My Hopeful Offseason

[twslam07]

The makeup of our team is very close to success. Like I have said many times, it is not that we don’t have talent, it is the fact that our talent doesn’t fit together too well. Our main needs are at SF and PF. I don’t like the idea of going after players that will just kind of fit. This mentality will never bring this team up out of the crapper. Let’s first look at our PF position:

• We need a defensive minded big man. He needs to be able to defend in the post, play team defense, and block shots. We need him to be athletic enough to guard the quicker PFs that Cousins can’t.
• We need a PF who is good on the boards. Pairing cousins with another rebound machine would be a disaster for other teams.
• We need a PF who does not require touches. He needs to be unselfish on offense and only take what the defense gives him.

These players seem to fit that description:

• Serge Ibaka
• Joakim Noah
• Derrick Favors
• Tyson Chandler
• Anthony Davis

Any of these guys would dramatically help out our defense, but if I had to choose one of these players I would go with Davis. So the question is how do we get Davis? If we don’t win the lottery we obviously would have to trade for him. In my opinion, Thornton and our pick are our biggest trade chips. It would be a good idea to involve these pieces in a deal for Davis. Perhaps this deal would work:

1st round pick
2nd round pick
Marcus Thornton
Jimmer Fredette

For

Anthony Davis

Charlotte, New Orleans, Cleveland, New Jersey, and Toronto would all be financially capable of doing this trade so it would be reliant on one of these teams winning the lottery.

So now on to our SF position:

• We need a sizeable player for this position. No more of this small ball. In a previous post it showed defensive statistics of different lineups. Thomas, Evans, Outlaw, Thompson, and Cousins were the best defensive lineup. When we actually had an actual SF playing SF, our team showed improvement on the defensive end.
• We need a SF who is a good three point shooter. At the rate Evans and Cousins get to the rim, we need to have a SF who can punish defenders for even thinking about playing help defense.
• We need a SF who is a good defender. We need another good perimeter defender who can relieve Evans of the defensive workload. Having at least two good perimeter defenders on the floor (Evans and SF) will help prevent breakdowns of the defense and thus less points in the paint which should result in less fouls for Cousins and more floor time.
• Lastly, we need a SF who knows his role. We don’t need to add a SF who thinks he should be a focal point of the offense. He should know that his role is supplementary and therefore he should be very unselfish.

So who comes to mind after reading this? In my opinion there are five players who fit this bill:

1. Nicolas Batum
2. Paul George
3. Kawai Leonard
4. Wilson Chandler
5. Landry Fields

I would be thrilled to have any of these players on our team. I’m sure they would fit in nicely. Batum is my first choice, but he will be a restricted free agent this offseason and Portland has a lot of room to resign him. Regardless I still think it is worth a shot to go after him. With Thornton and Fredette traded, Davis signed to his rookie deal, Greene released, Thompson resigned for 6 mil a year, Williams resigned for 2.5 mil a year, and Salmons amnestied, we will be around 19 mil under the cap. This will give us plenty of space to go after Batum. I would be willing to offer him double digit millions if necessary. He would be that good of a fit. Fields would also be a great rotational player for us off the bench. I think a contract around 4-5 mil a year might be good enough to land him. With the acquisition of Davis and Batum, I don’t think Fields could look at our team and say he doesn’t want to play here so I don’t think that would be an issue.

With these offseason additions our lineup would look like this:

PG – Evans/Thomas
SG – Williams/Fields/Garcia
SF – Batum/Outlaw/Honeycutt
PF – Davis/Thompson/Hayes
C – Cousins/Whiteside

8 man rotation – Evans, Williams, Batum, Davis, Cousins, Thomas, Fields, Thompson

I know most of you don’t think Evans is a PG, but I think sharing the duties with Williams will work out just fine. The perimeter defenders (Evans, Williams, Batum) would be excellent. All of them have size, length, and athleticism. Batum is a good shooter and Williams has shown improvement in his shot since entering the league. If Evans is capable of developing a good midrange game, I think our outside shooting will be fine. Davis and Cousins would be a dominant frontcourt for years to come. As perfect as a compliment can be. Davis immediately gives us the rim protector we desperately need. To add to that, he has a very high basketball IQ that helps him become even more of a defensive presence. The bench becomes very strong as two of our starters from last year will now be coming off the bench not to mention Fields who is capable of playing SG or SF. This team’s potential is off the charts and could be in many playoffs for years to come.

 

[Mass]

I agree with you about our needs, but unfortunately I don't see anything of this happening. We have broken s****y owners who won't spend a dime more than they have to on this team. They won't amnesty Salmons, they will sign some scrubs just to reach the minimum salary and that's it. I have no faith with this management. I'm pretty sure at the beginning of next year we will be here listening to Reynolds and Napier telling us how great Outlaw and Salmons are, that they had good games at the end of this year and this organization was right giving them another chance.

