of course with all the trades that went down today 12/18 kingz dont take any action

[bajaden]

When you're a bad team in a small market that no one wants to come to, perhaps it is. I'd like to see you offer some specifics as to what types of players you'd hold out for. I see you shooting down lots of ideas (though it's not just you, to be fair) but I never see you offer any specific ideas about what The Kings should spend their money on.

Hmmmm! I thought you started out arguing the other side of the arguement. Anyway, its hard to propose who you might sign in the offseason until you know for sure whose available, and what the new rules are. Its hard to say who you might trade for, until you know whose being offered and what they want. I mean I could make up a ton of trades that I would like, but it wouldn't be realisitic with no info to back them up. I'd sill love to get Gerald Wallace for a bag of chips. I'd love to have Nelson, but I doult he's available.

Petrie struck gold when we had the last lockout. Lets hope he has the magic touch again.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Hmmmm! I thought you started out arguing the other side of the arguement.

Huh? How exactly?

 

[bajaden]

Stats say otherwise. Three point shooters of Miller and Redick’s caliber certainly don’t grow on trees and neither do point guards like Felton. I’d ask you this, if Point Guards like Felton are so ubiquitous and easy to come by, why don’t the Kings have one?



Well, as you should know, franchise players aren’t exactly lined up to sign on with The Kings. You have to play the hand you’re dealt, or fold. A lot of you guys want to have your cake and eat it too. You don’t want to spend anything unless it’s on a franchise player, but you must know that the odds of a franchise player coming here via free agency are slim and none.

Like who? Name me the point guards and shooters of that caliber that are available in 2011 because I just looked at the list, and I’m not seeing them. Other than Parker, who ain’t coming here, the best PG available next year is...Mo Williams who I'm not even sure would be an upgrade over Beno.

I would have loved to get Miller. And we don't know that Petrie didn't try to aquire Miller. Thats part of the problem with these knid of disscussions. We're arguing in the abstract. As for Felton, I don't think anyone thought he would be as good as he's been. So it ends up being one of those 20/20 things. Kudo's to the Knicks. Also, everyone should remember that everything we do in the offseason doesn't necessarily have to be through the freeagent market. The Kings are in a great position to take back more than they send out in a trade. With the CBA there could be a lot of teams trying to desperately dump salary. All I know is that when the future is unknown, I rather be where the Kings are financially, than teams like the Pistons. I still think that if a no brainer deal comes along, Petrie will jump on it. But until then, he'll be content to sit and see what happens.

 

[pshn80]

To the OP....????

We're a young team, we're not supposed to be making these kinds of trades. Yes, we suck right now but patience is key. Unless we wanna go the Celtics route and trade all our young players for veterans to win now, then it's important to hold on and see what we have first, or at least not have an itchy trigger-finger when it comes to deals like these.

I think your post is a ray of light, the simple truth. I don't expect a trade this season unless its a no-brainer. While many are stewing over no-trade-now-for-the-Kings I'm going to the game this afternoon and enjoy watching our guys and Martin. Should be fun, win or lose.

 

[bajaden]

Which just goes to show how pathetic the rest of the team is. With two guys drawing double teams, that leaves LOTS of guys who should be open who SHOULD be hitting open shots. But they either can't get open because they don't seem to know where they're supposed to be, don't get the ball when they are open, or miss the shot if they do get it. They need proven, veteran shooters on the floor to knock down those open shots. That's the problem with this team. Other teams know if they just contain Cousins and Evans, that no one else (other than maybe Beno) can hit an open shot with any regularity.

No argument with your conclusions. Question is how do we remedy the situation. A problem that is being argued in circles. There's nothing new here. This is ground we've been over a thousand times going back two or three years. There are those of us that believe patience is necessary and that the team is on the right path. Something you seemed to agree with at the beginning of this thread. And there are those that think something should be done right now. or at least sooner than the next offseason. Apparently something you also agree with. Someshat confusing, but hey, you can blow in the wind if you want. I guess it makes for a nice dicussion for those that are new to the fourm. But its an exercise in futility. You can only solve problems if you have all the information. And we don't! We don't know who Petrie has talked to. What deals he's propossed, or turned down. So were all sitting here,being either supportive,or critical, with half the information missing. It might be fun, but it doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[bajaden]

Huh? How exactly?

