My Case for Greg Oden

[Hoovtrain]

Right. We may as well just sign Marc Gasol if we're looking for a young Marc Gasol. Too bad it's a bad fit next to Cousins. Too bad too because I've been enjoying watching his game in the playoffs.

Not that I think Cousins and Randolph are identical players, but Gasol and Randolph seem to be playing quite well next to eachother.

 

[Hoovtrain]

If, in the event we can't resign Dalembert, the I think my next choice might be Tyson Chandler, who is also an unrestricted freeagent. He played pretty well this year, and is also younger than Dalembert. The only question would be his health, as he's had a history of injuries

I was thinking Chandler as well. In looking at the FA crop, it just really isn't that impressive. Not too many options for back up big men. Not sure how much he would command, but I wouldn't mind taking a look at Kenyon Martin as a backup 4/5, if it were at the right price. He just recently said he wouldn't mind coming off of the bench, but I think he was referring to coming off the bench for a contending team.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Webber needed a fresh start because of his attitude. And it seemed to work out well for him. Oden needs a fresh start because of the weight of expectation (and the Sam Bowie history isn't doing him any favors). It's not a perfect analogy but I think a change of scenery can sometimes be like a second chance. I know a lot of fans still support him up there. He didn't try to get injured. But he's been walking in and out of the same training rooms for four years watching teammates come and go, talking to reporters about the same questions. You know it has to be wearing him down. Even if he does recover physically from the surgeries, will he be in shape mentally to compete like nothing ever happened? I think he can do it in Portland, but it'd be so much easier on him with a new team.

It may be, but Portland just seems to be unusually forgiving for a #1 pick that didn't come in a busted draft year. Maybe they're just in denial but it really is amazing the amount of support he gets here. If any other team blew money on him and he continued to be an IR guy it could get nasty.

 

[KingsCitizen]

If Dally ain't signing with us. I would say lets draft Kanter and let JT-Cuz start up front with young Enes and Whiteside in the rotation. Then use the ton of cash supposed for Sam on the very legit SF veteran and some more bench fire power and probably just get a cheap big vet for stability like Nazr, etc.

BTW, which would come first? The chance of resigning our FA (Dalembert, Thornton) or the draft night? Last year, I believe we traded for Dalembert before the draft night. But only signed FA after the draft. How about resigning team FA?

 

[Bricklayer]

If Dally ain't signing with us. I would say lets draft Kanter and let JT-Cuz start up front with young Enes and Whiteside in the rotation. Then use the ton of cash supposed for Sam on the very legit SF veteran and some more bench fire power and probably just get a cheap big vet for stability like Nazr, etc.

BTW, which would come first? The chance of resigning our FA (Dalembert, Thornton) or the draft night? Last year, I believe we traded for Dalembert before the draft night. But only signed FA after the draft. How about resigning team FA?

FA always happens the wekk after the draft.

Of course in a potential lockout year, who knows.

 

[Bricklayer]

If, in the event we can't resign Dalembert, the I think my next choice might be Tyson Chandler, who is also an unrestricted freeagent. He played pretty well this year, and is also younger than Dalembert. The only question would be his health, as he's had a history of injuries

Have always liked Chandler, but yhe problem there is that you have to outbid Mark Cuban, and you aren't going to outbid Mark Cuban. Chandler's season in Dallas has been a resounding success.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Alot of things I agree with in this thread. It feels fantastic talking about basketball again. Its been too long.

Dalembert is a must sign. Maybe more important than Marcus Thornton. Its that big of a deal. Look at the top teams .. They all have that goalie .. Noah, Perkins, Bynum, Duncan, Chandler, Howard, Horford ... Look at how much Chandler has helped Dallas, and how much the loss of Perkins killed the celtics.

I'd love Chandler, but I actually think Dalembert is the safer player ( not as injury prone ) and the better overall fit. I think Miami is going to go after Dally hard, I think Boston will be in the mix. New York, Portland ... Teams are going to want this guy. He could be a huge piece as a role player to one of these potantial contenders.

We have the money to sign him.... Will we have to overpay? Maybe. And if it gets out of hand we do have that one X factor ...

Hassan Whiteside. This guy was a top 15 pick this time last year. I still expect him to contribute at some point. He has all the defensive potantial in the world. Stranger things have happened ...

And Im not totally convinced Dalembert wants to resign here. He seemed happier after the Landry deal, but he DID complain about playing time at one point. And he has been very quiet compared to a guy like Marcus Thornton who has said time and time again that he wants to come back. I think Dalembert really wants to win ... If Miami can find a team to dump Millers contract on... look out. Dalembert on that team would be scary.

