OFFICIAL trade thread. Post trade proposals HERE! (merged)

[captain bill]

i can see no scenario where chicago trades him for someone like peja...

I see several. The largest Serbian community in the world outside of Serbia is in the Chicago area. Peja alone would help sell out the Chicago arena every night. Second, the Bulls have a bunch of young kids none of which are the pure shooter/scorer that Peja is. and Third, with such good PG's the Bulls run and gun well. Peja fits that scheme well as we all know.

Chandler for Peja may be the only one for one trade that makes sense. But if it does, when do you do it? Now. A bit early but better than in February. Or do you wait until after the finals. We win the finals, then its a tough decision. We don't then we see what we need and it likely is a Chandler type.

I interviewed him the summer he came into the league and he comes off as a real nice, polite and mature kid. I could not say the same about Curry. A nice kid but far more immature than was Chandler.

I agree- right now Chicago is overloaded with young talented defenders and lack any true scorers that can make a huge impact. I think Peja could turn that team into contenders-especially considering that he isn't that bad on D himself. If the east wasn't so tough right now, I'd say that Chicago would have a shot at the finals with Peja on board. (seems so wierd to write that...the east, good?)

 

[Kings113]

Ben Gordon made quite an impact since January or so when the Bulls made their second season half + turn around . He's more than proven. They also got Deng. Both are very good scorers.

Unless you mean all-star/high quality... obviously not yet.

 

[Bricklayer]

I agree- right now Chicago is overloaded with young talented defenders and lack any true scorers that can make a huge impact. I think Peja could turn that team into contenders-especially considering that he isn't that bad on D himself. If the east wasn't so tough right now, I'd say that Chicago would have a shot at the finals with Peja on board. (seems so wierd to write that...the east, good?)

They may be overloaded with young defenders, but the only guy who is a force as an INTERIOR defender is Chandler. Even if he were on the market, that would be a huge stumbling block for us since we have precious few of that type of player to offer back. He is basically all of their shotblocking (Davis having lost that ability, Harrington and Curry never having had it).

 

[ParniValjak]

Mike Bibby. Granted, he was aquired for a player of the same age, but JWill at the time had "proven" more by taking the Kings into the playoffs and having some great success. The fact that GP has not traded for a young kid is probably just an accident of chance, as it is very rare for any vet to be traded for a young kid. Look at all the "big" trades in the NBA- almost all notable trades are for proven vets, because that is why they are notable. Just this year GP traded for the young Jason Hart. Granted, Hart is not Chandler, but the Hart deal, barring some huge emergence, will be a footnote of GP's history. There are so few opportunities to aquire great young talent that I doubt any GM in the history of the NBA, or any sport, can gain a history of trading talented vets for young talent.

Read what I posted again. And this time s-l-o-w-l-y.

When Petrie deals one of his best proven players its for a proven player not a kid with potential.

but JWill at the time had "proven" more by taking the Kings into the playoffs and having some great success

What has that got to do with anything?????? JWill took the Kings to the playoffs. What a flawed argument, if the roles were switched, would JWill have taken Grizzlies to the playoffs??????

Seriously what kind of argument is that?????? GP looks at the quality of the player, not if he has played in the playoffs. At the time GP traaded JWill, Bibby has proven to be one of the best young PGs in the league. He traded a young player (JWill) for a better young player (JWill). In his last year in SAC, JWill averaged 9.4 ppg, 5.4apg, and shot the ball at .407. Now Bibby in his last year with VAN averaged, 15.9ppg, 8.4apg and shot the ball at .454 from the field. Blind Freddy could see he was getting a much better player in return.

This notion of proving yourself as a player by playing in the play-offs is rather flawed. A very flawed logic. Petrie looks at a player individually, not what he has done with him team. If Petrie thinks the player is a good fit, he will go for him, if not he will look else where.

As for Jason Hart, he is hardly young. He is 27. Thats 5 year difference between him and Chandler. Did Petrie trade a proven all star for "young" Jason Hart?????? No he got him on the cheap.