Perhaps I misread your original intent. But with this post you seemed to me to be on my side of the argument.

"I've been as harsh a critic as anyone regarding the Kings' lack of aggressiveness in trades and free agency. Having said that, I really don't think Carter, Lewis, or Arenas is what this team needs. Not at their price, they all have HUGE contracts that their production just doesn't justify. If they're going to pick up a 20 million a year guy, it needs to be someone like Carmello, Paul, Williams, etc. Someone who's going to be a franchise player for years to come. Lewis and Carter are over 30 and declining every year and Arenas is playing on bad knees and will never be the player he was 3 or 4 years ago again.

What I’d like to see the Kings do, and that would help them get better is try and get Jameer Nelson. They need a backup center for Howard now so Nelson for Dalembert works for both teams".

As I said, to me, you seemed to agreeing that the Kings didn't need to get involved in these kind of moves, which is what the thread was about. Hey, if I misread you, I apologze. But frankly I thought you made sense. I even agreed with you on Nelson. From this post you suddenly went to the other side of the fence to the extreme of actually being about the only one defending that position. No offense intented, but at times you seem to like to argue just for the sake of arguing, And at other times you really make a lot of sense. Perhaps my perception is the problem.. Too many cervesas perhaps...

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

There are those of us that believe patience is necessary and that the team is on the right path. Something you seemed to agree with at the beginning of this thread. And there are those that think something should be done right now.

I agree that Carter, Lewis, and Arenas, with their 20 million dollar a year contracts aren't the answer for this team given the age of those players and the fact that none of them even put up superstar numbers to justify their huge contacts. That isn't really a sign of patience on my part, though, I just wouldn't want to see them break the bank on an overrated star. If they're going to do that, it better be someone who lives up to the hype. What I want to see them do, is aggressively try to get someone like Gerald Wallace who I hear Charlotte is shopping. I want to see a headline that says....Kings in talks with Charlotte for Wallace. That would make me (and so many other fans) so happy because it would be a sign that they're trying to make some moves, make something happen that could actually benefit the team rather than just treading water.

 

[rainmaker]

I agree that Carter, Lewis, and Arenas, with their 20 million dollar a year contracts aren't the answer for this team given the age of those players and the fact that none of them even put up superstar numbers to justify their huge contacts. That isn't really a sign of patience on my part, though, I just wouldn't want to see them break the bank on an overrated star. If they're going to do that, it better be someone who lives up to the hype. What I want to see them do, is aggressively try to get someone like Gerald Wallace who I hear Charlotte is shopping. I want to see a headline that says....Kings in talks with Charlotte for Wallace. That would make me (and so many other fans) so happy because it would be a sign that they're trying to make some moves, make something happen that could actually benefit the team.

You do realize who our gm is, right? One of the few who never let's anything leak, keeps everything in house, and completes trades no one saw coming. It has happened time and time again. I think you're putting too much stock in rumors, and you're assuming that since you're not hearing rumors involving the kings, that petrie isn't working the phones.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

You do realize who our gm is, right? One of the few who never let's anything leak, keeps everything in house, and completes trades no one saw coming. It has happened time and time again. I think you're putting too much stock in rumors, and you're assuming that since you're not hearing rumors involving the kings, that petrie isn't working the phones.

Okay, then let me change that to read, I want see a headline that reads, Kings acquire Wallace for Greene, Landry, and top 5 protected pick to Charlotte. That's what i want to see rather than another, Kings Acquire Jermaine Taylor type of snoozer. Darn it, I wanna see something happen that I can get excited about!

 

[Asaf]

Okay, then let me change that to read, I want see a headline that reads, Kings acquire Wallace for Greene, Landry, and top 5 protected pick to Charlotte. That's what i want to see rather than another, Kings Acquire Jermaine Taylor type of snoozer. Darn it, I wanna see something happen that I can get excited about!

I wouldn't mind seeing that headline, but the one I'd really like to see is "Kings acquire a new coach"...

