[NBA] East Finals

Who Ya Got?

  • Heat in 4

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Heat in 5

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Celtics in 4

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  • Celtics in 5

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    14
  • Poll closed .
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kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#31
If there's only 10 years in a decade and 3 rings is the minimum entry point to a dynasty, I think you just made a case that they are the norm.

That said, league does seem wider open than it has been at any time since the two years Jordan was playing baseball (kindly ignore the Rockets winning both years).

I think Slim is right - for the game to change significantly it will take a transcendent star and a creative coach who finds a way to exploit the current rules and the star to create a unique advantage.
how long before we see a new trend in the NBA? It will happen eventually, question is what group of players will set the stage for it.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#32
how long before we see a new trend in the NBA? It will happen eventually, question is what group of players will set the stage for it.
If you think about it, the big revolution was finding players that can shoot 40% from 3, causing the expected value of possessions ending with a 3point attempt to be 10-20pts per 100 attempts > hitting 50-55% for 2. As the league keeps moving outside and getting smaller, there will eventually open an opportunity for inside players who can hit over 60% inside to reset the odds back in the 2 point favor. I honestly think it may already be here but you see players with clear paths stop and jack up a 3, or with 2 on 1 breaks that are surely 75% have the second player trail for a 3. EVERY SINGLE TIME THOSE SHOTS MISS I DIE INSIDE. If a coach can teach players to correctly calculate those percentages and always take an uncontested dunk/layup instead of the kickback they will gain an edge.

The other solution is to adjust the 3pt shot so it reverts closer to a 33% shot.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#33
If you think about it, the big revolution was finding players that can shoot 40% from 3, causing the expected value of possessions ending with a 3point attempt to be 10-20pts per 100 attempts > hitting 50-55% for 2. As the league keeps moving outside and getting smaller, there will eventually open an opportunity for inside players who can hit over 60% inside to reset the odds back in the 2 point favor. I honestly think it may already be here but you see players with clear paths stop and jack up a 3, or with 2 on 1 breaks that are surely 75% have the second player trail for a 3. EVERY SINGLE TIME THOSE SHOTS MISS I DIE INSIDE. If a coach can teach players to correctly calculate those percentages and always take an uncontested dunk/layup instead of the kickback they will gain an edge.

The other solution is to adjust the 3pt shot so it reverts closer to a 33% shot.
two time MVP Giannis isn't reliant on three point shooting and he used his inside scoring among other ways to score and win a ship. If you remember back when Kawhi was with Toronto, he was killing it from mid-range. It's all there for the taking. There isn't one way to play just because there is a trend. Be the trend setter or breaker I say and win it with the players you have and are able to acquire. You don't have to be a dynasty to be content.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#34
two time MVP Giannis isn't reliant on three point shooting and he used his inside scoring among other ways to score and win a ship. If you remember back when Kawhi was with Toronto, he was killing it from mid-range. It's all there for the taking. There isn't one way to play just because there is a trend. Be the trend setter or breaker I say and win it with the players you have and are able to acquire. You don't have to be a dynasty to be content.
That's what I'm saying though, it's going to be a player(s) and a coach. Because I am pretty sure the 3-pt directive is taught.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#35
That's what I'm saying though, it's going to be a player(s) and a coach. Because I am pretty sure the 3-pt directive is taught.
there will be different teachings if the NBA decides to one day change the rules a bit in regards to making the three point shot the same distance all around as has been discussed in the NBA thread as well as giving defenses more freedom to defend rather than be timid to reach in because the offensive player will swoop under their arm, kick their leg out or flail their arms
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#36
there will be different teachings if the NBA decides to one day change the rules a bit in regards to making the three point shot the same distance all around as has been discussed in the NBA thread as well as giving defenses more freedom to defend rather than be timid to reach in because the offensive player will swoop under their arm, kick their leg out or flail their arms
oh I agree - I'm just saying that there is always an edge to be gained. People found that by increasing volume on 3pt attempts, averages would go up and expected value would favor the bold. Because of this traditional bigs are dinosaurs which means a new edge is there for the right genius to exploit.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#37
you mention a "new normal" but at what point does the NBA go back to what it once was?
I don't believe it ever has, but it seemed to me that the question was whether it could? I don't think it can, and I don't even think I'd want it to, but I'd like to see some sort of happy medium, which would probably require a team that was built around a center to create a championship dynasty.