I am yet to see Petrie, in his entire career as a GM trade a proven veteran for a young kid with potential. Until he does I stick by my theory

 

[captain bill]

Read what I posted again. And this time s-l-o-w-l-y.

When Petrie deals one of his best proven players its for a proven player not a kid with potential.

...

I am yet to see Petrie, in his entire career as a GM trade a proven veteran for a young kid with potential. Until he does I stick by my theory

Okay, let me simplify what I said. Petire nor any other GM would do this because it is so rare that a player with such enormous potential would ever be on the trading block. It is extraodinarily unlikely that any of the baby Bulls would be traded because they are young and will without a doubt become impact players in the NBA. It is simply not possible for any GM to create a track record of aquiring such players. Bibby and Hart are not comprable simply because they are not as good of players and thus did not require a huge return. Prior to trading Webber, GP did not have a reputation of trading away his core players to try to rebuild or reload the team. Same thing. Simply because something hasn't been done doesn't mean it won't be done, only that the right circumstance has not arisen.

 

[Jkbiker]

Brick will be pleased with this one!

Former Timberwolves point guard Sam Cassell, traded last week to the Los Angeles Clippers, envisions a great season for himself in 2005-06 and a really, really long one for his former team.

"They're going to be at the bottom again," said Cassell, predicting in a telephone interview Wednesday that the lowly Clippers -- who haven't reached the playoffs since 1997 or won a postseason game since 1994 -- will pass the Wolves in the Western Conference standings.

Cassell also took a poke at one of the Minnesota franchise's most sensitive spots: "I know for a fact that Kevin Garnett is disappointed. Kevin wants some guys he can go to war with

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1405/5566039.html


Woohoo Brick, opportunity may be knocking!

Kevin is disappointed, Wolves head for the cellar, Petrie has pieces

Hmmmmm good things could develop, time for Brick to start sending all those trade proposals over to GP's desk

 

[Bricklayer]

Former Timberwolves point guard Sam Cassell, traded last week to the Los Angeles Clippers, envisions a great season for himself in 2005-06 and a really, really long one for his former team.

"They're going to be at the bottom again," said Cassell, predicting in a telephone interview Wednesday that the lowly Clippers -- who haven't reached the playoffs since 1997 or won a postseason game since 1994 -- will pass the Wolves in the Western Conference standings.

Cassell also took a poke at one of the Minnesota franchise's most sensitive spots: "I know for a fact that Kevin Garnett is disappointed. Kevin wants some guys he can go to war with

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1405/5566039.html


Woohoo Brick, opportunity may be knocking!

Kevin is disappointed, Wolves head for the cellar, Petrie has pieces

Hmmmmm good things could develop, time for Brick to start sending all those trade proposals over to GP's desk

And the pieces all fall in place for my master plan...MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

As an aside, apparently Cassell, unmitigated *** that he has always been, is refusing to take his physical for the Clippers until/unless they extend his contract for two more years, so there is even a chance the whole thing could be off, although I doubt it.

 

[Squad907]

Here I go again...With NY looking to deal Hardaway's enourmous contract try this with the UT senerio:
KT-->UT
Harpring-->Sac
Boozer & Collins-->NY
Hardaway-->UT

NY would bit because of the obvious, ridding them selves of Hardaways contract and recieving Boozer (even though he has one himself). Gives them a REAL pf in the east along with a back up center since they won't be able to get Diop.
UT might do it because they get rid of Boozer's contract, get a cheaper version in KT, and get a SG with an expiring contract who could still produce. Hardaway could also play PG and mentor Williams.
And wa-la, we get Harpring

 

[Kings113]

I dig it a lot.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

Here I go again...With NY looking to deal Hardaway's enourmous contract try this with the UT senerio:
KT-->UT
Harpring-->Sac
Boozer & Collins-->NY
Hardaway-->UT

NY would bit because of the obvious, ridding them selves of Hardaways contract and recieving Boozer (even though he has one himself). Gives them a REAL pf in the east along with a back up center since they won't be able to get Diop.
UT might do it because they get rid of Boozer's contract, get a cheaper version in KT, and get a SG with an expiring contract who could still produce. Hardaway could also play PG and mentor Williams.
And wa-la, we get Harpring

Not a bad idea, but Darius would have to be re-signed in order for this to really work because if he's not then there is no backup PF to Shareef.