 

[Bricklayer]

Okay, then let me change that to read, I want see a headline that reads, Kings acquire Wallace for Greene, Landry, and top 5 protected pick to Charlotte. That's what i want to see rather than another, Kings Acquire Jermaine Taylor type of snoozer. Darn it, I wanna see something happen that I can get excited about!

Casspi, Landry, and Top 10 protected and maybe we could be talking about a 28 year old SF with a big deal.

With all the top PFs already shifting around last year, the major do it all third option swingmen types like Iggy and Wallace might be the sexiest options for us, shooting be damned.

 

[bajaden]

I agree that Carter, Lewis, and Arenas, with their 20 million dollar a year contracts aren't the answer for this team given the age of those players and the fact that none of them even put up superstar numbers to justify their huge contacts. That isn't really a sign of patience on my part, though, I just wouldn't want to see them break the bank on an overrated star. If they're going to do that, it better be someone who lives up to the hype. What I want to see them do, is aggressively try to get someone like Gerald Wallace who I hear Charlotte is shopping. I want to see a headline that says....Kings in talks with Charlotte for Wallace. That would make me (and so many other fans) so happy because it would be a sign that they're trying to make some moves, make something happen that could actually benefit the team rather than just treading water.

Look, I agree with you, that seeing that the Kings are out there digging through the rubble trying to do something would probably bring some cheer to a lot of the fans. At least then you would know that management isn't just sitting around the boardroom drinking coffee and sharing old stories about the good old days. But thats not Petrie's MO. Most times his trades are a surprise out of left field, and for someone you didn't even know was available. Hey, I wish it wasn't that way. I'm a news junkie, and I read almost all the newspapers of the other teams everyday trying to dig for information we won't get out of our organization. As I said before. We don't have all the information, so if were critical of the Kings for doing nothing, we don't really know that they were doing nothing. We only know that nothing happened.

So were left with guessing. Maybe we should run a contest. Everyone predict what move they think the Kings will made before the trade deadline, and have a prize for the winner. I do think the Kings will make some sort of deal before the trade deadline. I seriously doubt they intend to resign both Landry and Dalembert at seasons end. And with Whiteside waiting in the wings for next year, and along with Jackson, Landry is the most expendable. And of course one could use the Whiteside scenario on Dalembert as well with Thompson being able to play center. Point is, that if their going to let either, or both walk, they would like to get something in return for them.

As it stands now, it looks like were shaping up for another high draft pick. Which of course is more youth, and some would say the last thing this team needs right now is more youth and inexperience. I disagree and for reasons I won't go into right now. But in simple terms, there will be teams looking for young upcoming players while at the same time trying to shed salary to a team with room. If there is a lockout, lets hope its a short one.

 

[Kingster]

And who does Orlando have that we would want? If Nelson is as good as everyon seems to think, they aren't going to part with him so someone could play ten minutes a game to back up Dwight.

Nelson is great with Dwight Howard behind him. All of his defensive flaws are minimized. Put him on the Kings and let's see how great he is. To me, he'll just be another one-dimensional player that we can add to the multitude of one-dimensional players we already have on this team.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

To me, he'll just be another one-dimensional player that we can add to the multitude of one-dimensional players we already have on this team.

Yeah, I could see that being at least a possibility. I don't think that would happen with Gerald Wallace though, I think he'd really help the team for sure.

 

[Kingster]

Look, I agree with you, that seeing that the Kings are out there digging through the rubble trying to do something would probably bring some cheer to a lot of the fans. At least then you would know that management isn't just sitting around the boardroom drinking coffee and sharing old stories about the good old days. But thats not Petrie's MO. Most times his trades are a surprise out of left field, and for someone you didn't even know was available. Hey, I wish it wasn't that way. I'm a news junkie, and I read almost all the newspapers of the other teams everyday trying to dig for information we won't get out of our organization. As I said before. We don't have all the information, so if were critical of the Kings for doing nothing, we don't really know that they were doing nothing. We only know that nothing happened.

