Official: Build New Arena Thread

[rhuber]

Well, I understand the whole 'voice of reason' thing and all, but I'm already pretty much getting ready to deal with this city without the Kings. Fine with me, whatever. Why was Joe Serna the only person in this city with a position of prominance that actually had the balls to get pissed and DO SOMETHING about things to actually get them done! Without him, the Kings would have left back in 97' when Old Man Thomas was about to sellout to Nashville. How soon people forget about how Sacramento was. Joe Serna meant so much to this city, I swear. Now....everything is just going to blow away...we're going to become the Bratislava of the West. But hey, it makes people happy, I guess. So...we shouldnt get angry, right? C'mon...the only way things ever get done in THIS city is with vigilance, it seems! Just remember...please.

There's nothing wrong with a little anger, but VF has got the right attitude concerning this particular effort. To gain any credibility as an organized effort, you have to show a willingness to work with all people/ideas - not against them. The theme should be one of unity... which is something everyone can appreciate and comfortably take part in.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

There's nothing wrong with a little anger, but VF has got the right attitude concerning this particular effort. To gain any credibility as an organized effort, you have to show a willingness to work with all people/ideas - not against them. The theme should be one of unity... which is something everyone can appreciate and comfortably take part in.

Then we already have lost...this attitude accomplishes nothing in this city, anyways.

 

[VF21]

Well, I understand the whole 'voice of reason' thing and all, but I'm already pretty much getting ready to deal with this city without the Kings. Fine with me, whatever. Why was Joe Serna the only person in this city with a position of prominance that actually had the balls to get pissed and DO SOMETHING about things to actually get them done! Without him, the Kings would have left back in 97' when Old Man Thomas was about to sellout to Nashville. How soon people forget about how Sacramento was. Joe Serna meant so much to this city, I swear. Now....everything is just going to blow away...we're going to become the Bratislava of the West. But hey, it makes people happy, I guess. So...we shouldnt get angry, right? C'mon...the only way things ever get done in THIS city is with vigilance, it seems! Just remember...please.

You are, of course, free to deal with the city or whomever else you choose in whatever manner you see fit.

"The only way things ever get done in THIS city is with vigilance"?

I'm sorry but I certainly don't follow your train of thought. If you're talking about vigilantes, that's the LAST thing we want. We do NOT want to work outside the law. Vigilance is the state of being aware of one's surroundings and cognizant of any and all dangers.

I do understand your passion but it's possible to be passionate about a cause while still maintaining a modicum of control over your anger.

You're pretty much saying you don't think our effort stands a chance and yet you know absolutely nothing about it. All I'm saying is that before you assume we'll fail, wait and see what we might have in mind.

We all want the same thing. You can write your passionate letters, although angry letters get very little attention. I'm just telling it like it is...

A rational, logical approach with honest, sincere people will get further. And that's what we're hoping to be able to provide.

It's still in the works, so please bear with us.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I might as well start getting ready for the biggest sporting event in this city...The Pig Bowl. Wow, did you hear...Mayor Anne Rudin is planning 'Sacramento's March on Baseball'!! Weeeee!! We're going to be big time for SURE after we do that!*L* Everyone make sure to watch the pride of the Sacramento sports world, Creighton Sanders on the channel 3 news tonight! But everyone get ready for the Jazz Jubilee! We are on the map!

C'mon...this is about more than just the Kings...cant you see?? It's a mentality. We are a city that has 407,000 downtown residents and 2,000,000 in the metro area...and the people that love everything there is about growing up as a city and providing visability arent effective enough to make a difference. Its always been that way, and its never going to change, unfortunately.

 

[VF21]

Of course I can see that it's about more than just the Kings. Did you read my quotes in the Voisin article? It's pretty much EXACTLY what I said...

It's this kind of argument that just isn't productive. We want the same thing. We want a state-of-the-art arena for Sacramento that will include provision for the Sacramento Kings. All I'm trying to say is that we're going to try and do what we can to achieve that end WITHOUT resorting to anger and yelling because it always seems to backfire.

We're really on the same side, Circa. Just give us a chance to get things going before you decide we're going to fail, okay?

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Of course I can see that it's about more than just the Kings. Did you read my quotes in the Voisin article? It's pretty much EXACTLY what I said...

