Offseason plan (merged)
- Thread starter nbrans
- Start date
I had read a lot of good things of pg like Watson and Mike James. They are good defenders, but they haven't the talent of a true pg, they haven't a good vision of the court and of the game, with some pressure they get crazy very often. When you are in the 4th quarter this kind of players aren't the solution: I expect from them a turnover, a horrible shoot with 20' left on the posesion, a foul or other mistake. A lot of players that are very good defenders are limited offensively. The problem is they shoot, shoot, and shoot, they think they are superstars (sometimes Artest could be in this category too) They are good players for a back up pg, good role players, but no more. 6 mill/year??? Please....
In other thread I've read about Duhon for our backup pg. It's not a bad solution, maybe Jason Hart + Francisco Garcia for Duhon???
In other thread I've read about Duhon for our backup pg. It's not a bad solution, maybe Jason Hart + Francisco Garcia for Duhon???
master said:
Although PGs are valuable I think that there are lots of 6 footers who are good with holding the ball and decent shooting it. When we talk about athletic, powerful near 7 footers is when you have a rare find. We do needs some good PG off the bench to give Bibby a rest and this is a area I hope we address adequately this offseason unlike we did with Hart this season, that and a powerful big man.
nbrans
All-Star
master said:
Well, the Kings wouldn't just give up Bibby for Mike James or Earl Watson and be satisfied with the downgrade, that kind of a trade would involve other players who would have to have some of the qualities that Bibby brings. A trade for Bibby and change for Watson and Ray Allen downgrades the PG spot, but overall the Kings might be a better team with the things Allen brings to the table. And if the Kings got Mike James and the Raptors' 5th pick for Bibby they'd be getting a slight downgrade at the PG spot and a young PF/C who could help immensely.
ForlornKing
Starter
I think we need to hold on to K-Mart (duh) and Francisco Garcia.
They can both be all-stars in this league.
They can both be all-stars in this league.
I think it'll be the other way around, because Chicago already has Chandler, who doesn't have an inside offensive game (yet?), and the bulls desperately need size and a legit inside guy - Aldridge is that, Thomas not yet. I think Portland keeps Randolph and gets Thomas at #1.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3364 - Elson. When he gets 20+ minutes, he usually plays well.
nbrans
All-Star
BMiller52 said:
I would only do this is Noah is in the draft. Assuming that Adam Morrison also goes top 5, the Kings would get one of Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah, LaMarcus Aldridge or Andrea Bargnani at the #5 spot, and I'd be very excited about getting any of those guys.
P.S. I guess the deadline to declare for the draft passed and Noah didn't declare. So nevermind.
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M
MrBiggs
Guest
Noah = teh uberdummy
He'll be top 10 next year but not #1. I guess when your dad is an accomplished Tennis star, it (financially) doesn't matter where you go in the draft.
He'll be top 10 next year but not #1. I guess when your dad is an accomplished Tennis star, it (financially) doesn't matter where you go in the draft.
I think the past few games against SA have shown that this team is pretty good, is a solid nucleus, and has a good chemistry togetehr. It probably isn't consistent enough yet, but it is clear that a major overhaul is not needed (that has been done to death the past few years). What we need is some tinkering...
1) Re-sign Bonzi- this becomes a priority. I know K-Mart is capable, but a person taking over a game like Bonzi cannot be allowed to walk. Bonzi has proven himself. Plus- a three man system at the wings (Ron, Bonzi, Martin) would be awesome. Let Ron and Bonzi start and play about 36 minutes, and bring Martin off the bench for both for about 24. Plus, KMart can pick up more minutes if we slide Ron/Bonzi to 4.
2) Find a backup point guard. A guy who can score, defend, and have an impact on the game. This is where I think K9 has value. Everyone wants to trade him for a big man- that isn't going to happen, he doesn't have that much value. However- you could trade him to an East team who needs an East PF, and get a servicable backup point. How about trading him for an Antonio Daniels, Chris Duhon, Carlos Arroyo type guard? I know it would take some doing to make it work for the cap, but that is possible.
3) MLE a third big man- a defensive-minded player to play 24-28 minutes. I really don't know who this is, but it won't be Chandler or Dalembert. Maybe someone like a Tony Battie. Brad starts at center, Reef can either start or come off the bench for the MLE guy, and you have yourself Rick's preferred 3 man rotation in the post.