 

[bajaden]

Have always liked Chandler, but yhe problem there is that you have to outbid Mark Cuban, and you aren't going to outbid Mark Cuban. Chandler's season in Dallas has been a resounding success.

Yeah, good point there. Cuban seldom looses freeagents he wants to keep. Must be nice..

 

[bajaden]

Alot of things I agree with in this thread. It feels fantastic talking about basketball again. Its been too long.

Dalembert is a must sign. Maybe more important than Marcus Thornton. Its that big of a deal. Look at the top teams .. They all have that goalie .. Noah, Perkins, Bynum, Duncan, Chandler, Howard, Horford ... Look at how much Chandler has helped Dallas, and how much the loss of Perkins killed the celtics.

I'd love Chandler, but I actually think Dalembert is the safer player ( not as injury prone ) and the better overall fit. I think Miami is going to go after Dally hard, I think Boston will be in the mix. New York, Portland ... Teams are going to want this guy. He could be a huge piece as a role player to one of these potantial contenders.

We have the money to sign him.... Will we have to overpay? Maybe. And if it gets out of hand we do have that one X factor ...

Hassan Whiteside. This guy was a top 15 pick this time last year. I still expect him to contribute at some point. He has all the defensive potantial in the world. Stranger things have happened ...

And Im not totally convinced Dalembert wants to resign here. He seemed happier after the Landry deal, but he DID complain about playing time at one point. And he has been very quiet compared to a guy like Marcus Thornton who has said time and time again that he wants to come back. I think Dalembert really wants to win ... If Miami can find a team to dump Millers contract on... look out. Dalembert on that team would be scary.

While I agree in theory that all the teams you mentioned would love to have Dalembert, they do have a little problem. All four of them are considerably over the cap, and we aren't. I'm not quite sure how you dump Millers contract without taking something back in return. But as it stands now, none of those teams have any wiggle room.

Miami: 66.8 mil
Boston: 65.7 mil
New York: 69.6 mil
Portland: 65.8 mil
Kings: 25 mil
Last years cap: 58 mil

I would say we have a distinct advantage.

 

[rainmaker]

While I agree in theory that all the teams you mentioned would love to have Dalembert, they do have a little problem. All four of them are considerably over the cap, and we aren't. I'm not quite sure how you dump Millers contract without taking something back in return. But as it stands now, none of those teams have any wiggle room.

Miami: 66.8 mil
Boston: 65.7 mil
New York: 69.6 mil
Portland: 65.8 mil
Kings: 25 mil
Last years cap: 58 mil

I would say we have a distinct advantage.

I agree. The contenders who would want Dally just don't have the cap space to sign him, nor the ability to get into a bidding war with us. I don't know who would take Mike Millers contract either. He's had the worst year of his career, and it's only year one of his contract. No one will take that.

The team that scares me going after Dally is Houston. If they decide not to resign Yao, they'll have some money. I would still think Dally would think we have a better roster/opportunity going forward. Portland would be a good fit for Dally, playing alongside Aldrige, but I expect them to use their money on Oden, and we could still outbid them either way. Lets hope Dally is as high on playing next to a maturing Cousins as we are. The better Cousins gets, the easier Dallys job becomes.

 

[funkykingston]

The only way the Kings lose Dalembert is if he flat out doesn't want to return to Sacramento. Sure, there are 20 some odd teams that would love to have him and would throw their MLE money at him, but only a few with real caproom and none of them really scare me. And I don't have him pegged as a ring chaser. He's not leaving a (hypothetically) 4 year 44 million dollar deal from Sacramento to play for the veterans minimum in Miami. If Sammy likes being a King, he'll be back.

I'd actually be very surprised if either he or Thornton weren't suiting up for us next season.

 

[Glenn]

I recall some comment by Dallly that he liked playing here. I would HATE to lose him. It is a unique and powerful mesh of skills having he and Cuz on the floor at the same time. Point being, as desireable as Dally may be for any team to have, he is a special fit for our team. Cuz is not weak in many areas we well know. He is not the shot blocker and that makes the combo special. Add to it that Dally is not as impotent on offense as we once thought and I think he is a better player now than at the beginning of the year. As scary a thought as this might seem, I think he mentioned he plans to work on his offensive game. One side of me says "no, no" but then he doesn't need to work on defense so what's a guy to do. I think the 10-12 foot jumper could become routine for him.