 

[nbrans]

Here I go again...With NY looking to deal Hardaway's enourmous contract try this with the UT senerio:
KT-->UT
Harpring-->Sac
Boozer & Collins-->NY
Hardaway-->UT

NY would bit because of the obvious, ridding them selves of Hardaways contract and recieving Boozer (even though he has one himself). Gives them a REAL pf in the east along with a back up center since they won't be able to get Diop.
UT might do it because they get rid of Boozer's contract, get a cheaper version in KT, and get a SG with an expiring contract who could still produce. Hardaway could also play PG and mentor Williams.
And wa-la, we get Harpring

I don't quite understand why the Kings would do that trade. Harpring wouldn't get any minutes behind Peja and the Kings lose their best backup 4. I would think that the only reason to trade KT would be for a bigger big man. Otherwise why the rush to trade him?

 

[Kings113]

Harpring would get minutes behind Peja and Bonzi, if not him, James Jones or Barnes would be backing up Peja w/ a little bit for Bonzi as well. The youngsters would still get minutes just vice versa of course with Bonzi and Peja.

I think we'll be getting another big man, and probably another player.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't quite understand why the Kings would do that trade. Harpring wouldn't get any minutes behind Peja and the Kings lose their best backup 4. I would think that the only reason to trade KT would be for a bigger big man. Otherwise why the rush to trade him?

Harpring would be a perfect swingman off the bench behind Peja AND Bonzi. Probably eat just about the full 24min (or whatever) available at those positions and make us largely immune to injuries there. Bad for the kids -- but the time for our starters to win is NOW, so getting a perfect fit 6th man type like Harpring would be golden. Good smarts, good toughness, score inside and out. We'd be completely set at the 1/2/3.

Meanwhile, KT is mostly a pure small 4 -- Harpring eats the minutes he would have eaten at SF (if indeed he would have eaten any) and there are only about 10-12 available behind SAR. Not worth it, and for our needs a bigger more defensive player is a better fit to gret those minutes anyway. A new Pollard, whether it be Skinner or somebody better. Meanwhile we've shed a bad longterm cotnract and gotten back an ending contract in Harpring. We'd also be in much better position for next summer if Peja decided to walk. Ltos of "flexibility" as Geoff would say.

Its a clear win all the way around for us. But you're depending on Zeke continuing to be an idiot. Actually that's a pretty safe bet. So you're also depending on Larry Brown being an idiot (not sure if he was involved in the KT signing before he left Philly, or left Philly BECAUSE of the KT signing ), and on Jerry Sloan in his dotage being able to put up with a brainless heaver like Crawford. The anti-Stockton/Hornacek.

 

[nbrans]

Harpring would be a perfect swingman off the bench behind Peja AND Bonzi. Probably eat just about the full 24min (or whatever) available at those positions and make us largely immune to injuries there. Bad for the kids -- but the time for our starters to win is NOW, so getting a perfect fit 6th man type like Harpring would be golden. Good smarts, good toughness, score inside and out. We'd be completely set at the 1/2/3.

Meanwhile, KT is mostly a pure small 4 -- Harpring eats the minutes he would have eaten at SF (if indeed he would have eaten any) and there are only about 10-12 available behind SAR. Not worth it, and for our needs a bigger more defensive player is a better fit to gret those minutes anyway. A new Pollard, whether it be Skinner or somebody better. Meanwhile we've shed a bad longterm cotnract and gotten back an ending contract in Harpring. We'd also be in much better position for next summer if Peja decided to walk. Ltos of "flexibility" as Geoff would say.

