Not liking this one

[JB_kings]

Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones
At #nbakings practice. Lineups are interesting. One had JT, Robinson and Cuz up front. Smart plans to experiment with matchups in preseason

I don't even want to see Smart wasting one minute of practice time playing stupid lineup games. They should be playing James Johnson at SF most of the time. He's already their best defending SF.

This kind of confusion and messing around with players out of position is counter productive. And it feeds bad ideas into Robinson's head that coach thinks he's a SF. We all saw him in summer league.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't even want to see Smart wasting one minute of practice time playing stupid lineup games. They should be playing James Johnson at SF most of the time. He's already their best defending SF.

This kind of confusion and messing around with players out of position is counter productive. And it feeds bad ideas into Robinson's head that coach thinks he's a SF. We all saw him in summer league.

Well I think that is precisely the issue -- we all did see it in summer league, and in some ways his SF type skills looked better than his big man type skills. I have mixed feelings on that because we need another big, and not a positionless tweener either, but reacting to a mobile atheltic 6'8-6'9" guy who shows good passing and ballhandling skills, who's strength on offense is facing up and driving to the hoop, and who seems to struggle against size inside, by trying him at SF is not totally illogical. I don't want to see him commited to that position, but if that's the direction he develops, ok. Does not bother me nearly as much as the ineviable experiments the other way, JT/Johnson/Reke/Thornton/Brooks etc.

 

[JB_kings]

The problem is that this creates a situation where the best perimeter shooter between Cousins, JT and Robinson is probably Cousins. I really don't want to see any of those scenarios where Cousins hangs out beyond the arc.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Cousins, pulls up from Jimmer range!!! OOOHHHHH BOY!!!

Lol.

 

[rainmaker]

Well, I'd rather have TRob at SF than he or Chuck at center.

But, if we're going to try TRob at SF, where he does have some perimeter skill, and that's based off summer league and the assumption you know the skill set of your damn players, then why haven't we gotten another big and the only movement among our bigs is to let Hassan walk?

So while I think TRob at SF does have some merit and it's better than either he or Chuck at center, it's flat out stupid to have a head coach thinking about playing him there and then not go get more size down low and instead get a midget chucker in Brooks.

We'll see, first pres season game isn't far away. We'll be able to tell immediately what positions Smart is thinking about playing players. I'll give Smart the benefit until I see this during a game and see his rotations. But remember, as much as people here disagreed with me last year and said SMart's weird rotations/lineups were due to our roster and no training camp, he did the same crap in GS. Hopefully he draws on what Pop taught him and not Nelson, but so far with us we've seen a hell of a lot more Nelson in him than Pop.

 

[SacTownKid]

Be interesting to see how that lineup works but if I were coaching against that team, I'd clog the paint quick and watch the Kings struggle to score 10 points in the quarter.

So....big key for summer was to improve shooting, yep, this lineup fixes that alright!

It will at least be fun to watch the train wreck that is Cousins trying to create and Evans and TRob trying to slash to the rim whenever they have the ball.

 

[Agent23]

IT/Brooks/Jimmer/Thornton/Evans is probably a lineup we'll see close out the 4th LOL. We'll call it Smart being Smart

 

[pshn80]

How does James Jones get a lineup for practice before the team gets to Colorado?

I split up the training camp roster into three teams for scrimaging. The C, PF and SF players on each team were as follows: Cousins, Hares and Hone -Team #2, Awere, Robinson, and Johnson - Team #3, N'Diaye, Thompson, and Outlaw. We probably won't hear how the guys are split up for scrimge. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Sorry I LIKE this experimenting. This is PRECISELY what camp is for in the beginning. The only way to properly asses talent, skills and chemistry is to play with line ups. Is T Rob better suited for SF? the only way to know is try it! I HOPE Smart comes out of camp/preseason with at least 4 or 5 line ups he likes or can live with AND more he KNOWS don't work... so we don't have to see him experiment for half the season.

 

[Section 101]

How does James Jones get a lineup for practice before the team gets to Colorado?

I split up the training camp roster into three teams for scrimaging. The C, PF and SF players on each team were as follows: Cousins, Hares and Hone -Team #2, Awere, Robinson, and Johnson - Team #3, N'Diaye, Thompson, and Outlaw. We probably won't hear how the guys are split up for scrimge. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

They practiced today before flying out.

 

[VF21]

Cousins, pulls up from Jimmer range!!! OOOHHHHH BOY!!!

Lol.

Are you trying to give Brickie a seizure????

I still remember worrying about him every time Brad would pull up and shoot from outside. It wasn't pretty.

