OFFICIAL trade thread. Post trade proposals HERE! (merged)

[captain bill]

Now, if GP could only turn Kenny Thomas/Skinner/Corliss into Harpring and Chandler...

Bibby/Hart
Bonzi/Harpring
Peja/Harpring
SAR/Chandler
Miller/Chandler

There's your contender right there, folks.

And now I've figured out how to do it:

Chicago: Tyson Chandler ($11-12 million a year for 6 years) to SAC
Erik Piatowski $3 million to UTAH

SAC: Kenny Thomas $7 million to UTAH
Corliss Williamson $6 million to CHI
Brian Skinner $5 million to UTAH

UTAH: Boozer $11 million to CHI
Harpring $5 million to SAC

I've considered swapping KT to Chicago instead of Corliss, I think they would be more willing to KT's salary instead of Utah...

I like that a lot. That team is def a contender, but Utah would need more than just KT to part with Harpring AND Boozer, Chicago might want more than Corliss and Boozer for Chandler. Nice idea though.

 

[Kings113]

Update on the Bulls/Chandler situation:

"After returning to the Chicago area Wednesday, Bulls operations chief John Paxson termed his meeting with Tyson Chandler and his agent Tuesday night in California as ''productive'' but admitted the sides still have ''issues'' to work through before an agreement can be reached with the restricted-free-agent power forward."

"As usual, the major obstacle is money. According to a source close to the negotiations, Chandler is seeking a deal in the six-year, $60 million range, and the Bulls are willing to go that high only if the deal includes incentives."

"The same could be said of the negotiations with center Eddy Curry, another of the Bulls' restricted free agents. That's why Paxson was set to fly to Philadelphia today to meet with Curry's agent, Leon Rose, either tonight or Friday."

"As for the Bulls' other free agents, veteran forward Othella Harrington (unrestricted) is expected to re-sign shortly, but Adrian Griffin (unrestricted) and Jannero Pargo (restricted) remain in limbo."

"For now, Paxson's priority is to bring in another veteran big man, with Charlotte's Malik Allen and Atlanta's Tom Gugliotta the most likely candidates."

"Tyson Chandler didn’t agree to contract terms during a face-to-face meeting with Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf and general manager John Paxson on Tuesday in Pasadena, Calif. But Paxson remained optimistic that a long-term deal for the 7-foot-1 forward will get done."

"Chandler’s camp has asked for $75 million over six years, according to a team source. That’s well above the Bulls’ offer, though they had to revise their thinking when Philadelphia re-signed center Sam Dalembert for what turned out to be $64 million over six years. Chandler posted better numbers than Dalembert last season."

http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-bull18.html

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp?id=84379


I'd dig Adrian Griffin on the Kings. As by my signature.

 

[Padrino]

damn. $75 mil over 6 years? for such young blood? sounds like chandler's agent is forcing chicago's hand. either they pay or he walks. he may take less than $75 mil elsewhere, but chicago's gonna need to fork over that much just to keep him.

 

[Bricklayer]

damn. $75 mil over 6 years? for such young blood? sounds like chandler's agent is forcing chicago's hand. either they pay or he walks. he may take less than $75 mil elsewhere, but chicago's gonna need to fork over that much just to keep him.

He'll need another team to be able to come up with that much thouhg in order to make the Bulls match. Not sure who still has that cap room.

On the other hand, I still say if he said he wanted out and wanted a sign and trade, and stuck to it, hcicago's hand would be forced. Maybe not, but I can't imagine the Bulls wanting to have a disgruntled guy on the roster probabyl playing for the qualifying offer at that rate, and ready to bolt at the end of the year.

Bulls would do well to just drop the incentives, match the Dalembert figure, and get it over with before hcandler or his agent start turning up the heat by getting other teams involved.

 

[Padrino]

He'll need another team to be able to come up with that much thouhg in order to make the Bulls match. Not sure who still has that cap room.

On the other hand, I still say if he said he wanted out and wanted a sign and trade, and stuck to it, hcicago's hand would be forced. Maybe not, but I can't imagine the Bulls wanting to have a disgruntled guy on the roster probabyl playing for the qualifying offer at that rate, and ready to bolt at the end of the year.

