Noc rips the Kings... (NEW! Poll added!!)

[BMiller52]

Whining? Are you kidding? He's not whining, he's telling it like it is. He's walked the walk; I think he's earned the right to call out those who don't. We've wanted players who aren't afraid to talk about the elephant in the room. He didn't say anything we haven't said on this very board too many times to count. He's challenging the players to step up and do better...and if their feelings are hurt, too bad. They've hurt our feelings numerous times by phoning in it, looking like they'd rather be in a dentist's chair having root canals, or just going through the motions. Noc doesn't do that. He puts it out there on the court, doing his job. He's done that from the minute he came to town. It should be a wakeup call for some of the other guys who have looked as though they couldn't care less about doing their best.

He wasn't vindictive and I doubt if he had a hidden agenda. He just said what he felt - and what a lot of us have felt.

You don't buy the "he just wants to win" excuse? Well, sorry, but I do. And I'd sure rather hear guys saying that like Noc and Bobby, who will follow their words up with actions on the court. I'm tired of having players dish out platitudes like business cards at a networking seminar and then coming out the next game and putting forth less effort than the half-time entertainers.

Case in point? Kevin Martin. I've been a Martin fan from day one but it's time for him to quit talking about playing defense or working harder to create his shot or anything else he says in a sound byte when he follows it up by coming out and doing virtually nothing he's talked about.

Actions speak louder than words. And Nocioni's actions have pretty much convinced me he's talking the talk only because he's willing to walk the walk.

Thank you, Noc!

Agree 100%.

 

[sactownfan]

One of the frustrating things about dealing with Europeans is their shaky grasp of basic geography.

Brick i've been active on this board for 2 years but read it going further back, and... This was top notch stuff! nice work with the map! you got me to actually bust out in laughter... this "euro this euro that" was just asking for a post like yours... way to come thru!

but since i kinda started the whole argument I'd like to say I meant Euro League... yes Euro League... as its come to everyones attention even if i didn't mean Euro League Argentina is clearly apart of Europe! dang section 101 got served again! LOL! for real tho hes not european hes euro leaguean

 

[kingsnation]

Just imagine what this forum would look like if Ron Artest had said this stuff.

No kidding!

 

[Aenadin]

at least we know for a fact that he has the cojones to tell it straight... WE SUCK we need to get better...and start playing like a team

im not seeing what he said as a negative... its more like a positive..

 

[bubulina]

hedo is european!

Really, that means if you flip it then Peja, Tony Parker, Dirk, Songalia, Darko, Hedo and Beno aren't Euro players. If you ask Noc if he's a Euro player what would he say?

I think Brick hit it on the head. Foreign players say this crap all the time and don't expect it to get back to their teams because of the language barrier. Also, how much is lost in translation? Not just from language to languge, but in the foreign interpretations of what he's trying to say.

If the bee, team or espn doesn't make any mention of it then the majority of Kings fans will never know what he said anyways.

Well he is cause Turkey is about to become member of the EU in few decades or so....

To go back to the topic, I think it serves no purpose to bash your team publicly. If what was reported is true, it was not nice.

Finally, I became a fan of the Kings when hedo started to play. Turkish national PG back then was a very close friend of mine and I had once even the opportunity to drive him (orhun ENE is his name and he was a great player) Okur and Hedo in my small VW. They could barely fit in it... Since then I always stayed with my team and one day I hope to be able to see them play whether they suck or not. For that I will probably have to visit the USA but hey, why not!

p.s. as i seldom write I would like to take this opportunity to thank administrators of this board for their time and effort to give me something to look for everyday. Brick's grades are always the best substitute for someone like me who cannot watch the team on a regular basis. I also missed VF's PBPs.

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

at least we know for a fact that he has the cojones to tell it straight... WE SUCK we need to get better...and start playing like a team

im not seeing what he said as a negative... its more like a positive..

Yes. He has the balls to say it to some third party. Awesome. Great job Nocioni, way to take a stand. I can trash my boss and co-workers in front of my friends too.