So were left with guessing. Maybe we should run a contest. Everyone predict what move they think the Kings will made before the trade deadline, and have a prize for the winner. I do think the Kings will make some sort of deal before the trade deadline. I seriously doubt they intend to resign both Landry and Dalembert at seasons end. And with Whiteside waiting in the wings for next year, and along with Jackson, Landry is the most expendable. And of course one could use the Whiteside scenario on Dalembert as well with Thompson being able to play center. Point is, that if their going to let either, or both walk, they would like to get something in return for them.

As it stands now, it looks like were shaping up for another high draft pick. Which of course is more youth, and some would say the last thing this team needs right now is more youth and inexperience. I disagree and for reasons I won't go into right now. But in simple terms, there will be teams looking for young upcoming players while at the same time trying to shed salary to a team with room. If there is a lockout, lets hope its a short one.

Petrie is an opportunist (in a good way). He's going to sit back and wait to get the calls. Really, the question then, isn't what Petrie is going to initiate. It's what another team is going to initiate. So, to really identify what Petrie is going to do you have to literally go through every single NBA team and ask yourself, who wants Landry, Dally, Garcia, or whomever, for either their push to the playoffs or for cap reasons next year. That's quite an exercise...

 

[nickmcclure]

I'm frustrated the Kings' organization has been stagnant on the trade front too, but what makes anyone think Arenas or Carter would even play here? Through I think Pietrus would have been a nice pick up for us.

 

[Tetsujin]

I'm frustrated the Kings' organization has been stagnant on the trade front too, but what makes anyone think Arenas or Carter would even play here? Through I think Pietrus would have been a nice pick up for us.

Why would we want them?

 

[hrdboild]

Every time someone makes a post here about how the Kings have the lowest payroll in the league, refuse to spend money on players, operate with a small market losers mentality, or are basically a second rate organization that is out of touch with it's fans I wonder to myself if these people have either not been Kings fans for the past 10 years or they just have a really short memory. Because none of those claims would have come up even 5 years ago when the team had one of the largest payrolls in the league, an 8 year playoff streak, and 20 years of selling out 94% of their home games.

In fact, for the past 5 years most of the front office complaints on this message board have been about how our bloated payroll was stunting the future growth of the team and Petrie was not helping the situation by giving 5 year Mid-Level deals every off-season to whoever he could get (Salmons, Abdur-Rahim, Mikki Moore). Last year was the first year in a long time we actually had cap room and we spent some of it to get even more cap room this off-season. If you look at a team's payroll and you see two top 5 picks, a handful of young first round picks on their rookie deals and a couple small or expiring contracts that is not a team that's falling apart because it won't spend money -- that's a team that's rebuilding in the only way that you can re-build in the salary capped NBA.

We did not want or need any part of Arenas, Richardson, Lewis, Turkoglu, or Carter. They're all of them some combination of aging, injured, or overpaid. The deals made sense for those teams. They're swapping their problems for someone else's. When you're losing and you're at the salary cap that's about all you can do to shake up your team (see past Kings trades of Webber, Peja, Bibby, Miller, and Christie for more examples).

But we're in a better situation than that. We're losing but we're also young and our talent is getting better not worse. That makes this season rough just like last season was rough and perhaps next season will be as well. There's a reason top 5 picks go to the worst teams. You need top 5 picks to win in the league. If it were easy to get them everyone would be tanking their seasons and building super teams. But lose too much and you risk losing the fans.

I can't speak for anyone else obviously, but I remember when the Kings sucked and there was very little hope of them getting better. I also remember them getting better and starting to make the playoffs with regularity and then reaching their peak with a couple hard-fought playoff series against the Lakers and crashing back down to earth. And having lived through all of those experiences (and it wasn't even that long ago in sports franchise terms) I feel like the team has earned a certain level of patience and endurance from me as a fan. They've shown me that they're willing to do whatever it takes to compete. And I believe they've set their sights higher this time. They're not aiming for building a competitive playoff team, they had that as recently as 5 years ago. They're aiming for the whole enchilada. And they should be. As fans, what more could you want?

 

[nickmcclure]

Why would we want them?