Wait a second, you're jumping on this bandwagon too??? The Kings aren't getting back a big man in this trade, so who is going to backup at the 4? Do you really want to depend on Skinner and Skinner only? Isn't the power forward slot a more pressing concern when you already have Wells presumably backing up Peja, and Martin and Garcia able to fill in as well?

 

[Diabeticwonder]

Wait a second, you're jumping on this bandwagon too??? The Kings aren't getting back a big man in this trade, so who is going to backup at the 4? Do you really want to depend on Skinner and Skinner only? Isn't the power forward slot a more pressing concern when you already have Wells presumably backing up Peja, and Martin and Garcia able to fill in as well?

Resign Darius and there's the backup PF.

 

[Kings113]

Bonzi won't be our back-up SF, he'll play SF at times, but won't be the primary one.

 

[nbrans]

Resign Darius and there's the backup PF.

I like Darius, but the Kings need a rebounder off the bench. Kenny Thomas is the best rebounding option available, and he's got athleticism and energy to provide a spark.

 

[Kings113]

Harpring would be a perfect swingman off the bench behind Peja AND Bonzi. Probably eat just about the full 24min (or whatever) available at those positions and make us largely immune to injuries there. Bad for the kids -- but the time for our starters to win is NOW, so getting a perfect fit 6th man type like Harpring would be golden. Good smarts, good toughness, score inside and out. We'd be completely set at the 1/2/3.

Meanwhile, KT is mostly a pure small 4 -- Harpring eats the minutes he would have eaten at SF (if indeed he would have eaten any) and there are only about 10-12 available behind SAR. Not worth it, and for our needs a bigger more defensive player is a better fit to gret those minutes anyway. A new Pollard, whether it be Skinner or somebody better. Meanwhile we've shed a bad longterm cotnract and gotten back an ending contract in Harpring. We'd also be in much better position for next summer if Peja decided to walk. Ltos of "flexibility" as Geoff would say.

Its a clear win all the way around for us. But you're depending on Zeke continuing to be an idiot. Actually that's a pretty safe bet. So you're also depending on Larry Brown being an idiot (not sure if he was involved in the KT signing before he left Philly, or left Philly BECAUSE of the KT signing ), and on Jerry Sloan in his dotage being able to put up with a brainless heaver like Crawford. The anti-Stockton/Hornacek.

I can agree with that.

If not Darius, have it be Skinner or find someone else.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Harpring would fit the Hedo role, with Skinner (or Rasho, Booth, whomever, filling the Pollard role)

Bibby/Hart
Bonzi/Harpring
Peja/Harpring
SAR/Skinner
Miller/Skinner

Is a very solid 8-man rotation, and since we're serious about trying to contend now before the core gets too old, an 8 man rotation is what we'll likely see from Adelman. I would only like to see us pick up another 7 footer, as Pollard was 6'11", and Skinner is only 6'9". Plus, it's more than likely that Miller will go down for another 10 games or so in the last half of the season. Thus, the aforementioned Corliss for Rasho swap...

 

[Kings113]

Harpring would fit the Hedo role, with Skinner (or Rasho, Booth, whomever, filling the Pollard role)

Bibby/Hart
Bonzi/Harpring
Peja/Harpring
SAR/Skinner
Miller/Skinner

Is a very solid 8-man rotation, and since we're serious about trying to contend now before the core gets too old, an 8 man rotation is what we'll likely see from Adelman. I would only like to see us pick up another 7 footer, as Pollard was 6'11", and Skinner is only 6'9". Plus, it's more than likely that Miller will go down for another 10 games or so in the last half of the season. Thus, the aforementioned Corliss for Rasho swap...

Booth - not happening.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Now, if GP could only turn Kenny Thomas/Skinner/Corliss into Harpring and Chandler...

Bibby/Hart
Bonzi/Harpring
Peja/Harpring
SAR/Chandler
Miller/Chandler

There's your contender right there, folks.

