Old Trade Thread (no longer need to post all trades here)

Bricklayer said:
Do you just have an affinity for any and all NBA *******s or what?

i could care a less about martin....ive just watched him play a great deal....apparently a great deal more than most here...

Kenyon Martin has been horribly overrated over his entire career. But now he's added horribly overpaid and in danger of physical disintigration to his list. He's also BTW more 6'8" than 6'9". He does not suck. He's a starter. But he is not remotely a difference maker. nad he's pad like one.
just because u say so, doesnt make it true....who says hes more 6'8" than 6'9"??? u??? how would u know??? and who really cares??? now, u can argue that 6'9" or 6'8.5" or even 6'8" and 240 is undersized, but its not a good argument....the dude is an allstar....and yet u would have us believe hes almost lucky to be starting....im not sure what ur definition of a difference maker is, but for someone that seems to think tyson chandler is nirvana it appears ur definition is a bit off...

His does not solve our rebounding problems.
u might be surprised...its amazing what having a physical presence inside does for team rebounding...martin bodies up on people...he creates boards for lots of guys, not just himself....for the minutes hes playing, his boarding is not bad at all....some of u are skewed on rebounding...there are 7 guys averaging 10 or more rebounds in the whole league....SEVEN!!!!

He is NOT a big shotblocker.
well...he blocks as many shots as tyson chandler....he is a legit shot blocker....

He is NOT a strong post player.

this is just incorrect....though im not sure which end ur referring to...but either way its still incorrect...hes one of the better post defenders in the league....his offensive game is not purely back to the basket, but then again, neither is elton brand's....

He has little to no ability to guard 5s. He's a 4/3 not a 4/5 and can't take the toughest frontcourt matchup.
guard what 5's??? he is not a 4/3....there is nothing about him thats a 3...NOTHING....and the notion is simply ridiculous....and why u would say he cant take the toughest frontcourt matchup is beyond me, because hes been doing it for just about his entire career in the league....u think camby does it in denver??? wrong...they would rather have camby free to play off the ball....that, and camby isnt nearly as physical as martin...martin is a pure 4...period...and one of the better post defenders in the league when it comes to guarding big men...and on the offensive end hes quicker than most eveyone and provides matchup problems for the other 4's...

He is very much in the same class with the players we have. Kenny rebounds. SAR is the professional scorer. Martin has the defensive rep. None are complete. None are elite, or close to it at this point. Only the guys we have now aren't being paid MAXIMUM money for the next 6 yrs. That's beyond ridiculous.

absolutely inaccurate....sar and kt are basically one dimensional players....they both have glaring weaknesses...and theyre both incredibly soft....martin has no glaring weaknesses...none....he is a very well rounded ball player on both ends of the court....the other two guys dont even sniff his game....considering martin has been an allstar very recently, id say that puts him in an elite status-certainly a status the others are not and never will be in.....
 
Bricklayer said:
That's just delusional. There's not a team in the league that's going to give Detroit a major starter AND a lottery pick for Darko. And we can all wait. He'll rot on Detroit's bench, and then one day or the other, by Detroit's choice or when Darko inevitably leaves them, he'll be available.

If Detroit is seriously waiting for that kind of offer, they will wait forever and get nothing at all. But I sincerely doubt they are. An either/or maybe. Not a both.

i think ur being very shortsighted...

it will take that kind of offer to get darko...because theyre not compelled to trade him...quite the opposite.....they know what they have...they know how good he is....but they are in such a special situation, that they can really prepare for their future in a way that no other team can....

they have zero need for a big guy...theyre the only team in the league that can say that...theyre the only team in the league that can afford to sit a guy that would be starting on nearly every team in the league....

so they just sit on him....thus keeping his value down....and when its time to extend him, they will get him much cheaper than if he had been playing....they lock him up long term, and then theyre set, because by that time, they will be much closer to needing him...

so they will just wait....till they get an offer they cant refuse....or till they sign him long term to a bargain of a deal for the quality big man....
 
bozzwell said:
From espn, part 1/2:

Who should have their bags packed just in case?

by Chris Sheridan, ESPN Insider

February is here, and the trade deadline is only three weeks away.

The Ron Artest trade allowed the flood gates to open a bit, and we've seen the seven-player Boston-Minnesota megadeal, the Nikoloz Tskitishvili mini-deal and the Hornets' showering of second-round picks to bring Aaron Williams and Steven Hunter to Oklahoma City.