Aren't trends changing all the time anyway?
That kind of depends on how macro or micro your view is on "time." The style of basketball that they were playing in the NBA the year they celebrated their 60th anniversary was remarkably similar to how they were playing when they celebrated their 50th anniversary. Which, in turn, was overall pretty faithful to how they'd been playing since the merger. I don't really think that trends change that much, at least not in terms of affecting how the entire league is playing.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#38
I don't believe it ever has, but it seemed to me that the question was whether it could? I don't think it can, and I don't even think I'd want it to, but I'd like to see some sort of happy medium, which would probably require a team that was built around a center to create a championship dynasty.
Would you be happy in a world where the best players were at other positions but even though big men could hit >30% from 3, there was a focus on cheap baskets at the rim again? No unskilled 7'2" players but also a Shaq would be expected to be 65/33/85?
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#39
Would you be happy in a world where the best players were at other positions but even though big men could hit >30% from 3, there was a focus on cheap baskets at the rim again? No unskilled 7'2" players but also a Shaq would be expected to be 65/33/85?
I would be happy in a world where post play matters again. I don't necessarily need for all of the best players in the league to be big men, as long as whomever the best players are are scoring down on the block. If your best player's go-to move is a turnaround jump hook, I don't care whether they're a center or a guard.
 
#40
I would be happy in a world where post play matters again. I don't necessarily need for all of the best players in the league to be big men, as long as whomever the best players are are scoring down on the block. If your best player's go-to move is a turnaround jump hook, I don't care whether they're a center or a guard.
I think some have forgotten that MJ was a great post player.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#41
I would be happy in a world where post play matters again. I don't necessarily need for all of the best players in the league to be big men, as long as whomever the best players are are scoring down on the block. If your best player's go-to move is a turnaround jump hook, I don't care whether they're a center or a guard.
I think we'll eventually reach a tipping point where the lack of traditional big men actually leads to a return to the interior game but how it manifests itself may depend on what type of player the next unicorn is.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#44
I don't believe it ever has, but it seemed to me that the question was whether it could? I don't think it can, and I don't even think I'd want it to, but I'd like to see some sort of happy medium, which would probably require a team that was built around a center to create a championship dynasty.


That kind of depends on how macro or micro your view is on "time." The style of basketball that they were playing in the NBA the year they celebrated their 60th anniversary was remarkably similar to how they were playing when they celebrated their 50th anniversary. Which, in turn, was overall pretty faithful to how they'd been playing since the merger. I don't really think that trends change that much, at least not in terms of affecting how the entire league is playing.
I don't believe it ever has, but it seemed to me that the question was whether it could? I don't think it can, and I don't even think I'd want it to, but I'd like to see some sort of happy medium, which would probably require a team that was built around a center to create a championship dynasty.


That kind of depends on how macro or micro your view is on "time." The style of basketball that they were playing in the NBA the year they celebrated their 60th anniversary was remarkably similar to how they were playing when they celebrated their 50th anniversary. Which, in turn, was overall pretty faithful to how they'd been playing since the merger. I don't really think that trends change that much, at least not in terms of affecting how the entire league is playing.
so in your view, what needs to happen in order to dictate how the entire league is playing?
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#45
I think we'll eventually reach a tipping point where the lack of traditional big men actually leads to a return to the interior game but how it manifests itself may depend on what type of player the next unicorn is.
correct. post play may not matter much now but it shall return once again and while it may not be a traditional style throw it to the big man down the block 20 times a game, it will be potent.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#46
so in your view, what needs to happen in order to dictate how the entire league is playing?
I feel like I've already answered that: it's going to take a team winning multiple championships playing a style that nobody else is playing, that forces general managers around the league to go, "I'm going to have to change the way my team plays, in order to compete with them!" If you're looking for a more detailed answer than that, I don't have one.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#47
I feel like I've already answered that: it's going to take a team winning multiple championships playing a style that nobody else is playing, that forces general managers around the league to go, "I'm going to have to change the way my team plays, in order to compete with them!" If you're looking for a more detailed answer than that, I don't have one.
what style of play will be the new trend, in your view?
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#50
I'd hope to see a return to dominant post play, but I honestly don't have the first damned clue. Don't even have a guess.
could it be something that was played maybe a decade or two ago and just brought back to life? I don't see much innovation awaiting for the sport unless rules change and the diameters of the court are changed.
 
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