It's this kind of argument that just isn't productive. We want the same thing. We want a state-of-the-art arena for Sacramento that will include provision for the Sacramento Kings. All I'm trying to say is that we're going to try and do what we can to achieve that end WITHOUT resorting to anger and yelling because it always seems to backfire.

We're really on the same side, Circa. Just give us a chance to get things going before you decide we're going to fail, okay?

I'm with you, believe me...I just know how the city and its officials work...I work for them, I see it first hand every day.

 

[jeffjcalweb]

sacratomato leaders don't have the spine and leadership skills to get a deal for a new arena done. i know this is a kings fan site, so of course most of the talk about an arena center's on the kings. once the kings leave, sacramento will take such a monumental step backwards in the quality of life it offers its citizens. with the other exciting (to me) downtown developments underway (new condo towers, apts, etc) it is a shame that the ability to work together w/all parties and get a deal done seems beyond the grasp of those we rely on to make it happen.

anyone who says this is about just the kings, or something as ignorant as "let the maloof's build it" represents the backa$$ thinking that has existed in this city for too long.

 

[kennadog]

Well, I'm excited to see what you come up with VF21. While I'm frustrated over the issue, I agree that, as a group, we don't want to be angry, insulting or too strident. People will just be turned off and will never listen then. Its going to take an attitude of trying to find common ground and cooperation.

I mentioned an article earlier in the thread about an article on intangible benefits. Trying to find it, I have to admit there are way more anti-arena; anti-stadium; and anti-ballpark articles out there. (At least anti any public funding for them.) At least one article was honest enough to say that if a city does say no, they WILL lose their team, UNLESS every city agreed to not offer any public subsidy to sports teams. This will never happen.

http://www.phil.frb.org/files/br/brq204jc.pdf

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

sacratomato leaders don't have the spine and leadership skills to get a deal for a new arena done. i know this is a kings fan site, so of course most of the talk about an arena center's on the kings. once the kings leave, sacramento will take such a monumental step backwards in the quality of life it offers its citizens. with the other exciting (to me) downtown developments underway (new condo towers, apts, etc) it is a shame that the ability to work together w/all parties and get a deal done seems beyond the grasp of those we rely on to make it happen.

anyone who says this is about just the kings, or something as ignorant as "let the maloof's build it" represents the backa$$ thinking that has existed in this city for too long.

AMEN!! FINALLY, someone else sees the reality that exists in this city! This is about WAYYYY more than just the Kings or an arena. Our mayor is letting city council roll back alot of successes that were created for this city(and once again, I'm not even talking about the Kings here) a few years back before she came into office, by default I'll have you. How soon before Steve Cohn gets elected??*L*

 

[VF21]

It's not that some of us don't see the reality that exists, Circa, which is what I've been trying to explain. There are ways around the city council AND there are pressures that can be brought to bear, if people are willing to do them.

We aren't going to turn this into a discussion of politics and what Heather Fargo - or anyone else, for that matter - has or hasn't done for the city. It's about getting the momentum going in the right direction to get a new arena built AND preventing the Kings from even thinking about leaving.

I understand your frustration but this isn't going to be about the politics of what has happened in the past... So please, no rhetoric about various candidates, etc. To be successful, it will take people from both sides of the fence, so to speak.

Thanks for understanding.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I love your diligence VF, and will always respect you for that, as we are alot alike in that way, BUT...I still think this will come to a stand still before it makes any more forward progress, and time is of the essence, and the more time that we spend as vocal Kings fans bringing up pros and cons of this and that, the more everyone involved in this keep sitting around not doing anything. I tell you what, to put everything into prospective; if we got 1,000,000 signatures, got 1,000,000 loyal Kings fans in a 'Save the Kings' march, and took all this to the doorstep of everyone involved in this 'project'...we still would get the canned response: 'We're working to get this resolved in the best manor for all parties involved'. Thats the mentalities that we're dealing with here. In the end, heartbreak would loom, unfortunately. I work for the city, I know how slow things move internally. This thing is a 5 year long chess game that is about to be checkmate for another city and the Maloofs, and the city of Sacramento is about to lose it's King on the NBA chess board.