There is no shortage of teams trying to balance their immediate needs with their long-term goals, but two franchises -- Chicago and Denver -- stand out for their foot-dragging.

We're past the midpoint of the season, and the Bulls haven't acquired any type of size that would allow them to compete in the postseason, nor have the Nuggets addressed their gaping hole at shooting guard.

Larry Brown hasn't shamed Isiah Thomas into making any of the moves he's been trying to broker over the phone, and Steve Francis has turned up his play in Orlando to such a degree that the Magic are rethinking plans to move him.

With one super-elite team in the East, Detroit, and two powerhouses in the West, San Antonio and Dallas, perhaps there's a subconscious sentiment running through the other 27 front offices that this season is a lost cause no matter what they do, so maybe it's better to put off any risky personnel moves until the summer. But that won't stop GMs and personnel directors from burning their cell phone minutes, and there are several role players and veterans with expiring contracts who stand a good chance of being dealt before the Feb. 23 deadline.

A team-by-team look:

EASTERN CONFERENCE

ATLANTA HAWKS
Status report: On pace to double last season's victory total, but still a case study in long-term NBA ineptitude.

Concerns: Having given away two first-rounders in the Joe Johnson deal, the Hawks want a No. 1 pick and a starter back in any trade for Al Harrington. Otherwise, they'll wait and see what their sign-and-trade options are when Harrington becomes a free agent.

Most likely to be traded: Tony Delk, who hasn't played an entire minute all season, has a moveable expiring contract of just under $3 million.

BOSTON CELTICS
Status report: There are some folks floating the theory that the acquisition of Wally Szczerbiak is a precursor to the departure of Paul Pierce, which Danny Ainge insists is not true.

Concerns: Trying to work a pair of 21-year-olds into the rotation at the power forward and center positions. Al Jefferson and Kendrick Perkins will test the patience of both the fans and the front office.

Most likely to be traded: Michael Olowokandi. The Celtics could move him straight up for another expiring contract. Under NBA trade rules, he cannot be packaged with another Celtics player.

CHARLOTTE BOBCATS
Status report: Emeka Okafor's slow recovery from an ankle injury and the team's current 13-game losing streak has turned this season into a lost cause, not that it was ever going to amount to anything anyway.

Concerns: The longer Brevin Knight stays in Charlotte, the more minutes he takes away from Raymond Felton. Okafor, Felton, Sean May, Gerald Wallace and Primoz Brezec appear to be the only keepers Charlotte has assembled through 1½ seasons.

Most likely to be traded: Knight could be moved to the Cavs, who are not sold on keeping Eric Snow as their No. 1 point guard.

CHICAGO BULLS
Status report: Have three weeks to decide whether to make a big trade now or proceed with plans to go $18 million under the salary cap, making them the No. 1 player in a weak free agent market and a facilitator for every three- and four-team trade imaginable.

Concerns: Also have to decide if this season of transition should include the acquisition of a center who can help them get back to the playoffs.

Most likely to be traded: Tim Thomas. Has an expiring $14 million contract, and his agent wants him moved to a place where he can reestablish some value.

CLEVELAND CAVALIERS
Status report: The impression they're giving is that they're a much better team than they were last season, but they have the same record as they had one year ago when they folded in the late stages of the season.

Concerns: Free agent signees Damon Jones and Donyell Marshall have not lived up to expectations, and Drew Gooden could leave as a free agent.

Most likely to be traded: Jones. The self-proclaimed world's best shooter bombed when he went into the starting lineup in place of Larry Hughes, and the fans in Cleveland don't like him. There's a market for a player who made 225 3-pointers last season, even if he's made only 79 this season. Gooden is also being shopped.

DETROIT PISTONS
Status report: The only big issue facing the franchise in the immediate future is Ben Wallace's free agency, but he's expected to stay as long as the Pistons make him the highest-paid player on the team.

Concerns: There aren't many when you're 38-6, but Joe Dumars would like to bring in one more frontcourt player to have as insurance behind the Wallaces and Tayshaun Prince.

Most likely to be traded: Darko Milicic. He's still an intriguing commodity to a few rebuilding teams, and the Pistons will never really have a use for him.