Because aside from Evans they are better than any other player on our team and we could use a solid vet at the 2. Their contracts are pricey but hey why not make use of that sweet cap space we aren't making use of? Like I said though I'm not sure Carter or Arenas would agree to it but at this point their talent alone could propel us to mediocrity...maybe...

 

[Mike0476]

Every time someone makes a post here about how the Kings have the lowest payroll in the league, refuse to spend money on players, operate with a small market losers mentality, or are basically a second rate organization that is out of touch with it's fans I wonder to myself if these people have either not been Kings fans for the past 10 years or they just have a really short memory. Because none of those claims would have come up even 5 years ago when the team had one of the largest payrolls in the league, an 8 year playoff streak, and 20 years of selling out 94% of their home games.

In fact, for the past 5 years most of the front office complaints on this message board have been about how our bloated payroll was stunting the future growth of the team and Petrie was not helping the situation by giving 5 year Mid-Level deals every off-season to whoever he could get (Salmons, Abdur-Rahim, Mikki Moore). Last year was the first year in a long time we actually had cap room and we spent some of it to get even more cap room this off-season. If you look at a team's payroll and you see two top 5 picks, a handful of young first round picks on their rookie deals and a couple small or expiring contracts that is not a team that's falling apart because it won't spend money -- that's a team that's rebuilding in the only way that you can re-build in the salary capped NBA...

Agreed 100%.

It just sucks we have around 9,000-10,000 fans showing up to the games and not selling out or coming close to selling out the building.

It seems like only the die-hard fans are showing up with the bandwagon fans from the glory days are gone, but they will return once a better product is on the floor.

Just checked the official attendance from NBA.com and it said today's game was 13,599.

Sorry, but on TV it did not look like 13,599.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Because aside from Evans they are better than any other player on our team and we could use a solid vet at the 2.

I wouldn't mind if they got Carter because he expires at the end of the season anyways, so not much risk involved. I wouldn't touch Lewis' contract (which goes to 2013) with a 10 foot pole, though. And Arenas' contract isn't much better.

 

[Bricklayer]

Because aside from Evans they are better than any other player on our team and we could use a solid vet at the 2. Their contracts are pricey but hey why not make use of that sweet cap space we aren't making use of? Like I said though I'm not sure Carter or Arenas would agree to it but at this point their talent alone could propel us to mediocrity...maybe...

They are old 2nd tier players with huge contracts -- its laughable anybody would even remotely suggest them. They are the very last things a team in our position needs or even looks for. Cap cloggers, anf frankly even if they work out its just a few pointless wins to deny you draft position.

If you can get a player young enough to become part of the core here going forward, then you can look at it. Old 2nd rate guys in the middle of their monster contracts are completely untouchable for us. You don't even look at them. We either get a major piece for our future, or we hang in there and try to draft a major piece to our future. There is no we blow our capsace to win 5 extra games and cost us the next great player B.S.

 

[nickmcclure]

I wouldn't mind if they got Carter because he expires at the end of the season anyways, so not much risk involved. I wouldn't touch Lewis' contract (which goes to 2013) with a 10 foot pole, though. And Arenas' contract isn't much better.

Yeah I agree. I'd be willing to bet the Suns will put Carter to good use seeing as how they are a fast paced team with a knack for giving second-wind to veteran's careers. In no way would I suggest picking up Lewis but at least Arenas is still playing well. At this point we have 0 proven players. If it was up to me, we'd spend some money and get a quality vet to spread the floor. Tyreke is our only double-team worthy player and he's regressing due to injury.

 

[nickmcclure]

They are old 2nd tier players with huge contracts -- its laughable anybody would even remtoely suggest them. They are the vbery last things a tema in our position needs or even looks for. Cap vloggers, adn frankly even if they work out its just a few pointless wins to deny you draft position.

If you can get a player young enough to become part of the core here going forward, then you can look at it. Old 2nd rate guys in the middle of their monster contracts are completely untouchable for us. You don't even look at them. We either get a major piece for our future, or we hang in teher and try to draft a major piece to our future. There is no we blow our capsace to win 5 extra games and cost us the next great player B.S.