And now I've figured out how to do it:

Chicago: Tyson Chandler ($11-12 million a year for 6 years) to SAC
Erik Piatowski $3 million to UTAH

SAC: Kenny Thomas $7 million to UTAH
Corliss Williamson $6 million to CHI
Brian Skinner $5 million to UTAH

UTAH: Boozer $11 million to CHI
Harpring $5 million to SAC

I've considered swapping KT to Chicago instead of Corliss, I think they would be more willing to KT's salary instead of Utah...

 

[BobbyJ_for3!]

Now, if GP could only turn Kenny Thomas/Skinner/Corliss into Harpring and Chandler...

interesting thought....

we'd essentially be trading webber for harpring and chandler.

im not sure how much i like that...

 

[Bricklayer]

Wait a second, you're jumping on this bandwagon too??? The Kings aren't getting back a big man in this trade, so who is going to backup at the 4? Do you really want to depend on Skinner and Skinner only? Isn't the power forward slot a more pressing concern when you already have Wells presumably backing up Peja, and Martin and Garcia able to fill in as well?

Wells is our starting OG.

Skinner is as good a rebounder as Kenny, bigger, provides more defense, and could effectively back up both power spots (which is generally the ideal up front). There are not sufficient minutes for KT AND Skinner, and in the proposed deal for Harpring we have everything that Kenny provides covered and more before we even get to the contracts. We would need to sign another big -- Darius would be logical if still not a perfect fit (still need a big shotblocking center type) -- but the general rotation would be very balanced. In Kings terms Skinner=Pollard, Harpring=Hedo, Hart=BJax.

 

[Bricklayer]

interesting thought....

we'd essentially be trading webber for harpring and chandler.

im not sure how much i like that...

You aren't???

If THAT had been the deal for Webber in the first place, no huge complaints.

 

[nbrans]

Wells is our starting OG.

Skinner is as good a rebounder as Kenny, bigger, provides more defense, and could effectively back up both power spots (which is generally the ideal up front). There are not sufficient minutes for KT AND Skinner, and in the proposed deal for Harpring we have everything that Kenny provides covered and more before we even get to the contracts. We would need to sign another big -- Darius would be logical if still not a perfect fit (still need a big shotblocking center type) -- but the general rotation would be very balanced. In Kings terms Skinner=Pollard, Harpring=Hedo, Hart=BJax.

By backup I meant fill in at SF when Peja is on the bench. Peja is going to play at least 38 minutes a game as he did even when Hedo was here, and Wells is probably going to be in the game at SF when Peja's on the bench to make sure there is always a dependable scorer on the floor. There aren't going to be very minutes at that position.

In theory I'm fine with Skinner as a backup PF, but I'm not comfortable with the injuries that he's had at the end of last season and in the offseason. Then it falls to Songaila, and I just didn't think he was particularly effective last season. Definitely not as effective as Kenny Thomas, who was pulling down 10+ rebounds off the bench.

The Kings already have their Hedo, and he's Kevin Martin. I'd be much more comfortable with having plenty of depth across the frontline, and I just don't think it makes sense to get rid of Kenny Thomas for a backup at a position where the Kings are already strong.

 

[Bricklayer]

By backup I meant fill in at SF when Peja is on the bench. Peja is going to play at least 38 minutes a game as he did even when Hedo was here, and Wells is probably going to be in the game at SF when Peja's on the bench to make sure there is always a dependable scorer on the floor. There aren't going to be very minutes at that position.

In theory I'm fine with Skinner as a backup PF, but I'm not not comfortable with the injuries that he's had at the end of last season and in the offseason. Then it falls to Songaila, and I just didn't think he was particularly effective last season. Definitely not as effective as Kenny Thomas, who was pulling down 10+ rebounds off the bench.

The Kings already have their Hedo, and he's Kevin Martin. I'd be much more comfortable with having plenty of depth across the frontline, and I just don't think it makes sense to get rid of Kenny Thomas for a backup at a position where the Kings are already strong.

Backup at 2 positions, one of which there are 2 kids at, and the other at which the backups appear to be a series of undersized tweener power frowards. If you're trying to win a title you take a proven guy like Harpring everday over that stuff.