INDIANA PACERS
Status report: Finally put the Ron Artest Era behind them, and now must find a way to turn around a second straight miserable, yet salvageable, season.

Concerns: It'll be mid- to late-March by the time they get a chance to see Peja Stojakovic and Jermaine O'Neal on the court together, which shouldn't be too late to make a run at the No. 6 seed in the East.

Most likely to be traded: Scot Pollard. Has an expiring $6.3 million contract.

MIAMI HEAT
Status report: Pat Riley recently expressed some doubts about the wisdom of going past the trade deadline with Gerald Fitch as the third-string point guard behind Jason Williams and Gary Payton, but don't bet the farm on Riley trading for someone better. He almost never makes midseason trades.

Concerns: Health and chemistry are the biggest issues at play in South Beach, and the Heat have the rest of the regular season to work those things out.

Most likely to be traded: We'd have said Michael Doleac two months ago, but his agent says a trade is highly unlikely. If Riley could get an upgrade for Jason Kapono, he'd consider it.

MILWAUKEE BUCKS
Status report: Went 7-10 in January, a step backward after a promising start to the season. Not fooling themselves into thinking they can knock off the Pistons, but setting their sights past the first round of the playoffs.

Concerns: Add the name of Bobby Simmons to the list of players whose production dropped significantly in their first season after signing a long-term contract, although he's shown signs of turning it around lately.

Most likely to be traded: Reece Gaines. The Bucks are happy with pretty much everyone else on the roster.

NEW JERSEY NETS
Status report: Still starting the banged up and unproductive Jason Collins at power forward, but also still sitting on a pair of No. 1 picks that Rod Thorn would gladly give away in return for an impact big man.

Concerns: A lack of offensive rebounding, the absence of a steady contributor off the bench.

Most likely to be traded: Lamond Murray. There are still a few GMs who believe Murray can provide some instant offense off the bench, which he has rarely done for the Nets. Could be packaged with Zoran Planinic and a No. 1 pick.

NEW YORK KNICKS
Status report: A complete and utter mess, with team president Isiah Thomas under fire, coach Larry Brown ripping his team as quitters, and a roster stocked with underperforming, overpaid players no other teams want.

Concerns: Thomas was certain he'd be able to use the expiring contracts of Antonio Davis and Penny Hardaway as trade chips, but there's doubt whether ownership will allow him to deal them for players with longer deals.

Most likely to be traded: Jamal Crawford. His out-of-control, turnover-prone style does not mesh with Brown's ideals, and Crawford can't or won't change.

ORLANDO MAGIC
Status report: All was supposed to be rosy between Steve Francis and the higher-ups in the organization following their clear-the-air meeting two weeks ago, but some teams believe the Magic will still try to move him before the deadline.

Concerns: The team is losing quite a bit of money, and there's still a difference of opinions within the organization on whether Francis is the right player to build Dwight Howard's team around.

Most likely to be traded: Kelvin Cato. In the final year of his contract, he's behind Mario Kasun on the depth chart and is almost certain to be moved to a playoff-caliber team seeking size.

PHILADELPHIA 76ERS
Status report: Meandering through Year 10 of the Allen Iverson era, still wondering whether it's possible to put the pieces around him to win a title.

Concerns: Attendance at the Wachovia Center is an embarrassing fourth-worst in the league, and the partnership of Webber and Iverson still hasn't clicked one year after the blockbuster trade with Sacramento. General manager Billy King is seeking to trade for a player who will add defense and toughness.

Most likely to be traded: Kevin Ollie. There are teams that would be willing to take on Ollie's remaining two seasons ($3.2 and $3.4 million) to add a steady backup floor general with 38 games of playoff experience. This might be the rare year when King stands pat at the deadline, having moved Hunter to the Hornets on Wednesday.

TORONTO RAPTORS
Status report: Must decide soon whether to trade Mike James or risk losing him with nothing in return, a la Donyell Marshall, when he becomes a free agent this summer.

Concerns: Jalen Rose's $17 million salary for next season is the quintessential cap killer, and interim GM Wayne Embry will have to throw in more than a No. 1 pick to get someone to take Rose off his hands.

Most likely to be traded: Eric Williams. Of the three players acquired in the Vince Carter deal, he's the only one left. Embry is looking to accommodate his wish to be dealt.