 

[VF21]

Sorry I LIKE this experimenting. This is PRECISELY what camp is for in the beginning. The only way to properly asses talent, skills and chemistry is to play with line ups. Is T Rob better suited for SF? the only way to know is try it! I HOPE Smart comes out of camp/preseason with at least 4 or 5 line ups he likes or can live with AND more he KNOWS don't work... so we don't have to see him experiment for half the season.

I agree. Smart can get to know a lot more about his players by doing a bit of experimenting in training camp, where it should be done, instead of on the fly like he was forced to do last year.

 

[JB_kings]

How many seasons can they go with SF experimenting? Trying to plug in guards and tweener forwards and hoping they work. I disagree that Robinson should be converted into a SF at this point in his career. He showed in summer league that he struggled with the position. If you struggle against rookies, D-leaguers and deep bench players, then you'll struggle playing against rotation players in the NBA. Robinson needs to get adjusted to the league as a big man doing what he already does well. Then he can start adding to his skill set as he learns to play. To me it's just another throwing of a rookie into spot where it's pretty much assured he is going to struggle.

Practice is for getting down pat what you are trying to accomplish on the court. If all they are trying to do is experiment with rookies playing out of position again, then they can expect to be losing a lot of games again this year. I'm not saying Robinson can never be a SF. What I am saying is that this team needs to put players in spots on the floor where they can succeed first and then grow.

 

[jcwkings]

Robinson would be a nightmare for most 3's with his strength, I have no problem with giving him minutes at the 3 in certain situations, Cousins, JT, T Rob, Thornton, IT/Brooks gives us two shooters to go along with 3 bullies inside

 

[VF21]

How many seasons can they go with SF experimenting? Trying to plug in guards and tweener forwards and hoping they work. I disagree that Robinson should be converted into a SF at this point in his career. He showed in summer league that he struggled with the position. If you struggle against rookies, D-leaguers and deep bench players, then you'll struggle playing against rotation players in the NBA. Robinson needs to get adjusted to the league as a big man doing what he already does well. Then he can start adding to his skill set as he learns to play. To me it's just another throwing of a rookie into spot where it's pretty much assured he is going to struggle.

Practice is for getting down pat what you are trying to accomplish on the court. If all they are trying to do is experiment with rookies playing out of position again, then they can expect to be losing a lot of games again this year. I'm not saying Robinson can never be a SF. What I am saying is that this team needs to put players in spots on the floor where they can succeed first and then grow.

I think you're putting the cart in front of the horse just a bit.

I don't think TR is on his way to becoming a permanent SF, but considering the lack of depth we still have at that position I think it's good for the team to get some time working on a lineup where he can possibly step into the role.

This is training camp, not even pre-season. It's a time for the coach and the players to learn as much as they can about each others strengths and weaknesses. It's also a time to evaluate the tools available and see how they can work.

Let's see what happens before we start to panic.

 

[bajaden]

Personally I don't see anything wrong with this. I said before we even drafted Robinson that he might end up being a SF in the future. Don't know if thats the long range plan, but I see no need to go into hysteria over something that J. Jones happened to see. I mean my god, training camp hasn't even started yet and the world is ending.

 

[Bricklayer]

How many seasons can they go with SF experimenting? Trying to plug in guards and tweener forwards and hoping they work. I disagree that Robinson should be converted into a SF at this point in his career. He showed in summer league that he struggled with the position. If you struggle against rookies, D-leaguers and deep bench players, then you'll struggle playing against rotation players in the NBA. Robinson needs to get adjusted to the league as a big man doing what he already does well. Then he can start adding to his skill set as he learns to play. To me it's just another throwing of a rookie into spot where it's pretty much assured he is going to struggle.

Practice is for getting down pat what you are trying to accomplish on the court. If all they are trying to do is experiment with rookies playing out of position again, then they can expect to be losing a lot of games again this year. I'm not saying Robinson can never be a SF. What I am saying is that this team needs to put players in spots on the floor where they can succeed first and then grow.

I get that, but I guess it depends to some degree how committed you are to the idea of TRob as a PF/the PF of the future. I know that is how he was billed pre-draft and everything, but really the only time I've seen him play ball above the college level -- and it is a big jump, just ask Jimmer -- he looked like a...I don't know what. And since I wasn't really invested in his college career, I don't have this image set in my mind that he is definitely going to be x. I certainly don't want to see him jerked around out of position anymore than I want to see Reke at SF or liked the JT at SF experiment. But what is his natural NBA position? I'm not 100% sure right now, and am willing to let them try to sort that out. Clearly he was supposed by rep to be a smallish PF who made up for it with athleticism, but that's all based on college, and guys shift down positions all the time when they hit the bigger players of the NBA.