Because Bonzi/Peja figure to get so many minutes, we will probably be ok with the muddled pile of roleless backups we have right now, but with a move for Harpring we abruptly have one of the strongest 2/3 rotations in the league.

 

[Padrino]

i dunno if this has been posted yet, but with all the talk of tyson chandler, i thought i'd throw it out there. from realgm.com's "10 most suprising moves of the 2005 offseason."


2) The Baby Bulls draw little interest and remain unsigned

Considering both were top-5 selections in the 2001 draft who have showed gradual improvement in the NBA, one would think that Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler would have a considerable amount of money at them from an array of NBA teams. Contrarily, the Bulls have sat back and watched their value decrease from the lack of offers they have received. As free agency starts to wind down, these players’ agents must be sweating profusely and losing sleep on a nightly basis as these two big men remain unsigned.

obviously, this doesnt mean a whole lot, but i agree with a lot of the comments about how perfect chandler is for the kings, regardless of his "unproven" status. i think it would be in the kings greatest interests to at least attempt to pursue chandler, possibly in a sign and trade situation for peja, etc, as some have mentioned. chandler could very well be a defensive monster in the near future...and "defensive monster" is exactly what the kings need.

http://www.realgm.com/src_feature/196/20050816/the_most_surprising_moves_of_the_2005_offseason/

 

[CruzDude]

Hey brick. We need to apply to the Guiness Book of World Records! No sports bulletin board site has ever gotten 1706 threads on the same subject!! Tho' those last two words are challenged from time to time.

OK #1707. With Chi getting down to details with Chandlers people it looks like that situation in getting to the near term, 7-10 days maybe. Wonder how interested Chi would really be in Pedja for Chandler? and is it enough for us? Big step down in scoring and Peja's rebounding picked up last year out of necessity. Youth and potential for an all-star veteran. Almost sounds like a balance sentence. But not quite...... something is missing.

 

[Padrino]

Hey brick. We need to apply to the Guiness Book of World Records! No sports bulletin board site has ever gotten 1706 threads on the same subject!! Tho' those last two words are challenged from time to time.

OK #1707. With Chi getting down to details with Chandlers people it looks like that situation in getting to the near term, 7-10 days maybe. Wonder how interested Chi would really be in Pedja for Chandler? and is it enough for us? Big step down in scoring and Peja's rebounding picked up last year out of necessity. Youth and potential for an all-star veteran. Almost sounds like a balance sentence. But not quite...... something is missing.

its tough to say how well this would work out for either team, or if either team would bite on the deal in the first place. though i'm inclined to think that both would be willing. the kings may have to throw in some sweetener, but that'd be fine with me. this trade scenario is a risk for the kings, because we'd be getting a young defensive big man with a lot of potential, but youth and hefty contracts often equals complacence. we need a defensive machine, and chandler could very well become one, as long as he hasnt picked up any lazy habits from teammate eddy curry.

as for the bulls, they'd be getting a proven outside shooter with "potential" to expand his game. we all know peja's game well enough to say that we dont think it will evolve much more, but maybe chicago thinks they could find uses for him outside of his comfort zone. i think its a viable trade simply because chicago could use outside shooting, and peja is as proven as any at that, and he is an all star. despite many of our reservations about his heart and motivations, he's still got trade value. i really like this trade, and i would love it if the kings pursued it. in the end, i think it works out for both teams. is it enough? well....thats something for GP to figure out. he has to take the first step, though, and let go of his perennial shooting machine. GP [hopefully] recognizes that the kings need rebounding and defense, and that neither have been yet addressed fully this offsseason. chandler + kings = step in the right direction, if nothing else.

 

[VF21]

Hey brick. We need to apply to the Guiness Book of World Records! No sports bulletin board site has ever gotten 1706 threads on the same subject!! Tho' those last two words are challenged from time to time.

Small nitpicky clarification:

The 1706 refers to the number of posts (comments) WITHIN a particular thread. Before the crash, we had several threads that had exceeded that many comments.