 

[Bricklayer]

I love your diligence VF, and will always respect you for that, as we are alot alike in that way, BUT...I still think this will come to a stand still before it makes any more forward progress, and time is of the essence, and the more time that we spend as vocal Kings fans bringing up pros and cons of this and that, the more everyone involved in this keep sitting around not doing anything. I tell you what, to put everything into prospective; if we got 1,000,000 signatures, got 1,000,000 loyal Kings fans in a 'Save the Kings' march, and took all this to the doorstep of everyone involved in this 'project'...we still would get the canned response: 'We're working to get this resolved in the best manor for all parties involved'. Thats the mentalities that we're dealing with here. In the end, heartbreak would loom, unfortunately. I work for the city, I know how slow things move internally. This thing is a 5 year long chess game that is about to be checkmate for another city and the Maloofs, and the city of Sacramento is about to lose it's King on the NBA chess board.

As a purposely ominous aside, when are the next elections for the city council? Actually, for all of the various councils around the area. Nobody votes in those things anyway. You get a dedicated organization, you can do some damage.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

As a purposely ominous aside, when are the next elections for the city council? Actually, for all of the various councils around the area. Nobody votes in those things anyway. You get a dedicated organization, you can do some damage.

Can we get Pres. Bush involved in this thing??*L*

 

[VF21]

I love your diligence VF, and will always respect you for that, as we are alot alike in that way, BUT...I still think this will come to a stand still before it makes any more forward progress, and time is of the essence, and the more time that we spend as vocal Kings fans bringing up pros and cons of this and that, the more everyone involved in this keep sitting around not doing anything. I tell you what, to put everything into prospective; if we got 1,000,000 signatures, got 1,000,000 loyal Kings fans in a 'Save the Kings' march, and took all this to the doorstep of everyone involved in this 'project'...we still would get the canned response: 'We're working to get this resolved in the best manor for all parties involved'. Thats the mentalities that we're dealing with here. In the end, heartbreak would loom, unfortunately. I work for the city, I know how slow things move internally. This thing is a 5 year long chess game that is about to be checkmate for another city and the Maloofs, and the city of Sacramento is about to lose it's King on the NBA chess board.

So you're going to throw in the towel before anything is even started?

Dude, I understand... You don't think it stands a chance. Cool. Then just sit back and watch and you can say "I told you so."

 

[Bricklayer]

Can we get Pres. Bush involved in this thing??*L*

I'm dead serious about asking about those dates.

You may be surprised to see what comes rumbling down the pipeline. Your bosses too if they are actually as complacent as you suggest.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I'm dead serious about asking about those dates.

You may be surprised to see what comes rumbling down the pipeline. Your bosses too if they are actually as complacent as you suggest.

Lemme look into this, I'll get back to you shortly

 

[VF21]

Lots of stuff here, Brick:

http://www.cityofsacramento.org/council/

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Beat me to it VF Was just about to post that link, then got caught up in nostalgia, I guess, looking over old initiatives.*L* Most of the members on council were just re-elected back in 2004.

 

[Bricklayer]

And this implies that half of the council will be up in 2006 (staggered 4 year terms with elections in even numbered years). What's the mayor's status?

http://www.cityofsacramento.org/about_the_city.htm

 

[Bricklayer]

As an additional aside, any recall provision at the city level?

I like big sticks.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

And this implies that half of the council will be up in 2006 (staggered 4 year terms with elections in even numbered years). What's the mayor's status?

http://www.cityofsacramento.org/about_the_city.htm

The Mayor is up in 2008, she was one of the ones re-elected in 2004.

 

[Bricklayer]

I am linking up old articles, but a summary would help. Of the Council Members, which ones were the biggest problem, and which the biggest friends to the arena movement?

Fong was an ally, correct?

And Cohn was a pretty blatant enemy?

Mayor seems to have given up after her downtown proposal fell apart -- seem to remember a few years back when she was first elected she was no particular friend of the Kings. Stupid.

What about the rest? Who are the problems that need to be dealt with?

 

[Bricklayer]

As an additional aside, any recall provision at the city level?

I like big sticks.

Hello:

Sacramento Municipal Code
§ 163 Recall.

The holder of any elective office may be recalled, in the manner provided by state law applicable to cities, by the electors after such person has held office six months.

