SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Rowdyone said:
I think the Kings would probably just let Cat walk if Nene wasn't involved in the deal. That or explore a sign and trade with another team. I would still take Lenard and Najera.
OFFICIAL trade thread. Post trade proposals HERE! (merged)
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I think the Kings would probably just let Cat walk if Nene wasn't involved in the deal. That or explore a sign and trade with another team. I would still take Lenard and Najera.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
SDKing said:
I think the whole thing about Nene is that he is still very young and has "potential" to become much more. So far I have seen flashes of him becoming more but yes, if he continues at his current state then he is just "potential" but not much more.
Nene does have some pretty glaring weaknesses, and unfortunately they could possibly multiply our pre-existing disorder. But under great teachers like Pete Carril and Rick Adelman he could realize his potential.
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allrightythen
Starter
SacTownKid said:
The problem I have with Lenard is that he's a veteran who can shoot so he is Rick Adelman's dream and could take minutes away from the youngins (Martin or Garcia) who could actually be more helpful in other aspects of the game (defense/rebounding/energy).
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
allrightythen said:
Hey Lenard is at least an expiring deal I think. Could come in handy. But I agree I wouldn't want him to take minutes away from Francisco and especially Kevin, who hopefully will have the opprotunity for a breakout season.
You could also look at Najera posing a problem on the team b/c he is a little too similar to Big Nasty. They are both undersized PF's playing SF. At least they are quality players that could make any future moves at little easier.
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allrightythen
Starter
SacTownKid said:
Either way we both know that the point of the deal would be to get Nene. I really wouldn't be interested in either Najera or Lenard, but if they are just trade fodder then I guess whatever it takes to make it work.
AleksandarN
Starter
C Diddy said:
I would do that trade in a secound
ParniValjak
All-Star
Where do I sign??????C Diddy said:
SDKing said:
Well it's trading up for size and it fills our biggest need better than Thomas does. Also Nene was backing up Kenyon Martin and Marcus Camby last year so his numbers were down. A young, athletic big guy with NBA experience is not easy to obtain. If we could get him for Mobley who we're going to lose anyway, wouldn't you do that trade in a second?
Entity
Hall of Famer
our best bet to get rid of KT's contract is pairing him with bobby jackson and/or pairing with sign and trade of Cuttino. If we are able to do that we could get somebody solid but, i have a feeling we would have to take on an unwanted contract from the agreeing teams or teams. But if we can get a sold PF and get rid of KT contract so be it.
With that in mind i think Chicago might need a backup PG. Maybe Bobby Jackson and Kenny Thomas for a signed and traded Tyson Chandler? Chandler could get the raise he wants to make the contracts meet. with Bobby gone next year and KT not meeting our standards what the harm
With that in mind i think Chicago might need a backup PG. Maybe Bobby Jackson and Kenny Thomas for a signed and traded Tyson Chandler? Chandler could get the raise he wants to make the contracts meet. with Bobby gone next year and KT not meeting our standards what the harm
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
SDKing said:
Uh...you are nuts.
Najera is a throw in, Nene is the target. And we have very few choices. We are in very serious danger of losing Cutino (and thus effectively Doug)) for absolutely nothing in return. If we can get abck a young big man with a post game and potential, that is easily the best we can hope for.
And KT has been a double double guy ONCE. ONCE in 6 years. He may in fact have the potential to be one in any given year, but so do a lot of guys who don't ever reach those numbers because, like KT, they're not good enough to earn the minutes to do that. Having a mediocre bird in the hand is no great acheivement. We'll be damn lucky if we can get ANYBODY to take KT off of our hands, that's how valuable he is. He is a player with some small value, but throw in the contract and he's almost a negative that we probably cannot give away without including him in a package along with better players and taking back a questionable contract or two. Teams who aren't terribly serious about their frontline could have a use for him, but not with a contract guaranteeing him big ,money until next decade.
P.S. Chicago has been sending out "don't even bother" signals about Chandler (as they should). So I have real doubts that any reasonable package could pry him out of there at this point.
