Noc rips the Kings... (NEW! Poll added!!)

[VF21]

I think people are really stretching to read WAAAAAAAY too much into this. I don't think he contacted Olé surreptitiously to conduct some kind of clandestine interview with the intent of sending a message.

I think Olé most likely had planned to interview him about his trade and some of this stuff came out.

He was being honest about his first impressions of the team and the situation. I don't think there was any kind of intention on his part to cause dissert or dischord.

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

I think people are really stretching to read WAAAAAAAY too much into this. I don't think he contacted Olé surreptitiously to conduct some kind of clandestine interview with the intent of sending a message.

I think Olé most likely had planned to interview him about his trade and some of this stuff came out.

He was being honest about his first impressions of the team and the situation. I don't think there was any kind of intention on his part to cause dissert or dischord.

I'm not reading anything into it. I am merely saying that he picked an inappropriate place to make those comments and should not be lauded for it, especially when he is not above criticism himself.

It is a stretch to assume that Ole was trying to dig up some dirt or that Nocioni was trying to burn some bridges. On that same note, it is a stretch to say that he's just telling it like it is or trying to air out some message publicly and putting people on notice, or whatever positive spin people are trying to put on it

All we know is he made some inappropriate (however true they may be) comments in an inappropriate place. Stuff like this is best kept within the locker room, otherwise it is usually counter-productive. Especially when one of the key issues is over team chemistry.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't think that the success of one's team has any impact on a player's credibility...

I'm sure that Tracy McGrady and Carmelo Anthony thank you for your support.

 

[rainmaker]

I really don't see what the big problem is with Nocioni's comments. Is everyone afraid he hurt the feelings of a few multi-millionairs that haven't lived up to their contracts this year.

This is profesional sports, and if you can't handle brutal honesty and the truth than you don't belong. He only stated what everyone else can clearly see. The fans know it, the coaches know it, management knows it, and any player that doesn't know it and take accountability is in denial.

He spoke his mind. So what! Anyone that doesn't feel fustrated with the situation on this team doesn't belong here in the long run. Judging by the inconsistent effort on a nightly basis, I would say there are some players that don't care and have given up. For someone like Noc, who leaves everything he has on the court, that must be extremely fustrating. If the veterans would man up, play with some intensity, and pass the damn ball like they should, Noc wouldn't have said anything.

I wouldn't be suprised if tomorrow they come out with more fire than we have seen in a while. At that point, this conversation is over.

 

[RKid]

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/03/25/basquet/01884112.html

Andrés Nocioni es auténtico y frontal. En la cancha y también afuera. Por eso, para muchos argentinos, es tan o más querido que Manu Ginóbili. Cuando debe jugar lesionado, Chapu lo hace. Y cuando tiene que hacer autocrítica, no tiene dramas. Nada de excusas ni palabras que disfracen realidades. "Esta es la peor temporada de mi carrera, no hay dudas. No jugué bien durante todo el año y me hago cargo", sentencia el alero, de entrada, en la charla con Olé.

Andres Nocioni is authentic and very honest. On the court and outside of it. That's why, for many argentinians, he is as loved or more so than Manu Ginobili. When he has to play injured Chapu does it. And when he has to critique himself, he has no drama. No excuses nor words that that disguise the truth.

"This is the worst season of my career, there is no doubt. I didnt play well all year and for that I take charge."

Said the winger, from the start of the talk with Ole

-¿Pero es la peor de tu carrera o en la NBA?

-En mi carrera, sin dudas. Ni en Racing, con 15 años, jugué así (se ríe). Fue una temporada tirada a la basura y encima me cambiaron a Sacramento...

But is it the worst in your career or in the NBA?

"In my career, no question. No even in Racing when I was 15 did I play like this. (he laughs) This has been a season thrown away to the dumpster and to top it off they exchanged me to Sacramento.

I translated the beginning and was thinking of translating the whole thing to clarify some misconceptions but its a) way long and b) not sure if its even needed.

If you would like me tor translate the whole thing Ill be happy to do it, just let me know.