I would be surprised and disappointed if Thronton and Dally didn't suit up. They are part of the new Kings identity.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

While I agree in theory that all the teams you mentioned would love to have Dalembert, they do have a little problem. All four of them are considerably over the cap, and we aren't. I'm not quite sure how you dump Millers contract without taking something back in return. But as it stands now, none of those teams have any wiggle room.

Miami: 66.8 mil
Boston: 65.7 mil
New York: 69.6 mil
Portland: 65.8 mil
Kings: 25 mil
Last years cap: 58 mil

I would say we have a distinct advantage.

Yea, I mean ... we obviously have the cap advantage, but Im not sure thats the most important thing when it comes to Dally. He already has one big contract under his belt... And I dont think him accepting the MLE .. or at least a salary lower than what we would offer him is out of the question.

Especially when you look at those teams and can say with a level of confidence that he WILL start and they WILL be good. He would start for Boston, he would start for NY, he would start for Miami .. and someone mentioned Houston .. he would start for all those teams, and they would be good.

Here in Sac .. with Westphal, you never know. And we wont be contenders, and .. sorry to bring it up .. we may still be moving.

My big picture point is that I dont think its a slam dunk Dalembert comes back. I think we want him too .. the fans and the owners, but If I had to put a number on it i'd say its 50 - 50. Players take pay cuts all the time to play on a good team these days. Dalembert is one of TWO defensive big FA's out there this year. Chandler isnt leaving Dallas .. so that leaves Dalembert as the lone stopper in a market where a lot of good teams need him.

Thornton doesnt worry me at all. He is a RFA so we have control, and he has said multiple times that he wants to be here. That deal should get done nice and easy.

Just for comparison .. Perkins signed a extension with the Thunder for 4yrs/34 Mil. Would you offer that to Dalembert? My head tells me Dalembert isnt as good as Perk.. and Perk is younger. He does have some injury risk though so it may all even out at the end. I'd feel better about 4 yrs/30 mil .. but if it came down to 4yrs/34 mil I'd have a hard time saying no.

 

[funkykingston]

Dalembert makes $12 million now. He'll likely take a pay cut but it won't be a huge one. Quite frankly I don't see him as a ring chaser. I think he wants to start and be paid. Even then there are a few other teams with caproom that might drive up his asking price by bidding against us.

My guess is that he is resigned for 4 years, $40 million. Ideally a decending deal giving him more money upfront (say 11, 10.5, 10, 9.5) but more than likely it will be flat deal.

 

[Glenn]

Unfortunately humans are involved although I think Dally is a tad more rational and less greedy than the averge human. He makes $13 mil like it or not. He is in his prime. If you were him would you take a cut of 50%? It's just not reasonable. If we don't think he is worth over $10 mil, who is? I'm not saying $20 mil or the $30 mil Kobe will make in a couple years but when these guys look around the league and see what the top people make, they will not settle for a pay cut of 50%. Maybe Dally would but I doubt it.

If we play hardball cheap **** with a guy integral to the team, true and tested, at the height of his game, we are not in this league to be taken seriously.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Unfortunately humans are involved although I think Dally is a tad more rational and less greedy than the averge human. He makes $13 mil like it or not. He is in his prime. If you were him would you take a cut of 50%? It's just not reasonable. If we don't think he is worth over $10 mil, who is? I'm not saying $20 mil or the $30 mil Kobe will make in a couple years but when these guys look around the league and see what the top people make, they will not settle for a pay cut of 50%. Maybe Dally would but I doubt it.

If we play hardball cheap **** with a guy integral to the team, true and tested, at the height of his game, we are not in this league to be taken seriously.

You just cant build a team like that though. Just because his last contract was 13Mil doesnt mean he deserves, or will be offered anything close to that.

The whole reason we were able to get him from Philly in the first place was because he was overpaid. They were willing to take Nocioni from us, who has a whole nother year on his terrible contract just to get out from under the Dalember deal.

You have to look at the market. You have to look at what other players that do the same thing are making ... You cant just base it off of the last deal.

Thats why I brought up Perkins. Similar player when it comes to being a stopper for your defense. Perkins signed for 4yrs at 34million and this is a young player who hasnt had that big payday Dalembert has.

Tyson Chandler, the other Big overpaid defensive guy, made 12.7 million this year in Dallas and is going to have to take a pay cut too. The only real reason these bigtime defenders change teams is because of bad contracts and injuries.