WASHINGTON WIZARDS
Status report: Have won eight of 12 since bottoming out, and coach Eddie Jordan has received a phone call of support from owner Abe Pollin. Ernie Grunfeld makes moves at the trade deadline more often than he doesn't, so expect to see at least a minor shakeup.

Concerns: None of the Wizards' three building blocks, Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler, is much of a defender, and there's very little low-post presence.

Most likely to be traded: Antonio Daniels was miscast here after he left Seattle as a free agent, and he could be packaged with a big man, Michael Ruffin or Etan Thomas, if the Wizards got back a player they felt was an upgrade.

For whatever that's worth though. ;)
 
You're ceasing to be amusing now Foretaz.

First of all, enough of the B.S. Kenyon Martin is an All-Star the same way Reef is an All-Star. He made it one year. His career year. His contract year. And he still wasn't that great. Played in a crap conference for a pretty good team made to look better by the patheticness of the rest of the conference. Also the only year when he ever rebounded worth a damn as well. Pretty common story for the one time All-Star class of player. And yet somehow they are always "All-Stars"" forever into the future.

He is a middling starter. Not remotely in the class of the top players, but earning their money. His peers are Reef, and Harrington and Jamison and Odom and Murphy and Boozer and all the other midlevel starters and happy little tweeners out there.

He's actually one of the lesser starting PFs in the West -- there will be no more All Star games for Kenyon. Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, Amare, Brand, Gasol, Okur, Randolph, and I'm not even sure how he ranks amongst his midlevel peers -- Murphy, Reef, Odom, West. The only two teams where he has a clear advantage against in the whole conference are Seattle and Houston. He may not even be the PF with the best future on his own team.

All of which would be fine if he were healthy and paid a reasonable salary. He is not.

P.S. Detroit is losing leverage with every passing day with Darko. He is disillusioned, wants out. And will have his chance here in the not too distant future. Time is ticking for the Pistons. And their asset's value is depreciating with every passing day.
 
Bricklayer said:
You're ceasing to be amusing now Foretaz.

First of all, enough of the B.S. Kenyon Martin is an All-Star the same way Reef is an All-Star. He made it one year. His career year. His contract year. And he still wasn't that great. Played in a crap conference for a pretty good team made to look better by the patheticness of the rest of the conference. Also the only year when he ever rebounded worth a damn as well. Pretty common story for the one time All-Star class of player. And yet somehow they are always "All-Stars"" forever into the future.

He is a middling starter. Not remotely in the class of the top players, but earning their money. His peers are Reef, and Harrington and Jamison and Odom and Murphy and Boozer and all the other midlevel starters and happy little tweeners out there.

He's actually one of the lesser starting PFs in the West -- there will be no more All Star games for Kenyon. Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, Amare, Brand, Gasol, Okur, Randolph, and I'm not even sure how he ranks amongst his midlevel peers -- Murphy, Reef, Odom, West. The only two teams where he has a clear advantage against in the whole conference are Seattle and Houston. He may not even be the PF with the best future on his own team.

All of which would be fine if he were healthy and paid a reasonable salary. He is not.

P.S. Detroit is losing leverage with every passing day with Darko. He is disillusioned, wants out. And will have his chance here in the not too distant future. Time is ticking for the Pistons. And their asset's value is depreciating with every passing day.

there are a great deal of quality pfs in the west...no doubt....putting zach randolph in that group is interesting...

anyone that thinks zach randolph is a better player than kenyon martin....well....i guess it explains why they think martin is similar to reef...

martin is better than randolph and reef....much better...because the game is played on both ends....something that seems to escape u....and btw...u may want to check ur list...seems martin isnt the only one thats had microfracture surgery....yet u have no problem putting zach and amare in that group...

as far as being paid fairly....i suggest u check ur list again....go ahead....take a look at what all those guys are paid.....feel free to throw in ur poster boy, mr chandler, who averages like 6 points a game and blocks as many shots as martin....

welcome to the reality of the nba....
 
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BMiller52 said:
Tyson averages 2 rebounds more per game. Kenyon averages like 9 more points, can hit an open shot etc. So I can say the same about Kenyon's offensive game.