 

[Gary]

That team would be better with IT/Evans/Batum/Davis/Cousins imo.

In a draft like this year with a clear cut #1 there will be no trading of the top pick. The only way we get Davis is if we get the #1 pick. I don't think any team in the past that has had the #1 pick, when there was a clear cut #1 player, has ever traded that pick. I might be wrong though.

Also, why didn't you put Williams in that list of SFs? You want him starting or you wouldn't have put Evans at PG and moved Williams to SG, but Williams imo is a SF and a bench SF at that for the time being.

There can be issues forcing players to play positions they don't feel comfortable with Look at Evans at SF. You basically moving the SG back to PG and the SF to SG. Either small ball or big ball which you are playing now does not work.

 

[twslam07]

That team would be better with IT/Evans/Batum/Davis/Cousins imo.

In a draft like this year with a clear cut #1 there will be no trading of the top pick. The only way we get Davis is if we get the #1 pick. I don't think any team in the past that has had the #1 pick, when there was a clear cut #1 player, has ever traded that pick. I might be wrong though.

Also, why didn't you put Williams in that list of SFs? You want him starting or you wouldn't have put Evans at PG and moved Williams to SG, but Williams imo is a SF and a bench SF at that for the time being.

There can be issues forcing players to play positions they don't feel comfortable with Look at Evans at SF. You basically moving the SG back to PG and the SF to SG. Either small ball or big ball which you are playing now does not work.

I'm still a believer in Evans being able to play PG especially when he is paired with another playmaker. We saw progression from him this year when he played PG. I thought he did a good job of finding teammates for open shots.

I've always seen Williams as a SG that can play SF. Some people see him the other way. His height, wingspan, and standing reach are a little below average at the SF position and above average at the SG position. He has the athleticism to guard SGs so that's not a problem. He's kind of like Doug Christie in a way. Good vision, passing, rebounder, defender, and size.

I feel that all the SFs on that list have all the skills we need at the SF position. I didn't put Williams in the SF list because of his lack of size and 3pt shooting. I'm not saying he couldn't fill our SF hole, I was just looking for players who would fit it "perfectly."

I wouldn't complain to see a lineup of Thomas/Evans/Batum/Davis/Cousins, I just like the idea of having that extra size and strength at the guard positions as well as having players who can be elite defenders at their positions.

 

[twslam07]

I agree with you about our needs, but unfortunately I don't see anything of this happening. We have broken s****y owners who won't spend a dime more than they have to on this team. They won't amnesty Salmons, they will sign some scrubs just to reach the minimum salary and that's it. I have no faith with this management. I'm pretty sure at the beginning of next year we will be here listening to Reynolds and Napier telling us how great Outlaw and Salmons are, that they had good games at the end of this year and this organization was right giving them another chance.

Sadly, you are most likely right.

 

[bajaden]

The key to making any big move in freeagency is using the amnesty clause on Salmons! If we don't, then anything of merit will have to be done through trades. While your suggestions are ambitious, and would certainly make a huge difference in the team, I have doubts that any part of it, much less all of it, will ever happen. Without the amnesty for Salmons, and if we resign Thompson, which I think we should do, there's not much more we can do in freeagency of any significance.

Also, remember that when you start handing out double digit money to a player like Batum, your setting a precedent for Tryeke and Cuz in the future. We don't want to become the Atlanta Hawks of the west. Always good enough to make the playoffs, but never good enough to win the whole banana.

 

[twslam07]

The key to making any big move in freeagency is using the amnesty clause on Salmons! If we don't, then anything of merit will have to be done through trades. While your suggestions are ambitious, and would certainly make a huge difference in the team, I have doubts that any part of it, much less all of it, will ever happen. Without the amnesty for Salmons, and if we resign Thompson, which I think we should do, there's not much more we can do in freeagency of any significance.

Also, remember that when you start handing out double digit money to a player like Batum, your setting a precedent for Tryeke and Cuz in the future. We don't want to become the Atlanta Hawks of the west. Always good enough to make the playoffs, but never good enough to win the whole banana.

Salmons is definitely the key. His contract is large and we have many players that can play the wing. One of the only ways I can realistically see us ridding ourselves of Salmons is by trading back in the draft. It would be as simple as pairing Salmons and our pick for a worse pick. I know you are particularly fond of Jeff Taylor. Under any circumstance involving where we land in the lottery, would you be willing to do that trade and take Taylor with the pick?