If someone offers Dally 10 million a year I'd be shocked.

 

[bajaden]

The only way the Kings lose Dalembert is if he flat out doesn't want to return to Sacramento. Sure, there are 20 some odd teams that would love to have him and would throw their MLE money at him, but only a few with real caproom and none of them really scare me. And I don't have him pegged as a ring chaser. He's not leaving a (hypothetically) 4 year 44 million dollar deal from Sacramento to play for the veterans minimum in Miami. If Sammy likes being a King, he'll be back.

I'd actually be very surprised if either he or Thornton weren't suiting up for us next season.

Yep, I agree! Wanting a player doesn't get you a player. Paying the money gets you a player, and the Kings have the money, and I might add, the Bird rights as well. The team we put on the floor at the end of the season was a very competitive team, and that should be our starting point going into freeagency. Dalembert turned out to be better in certain areas than I thought. He's a much better passer and a better offensive player than he showed in Philly. I don't know if this was just Dally unchained, or new found skills. Either way, it was a pleasant surprise, and, I might add, skills that Petrie values. So that bodes well for our wanting to resign him.

Thornton may be more difficult. He put on quite a show, and there are a lot of teams that would love to have him. Which may push his price up. Unless that price becomes totally unrealistic, I think we should do what it takes to bring him back on board. At the moment, Thornton = Kevin Martin. Which I think is an upgrade when considering what type of team were trying to become. Thornton can initiate the offense. Not one of Martins strengths. Which made him a poor fit next to Tyreke.

Add a good defensive SF with experience that can hit the open shot, and this team might have a shot at making the playoffs. That could be a longshot, but not totally out of reach, depending on who gets added to the team, and how much Evans and Cousins improve in the offseason. Cousins needs to watch as much film of himself from the past season, and see exactly what he needs to do to impove. Then work on those things. Tyreke? Jumpshot, jumpshot, and then finally, jumpshot. And with someone that has a reputation for developing players into good shooters. That hopefully excludes his brothers. Plus, get healthy, and get in the best shape of your life. If you want fewer foot problems, carry a little less weight. Ditto Cousins! A little less weight replaced with muscle = more quickness.

 

[bajaden]

You just cant build a team like that though. Just because his last contract was 13Mil doesnt mean he deserves, or will be offered anything close to that.

The whole reason we were able to get him from Philly in the first place was because he was overpaid. They were willing to take Nocioni from us, who has a whole nother year on his terrible contract just to get out from under the Dalember deal.

You have to look at the market. You have to look at what other players that do the same thing are making ... You cant just base it off of the last deal.

Thats why I brought up Perkins. Similar player when it comes to being a stopper for your defense. Perkins signed for 4yrs at 34million and this is a young player who hasnt had that big payday Dalembert has.

Tyson Chandler, the other Big overpaid defensive guy, made 12.7 million this year in Dallas and is going to have to take a pay cut too. The only real reason these bigtime defenders change teams is because of bad contracts and injuries.

If someone offers Dally 10 million a year I'd be shocked.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you. What makes this process so hard is that it takes time. You make an offer that you think represents his worth, and you then wait, while he goes and finds out what another team will offer. Eventually he'll come back with another offer, or not. Then, if it beats your offer you have a decision to make. All of this takes time, and this year there will probably be less of it. And during all this time, other teams are signing freeagents that you might be interested in. Bonzi Wells anyone? Now the Kings do have some wiggle room above the cap holds to work with, so their hands won't be totally tied. But the sooner they can get both Dally and Thornton resigned, the more money they'll have to work with in freeagency.

 

[hrdboild]

This is partially just me playing devil's advocate to keep the discussion going, but there's one thing about re-signing Dalembert that makes me nervous. This team won 24 games last season. If we re-sign Thornton (which I think we should, as long as the contract is reasonable) and Dalembert (same) then we're essentially bringing the same team back plus a mid-level free agent and a rookie and hoping they can win at least 15 or 20 more games because of good health and natural growth, both of which are entirely unreliable (as we saw this year). You factor in the close losses, a full season of Thornton, and all the games that Tyreke and Sammy missed and 15-20 more wins is not unrealistic, but it's not a certainty either. You'd think that with the most cap space in the league we could do better than that. I don't know that the franchise can withstand a fourth straight season of "wait and see".

 

[Glenn]

My point is that if we lose this team and all its potential simply because we low ball a player, I'll be angry. I'm not concerned about what is "right" or "proper" or "fair" or anything like that. I want to watch a winner and it's been a long time. We are perfectly comfortable with the cheap labor a guy on that extended rookie player contract affords us but some how it is a crime to spend. If we get outbid for Dally, I'll scream.