How is it that this guy is such a force in rebounding and block when he never even reach double digit in rebounding in his career? The closest he got was 9.5 and that was in his contract year. If you take that out as an outlier he has an average of 7 boards as a power forward, not exactly a force. If you want to talk about blocks, his first two season in the leauge are his best at 1.66, which is decent but not exactly even top 10 worthy in the league. The last few years he average around 1.2 blocks, about as good as our athletically challenge Brad Miller.
 
BMiller52 said:
Tyson averages 2 rebounds more per game. Kenyon averages like 9 more points, can hit an open shot etc. So I can say the same about Kenyon's offensive game.

Hey, what's 2 rebounds a game, in fewer minutes, amongst friends right? :rolleyes:

Duh.

here's what it is -- you play Chandler 36min as a starter and he gets you 12 rebs. You play Martin those same minutes he gets you 8. Which ain't much for a PF.

And obviously its not even close on the offensive end. Which is completely irrelevant when the rest of your starting 5 is Mike Bibby, Bonzi Wells or Kevin Martin, Ron Artest, and Brad Miller. Besides which of course we already have a considerably better offensive PF. That's not what we need. Nor is it really what Kenyon can provide. He is a secondary offensive weapon who averages 13-16ppg every year.

This isn't a game of one on one. Its a game of fitting team needs, managing a salary cap, distributing shots etc. Unfortunately its a game where size matters, rebounding matters, and interior defense matters. Kenyon is a smallish midlevel do a little of everything starting PF. We already have Kenyon Martin type guys on the roster. We need an impact guy in the areas where we are weak, and not an undersized guy. And not a guy who is weak on the glass. Not just a "starter". We've got guys who are just starters. And they don't cost us $11-$16 mil a year and have a questionable wheel.

Take Kenyon Martin, get rid of the ridiculous contract and give him SAR's instead, give him back a healthy set of knees...and then would I rather have him on this team than SAR or KT? Sure. But not by much. A minor stylistic upgrade, and not worth trading major assets for unless they be the other PFs themselves. No more productivity. And not the answer. Now give him a balky knee and a contract that pays him like he's some kind of superstar, and pays him forever to boot, and the interest almost completely evaporates. As it has around much of the league apparently.
 
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I don't even understand how this is a topic of debate. Kenyon Martin's offense numbers are the same as Shareef's. His defensive PER is worse than SAR's, and he's particularly abused by the Duncans and Garnetts of the world. He has a bum knee. Meanwhile, he's making TWICE as much money. He's about as good of a rebounder as Kenny Thomas. Plus he's a certifiable nutjob.

It's one thing to risk $7 million per on Artest, who is a 20 ppg scorer, the best perimeter defender in the league and completely healthy. It's another order entirely to risk $10-12 million per on Kenyon Martin, who is not that productive, has a bum knee and just as disruptive.

The only way I'd take on Kenyon's contract is if Carmelo were included. I'm guessing that's not going to happen.
 
Bricklayer said:
He's actually one of the lesser starting PFs in the West -- there will be no more All Star games for Kenyon. Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, Amare, Brand, Gasol, Okur, Randolph, and I'm not even sure how he ranks amongst his midlevel peers -- Murphy, Reef, Odom, West. The only two teams where he has a clear advantage against in the whole conference are Seattle and Houston. He may not even be the PF with the best future on his own team.

Did you just mention Randolph in the same breath as Duncan and Garnett?

I think there is a great separation between Duncan, Dirk, Garnett, Brand and the rest. You say midlevel, like there is some magical dividing line. Gasol, Okur, Randolph have done very little to be named in the class with Duncan and Garnett.
 
nbrans said:
I don't even understand how this is a topic of debate. Kenyon Martin's offense numbers are the same as Shareef's. His defensive PER is worse than SAR's, and he's particularly abused by the Duncans and Garnetts of the world. He has a bum knee. Meanwhile, he's making TWICE as much money. He's about as good of a rebounder as Kenny Thomas. Plus he's a certifiable nutjob.

To a point I agree.

Reef is a superior offensive player than Kenyon. It's not even a contest. Reef is capable of holding his own, scoring-wise amongst the top PFs in the league. Kenyon is not that kind of player offensively. That regardless of what the stats this year show.

Kenyon is a slightly better defender than Reef, regardless of the numbers, but only because of his help defense being better. Man-on defense, Reef is much better. It's apparent, like you mention, when he faces the top players in the league.