Another option that has been talked about on this forum is Iguodala. Possibly swapping 1st round picks and swapping Salmons and Iguodala with them could be a good option for us.

 

[gatoradeSD]

We are terrible as a team in 3 pt shooting. getting rid of our 2 best three point shooters Thornton and Jimmer wouldnt help us

 

[hrdboild]

In a draft like this year with a clear cut #1 there will be no trading of the top pick. The only way we get Davis is if we get the #1 pick. I don't think any team in the past that has had the #1 pick, when there was a clear cut #1 player, has ever traded that pick. I might be wrong though.

Orlando trading Chris Webber in '93 is the only one that comes to mind. And while Penny Hardaway was on his way to a hall-of-fame type career at one point until all of his injuries, history has them on the wrong end of that trade.

I like where you ended up twslam07. I made a similar proposal a couple of months ago but the big sticking point here is that most of the defensive bigs on your wishlist are unavailable. Ibaka and Chandler are not getting traded any time soon and you'll have to overpay to get Favors, Noah, or Davis. So we're back to wishing to win the lottery which is hopeful like you said, but not likely.

I agree in principal though that we should be looking for a role-player at the PF position to balance out our front court and one more scorer at either of the wing positions, preferably someone who can hit the three consistently. Batum would be great but he's going to be expensive. We should be able to splash out big money on one free agent, even allowing for extensions to Evans and Cousins. But circumstances being what they are, I don't think that's likely either.

Setting aside the ownership situation though, I figure if we get that PF position handled in the draft (Davis, Drummond, Robinson), we'd have four years before we had to worry about a big contract for them, which opens up the books for a guy like Batum. If we instead go with a SF in the draft (Kidd-Gilchrist, Barnes, P. Jones?) we could look for a PF to sign, but unfortunately there aren't many of them out there that fit the criteria and deserve a large contract. Favors is at least worth asking about but Utah should ask a lot for him and our future pick is already locked up with Cleveland right now. I would add Tristan Thompson to the list as an alternative (defensive-minded PF, doesn't need a lot of touches) and he'd probably be cheaper than Favors after his disappointing rookie season. Kevin Seraphin in Washington is also worth a look.

 

[twslam07]

We are terrible as a team in 3 pt shooting. getting rid of our 2 best three point shooters Thornton and Jimmer wouldnt help us

And replacing them with two good 3 pt shooters (Batum and Fields) won't help?

 

[twslam07]

Salmons is definitely the key. His contract is large and we have many players that can play the wing. One of the only ways I can realistically see us ridding ourselves of Salmons is by trading back in the draft. It would be as simple as pairing Salmons and our pick for a worse pick. I know you are particularly fond of Jeff Taylor. Under any circumstance involving where we land in the lottery, would you be willing to do that trade and take Taylor with the pick?

Another option that has been talked about on this forum is Iguodala. Possibly swapping 1st round picks and swapping Salmons and Iguodala with them could be a good option for us.

And if we are able to do that deal for Iggy, who would we take with their pick? I'm guessing we should have at least a few options out of this group:

T. Jones
P. Jones
J. Lamb
Zeller
Henson
Marshall
Taylor
Leonard
Moultrie

What couple of players would you be targeting with this pick?

 

[twslam07]

Orlando trading Chris Webber in '93 is the only one that comes to mind. And while Penny Hardaway was on his way to a hall-of-fame type career at one point until all of his injuries, history has them on the wrong end of that trade.

I like where you ended up twslam07. I made a similar proposal a couple of months ago but the big sticking point here is that most of the defensive bigs on your wishlist are unavailable. Ibaka and Chandler are not getting traded any time soon and you'll have to overpay to get Favors, Noah, or Davis. So we're back to wishing to win the lottery which is hopeful like you said, but not likely.

I agree in principal though that we should be looking for a role-player at the PF position to balance out our front court and one more scorer at either of the wing positions, preferably someone who can hit the three consistently. Batum would be great but he's going to be expensive. We should be able to splash out big money on one free agent, even allowing for extensions to Evans and Cousins. But circumstances being what they are, I don't think that's likely either.

Setting aside the ownership situation though, I figure if we get that PF position handled in the draft (Davis, Drummond, Robinson), we'd have four years before we had to worry about a big contract for them, which opens up the books for a guy like Batum. If we instead go with a SF in the draft (Kidd-Gilchrist, Barnes, P. Jones?) we could look for a PF to sign, but unfortunately there aren't many of them out there that fit the criteria and deserve a large contract. Favors is at least worth asking about but Utah should ask a lot for him and our future pick is already locked up with Cleveland right now. I would add Tristan Thompson to the list as an alternative (defensive-minded PF, doesn't need a lot of touches) and he'd probably be cheaper than Favors after his disappointing rookie season. Kevin Seraphin in Washington is also worth a look.