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Entity
Hall of Famer
re-signing Eddie would be the key. but what makes me think bobby might be in trade talks is this is his last year and he isn't getting any younger plus the fact we drafted a guy that can handle the ball so he could be the 3 pg in a pinch. Bobbys contract is steal a bargain so paring it with Kenny's just may even out. After all its not like kenny T is Johnathan Bender or anything he stays healthy and averages a double double. So don't everybody just automatically think he is crap. We just don't need him because our Center has defensive problems as well. Kenny would fit nicely with a dominant center such as Shaq or Eddie Curry even.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Dear Bricklayer. You keep ranting about Kenny Thomas as if its the worst contract in the league. Basically if it started now it would be a very little over the MLE its just for five years. Actually its not that big of a contract Dollar wise its just lengthy and the guy is playing and contributing. look at some of the other contracts other teams have that the ppl arent even playing much if at all.
Malik Rose 19 mil 3 years
Raef Lafrentz 32 mil 4 years
Vin Baker 10 mil 2 years ( this guy isn't even with the team)
Jamal Mashburn 20 mil 2 years ( hasn't played in almost 2 years so last years 9 mil was for nothing)
Johnathan Bender 14 mil 2 years
Tariz abdul wahad 14 mil 2 years
These are just the ones that aren't playing at all that i can think of. Don't let me get started on the ones that don't contribute as much as Kenny Thomas. I did't bother putting up Alan Houstons that is just insane or Brian Grants. I mean probably ove 200 mil being paid out to players that will never see playing time next year. Yet KT will play.
These contracts all would well exceed KT's contract if they went for 5 years. I just wonder if KT was a free agent would anybody sign him to the MLE for 5 years. because basically that is what you are getting him at right now.
Malik Rose 19 mil 3 years
Raef Lafrentz 32 mil 4 years
Vin Baker 10 mil 2 years ( this guy isn't even with the team)
Jamal Mashburn 20 mil 2 years ( hasn't played in almost 2 years so last years 9 mil was for nothing)
Johnathan Bender 14 mil 2 years
Tariz abdul wahad 14 mil 2 years
These are just the ones that aren't playing at all that i can think of. Don't let me get started on the ones that don't contribute as much as Kenny Thomas. I did't bother putting up Alan Houstons that is just insane or Brian Grants. I mean probably ove 200 mil being paid out to players that will never see playing time next year. Yet KT will play.
These contracts all would well exceed KT's contract if they went for 5 years. I just wonder if KT was a free agent would anybody sign him to the MLE for 5 years. because basically that is what you are getting him at right now.
Entity-
Let's show some stats on Kenny Thomas (just the essentials):
99-00....8.3 ppg, 6.1 rpg
00-01....7.1 ppg, 5.6 rpg
01-02.... 14.1 ppg, 7.2 rpg
02-03.... 10.1 ppg, 8.0 rpg (combined)
03-04.... 13.6 ppg, 10.1 rpg
04-05.... 12.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg
As Bricklayer has pointed out, that shows only ONE season where he averaged double-double. His career average is 10.9 ppg, 7.4 rpg. So if we're going to continue to talk stats and production about him, let's at least be accurate.
And it's not about other contracts that are worse. It's about his contract with the Kings and how it hampers us, especially if you're not convinced he's the PF for this team for the years to come...
Just my three cents.
Let's show some stats on Kenny Thomas (just the essentials):
99-00....8.3 ppg, 6.1 rpg
00-01....7.1 ppg, 5.6 rpg
01-02.... 14.1 ppg, 7.2 rpg
02-03.... 10.1 ppg, 8.0 rpg (combined)
03-04.... 13.6 ppg, 10.1 rpg
04-05.... 12.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg
As Bricklayer has pointed out, that shows only ONE season where he averaged double-double. His career average is 10.9 ppg, 7.4 rpg. So if we're going to continue to talk stats and production about him, let's at least be accurate.
And it's not about other contracts that are worse. It's about his contract with the Kings and how it hampers us, especially if you're not convinced he's the PF for this team for the years to come...
Just my three cents.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
10.9pts 7.4rebs actually -- you were reading his playoff line.