Kenyon MIGHT be better for this team though! Why? Because Reef is too good offensively to be middling around at 9-12 shots per game. Kenyon thrives in that range of shots. Of course, I wonder how he'd fare in a Princeton type system considering his range is about 2 feet in?
 
playmaker0017 said:
Did you just mention Randolph in the same breath as Duncan and Garnett?

I think there is a great separation between Duncan, Dirk, Garnett, Brand and the rest. You say midlevel, like there is some magical dividing line. Gasol, Okur, Randolph have done very little to be named in the class with Duncan and Garnett.

And they weren't, if you reread the post.

There is better, and then there is BETTER. But they are all upwind.
 
Bricklayer said:
There is better, and then there is BETTER. But they are all upwind.

Randolph is upwind?

A PF that takes 18 shots to get 18.5 PPG? A PF considered to be among the league worst defenders? A PF who, when combining his blocks and steals, still doesn't compete with Martin, Reef, Odom or the rest? A PF who can't seem to shoot above 45%?

At what point did Zach Randolph become upwind?

Okur is upwind?

A PF that is having a career year, but still isn't statistically anyone's superior. His team is succeeding, but the success has more to do with a great coach and a great system than himself? A decent defender, nothing to write home about.

He may be on the upswing and eventually surpass, but right now? No, he's not at that level.

Pau Gasol?

He's probably the best of the pack we've mentioned - but is he really THAT much better? This is his career year and his stats are pretty good, but nothing that puts him in a separate class. Despite his lofty rebounding numbers, he habitually gets outrebounded by his man. Despite his nice defensive stats, he allows his man to have very good games night in and out.

All these players are good ... but none are really noticably better than what the Kings have in Reef or the Lakers in Odom.
 
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For some bizarre and vaguely disturbing reason I had a dream about this trade last night. It makes very little sense, but hey, can't let a weird dream to go waste, especially when it works on RealGM:

Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Mike Bibby
6-1 PG from Arizona
20.6 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 5.4 apg in 38.1 minutes
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Corliss Williamson
6-7 SF from Arkansas
4.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 11.0 minutes
Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
6.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.6 apg in 21.3 minutes
Incoming
Tracy McGrady
6-8 SF from Mount Zion Christian Academy (HS)
26.1 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 38.1 minutes
David Wesley
6-1 SG from Baylor
10.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.1 apg in 35.5 minutes
Nene Hilario
6-11 PF from Brazil (Foreign)
0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 2.0 minutes
Change in team outlook: -8.6 ppg, -6.2 rpg, and -2.4 apg.

Seattle Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Ray Allen
6-5 SG from Connecticut
24.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 3.5 apg in 39.1 minutes
Incoming
Corliss Williamson
6-7 SF from Arkansas
4.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 11.0 minutes
Stromile Swift
6-9 PF from Louisiana State
9.2 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 21.7 minutes
Earl Watson
6-1 PG from UCLA
7.7 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 3.6 apg in 21.9 minutes
Change in team outlook: -3.7 ppg, +4.3 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

Houston Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Tracy McGrady
6-8 SF from Mount Zion Christian Academy (HS)
26.1 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 38.1 minutes
David Wesley
6-1 SG from Baylor
10.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.1 apg in 35.5 minutes
Stromile Swift
6-9 PF from Louisiana State
9.2 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 21.7 minutes
Incoming
Mike Bibby
6-1 PG from Arizona
20.6 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 5.4 apg in 38.1 minutes
Ray Allen
6-5 SG from Connecticut
24.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 3.5 apg in 39.1 minutes
Change in team outlook: -0.8 ppg, -7.1 rpg, and +0.4 apg.

Denver Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Earl Watson
6-1 PG from UCLA
7.7 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 3.6 apg in 21.9 minutes
Nene Hilario
6-11 PF from Brazil (Foreign)
0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 2.0 minutes
Incoming
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
6.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.6 apg in 21.3 minutes
Change in team outlook: +13.1 ppg, +9.0 rpg, and +1.1 apg.

This obviously isn't happening -- Seattle is giving up Ray Allen for Earl Watson, an expiring contract and an underachieving power forward. I think Houston would at least have to think about this deal, and the Kings would probably take it in a heartbeat.