Thompson was on my second tier list in terms of an "ideal" fit. I'm not sure how well Seraphin would fit. I have the impression that he is not athletic enough to play next to Cousins and guard the quicker PFs. I could be wrong. I would probably have to throw Dalembert, Udoh, and Jordan into the my second tier as well.

 

[VF21]

I agree with you about our needs, but unfortunately I don't see anything of this happening. We have broken s****y owners who won't spend a dime more than they have to on this team. They won't amnesty Salmons, they will sign some scrubs just to reach the minimum salary and that's it. I have no faith with this management. I'm pretty sure at the beginning of next year we will be here listening to Reynolds and Napier telling us how great Outlaw and Salmons are, that they had good games at the end of this year and this organization was right giving them another chance.

I think a lot of us are holding out hope that something positive will happen. Thus the personnel discussions. If we all just accept how bad the Maloofs are as owners and don't look any further, there's really not much to discuss.

 

[bajaden]

And if we are able to do that deal for Iggy, who would we take with their pick? I'm guessing we should have at least a few options out of this group:

T. Jones
P. Jones
J. Lamb
Zeller
Henson
Marshall
Taylor
Leonard
Moultrie

What couple of players would you be targeting with this pick?

Philly has the 15th pick in the draft. T. Jones, J. Lamb, P. Jones, Zeller, and Henson, will in all likelyhood be gone before that pick. Of that group, Taylor, Leonard, and Moultrie will probably be there. Others for consideration would Austin Rivers, Quincy Miller, Marquis Teague, Terrence Ross and Moe Harkless. These are all good players, and all will at worse be rotation players, and most will probably start for a team in the future. So its pick your poison.

If its a SF you looking at, then Taylor and Harkless would top my list, followed by T. Ross and Quincy Miller. Of the four, Miller if his ACL totally recovers has the most upside. In highschool he was often compared to Kevin Durant. That was before he blew out his ACL his senior year. Most scouts feel he didn't completely recover, which affected his play this past season. So the question is, will he ever recover the explosiveness he used to have. If you think he will, then you gamble and take him at 15.

If your looking for a big man, your probably down to Leonard, Moultrie, and maybe Henson, if he slides that far. Way down at the bottom is Fab Melo. I can see the first three being possible starters in the future. I see Melo as nothing but a rotational player. Nothing wrong with that, but if possible you'd like to pick someone thats starting material down the road. Leonard is a very athletic 7'1" 250 pound center. However, he's very raw, and would take some time to develop. But the reward could be worth it down the road. Moultrie is the most likely to come in and play right away. He's another above average athlete, who at 6'11, is agile enough to play PF or Sf. He's a good rebounder, and has shown flashes of playing good defense. As an all around player, he's my choice. I've never been a big fan of Hensons. I question how he'll fare against the quicker PF's and the bigger centers. He really doesn't have much in the way of offense, so your betting he'll be a defensive stopper. I'm just not so sure he will be.

So my two guys are Taylor and Moultrie, followed closely by Leornard and Harkless. I just want to say that I'd throw Royce White into this mix, except for all the other problems he brings along with him. He's a very talented guy, but he may slide all the way into the second round

 

[bajaden]

We are terrible as a team in 3 pt shooting. getting rid of our 2 best three point shooters Thornton and Jimmer wouldnt help us

Actually, I believe we were last in the league from behind the line. But hey, were consistent on both sides of the ball from behind the line. I believe we were battling for last in defending the three as well. Jimmer should help more next season. In college he shot well over 40% from behind the line, and actually ended up shooting around 38% this year I believe.

 

[Gary]

Actually, I believe we were last in the league from behind the line. But hey, were consistent on both sides of the ball from behind the line. I believe we were battling for last in defending the three as well. Jimmer should help more next season. In college he shot well over 40% from behind the line, and actually ended up shooting around 38% this year I believe.

Yah if I am not mistaken we were second to last for the season behind Charlotte, and if I also remember correctly we were not much better the second half of the season than the first half. Was like 32% or 31%.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Core options going forward should be either of these.

1.) Evans(SG) MKG(SF) DMC(C) Thornton(6th Man)- add a spot up PG(an improved Freddette?) and defensive PF
2.) Evans(PG) T-Will(SG) Barnes(SF) DMC(C) Thornton(6th Man) - add a big body (i.e. JT or someone better) next to Cousins
3.) Evan(SG) Drummond/Robinson(PF) DMC(C) Thornton (6th Man) - add a spot up SF who can defend (an improved Honeycutt?) and a vet PG