Look, you don't bring this up in the media. Not ever. Nothing good comes from it. It's passive-aggressive workplace drama, nothing more and it never should be comended. You keep it in the organization where it belongs and confront the parties you need to. If for some reason he tried getting through to the coach, the players individually, and Petrie, and hell even the Maloofs and they all failed, then I guess he should be free to go blather whatever he wants to whoever he wants. But given that he's been here all of a month I doubt that's what happened.

And that's not to mention that there are much more constructive ways of doing it through the media as well. Or the fact that he sometimes turns into the same black hole on offense he is criticizing other people of being.

 

[Kingster]

Whining?
Case in point? Kevin Martin. I've been a Martin fan from day one but it's time for him to quit talking about playing defense or working harder to create his shot or anything else he says in a sound byte when he follows it up by coming out and doing virtually nothing he's talked about.

Well, we have to look at the bright side with Martin. He may mouth the words about defense, but he doesn't sound sincere when he's saying it, so you have to give him some credit, right?

 

[kennadog]

To go back to the topic, I think it serves no purpose to bash your team publicly.

I'm with you 100% on this. (Glad to see you post Bubulina. Welcome. ) I think bashing your teammates through the media is the anti-cohesiveness/chemistry building act. Say what you have to say to your teammates/coaches faces. Those are the only people that can change anything.

As for saying it to the fans? As everyone's pointed out, we all pretty much agree he's telling it like it is, so he didn't reveal anything new to us at all. Or did this information come as a big shock to somebody? We can read the critiques of numerous reporting sources and so can every player on the Kings. It's not like what is wrong with the Kings is news to anyone. So what was the point?

Nothing's going to change until players and coaches get honest with each other and change their attitudes about how to play (the hard part). To play great, you have to trust your teammates. Talking to the press like this is likely to create more distrust/enmity.

 

[rainmaker]

Yesterday I didn't mind what Noc said, and after reading the FULL translation I feel even more so. He did not call out anyone by name. He did not publicly demand a trade. He just stated the obvious. This team is encredibly selfish, and the worst offenders are Beno, Garcia, Mccants, and Solomon. I am guessing that next year at this time 3 of those players will be gone. He is fustrated, and anyone who competes as hard as he does would be.

I found his comment about playing for a disciplined coach interesting. He hasn't had the opportunity to play for a Popovich or Adelman like his countryman Ginobli or Scola. He has come into a situation where we have an interim head coach most likely on his way out, and multiple players playing for contracts next year. And the guys who have been here a while look like they have given up on the season. I see it, you see it, he see's it, and I'm sure most of the guys in the lockerroom feel the same way. After we hopefully bring n a new pg, get some talent in the draft, and add some new pieces while not bringing back the selfish pieces which are FA's, we will be fine. This roster will have 4-5 new players heading into training camp, as well as an experienced head coach(hopefully). I'm sure he will be fine going into next season.

I also like his comment about fans wanting to see players dive on the floor for loose balls, and they haven't seen it this year. He's not calling anyone out for not playing hard, but basically telling the team as a collective unit to hustle more, and play with more energy. We have seen this problem ALL YEAR. He, Bobby, and JT have the right to say that, because they are the only players who would back it up with non--stop hustle every night. There are a handfull of guys on this team who play ahrd every night, and play the game the right way. Noc has done that his entire career. Maybe this will force his teamates to look in the mirror and realize they should be playing harder.

I would rather have a guy on the team who give all out energy and hustle every night and demands the same from his teamates, over someone who is passive and looks like they could care less.

He probably should have kept this in house. But this is pro sports, and if anyone on the team was offended... TOO BAD. The 1st and 2nd yr players get a pass, but he expects more from the veterans, as do the fans and coaching staff.

 

[RyanWiggum]

In the Bee today:

Nocioni lets off steam

By Sam Amick
samick@sacbee.com
Published: Thursday, Mar. 26, 2009 - 12:00 am | Page 5C
On the night the worst Kings team in history was at its very worst, it had been a month and a day since Andres Nocioni was pulled into the wreckage.