And now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to see a psychaitrist.
 
nbrans said:
For some bizarre and vaguely disturbing reason I had a dream about this trade last night. It makes very little sense, but hey, can't let a weird dream to go waste, especially when it works on RealGM:

Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Mike Bibby
6-1 PG from Arizona
20.6 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 5.4 apg in 38.1 minutes
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Corliss Williamson
6-7 SF from Arkansas
4.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 11.0 minutes
Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
6.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.6 apg in 21.3 minutes
Incoming
Tracy McGrady
6-8 SF from Mount Zion Christian Academy (HS)
26.1 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 38.1 minutes
David Wesley
6-1 SG from Baylor
10.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.1 apg in 35.5 minutes
Nene Hilario
6-11 PF from Brazil (Foreign)
0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 2.0 minutes
Change in team outlook: -8.6 ppg, -6.2 rpg, and -2.4 apg.

Seattle Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Ray Allen
6-5 SG from Connecticut
24.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 3.5 apg in 39.1 minutes
Incoming
Corliss Williamson
6-7 SF from Arkansas
4.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 11.0 minutes
Stromile Swift
6-9 PF from Louisiana State
9.2 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 21.7 minutes
Earl Watson
6-1 PG from UCLA
7.7 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 3.6 apg in 21.9 minutes
Change in team outlook: -3.7 ppg, +4.3 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

Houston Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Tracy McGrady
6-8 SF from Mount Zion Christian Academy (HS)
26.1 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 38.1 minutes
David Wesley
6-1 SG from Baylor
10.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.1 apg in 35.5 minutes
Stromile Swift
6-9 PF from Louisiana State
9.2 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 21.7 minutes
Incoming
Mike Bibby
6-1 PG from Arizona
20.6 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 5.4 apg in 38.1 minutes
Ray Allen
6-5 SG from Connecticut
24.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 3.5 apg in 39.1 minutes
Change in team outlook: -0.8 ppg, -7.1 rpg, and +0.4 apg.

Denver Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Earl Watson
6-1 PG from UCLA
7.7 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 3.6 apg in 21.9 minutes
Nene Hilario
6-11 PF from Brazil (Foreign)
0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 2.0 minutes
Incoming
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
6.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.6 apg in 21.3 minutes
Change in team outlook: +13.1 ppg, +9.0 rpg, and +1.1 apg.

This obviously isn't happening -- Seattle is giving up Ray Allen for Earl Watson, an expiring contract and an underachieving power forward. I think Houston would at least have to think about this deal, and the Kings would probably take it in a heartbeat.

And now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to see a psychaitrist.

Don't worry nbrans. I had a dream we got Brad Miller a couple summers ago, and look what happened ;)
 
playmaker0017 said:
To a point I agree.

Reef is a superior offensive player than Kenyon. It's not even a contest. Reef is capable of holding his own, scoring-wise amongst the top PFs in the league. Kenyon is not that kind of player offensively. That regardless of what the stats this year show.

Kenyon is a slightly better defender than Reef, regardless of the numbers, but only because of his help defense being better. Man-on defense, Reef is much better. It's apparent, like you mention, when he faces the top players in the league.

Kenyon MIGHT be better for this team though! Why? Because Reef is too good offensively to be middling around at 9-12 shots per game. Kenyon thrives in that range of shots. Of course, I wonder how he'd fare in a Princeton type system considering his range is about 2 feet in?


I agree with you(which I don't do very often). Shareef is a good offensive player and he wants the shots(because he can make them). He can't have all the shots because this team is so talented offensively. Kenyon will give you 1-2 blocks a game, some rebounds(not much more than SAR does), better defense, and less points. Also seen Kenyon hit the mid range shot lately btw(every now and then).

I also think Shareef would be a good fit on the nuggets because they signed Kenyon hoping he'd be that second star to put next to Melo, but he's not. Camby would make up for the fact that Reef's not a shotblocker too. Shareef could probably be their second scorer.

I think it makes sense, even if you don't like the contracts Brick. It makes atleast more sense than a lot of other deals out there and it works for both teams. Even if Tyson was on the block and Petrie wanted to get him, what could we seriously give Chicago to make them consider? Their frontcourt is VERY thin. It'd just get worse without Tyson, they wouldn't have a rebounder/shotblocker/defender type player and those are generally harder to get than what we'd be giving them.
 
We need Kenyon Martin and his ridiculous contract so he can come off the bench behind SAR?

Lord, grant me strength.