Bulls would do well to just drop the incentives, match the Dalembert figure, and get it over with before hcandler or his agent start turning up the heat by getting other teams involved.

good point. they probably will just suck it up and drop the enormous bucks on chandler. what's another overpriced player in this league, anyways? soon, nobody will be overpriced, because all this crazy spending will turn from a trend into the market average. it almost seems childish. imagine this:

CHANDLER: i want big money
CHICAGO: you can't have big money
CHANDLER: but sammy dalembert got big money. why cant i have big money?
CHICAGO: because you're not worth that much
CHANDLER: you mean you don't like me?
CHICAGO: no, we like you. we just dont like you for $70 million plus
CHANDLER: fine. i'll just go somewhere else, then *stomps off in frustration*

granted, mostly its all about agents demanding too much and owners giving into their demands, but what can you do? its such a ****ty situation, and you wonder what the nba might look like w/o a salary cap. cuz, as it stands, the cap doesnt do what its supposed to do. that is, it doesnt save owners from themselves and their spending habits.

 

[SacTownKid]

He'll need another team to be able to come up with that much thouhg in order to make the Bulls match. Not sure who still has that cap room.

On the other hand, I still say if he said he wanted out and wanted a sign and trade, and stuck to it, hcicago's hand would be forced. Maybe not, but I can't imagine the Bulls wanting to have a disgruntled guy on the roster probabyl playing for the qualifying offer at that rate, and ready to bolt at the end of the year.

Bulls would do well to just drop the incentives, match the Dalembert figure, and get it over with before hcandler or his agent start turning up the heat by getting other teams involved.

For that contract? I can't see too many teams looking to take on that deal for what Tyson will realistically produce.

 

[captain bill]

He's worth it. Have him locked up through his prime, he'll be 28 when the contract ends. If he wasn't restricted he would be getting much much more with teams seriously pursuing him. With the money most players have been getting, 60 mil for 6 years of Chandler is about the best bargain a team can get.

 

[Squad907]

Wait a second, you're jumping on this bandwagon too??? The Kings aren't getting back a big man in this trade, so who is going to backup at the 4? Do you really want to depend on Skinner and Skinner only? Isn't the power forward slot a more pressing concern when you already have Wells presumably backing up Peja, and Martin and Garcia able to fill in as well?

I think Skinner would be good back up PF, defensive minded and a rebounder. He would be able to get his minutes as back up C/PF.

 

[kingsofnba]

damn. $75 mil over 6 years? for such young blood? sounds like chandler's agent is forcing chicago's hand. either they pay or he walks. he may take less than $75 mil elsewhere, but chicago's gonna need to fork over that much just to keep him.

people seems to forget that chandler is just one year removed from chronic back problems that limited him to 35 games just one season ago (2003-04)... he did not even start on the mediocre bulls team, and has NEVER, NEVER averaged double figures in points or rebounds... he does have very good upside, but this is a ridiculous amount of money to throw at someone who has never even averaged 10pts a game in a season!!!!

i think that petrie usually pays and trades for proven players, not just on potential.... especially if he had to give up one of his prized players (i.e peja, miller or bibby)... therefore i doubt he would trade a proven player like peja for chandler... and on the flip side, i highly, highly doubt that chicago would trade chandler, regardless of his crazy contract demands...

 

[captain bill]

people seems to forget that chandler is just one year removed from chronic back problems that limited him to 35 games just one season ago (2003-04)... he did not even start on the mediocre bulls team, and has NEVER, NEVER averaged double figures in points or rebounds... he does have very good upside, but this is a ridiculous amount of money to throw at someone who has never even averaged 10pts a game in a season!!!!

ugh...the guy is 22. He is also a banger, and to be a banger and compete against the big fellas of the league you need bulk and muscle. He entered the league at 19, and wasn't starting for those mediocre bulls teams prior to his 21st birthday. Now, let's do some elementary logic and put these together: young kids just cannot compete at that level at the pf position unless they are absolute physical freaks of nature. He matured tremendously last season. Here's some proof:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3512/gamelog
At the end of the year, Chandler was a double-double player. Inconsistent, yes, but he is young. After turning in two clunkers, he averaged 16 pts 11 rbs against Washington. He is also a monster on defense. He cannot compete against the elite PF right now, because he is TWENTY TWO. He will get better and by the time he is due for another contract extension six years from now, (barring some massive injury) he will be one of the top PF in the league, maybe even the second or third best player behind LBJ. Anyone who says he does not deserve this payday simply lacks patience or foresight.