A 119-97 loss on March 17 in Atlanta was a collage of basketball ugliness, a mixture of selfish play, lackluster effort and fleeting confidence early that led to late chaos. And as the small forward who was traded from Chicago on Feb. 18 put on his clothes inside the visitors' locker room at Philips Arena, he turned toward teammate Beno Udrih with a look of helplessness on his face and asked the most simple of questions.

"So is this how it was before I got here?"

Nocioni's concerns about the Kings didn't stop there. And judging from an interview published Tuesday in an Argentine publication, he is as worried about the team's future as he was about its past...

http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/1730022.html

 

[VF21]

p.s. as i seldom write I would like to take this opportunity to thank administrators of this board for their time and effort to give me something to look for everyday. Brick's grades are always the best substitute for someone like me who cannot watch the team on a regular basis. I also missed VF's PBPs.

On behalf of all of us, I thank you for the kind words. I stopped doing the PBPs because there were just so many different words I could use to say essentially the same thing...and none of them were very nice.

At this point, however, there are things to be hopeful about. And there are intangibles you cannot get from box scores, such as player enthusiasm, that I could be talking about...

If I'm home, I'll do the Grizzlies game - provided, of course, they show effort and something for me to type about.

Now, I'd like to offer a word of thanks in return. It's you, bublina, and other Kings fans from around the world that help make our board so interesting and diverse. Thanks for finding us and thanks for taking the time to give us a perspective from a different view. It's truly appreciated.

 

[kennadog]

In the Bee today:
http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/1730022.html

From the same article, Bobby feels how I do:

Kings guard Bobby Jackson said he prefers that players voice their frustrations in-house instead of publicly."Everybody knows our ups and our downs, so why go out and talk about it and say, 'That's how I feel?' "

 

[VF21]

While I definitely agree in principle, I think the circumstances around this are infinitely different than the usual spouting of sour grapes. (And I do not think this was sour grapes; I think this was pretty honest concern about the smelly stuff Nocioni suddenly found himself stepping in and surrounded by...)

Nocioni was obviously shell-shocked when he was first traded to the Kings, and who could blame him? His questions to Beno seem to reflect that confusion and shock about just how bad a team he had landed on.

The reputation of the Kings has, for years, been one of team camaraderie, etc. Nocioni's frustration was expressed to a publication with which he felt comfortable. I'm pretty sure he just had no idea what he had walked into and said so...

Regardless of his gaffe in speaking to Olé, it still boils down to him speaking truthfully about something that really concerned him. That shows he cares.

As far as Bobby saying he prefers players voice their frustration in-house, he has been quoted more than once in the Bee when it was clearly his frustration level had been exceeded to the point where he had to speak or explode...

If Noc had been here for a long time, it would be different. If he spoke out to Sam Amick or even Voisin, that would be different. I think he was being open with a countryman about a situation that clearly had him perplexed beyond all belief. It's the situation we should be blaming much more than the messenger. And if it lights a fire under a couple of our underperforming players, all the better. Let them show the same kind of passion and heart Nocioni has already shown in his short time here and then they can whine about him airing their pathetic dirty laundry.

 

[Kingster]

Noc is a big strong guy. He should just call out the perpetrators (in the locker room), including Martin if need be. What does he have to lose? The weasels on this team know they are weasels. They know they're acting like ****s. They know they aren't bringing it every night. They know they are playing selfishly. So call them on it.

 

[BritishColumbia]

No, he's not a Euro. He's from Argentina (I'd bet some people actually think that alone qualifies for being a Euro). Since "Euro" is short for European, he's still not a Euro. He's been in the NBA four or five years, does that make him American? Will you call Childress a Euro after he's been in Greece a few years? Didn't think so.