Point being he's a good enough rebounder he COULD get a double double if you played him long enough, but nobody has ever wanted to do that. He is a borderline starter, sometimes bench guy. No scrub. But nobody you just throw out there and let him just kick *** and take names.
For comparison Nene sits at 10.7pts 6.2rebs. Difference being he's 22 and big, while KT is 28 and not. Lot of room to grow for Nene, already has a post game, has the height and wingspan to be a solid shotblocker. KTs already done just about everything he can given the deck he was dealt at birth.
Point being he's a good enough rebounder he COULD get a double double if you played him long enough, but nobody has ever wanted to do that. He is a borderline starter, sometimes bench guy. No scrub. But nobody you just throw out there and let him just kick *** and take names.
For comparison Nene sits at 10.7pts 6.2rebs. Difference being he's 22 and big, while KT is 28 and not. Lot of room to grow for Nene, already has a post game, has the height and wingspan to be a solid shotblocker. KTs already done just about everything he can given the deck he was dealt at birth.
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Entity
Hall of Famer
I fully realize that. your telling me nothing when you say he don't fit our needs at PF. I fully understand that as it has been beaten to death. But to say nobody would want him is ludacris. For instance say we had a player on our team that never played just plaing didn't work out but, we signed him early in his career long term and were stuck with him for 4 years and we had a guy that was decent and at a postion we were deep at. And we were offered somebody like Kenny Thomas and another player with the same skill level why would we not make that trade. we get rid of that unwanted contract and get 2 players that actually contributed and has talent.
I am not saying we get Lebron and Shaq for KT i am saying we pair Kt with Bobby and get a PF we want and a player that team doesn't desire. sure we get that undesired contract but we fill our PF spot. Kenny Thomas is not a lame duck like the players i listed and many players i didn't list he is useable and has skill. his final year of his contract is 8.5 mil with the player market today that is not to bad and by then it may be the MLE.
I am not saying we get Lebron and Shaq for KT i am saying we pair Kt with Bobby and get a PF we want and a player that team doesn't desire. sure we get that undesired contract but we fill our PF spot. Kenny Thomas is not a lame duck like the players i listed and many players i didn't list he is useable and has skill. his final year of his contract is 8.5 mil with the player market today that is not to bad and by then it may be the MLE.
Found this on realgm.com:
I've been watching all the pre-draft shows and everything that they have been saying about andrew boguts game, reminds me of exactly what Nenê does. Stuff like not a great shot blocker, physical low post player, good passer out of the post, and he will probably only average 18 and 9 which is what Nenê could easily do.
I've been watching all the pre-draft shows and everything that they have been saying about andrew boguts game, reminds me of exactly what Nenê does. Stuff like not a great shot blocker, physical low post player, good passer out of the post, and he will probably only average 18 and 9 which is what Nenê could easily do.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Since we want to focus on KT's scoring and rebouding all of a sudden lets focus on him as a king with actual team play and not a dead offense like the ones he played on before. Also lets compare those to the ppl Brick listed that we could use at the PF spot. Now you will surely come back with Yeah Yeah but but defense. But you 2 seemed to want to focus on the double double line that has been mentioned to rain down on KT.
it will be Name Points Rebounds and Assist
Kenny Thomas 14.5 8.7 2.9 (as a King)
Stromile Swift 9 5 0.6
Kwame Brown 7 4.9 0.9
Sam Dalembert 8.2 7.5 0.5
Dan Gadzuric 7.3 8.3 0.3
NeNe 9.6 6.2 1.9
Udonis Haslem 10.9 7.7 1
Chris Bosh 14.2 8.2 1.5
Tyson Chandler 8 9.3 0.8
it will be Name Points Rebounds and Assist
Kenny Thomas 14.5 8.7 2.9 (as a King)
Stromile Swift 9 5 0.6
Kwame Brown 7 4.9 0.9
Sam Dalembert 8.2 7.5 0.5
Dan Gadzuric 7.3 8.3 0.3
NeNe 9.6 6.2 1.9
Udonis Haslem 10.9 7.7 1
Chris Bosh 14.2 8.2 1.5
Tyson Chandler 8 9.3 0.8
Even if Nene is merely KT with more size (which I don't agree with but whatever) how can you not like the Cuttino for Nene and Najera trade? That's a steal. We get two good players, one of which is a young big man, for nothing. Who cares if he's better than KT or not? He's cheaper and taller for one, and Cuttino is gone anyway. If indeed Denver does want to do a S&T for him, we'd make out like bandits. Yeah that makes Denver tougher, but he's going to another team anyway and at least this way we get something in return.