 

[Gary]

. He is also a monster on defense. He cannot compete against the elite PF right now, because he is TWENTY TWO. He will get better and by the time he is due for another contract extension six years from now, (barring some massive injury) he will be one of the top PF in the league, maybe even the second or third best player behind LBJ. Anyone who says he does not deserve this payday simply lacks patience or foresight.

2nd or 3rd best player in the league? I highly doubt it. I would not trade an allstar to get him, nor offer him more than 10mil/year. That just crazy.

 

[kingsofnba]

ugh...the guy is 22. He is also a banger, and to be a banger and compete against the big fellas of the league you need bulk and muscle. He entered the league at 19, and wasn't starting for those mediocre bulls teams prior to his 21st birthday. Now, let's do some elementary logic and put these together: young kids just cannot compete at that level at the pf position unless they are absolute physical freaks of nature. He matured tremendously last season. Here's some proof:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3512/gamelog
At the end of the year, Chandler was a double-double player. Inconsistent, yes, but he is young. After turning in two clunkers, he averaged 16 pts 11 rbs against Washington. He is also a monster on defense. He cannot compete against the elite PF right now, because he is TWENTY TWO. He will get better and by the time he is due for another contract extension six years from now, (barring some massive injury) he will be one of the top PF in the league, maybe even the second or third best player behind LBJ. Anyone who says he does not deserve this payday simply lacks patience or foresight.

you still seem to ignore the fact that the kid just missed practically a whole season (2003-04) just 1 season ago... being only TWENTY TWO and having such severe back problems where he missed the last 45+ games of the 2003-04 season, does not bold well for giving someone 6 years and $75mil a year...

great potential yes, but for the same reason chicago is not convince yet, neither would any other team be... give him one more full year of injury free play and some more consistency, then if he becomes an unrestricted FA next year, then maybe GP would risk sending a proven all-star in a sign and trade... right now sending a proven all-star and paying $75 mil over 6 years seems too much for a player with only 1 good, but not great year under his belt....

 

[captain bill]

Okay, I think we have a misunderstanding. I am arguing that the Bulls were smart to give him that deal, in fact it is almost a bargain. Trading to aquire him and his new contract is a different issue.

And Gary- I meant 2nd or 3rd best player in 6 years time, when all the current stalwarts of the league have gone into decline or retired. Of his class he will dominate. My guess is between 2009-2015 he will dominate the league. But not now. Maybe his price is steep to aquire his current services, but is well worth locking him up for the long term. The Bulls aren't trying to win a ring now, or even in two seasons. They are trying to build a second dynasty in several years time, and it looks like they are well on their way to doing just that.

 

[Bricklayer]

For that contract? I can't see too many teams looking to take on that deal for what Tyson will realistically produce.

Realistically produce?

How much would you pay to get a 22 yr old Ben Wallace? Except with more offensive upside.

Its another oversized contract, but the guy is shaping up to be a defensive/shtoblocking monster for a LONG time in this league. This isn't a "potential" thing. The kid is arriving even as we speak. A top 10 rebounder (tied with Kevin Garnett for 3rd in the league per 48), big time shotblocker, and all around force AT 22.

People talk about the kid as if he had averaged 5min a game last yr ala Darko. He was THE key interior defender on the best FG% defensive team in the league. He grabbed 20+ rebounds four times during the season OFF THE BENCH. I'm not sure exactly what you have to do to be established in this league, but whatever it is, he's done it. And at 22 there is a very good chance he's going to keep on getting better. As it is, here's his numbers projected out over 38min (he averaged 27.2 last year so its hardly an invalid extension) -- 11.1pts 13.5rebs 1.2stls 2.4blk. That would be kind of nice to see in your lineup -- very reminisceint of the fro'd wonder.