Actually, arguing about it is kinda silly. There is no THE right definition. Obviously, Noc is Italian Argentinian and not natural European. As well as there are about 70% of Americans of European descent in the USA and they are not natural Europeans either. However, Argentina is very close culturally to Latin Europe and for non-Latino people Argentina, Spain, Portugal and Italy would be almost identical by look and feel; especially Argentina and Spain. I guarantee you that for Portuguese (e.g.) Argentina is more like home than England or Sweden.

Plus, being Euro (actually sounds not very nice for Europeans) and Euro player are two different things. Noc is not Euro but very Europeanized person, of Italian descent, also holds Italian citizenship like many other Italian Argentinians, speaks Italian, became a pro and adult in Europe and plays FIBA style of basketball. And I wanna underline this - plays FIBA basketball. That's why Noc is considered by many fans and basketball guys as a Euro guy. Euro style is nothing more or less than FIBA style.

 

[Oprostaj]

Noc is a big strong guy. He should just call out the perpetrators (in the locker room), including Martin if need be. What does he have to lose? The weasels on this team know they are weasels. They know they're acting like ****s. They know they aren't bringing it every night. They know they are playing selfishly. So call them on it.

It's difficult to be a leader when you are the brand new guy on a team going nowhere. Players with "me first" attitudes playing for contracts and kids that are just trying to impress are a difficult audience. Nocioni spoke from the heart. I doubt he was trying to throw anybody under the bus. During his Chicago tenure, he was a model teammate. Never publicly criticized teammates, even during tough times, but he always spoke his mind. That's who he is. He's shown more hustle in his short time here than most of our "vets" have their entire tenures with us. Losing is one thing. Losing with no effort being put forth is another.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

I think he should have kept it to himself. We can all agree that the sky is blue. Even his teammates know it.

But making this comment to a Spanish language publication is a bit different from publicly calling out his teammates.

 

[PoundForPound]

To be honest, sometimes I wonder how I am still a fan of this team.
Facts are facts, and the fact of the matter is that over the past handful of years, the Maloofs have had money issues. Undoubtedly, the effects have made their way to the basketball court, which should not, under any circumstances, ever happen. Much less to the degree of how badly it has effected this Kings team, going from a contender in the west to the worst team in the league. It's just not fair to the fans, and the Maloofs should consider selling the team.

So when Nocioni said this, I had no problem with him. In fact, I am happy that he publicly put it out there for everyone. He's a veteran who, at this point in his career, undoubtedly wants to be contending for a championship on a good team. Instead, he was traded to the bottom-feeder of the NBA, playing for nothing more than a freaking first pick. AS IF it's really going to turn everything round? Is it even going to make this team 5 wins better? That's another thing. The first pick. Wow. That's really going to change everything and turn this team into a winner. -.-

 

[John Galt]

We have raised a generation and a half (give or take) of exceedlingly thin skinned people obsessed with political correctness. I has become rude to simply call it like you see it and tell the truth.

We regard it as politically astute and socially mature to avoid saying anything that can be pinned to us later. It is hip to avoid accountability at all costs.

This is true whether it is an arms for cash scandal, inappropriate stains on blue dresses, or being traded mid season from good teams to teams that suck. All the same... "I don't recall". "define hummer". "all I want to do is listen to the coach and help my team win"... blah blah blah blah.

How about a little "We're fed up Geoff, and we don't care who knows it!!!"

I'm fine with what he said, how he said it, and to whom he said it. Very refreshing. Noc might be my favorite King.

 

[hrdboild]

To be honest, sometimes I wonder how I am still a fan of this team.
Facts are facts, and the fact of the matter is that over the past handful of years, the Maloofs have had money issues. Undoubtedly, the effects have made their way to the basketball court, which should not, under any circumstances, ever happen. Much less to the degree of how badly it has effected this Kings team, going from a contender in the west to the worst team in the league. It's just not fair to the fans, and the Maloofs should consider selling the team.