And if Petrie wants to shop KT, he'll find some takers. Like Entity said, it won't be Shaq and Lebron, but that doesn't mean we can't get someone who will help us. His contract isn't that ridiculous nor is he injury prone.
And if Petrie wants to shop KT, he'll find some takers. Like Entity said, it won't be Shaq and Lebron, but that doesn't mean we can't get someone who will help us. His contract isn't that ridiculous nor is he injury prone.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Thank you for seeing my point. I would love to get NeNe and najera for KT and cuttino but the only problem with that is it would leave Denver with only Camby Martin and Kenny as their 4-5 guys. I wish Denver had a bad contract at PG or SF or something. Of course they would be browsing FA for a Backup 4-5 which wouldn't be as hard as a starter. Maybe we could throw in Ostertag as a bonus for a 2nd round draft pick in the year 3000.
Entity - Stats can be manipulated or selected to show just about anything. We disagree about Kenny Thomas, his value to the Kings, and his value overall. No problem. It is totally and completely separate from any stats about any other players. It's about Kenny Thomas.
The Maloofs have made it clear they think the core players are Brad, Mike and Peja. They didn't say "and Kenny." I suspect that speaks volumes. You don't think they're trying to move KT? If Petrie can't get a deal done, I will suspect it's because KT isn't the bargain at his present salary you seem to think he is.
And no, it's not about defense. It's about a player who will better fit our needs than KT. There are at least three players on that list that I think would be a vast upgrade, especially in the long run.
Just as you want to focus on KT as a King with actual team play, any of those players could and probably would - if history serves - improve their game on the Kings with actual team play.
We'll agree to disagree about KT. You're not going to change my mind, nor I yours.
The Maloofs have made it clear they think the core players are Brad, Mike and Peja. They didn't say "and Kenny." I suspect that speaks volumes. You don't think they're trying to move KT? If Petrie can't get a deal done, I will suspect it's because KT isn't the bargain at his present salary you seem to think he is.
And no, it's not about defense. It's about a player who will better fit our needs than KT. There are at least three players on that list that I think would be a vast upgrade, especially in the long run.
Just as you want to focus on KT as a King with actual team play, any of those players could and probably would - if history serves - improve their game on the Kings with actual team play.
We'll agree to disagree about KT. You're not going to change my mind, nor I yours.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Entity said:
Now you're just being silly. As an aside, I don;t really think the best KT argument vis a vis the options is to argue that he had his numbers inflated by coming into our system. Same thing would apply when the others would arrive, no?
KT (us)___6'7" 28yrs 31.7min 14.5pts 8.7reb 0.4blk
Swift_____6'9" 25yrs 21.3min 10.1pts 4.6reb 1.5blk
Brown____6'11" 23yrs 21.6pts 7.0pts 4.9reb 0.4blk
Dalembert_6'11" 24yrs 24.8min 8.2pts 7.5reb 1.7blk
Gadzuric__6'11" 27yrs 22.0pts 7.3pts 8.3reb 1.3blk
Nene_____6'11" 22yrs 23.9min 9.6pts 5.9reb 0.9blk
Bosh_____6'10" 21ys 37.2min 16.8pts 8.9reb 1.4blk
Chandler___7'1"_22yrs 27.4min 8.0pts 9.7reb 1.8blk
Haslem -- uh, nobody serious has talked about Haslem as anything but a hardworking scrub thriving in Shaq's shadow.
But here, let's make this simple. No more complex than this -- go get on the phone and offer all of those various teams a straight one for one trade of KT for any one of those guys. With the very questionable possible exception of Kwame, the gigling on the other end of the phone should be amusing. They're younger, bigger, have far more upside, far more defensive presence.
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