 

[Kings113]

people seems to forget that chandler is just one year removed from chronic back problems that limited him to 35 games just one season ago (2003-04)... he did not even start on the mediocre bulls team, and has NEVER, NEVER averaged double figures in points or rebounds... he does have very good upside, but this is a ridiculous amount of money to throw at someone who has never even averaged 10pts a game in a season!!!!

i think that petrie usually pays and trades for proven players, not just on potential.... especially if he had to give up one of his prized players (i.e peja, miller or bibby)... therefore i doubt he would trade a proven player like peja for chandler... and on the flip side, i highly, highly doubt that chicago would trade chandler, regardless of his crazy contract demands...

I asked about his back problems, but no one responded... one of the reasons why I'd be mixed on getting him.

Agreed on him getting better, he's just 22.

I ultimately don't think Geoff would do the deal though.

 

[Gary]

Okay, I think we have a misunderstanding. I am arguing that the Bulls were smart to give him that deal, in fact it is almost a bargain. Trading to aquire him and his new contract is a different issue.

And Gary- I meant 2nd or 3rd best player in 6 years time, when all the current stalwarts of the league have gone into decline or retired. Of his class he will dominate. My guess is between 2009-2015 he will dominate the league. But not now. Maybe his price is steep to aquire his current services, but is well worth locking him up for the long term. The Bulls aren't trying to win a ring now, or even in two seasons. They are trying to build a second dynasty in several years time, and it looks like they are well on their way to doing just that.

Well of his class (within a year or two of his draft year) we have players already making names for themselves like Amare, Joe Johnson, Parker, Jefferson, Gasol, EVEN Troy Murphy has produced. A couple years later we have Wade, James, Anthony ect ect.. These guys have already produced more than Chandler.

I just cant see him as a top tier player. sorry

 

[captain bill]

Well of his class (within a year or two of his draft year) we have players already making names for themselves like Amare, Joe Johnson, Parker, Jefferson, Gasol, EVEN Troy Murphy has produced. A couple years later we have Wade, James, Anthony ect ect.. These guys have already produced more than Chandler.

I just cant see him as a top tier player. sorry

Stoudemire, okay. James, yes, already said that. The rest are just vanilla. Will be good players, maybe all-stars, but not world-beater types. The Dwyane Wades of the world are Vince Carter, TMac, Kobe, guys who are unquestionably filled with enormous talent but not the type that brings in a ring. Chandler will be a Garnett, a Duncan, a Wallace or a Shaq. The one who brings thoughts of a ring with his name, not the one that requires pieces built around him to succeed. The one who will make a team with his mere presence.

Time will tell.

 

[kingsofnba]

Stoudemire, okay. James, yes, already said that. The rest are just vanilla. Will be good players, maybe all-stars, but not world-beater types. The Dwyane Wades of the world are Vince Carter, TMac, Kobe, guys who are unquestionably filled with enormous talent but not the type that brings in a ring. Chandler will be a Garnett, a Duncan, a Wallace or a Shaq. The one who brings thoughts of a ring with his name, not the one that requires pieces built around him to succeed. The one who will make a team with his mere presence.

Time will tell.

i think that all the chandler dreaming is great, but the chances of the bulls trading him away are very, very slim, probably closer to no chance... i think that eddy curry would be a more likely canidate for the bulls to let go, because of his heart problems... i fully expect chandler to resign with the bulls for a long term contract soon...

 

[ParniValjak]

Stoudemire, okay. James, yes, already said that. The rest are just vanilla. Will be good players, maybe all-stars, but not world-beater types. The Dwyane Wades of the world are Vince Carter, TMac, Kobe, guys who are unquestionably filled with enormous talent but not the type that brings in a ring. Chandler will be a Garnett, a Duncan, a Wallace or a Shaq. The one who brings thoughts of a ring with his name, not the one that requires pieces built around him to succeed. The one who will make a team with his mere presence.

Time will tell.

First of all Garnett is yet to win the ring despite having some very good pieces around him. Secondly, Wallace (I assume you are talking about Ben) is NOT the player you build around. He is a valuabe piece rather than THE foundation.

Now, Chandler will NEVER reach the level of Garnett or Duncan. At best, he will be a better version of Marcus Camby or Ben Wallace. A vlauable piece but no the foundation.