So when Nocioni said this, I had no problem with him. In fact, I am happy that he publicly put it out there for everyone. He's a veteran who, at this point in his career, undoubtedly wants to be contending for a championship on a good team. Instead, he was traded to the bottom-feeder of the NBA, playing for nothing more than a freaking first pick. AS IF it's really going to turn everything round? Is it even going to make this team 5 wins better? That's another thing. The first pick. Wow. That's really going to change everything and turn this team into a winner. -.-

I think the gradual decline of the talent on the team has more to do with sweeping out the last remnants of a failed championship run than the Maloofs supposed money problems. Petrie was handcuffed by the contracts on the team (contracts which were signed or traded for willingly) and the situation wouldn't have been much different if there was more money to spend. It's not like this team has been skating by with a skeletal payroll for years while the owners pinch pennies. Too much money has been tied up in too many declining veteran players along with 2 failed coaching choices and the whole house of cards has come down this season. It happens to a lot of teams on the back end of their glory years. I don't particularly blame the Maloofs for this. It's not their fault Webber's knee blew up and Christie's body broke down and Peja wanted his payday -- all pretty much at once. We can look back where better choices might have been made to prevent the debacle of this season, but not once have I thought that lack of revenue was the main problem.

Actually, I think the money problems of the Maloofs this season are being blown way out of proportion by speculative journalists who really don't know what they're talking about. This team was in last place and needed to cut salary regardless. That's what every team in last place does (or should do) and it would have happened with or without the recession. The Maloofs don't have all their money in real estate or investment banking, so there's no reason to think they've been hit harder than anyone else. If there is a money crunch it has a lot more to do with the bottom line of the basketball enterprise. Ticket sales are at an all-time low for the Sacramento era as the fanbase in general is feeling the effects of the recession and, as is readily apparent to anyone who's been watching, the team has been in decline since Webber's injury. Ticket sales would have gone down with or without the recession (as they tend to do for last place teams) it's just our misfortune that we've been caught on a downswing in the middle of a historic recession.

There are a lot of problems to solve, for sure. Head coach, PG, franchise player, new arena, Martin's dedication to defense, (cough...new uniforms...cough). All you can do is tackle them one at a time. Understandably the players are frustrated. This is why I wasn't in favor of bringing in a guy like Nocioni. Sure you'd like to see his energy rub off on the rest of the team, but is it fair to ask a player to waste his prime playing with a bunch of kids on a last place team? That's not his fault, anyone in that situation would be frustrated. Every player wants to be on a winning team, and the older you get the more pressing the need to feel like you're making progress, not moving backwards. Hopefully that progress comes soon, but if not I think it's fair to look for a trade for Nocioni after next season. Surely by then his hustle will have rubbed off if that was the idea. All we can do as fans is wait and be patient. It will turn around. It just takes time.

 

[bajaden]

To be honest, sometimes I wonder how I am still a fan of this team.
Facts are facts, and the fact of the matter is that over the past handful of years, the Maloofs have had money issues. Undoubtedly, the effects have made their way to the basketball court, which should not, under any circumstances, ever happen. Much less to the degree of how badly it has effected this Kings team, going from a contender in the west to the worst team in the league. It's just not fair to the fans, and the Maloofs should consider selling the team.

I think your mixing apples and oranges here. Where the Kings are today has nothing to do with the Maloof's being penny pinchers. Up until this year, they have been right up there in salary expense. If anything, they needlessly spent money on players that wern't worth the expense. They've been over the cap almost every year and payed a luxury tax in a couple of those years. Their problem of late has not been whether they were willing to spend the money, but what they spent the money on.

The Kings are where they are because the Maloof's or Petrie were not able to see the handwriting on the wall. The team had aged and some of the key players were gone. Some bad decisions were made to try and put bandaids on the problem, and the result is what you see now. If the rebuild had started a couple of years ago, the transition would have been easier and less painful.