If we're going to upgrade at the 4, I'm willing to bet it will be to bring in a new STARTER.
 
This is going to sound weird, but I also had a dream of Tracy McGrady to the Kings in a trade last night. I don't recall which players or teams were involved but it happened and even in my dreams I couldn't figure out what took place but I accepted it.

So, how about a group discount to see that psychiatrist?
 
And if anyone ever doubted the "lunatic" influence of a full moon, they'd just have to read this thread...

;)
 
Another "Bonzi is expendable, so let's dump him for pieces that could potentially help us" deal.

Kings Get...

Speedy Claxton... 12.4 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.5 apg
JR Smith... 8.7 ppg, 2.2 ppg, 1.3 apg
Arvydas Macijauskas... 2.1 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.1 apg

Hornets Get...

Bonzi Wells... 14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg
Jason Hart... 3.4 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 1.1 apg
Ronnie Price... 2.3 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.2 apg

Change in Team Outlook... +2.9 ppg, -4.0 rpg, +1.5 apg

Kings lineup...

PG: Bibby/Speedy
SG: Martin/Smith/Maci
SF: Artest/Cisco
PF: SAR/Thomas/Williamson
C: Miller/Skinner/Sampson

The Kings do this to asure Kevin Martin of a starting spot...I belive Martin in the long-run will be better than Bonzi, and can actually put up similar numbers right now...If we could get 14/5/2 the rest of the way, I would be plenty pleased...Also, we can now rest Bibby without the game instantly going straight to hell...Speedy provides a MUCH more than capable player at the backup PG...We also aquire Smith, who I am enamored with...Martin/Smith could be a super high-flying one-two punch at the SG...Macijauskas looks like he's a bust...NO gets rid of the contract, and we only take him to make salaries work out.

Hornets Lineup...

PG: Paul/Hart
SG: Bonzi/Snyder
SF: Mason/Butler
PF: West/Williams/Bass
C: Brown/Vroman

The Hornets do this to help their chances for THIS YEAR, as well as free up space at the end of the year. They free up contract space from the Bonzi deal and drop the ugly Maci deal...There team now has a bona-fide NBA clibur starting 2-guard to compliment Paul...And I think Bonzi's post game would compliment the play of Paul nicely...Smith is in the doghouse and doesn't play much anymore, Maci doesnt play at all, so for them it's like swapping their backup PG for a starting 2-guard.
 
I love Claxton, and Smith is intriguing and seems like a pretty good young player so far.

If we're going trade Bonzi, and couldn't get a big for Bonzi, I'd def. do this deal.

Claxton will also be available in the summer.
 
I like that idea, although I don't think the Hornets would trade Speedy as long as they're going for a spot in the playoffs. Claxton is a free agent and is probably going to be out of the Kings' range for a backup point guard anyway.

The key to the deal is really Bonzi for JR Smith, and I like that idea. The Hornets could use Bonzi's experience for their playoff run. Kings get JR Smith's potential and athleticism.

This works:

Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Incoming
J.R. Smith
6-6 SG from St. Benedict's Prep (HS)
8.7 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 1.3 apg in 19.9 minutes
Rasual Butler
6-7 SF from La Salle
7.8 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 0.4 apg in 19.6 minutes
Change in team outlook: +1.9 ppg, -3.3 rpg, and -1.4 apg.

New Orleans Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
J.R. Smith
6-6 SG from St. Benedict's Prep (HS)
8.7 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 1.3 apg in 19.9 minutes
Rasual Butler
6-7 SF from La Salle
7.8 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 0.4 apg in 19.6 minutes
Incoming
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Change in team outlook: -1.9 ppg, +3.3 rpg, and +1.4 apg.

Rasual is an expiring deal, which means the Kings get a good young player and a little bit of breathing room under the luxury tax so the Kings can use the full MLE on one of the good backup 4/5s that will be available in the offseason (Nene, Kasun, Mbenga, Elson, etc.). If the Hornets threw in a pick I would definitely do it.
 
I like that also, 'brans. Came to like Butler since last year, he's been even better this year too.

We'd have 4 young, versatile, athletic swingmen for that time. Probably could find minutes for them all because their young players and versatile.
 
I'd think the Spurs re-sign him, but I wouldn't mind us getting him.

He might of mentioned him because he had like 9-10 offensive rebounds vs. Pacers today.
 
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