than they are to bolster a weak argument.

I understand you were speaking to the overall picture in your post. My standard response on Luka is he should have gone #1 if everyone knew. Instead he was passed on twice and then traded.

 

[gil renard]

He's only been her 2 years. First year he was a rookie. Second year he had injuries. What hard hitting journalism is needed on Marvin?

More excuses smh. Never seen a player get more excuses than marshmallow bag. What will it be next year?

 

[Livinthedream]

More excuses smh. Never seen a player get more excuses than marshmallow bag. What will it be next year?

Let me know when you've got something of substance to talk about.

 

[Gguod]

I was addressing this running narrative that Bagley has been here 3 years. He has not. Seems like an effort to make things seem worse than they are to bolster a weak argument.

This is his third year. This year will pretty much determine the player he will be and what he has shown thus far looks bad. His amount of minutes played during his career shouldnt be any significant factor on if he has some of his magical potential left because we have enough tape and data on him. His biggest flaws were something that could've been fixed in a film room if they were flixable flaws. This is who he is and pretty much period after that. He was drafted way too high and because of that his expected outcome is way too high in the eyes of the fans of the team. He wont be a star, for that we have enough tape and stats. What we should hope IMO is a solid starter based on his tape. You expect something more, you're piling on the dissapointments he has already delivered without it being his fault.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Of course they do. You're just ignoring them because it's convenient to you to ignore them. Marvin Bagley will not have as many professional minutes of basketball as Christian Wood for at least two full seasons. It will be three full seasons before he is as old as Wood is now. Wood took his time to develop, but for some reason Bagley isn't given the same time to develop - by alleged fans of his own team. We have Bagley under contract for two more years, and by the end of those years, he will be about as experienced and still younger than Christian Wood was when he embarked on his breakout in '19-'20. Not when he finished his breakout season, when he started his breakout season. So if you're going to hold up Christian Wood as an example of what Marvin Bagley should be, then he doesn't even have to show it in the next two years. Hopefully he'll show it more quickly than that. But the bottom line is that Marvin Bagley gets held to a different standard by some here because of who he isn't, and it's incredibly transparent.

The problem for many fans is that MB3 was a #2 overall selection from a heralded program whereas Christian Wood was undrafted from a much lower tier level program.

Of course it isn’t MB3’s fault where he was drafted or Wood’s fault that he wasn’t drafted and also took a bit of time to develop.

The cold truth is, it really doesn’t matter where a player was drafted or not drafted — all players have to produce at some point. The higher drafted players are typically those with the highest skill set and/or most potential.

But nothing is ever guaranteed. The league is always filled with high draft picks that never panned out and under drafted or undrafted players that really figured things out.

Once you get past and accept that reality, it really doesn’t matter how highly drafted a player is. They gotta sink or swim either way.

Right now MB3 is barely staying afloat if he is at all. Can he still put it together like Christian Wood has? Of course. But in this day and age of instant gratification, instant results — many fans aren’t going to have patience for that to happen.

And if I’m being really honest, Bagley’s 2 season history of injuries, slow development, and family entitlement drama doesn’t instill confidence that he’s gonna turn things around.

IMO he doesn’t display the type of attitude and demeanor of someone driven to succeed in the NBA.

IDK if Tyrese Halliburton will be a highly successful player yet, but we’ve already seen more indicators of it through only 4 games — with no Summer League or full camp mind you — then we’ve seen from MB3 in 2+ seasons.

That means a little something.

 

[Livinthedream]

This is his third year. This year will pretty much determine the player he will be and what he has shown thus far looks bad. His amount of minutes played during his career shouldnt be any significant factor on if he has some of his magical potential left because we have enough tape and data on him. His biggest flaws were something that could've been fixed in a film room if they were flixable flaws. This is who he is and pretty much period after that. He was drafted way too high and because of that his expected outcome is way too high in the eyes of the fans of the team. He wont be a star, for that we have enough tape and stats. What we should hope IMO is a solid starter based on his tape. You expect something more, you're piling on the dissapointments he has already delivered without it being his fault.

1. There is a big difference between saying a player has been in the league 3 years and saying a player is starting his 3rd year.

2. If the argument is that to be a good player, you don't actually need to play, just watch film, then I don't know where to go from there.

 

[SacTownKid]

Why cause in there third season there still trash haha let’s cuddle the guy for 10 years for no reason

Take a look at the Kings recent lotto record. That's all agents are going to look at. Bagley would just seal the deal.

 

[gil renard]

Let me know when you've got something of substance to talk about.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1345763748775038977

Here’s some substance for you. Kings are going out of their way to feed this guy, yet he’s proving to be horribly inefficient, turns the ball over, doesn’t create for his teammates, and doesn’t play D. I don’t know what his pops is complaining about, Mashmallow is lucky he’s even playing, let alone getting the touches he’s getting.

 

[gil renard]

https://theathletic.com/2298078/2021/01/03/kings-marvin-bagley-iii-trade-demand/

From the Athletic article in case you can’t access it:

It’s not the first time those running the Team Bagley account have taken shots at the organization. It did so earlier in the week when Bagley III did not play in the fourth quarter of Tuesday’s win over Denver, retweeting a post about Lakers fans not liking Luke Walton as a coach and others calling for Bagley III to play more, as well as complaining about Bagley III’s treatment and declaring him healthy after injuries limited him to 13 games last season.



Walton said he intended Bagley III to close Saturday’s game, but Richaun Holmes was playing well. He decided to let Holmes finish the game, and that decision was no reflection on Bagley III, who played just 1:41 in the fourth quarter. Walton said if the roles were reversed, he would have stuck with Bagley III, and he was sure Holmes would have been fine with the decision.

Walton, who is not on social media and has said he has no desire to be, said whatever is tweeted has no bearing on what he does.

“My message is always the same: We don’t listen to any of that,” Walton said. “It’s us within these walls, us within this locker room. We’re in this together. Good or bad, whatever people are saying, we’ve got to do everything we can to not let that affect what we’re trying to get done here.”



This, of course, puts Bagley III, who did not speak to the media after the game, in a tough situation.

He has often expressed his love and admiration for his father and family and would not want to say anything to disparage them.

But if he says anything other than “I do not want to be traded,” he would appear to be co-signing on the unhappiness of his father. That has simmered since his rookie season, according to league sources, when Bagley Jr. did not like the coaching of Dave Joerger.



The Kings’ front office promised Bagley III’s representatives in 2018, when he was drafted No. 2, he would be eased into the starting lineup by the All-Star break.

But the Kings were playing well and Joerger was not inclined to simply start Bagley III based on that promise, which put a strain on Joerger’s relationship with him.

When Joerger misspoke and referred to Bagley III as Motown legend Marvin Gaye in a game at Detroit, Bagley Jr. began to refer to Joerger as “Yogurt” as a way of saying his last name wrong.