It does not have to play out like this at all -- in fact my gut tells me he will make it or not as a PF -- but I'm reminded a little of Corliss Williamson (obviously not athletically). Like TRob Corliss was an undersized power player leading an elite college program to national title contention. Like TRob he ran into a full NBA sized frontline in the championship game and struggled a bit raising some questions. Now with Corliss his path to a long NBA career which included a 6th man of the year award and a championship ring was dropping weight and emerging as a "power" small forward. Not at all saying this will be the same thing. But given TRob's size (somewhere a little smaller than Al Harrington/maybe LeBron with half an inch etc.), mobility, and skillset, along with him looking like he might need a lot of work on his interior post game on both ends of the court, I understand them taking a look now, while the games don't matter.

 

[Kingster]

I'm extremely skeptical of putting Robinson at the 3. I think the summer league proved that he's not suited to the position. Why does Smart have to repeat the experiment? I see a turnover a minute guy if we put him at the 3, and a guy who is going to be trying to do things he's not comfortable doing. Every minute that Robinson plays the 3 is one less minute playing the 4. Not a good thing. I hope the experiment is very short-lived because if it isn't then I think there's a high likelihood he loses confidence and becomes confused about his role.

 

[JB_kings]

Maybe coach was curious and wanted to see that lineup. But the very first practice session is an odd time to do that IMO. Training camp is not free play time. They have some serious work ahead of them on improving the defense. Trying out your rookie PF at SF shouldn't be anywhere near a high priority. Don Nelson used to start off camp talking up defense and then go out at tinker with junk lineups that couldn't defend to save their lives.

 

[Kingster]

I get that, but I guess it depends to some degree how committed you are to the idea of TRob as a PF/the PF of the future. I know that is how he was billed pre-draft and everything, but really the only time I've seen him play ball above the college level -- and it is a big jump, just ask Jimmer -- he looked like a...I don't know what. And since I wasn't really invested in his college career, I don't have this image set in my mind that he is definitely going to be x. I certainly don't want to see him jerked around out of position anymore than I want to see Reke at SF or liked the JT at SF experiment. But what is his natural NBA position? I'm not 100% sure right now, and am willing to let them try to sort that out. Clearly he was supposed by rep to be a smallish PF who made up for it with athleticism, but that's all based on college, and guys shift down positions all the time when they hit the bigger players of the NBA.

It does not have to play out like this at all -- in fact my gut tells me he will make it or not as a PF -- but I'm reminded a little of Corliss Williamson (obviously not athletically). Like TRob Corliss was an undersized power player leading an elite college program to national title contention. Like TRob he ran into a full NBA sized frontline in the championship game and struggled a bit raising some questions. Now with Corliss his path to a long NBA career which included a 6th man of the year award and a championship ring was dropping weight and emerging as a "power" small forward. Not at all saying this will be the same thing. But given TRob's size (somewhere a little smaller than Al Harrington/maybe LeBron with half an inch etc.), mobility, and skillset, along with him looking like he might need a lot of work on his interior post game on both ends of the court, I understand them taking a look now, while the games don't matter.

Robinson bears no resemblance to Corliss Williamson. Not in height, skill, or athleticism.

 

[Bricklayer]

Robinson bears no resemblance to Corliss Williamson. Not in height, skill, or athleticism.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

But he may in situation. Or at least there are enough indicators there to warrant investigation.

 

[Kingster]

I think you're putting the cart in front of the horse just a bit.

I don't think TR is on his way to becoming a permanent SF, but considering the lack of depth we still have at that position I think it's good for the team to get some time working on a lineup where he can possibly step into the role.

This is training camp, not even pre-season. It's a time for the coach and the players to learn as much as they can about each others strengths and weaknesses. It's also a time to evaluate the tools available and see how they can work.

Let's see what happens before we start to panic.

VF, I think we have so much depth at the 3 that the rest of the world's population must have shrunk by a half. Especially, if you put Robinson at the 3. Ok, Honeycutt is gone, so maybe the axis near the Sacto epicenter won't tilt, but with all those other guys you've got plenty to choose from.

 

[CruzDude]

I don't even want to see Smart wasting one minute of practice time playing stupid lineup games. They should be playing James Johnson at SF most of the time. He's already their best defending SF.

This kind of confusion and messing around with players out of position is counter productive. And it feeds bad ideas into Robinson's head that coach thinks he's a SF. We all saw him in summer league.

Hey dude, its only the first day of pre-season practice. Chill out. A coach has to experiment to see what is the on-floor chemistry. All the BIGS need to be somewhat interchangeable to aid in the matchup skill needed against other teams.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I like it. I liked it the moment I watched Robinson play 5 summer league games.

By the way, you don't 'need' 3pt shooting in every lineup scenario. If they want to run this, provided it WORKS, then why would you not be okay with it? Also, Cousins, JT, and Robinson can all shoot. Not from 3pt range, but they are all very effective from mid range. Robinson can also handle the ball better than any other SF on the team aside from Salmons (who is a better SG anyway). What you lose in shooting you potentially make up in size, rebounding, defense, energy, etc. There are a lot 'pros' to this lineup.