You have to take into account that Nocioni and other players that come from soccer coutries speak in soccer terms. For example when he talks about his future, he sasys nothing about opting out. He just says "If I can get something better, I will make that decision."

As some of you might know in the world of futbol it is not difficult to change teams, you dont need to be traded you just have to get bought. Many soccer players use those very same terms. So i dont know if Nocioni is a) confused or b) just going to push for a trade or c) saying "lets see what happens."

If you think that Nocioni was somehow suckered by the paper into making outrageous declarations well, no. The article ends,

"Y sí, Chapu, si algunos más tuvieran tu corazón y deseo, todo sería distinto."

"Yes, Chapu, if others had your heart and desire, everything would be different."

 

[RKid]

Im sorry if the above has already been posted, delete if necessary.

 

[Oprostaj]

I'm sure that Tracy McGrady and Carmelo Anthony thank you for your support.

Sarcasm is the true ultimate weapon, not the A or H bomb. As true as this is, Tracy put up good numbers in the playoffs, while falling just short. Then again, he was never a superstar in my eyes. Just a really good player. Carmelo will never win anything while with the Nuggets. That team's defense during the game and most importantly in the crunch time is about as good as the Clippers have been in the past decade.

If we're using these players as benchmarks then throw Kobe in there too, since anything less than a championship is deemed failure. Ewing... I don't know. Basketball is the ultimate team sport, and I always felt Tracy got a bad rap. Product of the hype machine and expectations rather than his own abilities. A superstar is supposed to push you over the top, and he never was a player with that ability, even when he was putting up the gaudy numbers. His game was never built for that.

Noc has been a successful basketball player through his career. I'm sure it was a shock to his system to be transferred to a black hole in terms of basketball world.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If we're using these players as benchmarks then throw Kobe in there too, since anything less than a championship is deemed failure.

No, you're wrong. Bryant does not apply to this analogy, according to the criteria, because he has been much more successful, even on his own, relative to McGrady and Anthony.

More to the point, both of those guys have reputations as guys who can't win the big one, while Bryant most emphatically does not.

 

[Rookie]

If it's the truth, it's the truth. Shouldn't matter if you're a bum on the street or the president of the United States.

The poll should of been, did he speak the truth or a bunch of speculations.

But than again, some people can't handle the truth.

 

[kennadog]

Well it's Nocioni's feelings about what is wrong and people's feeling aren't facts or truth, except to the person speaking. Not everyone will agree that everything Noc thinks is wrong with the team is true, but no one needs to be told there are things wrong with the Kings. Their abysmal record this year makes it a fact. So Noc's revelation is like saying the earth is round. Most people don't have to read it in the media to know that. (And the flat earth folks won't believe it if it is. )

I have no problem with brutal honesty or whether other players on the team have their feelings hurt. It has absolutely nothing to do with “political correctness.” It has to do with my opinion that I think publicly bashing someone you have to work with as a unit is almost always counterproductive to producing what you’re trying to achieve, which is team chemistry, cohesion and cooperation.

I have no problem at all with what Nocioni said, it’s where and how he chose to say it. I totally understand his frustrations. He could express that without making negative comments about others. I also realize that some subtleties could be lost in translation.

Just imagine that every member of the team decided to give an interview and talk about what and who is wrong with this team. After all, if Noc can do it, so can everybody else. Let’s have all the coaches do it, too. We can have a media free-for-all, no holds barred. Yay.

Sorry, I think brutal honesty, any hurt feelings, blame and finger-pointing should happen face-to-face in private where everybody can either work it out or not without causing messy public mud-flinging. To me, that’s about productive civil discourse that’s more likely to produce a positive change.

It may frustrate fans, many of who seem to assume that if they don’t read or hear about things, that nobody is doing anything to correct issues, but that doesn’t make the assumption true.

 

[VF21]

I really don't see what the big problem is with Nocioni's comments. Is everyone afraid he hurt the feelings of a few multi-millionairs that haven't lived up to their contracts this year.

This is profesional sports, and if you can't handle brutal honesty and the truth than you don't belong. He only stated what everyone else can clearly see. The fans know it, the coaches know it, management knows it, and any player that doesn't know it and take accountability is in denial.