Alright, well if we run this route we're going to continue to lose games season after season. In another thread I brought up the fact that if we don't make some moves this will be the 3rd straight year we tank and try to build through the draft. Aside from the Thunder who else successfully builds a super young team through the draft? Jason Richardson is not a 2nd tier player. We could use his 19 ppg. I imagine Carter would average a lot more points on the Kings since he would have more touches. If you want a team full of cheap unproven youth, then congratulations we already have it.

P.S. We're 5-20, what exactly are we waiting for?

 

[Bricklayer]

Alright, well if we run this route we're going to continue to lose games season after season. In another thread I brought up the fact that if we don't make some moves this will be the 3rd straight year we tank and try to build through the draft. Aside from the Thunder who else successfully builds a super young team through the draft? Jason Richardson is not a 2nd tier player. We could use his 19 ppg. I imagine Carter would average a lot more points on the Kings since he would have more touches. If you want a team full of cheap unproven youth, then congratulations we already have it.

P.S. We're 5-20, what exactly are we waiting for?

We're waiting for the right move. Not random panic moves becuase fans can't hold their water. We have the assets lined up to rebuild the team and acquire the right pieces. Blowing them on the wrong pieces is moronic. There are no playoffs this year. There is no panic. We take our shot, we get the right players at the right cost, or we wait until the summer and do it then.

 

[rainmaker]

Yeah I agree. I'd be willing to bet the Suns will put Carter to good use seeing as how they are a fast paced team with a knack for giving second-wind to veteran's careers. In no way would I suggest picking up Lewis but at least Arenas is still playing well. At this point we have 0 proven players. If it was up to me, we'd spend some money and get a quality vet to spread the floor. Tyreke is our only double-team worthy player and he's regressing due to injury.

Uhh.......have you heard of this guy named Demarcus, plays center for the Kings, and draws doubles.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Alright, well if we run this route we're going to continue to lose games season after season. In another thread I brought up the fact that if we don't make some moves this will be the 3rd straight year we tank and try to build through the draft. Aside from the Thunder who else successfully builds a super young team through the draft? Jason Richardson is not a 2nd tier player. We could use his 19 ppg. I imagine Carter would average a lot more points on the Kings since he would have more touches. If you want a team full of cheap unproven youth, then congratulations we already have it.

P.S. We're 5-20, what exactly are we waiting for?

If it was 2005-2007 Arenas averaging 27 points a game, I'd take him regardless of contract. But 2010 Arenas averaging 17 points a game just isn't worth it. Maybe he gets back to averaging in the mid 20s again but you'd be taking a big gamble on that.

 

[nickmcclure]

We're waiting for the right move. Not random panic moves becuase fans can't hold their water. We have the assets lined up to rebuild the team and acquire the right pieces. Blowing them on the wrong pieces is moronic. There are no playoffs this year. There is no panic. We take our shot, we get the right players at the right cost, or we wait until the summer and do it then.

I agree to an extent, I just think those players (assuming they'd even play here) could help us move forward and at some point you have to say enough is enough. You'd think Arco's poor attendance would be reason alone to make some moves.

 

[Spike]

Three years of trying to build through the draft ain't jack. OKC did it, Portland, injuries aside did it, even Memphis has some promising pieces. What do they all have in common? I'll give you a minute.

We sucked for the greater part of a DECADE before getting Webber. The team has been drafting quite well, and one more top 5 lottery pick will certainly put us in the OKC model.

There's nothing to spend. Aging vets are not the solution here.

 

[nickmcclure]

Yeah I agree. I'd be willing to bet the Suns will put Carter to good use seeing as how they are a fast paced team with a knack for giving second-wind to veteran's careers. In no way would I suggest picking up Lewis but at least Arenas is still playing well. At this point we have 0 proven players. If it was up to me, we'd spend some money and get a quality vet to spread the floor. Tyreke is our only double-team worthy player and he's regressing due to injury.

Uhh.......have you heard of this guy named Demarcus, plays center for the Kings, and draws doubles.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you mean that super pissed off 6'10'' guy? Lol he does get doubled sometimes as he is progressing a lot. Still though we're awful and the losses are piling up. I'm the biggest die-hard fan but we can't be so delusional and rate these guys so highly. Our team is currently a laughing stock.