Are they tight with their money now? Yes, but take in consideration that almost every owner in the NBA is tightening their purse strings. Take into consideration that the Maloof's reportedly lost over 200 million dollars in the Madoff investment scam. I don't care how you slice it, that a lot of money to lose. The whole economy is down right now. The Kings are a bad team, and attendence is down, and so are revenue's.

There are a lot to things to be critical of with the team, but by and large, spending isn't one of them. They have been the best owners the sacramento Kings have had. In wishing that they sell the team, be careful what you wish for. So far the Maloofs have not been carpetbaggers. The next owner could be!

 

[SacKings384]

Why are people acting like Noc is some savvy vet that has "been there done that"? He has been on Chicago his entire career up until this point, where they have been perennial losers. His numbers have decreased ever since he got his big contract, and he has never lived up to his paycheck. He has never won anything, and he has never even gotten out of the second round. To come in here and trash the organization and the teammates PUBLICLY is a no-no, plain and simple. I'm not sure why everyone is defending him.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Are they tight with their money now? Yes, but take in consideration that almost every owner in the NBA is tightening their purse strings. Take into consideration that the Maloof's reportedly lost over 200 million dollars in the Madoff investment scam. I don't care how you slice it, that a lot of money to lose. The whole economy is down right now. The Kings are a bad team, and attendence is down, and so are revenue's.

It was easy to miss, but the Maloofs specifically denied that they had given any money to Madoff whatsoever, so that looks like nothing but a rumor.

At any rate, the Maloofs have repeatedly said that they run the Kings independent of their other business concerns and personal money. So the team revenue, as you suggest, is certainly the most important factor in our reduced payroll (so reduced that after our first round picks this year we should be above $50M, which will be within sniffing distance of the salary cap).

There are a lot of reasons that we're down right now, as explained earlier in the thread, but not spending money isn't one of them by any means. We've been throwing plenty of money around lately, it just hasn't done us any good. I'm kind of mystified as to how the original commenter could be under the impression that lack of spending is the problem.

 

[RaY Z]

I think you have to have serious issues to point out some technical aspects of this EURO BS.

I don't know about you guys, but I certainly understood sactown fan, when he refered to noc as a "Euro Player".

TOO MANY EGOS!!!

Oh yeah, I'm glad Noc expressed his feelings, which are so true, to the media. It's about time someone did.

 

[fnordius]

He has never won anything

In 2004, the US had gone 109-2 in Olympic basketball. That was the year that Argentina eliminated the US team and went on to win the gold. There was also a South American championship, a FIBA silver medal, and some other things.

I don't think that the success of one's team has any impact on a player's credibility, but, considering that I'm in my 50s and my team has won nothing more than a Pacific Division title in my lifetime, I'm not about to call him a perennial loser. I still disagree with his publicly airing dirty laundry, but he's been a pretty successful basketball player.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't think that the success of one's team has any impact on a player's credibility, but, considering that I'm in my 50s and my team has won nothing more than a Pacific Division title in my lifetime, I'm not about to call him a perennial loser.

Just in case you don't last until your next one:

 

[bajaden]

Just in case you don't last until your next one:

Cold! But funny....

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

We regard it as politically astute and socially mature to avoid saying anything that can be pinned to us later. It is hip to avoid accountability at all costs.

Yes, so instead Nocioni says all this stuff to some foreign publication which no one on the team or in Sacramento would have heard about if HoopsHype didn't catch wind of it. That is VERY accountable stuff right there.

 

[VF21]

??? So it's Nocioni's fault that a magazine interviews him and because it's not an AMERICAN magazine he's hiding something? Balderdash.

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

??? So it's Nocioni's fault that a magazine interviews him and because it's not an AMERICAN magazine he's hiding something? Balderdash.

If he was doing it to send a message as some people here are implying, he picked one of the worst forms of media to do it. No one on the team reads that paper and if it wasn't for HoopsHype catching wind of it, we would have never heard a peep about it. What part of the above shows that Nocioni is trying to take accountability for his actions or to send a message to the team?

Really, I think you completely misunderstood the post. Especially with that AMERICAN bit