He spoke his mind. So what! Anyone that doesn't feel fustrated with the situation on this team doesn't belong here in the long run. Judging by the inconsistent effort on a nightly basis, I would say there are some players that don't care and have given up. For someone like Noc, who leaves everything he has on the court, that must be extremely fustrating. If the veterans would man up, play with some intensity, and pass the damn ball like they should, Noc wouldn't have said anything.

I wouldn't be suprised if tomorrow they come out with more fire than we have seen in a while. At that point, this conversation is over.

I'd add one more thing to this comment. Nocioni wasn't speaking with malice or vitriol.

Look again at the portion of the article RKid posted:

Andres Nocioni is authentic and very honest. On the court and outside of it. That's why, for many argentinians, he is as loved or more so than Manu Ginobili. When he has to play injured Chapu does it. And when he has to critique himself, he has no drama. No excuses nor words that that disguise the truth.

IF Andres was raging and saying he wanted out, that would be one thing. But he's not. I truly believe he cares and wants to make the best of being here.

Remember, Chris Webber was VERY vocal about not wanting to come to Sacramento. He changed his mind due in great part to us, the fans. Nocioni hasn't said he doesn't want to stay; he's said he wants his teammates to step up and play like they're being paid to do.

It's not about political correctness; it's not about keeping things in house, since that boat sailed a very long time ago. Nocioni is, as I've said, someone with passion and heart. He's not a malcontent. There are few members of our team who should have his words tattooed on their sorry posteriors.

He stood up and said what really needed to be said in front of God (or whatever other supreme being you might recognize) and everybody and he's taking the flak for it. I just hope the other players are paying attention.

I truly suspect we'll see a bit more energy and heart tonight from some of the guys who know Noc was speaking the truth.

BTW? Thanks everyone for making this discussion so interesting!

 

[kingsnation]

Yes the ones who actually DO CARE about the season will come out with more fire tonight. The ones who do not, will not.

While I agree with what Noc said, but not the avenue in which he said it - one thing is for certain... I am sure glad this guy is a King because this version of Sacramento players NEED someone to light a fire beneath them.

 

[kingsnation]

Also, I know that Coach Natt was on Sportsline yesterday with Grant, does anyone know if they discussed these comments at all?

 

[Oprostaj]

No, you're wrong. Bryant does not apply to this analogy, according to the criteria, because he has been much more successful, even on his own, relative to McGrady and Anthony.

More to the point, both of those guys have reputations as guys who can't win the big one, while Bryant most emphatically does not.

Bryant has been more successful on his own, yes, in terms of being a better player, staying healthy, but not in winning a championship, which is what success is based on. His teams have been better, and he is simply a superior player than either Tracy or Anthony. I'm not arguing that Bryant has more accolades, but I've never liked the rap that McGrady has gotten. He's always either injured, or the only player worth a damn on his team. Gordan Giricek was the main aqusition when they made their playoff run... I do blame him for the debacle a few years back when they had the pistons down 3-1. I'd have to watch the series again to see what happened, but if you are paid like a superstar, you better play like one. A great player when he was healthy, but unfortunately that time was few and far between.

Anthony, btw, is not a superstar. A very good scorer with limited other abilities - distributing, rebounding, defending, etc... and he still has plenty of time to match Kobe. Not really a fair comparison. I do get your point. I'm not trying to argue, even though it seems like it. I just never liked how Tracy was blamed. Yes, he got his money, and yes he ****ed the Rockets this year, I don't really care about him, just about the fact. Weird, I know.

 

[Rookie]

Well it's Nocioni's feelings about what is wrong and people's feeling aren't facts or truth, except to the person speaking. Not everyone will agree that everything Noc thinks is wrong with the team is true, but no one needs to be told there are things wrong with the Kings. Their abysmal record this year makes it a fact. So Noc's revelation is like saying the earth is round. Most people don't have to read it in the media to know that. (And the flat earth folks won't believe it if it is. )

I have no problem with brutal honesty or whether other players on the team have their feelings hurt. It has absolutely nothing to do with “political correctness.” It has to do with my opinion that I think publicly bashing someone you have to work with as a unit is almost always counterproductive to producing what you’re trying to achieve, which is team chemistry, cohesion and cooperation.