He doesn't have the all around skills that makes the likes of Garnett or Duncan what they are (ie franchise players). Chandler will be a defensive specialist. He will never be a complete player.

Wallace might be a great defensive player but he is no superstar either.

 

[kingsofnba]

KT and Corliss for PJ Brown and George Lynch(or S&T Casey Jacobson)

with all this talk of getting defensive players, lets be more realistic in our trade suggestion... no matter how good GP is he is not going to get KG, Brand or Chandler in a trade.... a realistic trade that may work for both teams is...

Kenny Thomas and Corliss Williamson for PJ Brown and George Lynch (or S&TCasey Jacobson)...

this trade will give the kings a tough guy, hard nosed defender in PJ Brown... this would give the kings a tough, defensive guy to help out Miller and SAR, like a charles oakley, "ENFORCER" type...the kings would also be in much better salary cap position, because PJ has only two years left at $8mil/year and Lynch is an ending contract...kings would save about $26mil with this deal... of course the draw back would be the age (35 years old) of PJ and Lynch.... but, if Jacobson is included instead of Lynch, he would be the long range bomber that GP loves...

For the hornets, they are having trouble getting anybody to even sign with them... they may not even make the minimum nba salary requirement... they will be looking for some bodies to fill roles and they are in deep rebuilding mode... they will be looking for younger bodies to fill roles... KT would start on the hornets and Corliss could push for a starting SF spot on this team....

this is a win-win for both teams.... Kings get some defensive grit and hornets gets a younger starting PF...

 

[whozit]

Might have to throw in a pick for the Hornets to bite.

 

[Bricklayer]

Might have to throw in a pick for the Hornets to bite.

I don't know about that -- PJ Brown and George Lynch are old enough to come down with alzheimer's any year now. Not of much use to a long term rebuilding effort such as the one the Hornets have going on. As with anything else involving KT, it would depend on just ho ad verse they would be to that contract.

 

[Gary]

Stoudemire, okay. James, yes, already said that. The rest are just vanilla. Will be good players, maybe all-stars, but not world-beater types. The Dwyane Wades of the world are Vince Carter, TMac, Kobe, guys who are unquestionably filled with enormous talent but not the type that brings in a ring. Chandler will be a Garnett, a Duncan, a Wallace or a Shaq. The one who brings thoughts of a ring with his name, not the one that requires pieces built around him to succeed. The one who will make a team with his mere presence.

Time will tell.

Im just saying those people have accomplished more (stat wise) than Chandler to this date. I just don't see Chandler as being anythign other than a roleplayer. I hope I am wrong but I don't see it.

 

[Kings113]

with all this talk of getting defensive players, lets be more realistic in our trade suggestion... no matter how good GP is he is not going to get KG, Brand or Chandler in a trade.... a realistic trade that may work for both teams is...

Kenny Thomas and Corliss Williamson for PJ Brown and George Lynch (or S&TCasey Jacobson)...

this trade will give the kings a tough guy, hard nosed defender in PJ Brown... this would give the kings a tough, defensive guy to help out Miller and SAR, like a charles oakley, "ENFORCER" type...the kings would also be in much better salary cap position, because PJ has only two years left at $8mil/year and Lynch is an ending contract...kings would save about $26mil with this deal... of course the draw back would be the age (35 years old) of PJ and Lynch.... but, if Jacobson is included instead of Lynch, he would be the long range bomber that GP loves...

For the hornets, they are having trouble getting anybody to even sign with them... they may not even make the minimum nba salary requirement... they will be looking for some bodies to fill roles and they are in deep rebuilding mode... they will be looking for younger bodies to fill roles... KT would start on the hornets and Corliss could push for a starting SF spot on this team....

this is a win-win for both teams.... Kings get some defensive grit and hornets gets a younger starting PF...

I would dig that, PJ Brown I'd welcome to Sac. Age doesn't seem to be much of a factor. Jacobsen seems like a decent player, and a really good shooter. Lynch I don't know much about other than he's older and out of UNC, may of heard he's had some injuries also. At PF for us, we could always get another PF, or could keep Darius or have Skinner there.