Roster
PG- Bibby, (Daniels/Duhon/Arroyo), Hart/Price
SG- Bonzi, Martin
SF- Ron, Garcia, Corliss/Monia
PF- Reef, MLE (maybe battie is he is a free agent)
C- Miller, Potapenko, Sampson
Really it would only play 8 deep. Garcia would likely be outside looking in. Potapenko would likely only play when foul trouble or injury warranted. Bibby, Bonzi, Ron, Miller would log about 36 minutes. Reef would play 28-32. Martin and the MLE guy would play about 24, and the backup point gets 12...
Seems like a pretty good damn team to me...
1) Re-sign Bonzi- this becomes a priority. I know K-Mart is capable, but a person taking over a game like Bonzi cannot be allowed to walk. Bonzi has proven himself. Plus- a three man system at the wings (Ron, Bonzi, Martin) would be awesome. Let Ron and Bonzi start and play about 36 minutes, and bring Martin off the bench for both for about 24. Plus, KMart can pick up more minutes if we slide Ron/Bonzi to 4.
2) Find a backup point guard. A guy who can score, defend, and have an impact on the game. This is where I think K9 has value. Everyone wants to trade him for a big man- that isn't going to happen, he doesn't have that much value. However- you could trade him to an East team who needs an East PF, and get a servicable backup point. How about trading him for an Antonio Daniels, Chris Duhon, Carlos Arroyo type guard? I know it would take some doing to make it work for the cap, but that is possible.
3) MLE a third big man- a defensive-minded player to play 24-28 minutes. I really don't know who this is, but it won't be Chandler or Dalembert. Maybe someone like a Tony Battie. Brad starts at center, Reef can either start or come off the bench for the MLE guy, and you have yourself Rick's preferred 3 man rotation in the post.
Roster
PG- Bibby, (Daniels/Duhon/Arroyo), Hart/Price
SG- Bonzi, Martin
SF- Ron, Garcia, Corliss/Monia
PF- Reef, MLE (maybe battie is he is a free agent)
C- Miller, Potapenko, Sampson
Really it would only play 8 deep. Garcia would likely be outside looking in. Potapenko would likely only play when foul trouble or injury warranted. Bibby, Bonzi, Ron, Miller would log about 36 minutes. Reef would play 28-32. Martin and the MLE guy would play about 24, and the backup point gets 12...
Seems like a pretty good damn team to me...
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Battie signed a 5-year extension last month.
I wouldn't have Potapenko on the roster though, unless we couldn't get him in a deal, and between Pota/Samps, I'd go with Sampson. Either the 3rd or maybe back-up C. For main back-up big I'd go after Elson/Griffin, both can play PF or C. Elson is a UFA, and Griffin has a small 1-year deal w/ a 2nd year as a player option. Pryzbilla or Mohammed would be good too, but I think they'll be too valuable for us.
Agreed on the back-up PG, except for Arroyo, he's solid, but would throw Charlie Bell or Tyronn Lue in there instead. Both good shooters/scorers, defenders, fine passers, likely cheaper (Bell for sure).
I wouldn't have Potapenko on the roster though, unless we couldn't get him in a deal, and between Pota/Samps, I'd go with Sampson. Either the 3rd or maybe back-up C. For main back-up big I'd go after Elson/Griffin, both can play PF or C. Elson is a UFA, and Griffin has a small 1-year deal w/ a 2nd year as a player option. Pryzbilla or Mohammed would be good too, but I think they'll be too valuable for us.
Agreed on the back-up PG, except for Arroyo, he's solid, but would throw Charlie Bell or Tyronn Lue in there instead. Both good shooters/scorers, defenders, fine passers, likely cheaper (Bell for sure).
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The Reef/Miller thing just does not work up front. No shotblocking. No rebounding. Assuming we can bring back Bonzi, that frontcourt becomes the real challenge this offseason. We need a new STARTER up there who can clog the middle. In fact I would go so far as to say if we're serious about challenging, we need both a starter and then another lane-clogging reserve. And if Reef or Brad or whoever survives the changes to be the 3rd big, that's fine. But the two of them together are the softest frontcourt in basketball, and that just cannot be if your aim is a title.
nbrans
All-Star
Bricklayer said:
I tend to agree.
It's nice to have both Reef and Miller (Reef off the bench and Miller starting) because they have complimentary offensive games, Miller outside, Reef inside. I don't know if it works to ship out every offensive-minded player the Kings have, they struggle enough to score points as it is. So a Chandler-esque defensive/rebounding monster starting at the 4 would be ideal, with Reef off the bench for offensive punch, and a backup utility defensive/rebounding specialist at the 5 as needed for matchups.