 

[jeffjcalweb]

And this implies that half of the council will be up in 2006 (staggered 4 year terms with elections in even numbered years). What's the mayor's status?

http://www.cityofsacramento.org/about_the_city.htm

the intent is right brick, unfortunately the reality is different. since most of the population and fan base is sacramento county, and not city, a city council recall or election w/new candidates does little to change the picture. the issue is, right/wrong or other its just fact, that the city council, made up of a bunch of smalltime no vision lack of leadership wanna be big city players, is in charge. i've heard a bit of rumour about sacramento county becoming involved to try and get something done, but who knows if that will happen.

as long as it is fargo, and her backwoods cowbell small city thinking council, well if you're holding your breath on a new arena you better stock up on oxygen bottles...

 

[Bricklayer]

Hmm...

Well this is interesting, if we knew who to target:

Most recent election results for City Council Members:

2004
Dist 2: Sheedy -- 57.3% 3,010 votes
Dist 4: Fong -- 77.6% 10,806 votes
Dist 6: McCarty -- 62.0% 6,218 votes
Dist 8: Pannell -- 100% 4,935 votes

2002
Dist 1: Tretheway -- 66.3% 4280 votes
Dist 3: Cohn -- 71.7% 7806 votes
Dist 5: Hammond -- 60.8% 3511 votes
Dist 7: Waters -- 57.9% 5424 votes


The 2002 group will be up again this spring. Look at those vote totals. 3500-7800 votes. That's it. That is the epitome of vulnerable if there is an organized and motivated effort. You need to find 4000 Kings fans per district and you can mount a serious threat. Keep it in mind. I hope they do.

City council members are only as safe as apathy allows them to be. Nobody votes for them, or against them. The latter can change if people have a reason. Anybody on here want to join the city council?

 

[jeffjcalweb]

Hmm...

Well this is interesting, if we knew who to target:

Most recent election results for City Council Members:

2004
Dist 2: Sheedy -- 57.3% 3,010 votes
Dist 4: Fong -- 77.6% 10,806 votes
Dist 6: McCarty -- 62.0% 6,218 votes
Dist 8: Pannell -- 100% 4,935 votes

2002
Dist 1: Tretheway -- 66.3% 4280 votes
Dist 3: Cohn -- 71.7% 7806 votes
Dist 5: Hammond -- 60.8% 3511 votes
Dist 7: Waters -- 57.9% 5424 votes


The 2002 group will be up again this spring. Look at those vote totals. 3500-7800 votes. That's it. That is the epitome of vulnerable if there is an organized and motivated effort. You need to find 4000 Kings fans per district and you can mount a serious threat. Keep it in mind. I hope they do.

City council members are only as safe as apathy allows them to be. Nobody votes for them, or against them. The latter can change if people have a reason. Anybody on here want to join the city council?

that's the problem brick - you have to live in sacramento city limits to vote in the elections. the population base of sacto city vs sacto county is unequal. i believe sac city population is around 450K whereas the rest of the 1+ mil are sac county (ie Roseville, Rocklin, El Dorado Hills). we can't participate, yet the city council controls the kings fate as long as any deal involving an arena is within city limits.

 

[VF21]

Maybe the thought the deal could get done OUTSIDE city limits might get their attention...

There are alternatives, including nearby counties - remember Detroit plays 40 miles away in Auburn Hills.

 

[jeffjcalweb]

absolutely. about a year ago there was talk of roseville being a potential site. i'm of course a pessmist by nature, so i think we're already too late.

there are too many people who have the media's attention, or worse ARE the media (RE Asswitch) who have made this a poor little sactown vs big city billionaire owners. this is soooooooo NOT A KINGS ISSUE! so damn frustrating. the kings can, at best use the arena 25-30% out of the year. the rest of the time it is having a facility to have all the other events that people love to go to.

once the kings leave (if no new arena) are you (not YOU VF) that stupid to think Arco will continue to function as a venue for these events??? sorry folks, pay attention - ARCO IS NOT A VIABLE FACILITY ANYMORE! no new arena = no kings = bye bye all other major entertainment. and don't even bother posting something as stupid as "what about the sleep center amphitheatre" or river cats arena. those are nice little facilities but its hard to have something like an ice skating or WNBA team play there. or whatever else besides the NBA.

 

[BMiller52]

Maybe the thought the deal could get done OUTSIDE city limits might get their attention...

There are alternatives, including nearby counties - remember Detroit plays 40 miles away in Auburn Hills.

Wow, good thinking. Hope someone from the kings org is reading this!

 

[Padrino]

those are nice little facilities but its hard to have something like an ice skating or WNBA team play there. or whatever else besides the NBA.

i hadnt thought about this..where would the monarchs play?