About Corliss to SF at Hornets, they currently have JR Smith there, while the lithuanian they signed, Arvydas Macijauskas to a 3-year deal, will be at SG. Which is what they said after. So, I'd think Corliss would back-up JR.

 

[ONEZERO]

I have the same feeling that brick has sometimes.... And that feeling is that we have our "core" and they are getting a little old.... Now we have a lot of pieces that can get us a ring, but its hard to tell if we should make moves for our future or make moves for winning a title now... I would prefer we make moves for a title now because I fear we could waste the oppurtunity of having bibby, peja, and miller and now also with the additions of SAR and bonzi....

So petrie, please make the right trades.

 

[Squad907]

I agree with pushing for a title now. With Peja going into a contract year, it would be in his best interest to put it all out if he wants max money, which he will probably get anyways. Our core is getting old, but has a lot of experience. A real tough guy and defensive big man may be enough to push us over and at least get us back to the WCF. PJ Brown would be good for the now and I think it would be a good trade for both us and the hornets.

 

[whozit]

I don't know about that -- PJ Brown and George Lynch are old enough to come down with alzheimer's any year now. Not of much use to a long term rebuilding effort such as the one the Hornets have going on. As with anything else involving KT, it would depend on just ho ad verse they would be to that contract.

The pick would be a possible antidote to that aversion, if needed. PJ Brown only has a two year contract and for a long term rebuilding project that ain't too bad. Being stymied with a five year contract could hamper the rebuilding process.

 

[whozit]

Reports out of Chicago are that the Bulls are reluctant to give Curry anything more than a one year contract because of his heart (insurance reasons). He has a qualifying offer of $5.14 million on the table. There has also been a 3 year proposal that the Bulls are reluctant on. It was mentioned that there is ~slim chance on a S&T. Would the Kings gamble on the insurance? A insurance agent stated that insurance couldn't be obtained unless he went a year w/o a episode and that was the cause for the Bulls reluctance. Is there anything the Kings could offer? Skinner and his two year contract at ~$4.95 million?

 

[Bricklayer]

Reports out of Chicago are that the Bulls are reluctant to give Curry anything more than a one year contract because of his heart (insurance reasons). He has a qualifying offer of $5.14 million on the table. There has also been a 3 year proposal that the Bulls are reluctant on. It was mentioned that there is ~slim chance on a S&T. Would the Kings gamble on the insurance? A insurance agent stated that insurance couldn't be obtained unless he went a year w/o a episode and that was the cause for the Bulls reluctance. Is there anything the Kings could offer? Skinner and his two year contract at ~$4.95 million?

You know, this is something that has been brought up before, and there is no doubt that Curry is a PROLIFIC low post scorer. One of the best in the league. On the other hand though, he does NOTHING else, and certainly can't help us in those areas where we are weak. He is lousy rebounder, bad help defender, doesn't pass -- he's a one trick pony. Almost a low post roleplayer. And so in order to help, he HAS to be scoring. In fact given his efficiency down in there, you can make a good argument he shouls be your #1 option while he's on the floor. But where would the shots come from for him given our 5 scoring amigos?

I think Chciago was more interested in Chandler even before the heart issues, and with good reason.

 

[nbrans]

You know, this is something that has been brought up before, and there is no doubt that Curry is a PROLIFIC low post scorer. One of the best in the league. On the other hand though, he does NOTHING else, and certainly can't help us in those areas where we are weak. He is lousy rebounder, bad help defender, doesn't pass -- he's a one trick pony. Almost a low post roleplayer. And so in order to help, he HAS to be scoring. In fact given his efficiency down in there, you can make a good argument he shouls be your #1 option while he's on the floor. But where would the shots come from for him given our 5 scoring amigos?

I think Chciago was more interested in Chandler even before the heart issues, and with good reason.

Agree 100% with your assessment. Curry also has always seemed to me like a player a couple years removed from Shawn Kemp/Vin Baker land -- tantalizing talent, complete knucklehead.

At the same time, if the Kings acquired him in a S&T for KT or Skinner I'd be pretty excited to have him as a backup 4/5. Would not help out in defense or rebounding at all, but what potential!