Starting defensive minded PF/C - 33 minutes
Brad - 33 minutes
Reef - 15-25 minutes
Backup defensive minded C - 5-15 minutes (as needed for matchups)
B
beemerr23
Guest
that lineup is awful lol, you have no experience running the point. There's no need for Bonzi if you bring in Ray Allen, he can handle the SG position fine. If you do, ditch Bonzi and keep Bibby and Martin.nbrans said:
B
beemerr23
Guest
Again very well said Brick...I've agreed with most everything you've said recently. Shareef is a nice offensive punch off the bench and does an ok job defensively, but you can't have him and Miller as your frontcourt, it's too soft.Bricklayer said:
Watson's one of the few closest to B-Jax w/ his defense, shooting (improved), slashing, rebounding, can get from 5-7 assists, athleticism. Banks is similar just not as good a playmaker, more athletic, stronger, and doesn't have a three pt shot yet (which should change over the summer).
I'd be good with that line-up, would of course miss Bibby, but Ray Allen is there. Martin/Garcia as well, but you have a good prospect in Monia, then Bonzi Wells, and Ray Allen coming in again.
I'd be good with that line-up, would of course miss Bibby, but Ray Allen is there. Martin/Garcia as well, but you have a good prospect in Monia, then Bonzi Wells, and Ray Allen coming in again.
If we don't resign Bonzi I like Ricky Davis. He's a good defender, a good passer, and not bad shooter, he is s a very complete player, young (about 26 years) and cheap (6 mill/year). He may be available if the Wolves draft a sf/sg, who knows. If they are going to look for salary cap we have the expiring contract of Corliss (Corliss+pick??)
Roch Royals Fan
G-League
Bricklayer said:
I just think that Rick doesn't like to play that way. It was very evident that this was a problem last year against Seattle. Yet, both Ostertag and Skinner (two guys who provide those things) are no gone from the team. From what I saw of Skinner last year, he certainly has the ability to block shots and rebound. Yet, Rick played him so little this year that Petrie got rid of him Vitaley (sp?) in a contract dump.
Why?? I think both Rick and Geoff prefer to play offense first, and defense second. I'm not sure that a personnel change will do us much good.
BUT I DO AGREE WITH YOU. However, as long a Rick is around, I think he will continue to make these sort of playing decisions.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Roch Royals Fan said:
To a certain degree I agree. And its why I believe that your GM, ANYBODY'S GM, has to GM to his coach. In Rick's case, I would quite frankly just take away his soft options. Not even give a chance.
Roch Royals Fan said:
With that said, I have been wondering about what it would look like if a SAR/Troy Murphy trade was made (probably throwing in other players to match up but these two as the focal point). I realize that Murphy isn't a very good defender, but he wouldn't be much of a downgrade if at all from SAR, while bringing a ton more rebounding. If we did get murphy though, we could dive head first into a Ron/Bonzi power game by adding a big that can really help to space the floor and combined with Brad will draw the other teams bigs out onto the floor creating space for Ron and Bonzi to work.
I know this isn't the direction that most Kings fans were looking in for a new power forward, and I don't really know how that would affect Kenny's game, but I don't see many players available to the Kings to adequetly play the clog the lane/shotblocker role, so I thought this may be another way the Kings could go. I think it would fit Adelman's coaching style very well, assuming he is resigned. Also, I don't think that either of these guys are big enough of an impact to worry about having to face them in your division.
I think this team has some great pieces but probably needs to shake things up a little more. I know it's an unpopular thought, but I still think either Bibby or Miller needs to go. While they are talented offensive players, it hurts too much to have two awful defensive players on the court at the same time. I think they are young enough that making a trade like:
Bibby for LaFrentz, West and Jefferson would create better depth and a much better defensive team. Not that trade necessarily but something similar.
Bibby for LaFrentz, West and Jefferson would create better depth and a much better defensive team. Not that trade necessarily but something similar.
SacKings4Life21
Bench
sdballer said:
Man Bibby is worth alot more than that... I agree we should look to move miller or possibly mike... but we need something legit in return... we must look to trade for more Defense, specifically the post
nbrans
All-Star
I wouldn't write off Nene. Denver may want to keep him, but he's one of their few tradeable assets, and I have my doubts about Denver's ability to rid themselves of Kenyon Martin's insane contract. Denver needs a shooting guard if they're going to be a serious team, I still don't think a Bonzi for Nene S&T is out of the question.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
nbrans said:
Assuming they keep the same system, Bonzi isn't the Kings shooting guard they would be after. But a couple of enders + the guard they want (Kevin) is exactly the sort of sign and trade that actually DOES happen sometimes (ending junk + a young talent). Just not entirely sure how I feel about it.
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