And Hayes / Robinson is NEVER really going to work. The Kings are going to have to be creative with their rotation (to make sure JT or Cousins are on the court at all times) or pick someone else up who eventually gets cut from another teams training camp roster. One way to eliminate this problem is by starting Cousins - JT - Trob, take JT out early for a guy like Johnson, then you bring in JT and Hayes for Robinson and Cousins.

Of course, I can't see how it looks. I like it in theory, but until I can actually watch it it's hard to pass judgement. On paper though, I've always thought it could work. If nothing else, it will be something to look out for. And if I'm the other 29 teams .. I'm not looking forward to facing Cousins - JT - Robinson all at the same time, that's for sure.

 

[Hadlowe]

Personally I don't see anything wrong with this. I said before we even drafted Robinson that he might end up being a SF in the future. Don't know if thats the long range plan, but I see no need to go into hysteria over something that J. Jones happened to see. I mean my god, training camp hasn't even started yet and the world is ending.

Its one of those lineups that may work very well against certain opponents. Robinson has the foot speed and size to deal with the bigger Small Forwards out there (e.g. Gerald Wallace, LeBron), especially the ones who can't shoot the long-ball. On offense on the other side, you can have Cousins shoot mid-range while JT and Robinson (both pretty good rebounders) crash inside. I can see it working in limited situations when you're not getting killed from long range.

 

[Kingster]

Thank you Captain Obvious.

But he may in situation. Or at least there are enough indicators there to warrant investigation.

And if I can see the obvious, and you can't, what does that make you? Mr. Clueless?

Love the "in situation" innanity. Please regale us with your "indicators".

 

[funkykingston]

Based on what I saw of Robinson in summer league I think it's much more likely that he develops a reliable long range jumper than an effective low post game.

If you're playing for today you keep him at the 4, letting him earn minutes with his rebounding and hustle and avoid thinning the frontcourt depth or having a lineup nearly devoid of outside shooting.

But if you're playing for what's best for the future of this team, you find out what his best position is and play him there, even if it is SF and means an unbalanced roster and lots of growing pains.

Again, what I saw through the sloppy and often misleading lens of summer league was a guy who did NOT look like an NBA power forward at all. As I said at the time, the flirtation with Ryan Anderson made more sense after seeing Robinson's game. While it still doesn't address the need for an interior defender to pair with Boogie, the two of them could be relatively complimentary forwards as both are tweeners of different types. And honestly, I'd rather have a bruising freight train of a SF than an undersized, scrappy PF.

We'll see.

 

[BLNINJA #81]

And if I can see the obvious, and you can't, what does that make you? Mr. Clueless?

Love the "in situation" innanity. Please regale us with your "indicators".

The point he was trying to make was situational, regardless of whether you can read it or not. I don't necessarily agree with the experimentation either as I feel it's best to start at your natural position and see what happens from there. You'd be a fool however to not see he has a point in this.

 

[JB_kings]

Hey dude, its only the first day of pre-season practice. Chill out. A coach has to experiment to see what is the on-floor chemistry. All the BIGS need to be somewhat interchangeable to aid in the matchup skill needed against other teams.

First off, nobody needs to "chill out". This is a discussion forum for the Kings basketball and opinions and that's what this is about. Discuss the players - not the poster.

But I think it certainly should be a concern if the first practice of camp features their rookie PF inserted into the SF spot. A spot he hasn't showed the ability to play in organized competitive basketball. And this coming off a year where the team's defense was beyond bad. How is it a priority in the first practice to see the rookie play SF with the starting front court? That's not emphasizing defense, it's offensive tinkering. It raises a concern to me that Smart is just giving lip service to all his defense talk.

As Funkykingston put it:

But if you're playing for what's best for the future of this team, you find out what his best position is and play him there, even if it is SF and means an unbalanced roster and lots of growing pains.

I am certainly in the mindset of playing to win games now is more important needing to give PT to Robinson. They already have a super young core of big minute rotation players. If Robinson can prove he can play some at the SF later, Great! But let him prove that once he plays some games in the NBA first.

 

[Spike]

VF, I think we have so much depth at the 3 that the rest of the world's population must have shrunk by a half. Especially, if you put Robinson at the 3. Ok, Honeycutt is gone, so maybe the axis near the Sacto epicenter won't tilt, but with all those other guys you've got plenty to choose from.

Numbers don't necessarily imply depth.
Anyway, I really don't care at this point. He'll either show that he learned from summer league and is better prepared to take on the SF role, or he'll prove that he needs to be the starting PF, or it'll be somewhere in between. Once the games start, however, I would like for him to have a defined role and have the coaches stick to it, instead of jerking him around from one position to the next.