I have no problem at all with what Nocioni said, it’s where and how he chose to say it. I totally understand his frustrations. He could express that without making negative comments about others. I also realize that some subtleties could be lost in translation.

Just imagine that every member of the team decided to give an interview and talk about what and who is wrong with this team. After all, if Noc can do it, so can everybody else. Let’s have all the coaches do it, too. We can have a media free-for-all, no holds barred. Yay.

Sorry, I think brutal honesty, any hurt feelings, blame and finger-pointing should happen face-to-face in private where everybody can either work it out or not without causing messy public mud-flinging. To me, that’s about productive civil discourse that’s more likely to produce a positive change.

It may frustrate fans, many of who seem to assume that if they don’t read or hear about things, that nobody is doing anything to correct issues, but that doesn’t make the assumption true.

Agreed.

 

[John Galt]

No, you're wrong. Bryant does not apply to this analogy, according to the criteria, because he has been much more successful, even on his own, relative to McGrady and Anthony.

More to the point, both of those guys have reputations as guys who can't win the big one, while Bryant most emphatically does not.

... but so far, no rings without Shaq (which delights me no end). I hope that record stays intact, and I hope the Diesel rubs it in mercilessly. Hey, a guy can hope.

 

[rainmaker]

I'd add one more thing to this comment. Nocioni wasn't speaking with malice or vitriol.

Look again at the portion of the article RKid posted:



IF Andres was raging and saying he wanted out, that would be one thing. But he's not. I truly believe he cares and wants to make the best of being here.

Remember, Chris Webber was VERY vocal about not wanting to come to Sacramento. He changed his mind due in great part to us, the fans. Nocioni hasn't said he doesn't want to stay; he's said he wants his teammates to step up and play like they're being paid to do.

It's not about political correctness; it's not about keeping things in house, since that boat sailed a very long time ago. Nocioni is, as I've said, someone with passion and heart. He's not a malcontent. There are few members of our team who should have his words tattooed on their sorry posteriors.

He stood up and said what really needed to be said in front of God (or whatever other supreme being you might recognize) and everybody and he's taking the flak for it. I just hope the other players are paying attention.

I truly suspect we'll see a bit more energy and heart tonight from some of the guys who know Noc was speaking the truth.

BTW? Thanks everyone for making this discussion so interesting!

I completely agree. I could care less about political correctness in professional sports. As far back as elementary school if you are not playing with effort or playing the right way, the coach will let you know. If you don't change, you sit. Its part of sports. At the professional level, no matter what sport, sugarcoating your feelings doesn't do anybody any good.

I do think Noc wants to be here, as long as we progress as a team and organization. He didn't call anyone out by name. If any players were offended, chances are they are a cullprit, and aren't doing all they can do to compete at a high level on a nightly basis.

The only person that should be worried about what Noc said is Noc himself. He went public with his comments, and has taken a little heat for it. If he doesn't mind the backlash that comes with calling out your team, then more power to him. Thats what being a leader is all about. Standing up and saying what needs to be said, even if you know it might rub some people the wrong way. At this point, he is the closest thing to a leader we have besides BJax.

I don't buy the arguement that because he has only been here a month he should keep his mouth shut. For a while now we have all been waiting for Kevin to step up and be a leader. He hasn't. Maybe he will someday. But some people have it and others don't. If Noc feels that he is a natural leader, than you fill that role naturally no matter where you are. If the Kings come out with energy tonight, which I think they will, that means they respect Noc and what he had to say. I'm sure nobody in the locker room was thrilled to hear what Noc said, but as long as they repect it, its fine.

 

[fnordius]

Cold! But funny....

Some weeks ago, when I posted the words "cute for a lawyer" I knew that Brick would even up the score eventually.

He should bear in mind that I paid my dues in the legal field before changing careers, hence such comments from me will always be tongue-in-cheek.

And, as for myself, I will not lose track of the knowledge that Brick is on his way to joining the old fart community.