This team will continue to be a loser with this cheap *** attitude. It is soooo typical of the Sacramento fan. It's not our money!

 

[Bricklayer]

This is partially just me playing devil's advocate to keep the discussion going, but there's one thing about re-signing Dalembert that makes me nervous. This team won 24 games last season. If we re-sign Thornton (which I think we should, as long as the contract is reasonable) and Dalembert (same) then we're essentially bringing the same team back plus a mid-level free agent and a rookie and hoping they can win at least 15 or 20 more games because of good health and natural growth, both of which are entirely unreliable (as we saw this year). You factor in the close losses, a full season of Thornton, and all the games that Tyreke and Sammy missed and 15-20 more wins is not unrealistic, but it's not a certainty either. You'd think that with the most cap space in the league we could do better than that. I don't know that the franchise can withstand a fourth straight season of "wait and see".

Compare this 23win roster:
http://databasebasketball.com/teams/teamyear.htm?tm=OKC&lg=n&yr=2008

to this 50win roster:
http://databasebasketball.com/teams/teamyear.htm?tm=OKC&lg=n&yr=2009


Notice all the huge changes and acquisitions?

 

[LPKingsFan]

My point is that if we lose this team and all its potential simply because we low ball a player, I'll be angry. I'm not concerned about what is "right" or "proper" or "fair" or anything like that. I want to watch a winner and it's been a long time. We are perfectly comfortable with the cheap labor a guy on that extended rookie player contract affords us but some how it is a crime to spend. If we get outbid for Dally, I'll scream.

This team will continue to be a loser with this cheap *** attitude. It is soooo typical of the Sacramento fan. It's not our money!

This really has been a sticking point it seems like. If you're offering above market, even if it's a pay cut, it's not low balling. Offering Dalembert $14 million/year when no other team can and will offer anything close to that is simply silliness. It's not being cheap, it's being smart. Offer some suggestions of teams willing to pay Dalembert $14 million and the cap space to do so if you're so convinced.

 

[ParniValjak]

This is partially just me playing devil's advocate to keep the discussion going, but there's one thing about re-signing Dalembert that makes me nervous. This team won 24 games last season. If we re-sign Thornton (which I think we should, as long as the contract is reasonable) and Dalembert (same) then we're essentially bringing the same team back plus a mid-level free agent and a rookie and hoping they can win at least 15 or 20 more games because of good health and natural growth, both of which are entirely unreliable (as we saw this year). You factor in the close losses, a full season of Thornton, and all the games that Tyreke and Sammy missed and 15-20 more wins is not unrealistic, but it's not a certainty either. You'd think that with the most cap space in the league we could do better than that. I don't know that the franchise can withstand a fourth straight season of "wait and see".

OKC Thunder say hi!

And this team has a MUCH better balance in how it is constructed than the OKC team that made a massive jump from a 23 win team to 50 win team.

I have not doubt that if we resign Dalembert and Thornton, and sign a solid FA to address that SF position, this team will be a play off team this season (all things being equal). Obviously if we have crappy run with injuries to key players then things might be different but pound for pound, this is a play off roster.

 

[Glenn]

If you're offering above market, even if it's a pay cut, it's not low balling.

This sentence is our fundemental difference. You are implying that the market value of a guy in his prime could be a pay cut unless I miss the point. That's insulting to a lot of players and to me it doesn't make sense. A guy who is 29-30 is probably not going to get a whole lot better but certainly is not going to get worse in the immediate future. He offers veteran leadership, something that has value to Cuz. Watch their relationship when they are on the bench. These guys like each other. Let us not forget the Cuz problem as perhaps Dally has been a great help to him.

Long story short - signing Dally gives us Dally and may help Cuz which is a good thing.

I'm not picking a number because that isn't my point. Well, not my entire point. At a certain point it IS silliness but I don't think that is going to happen. No one has a lot of cap space to get into a bidding war. Some teams have cap space but I count on Dally wishing to stay here because of relationships developed especially with Cuz. He certainly can see the future of this team and if he has an ego, his stay here could do for him what the Kings did for Webber except on a smaller level. Otherwise put, he may become the best player he can be by staying here. He said he likes Westphal because Westphal has encouraged him to play a little offense. He said no other coach has asked anything of him but to block shots and rebound. Name a player who doesn't like to score and who would like it if he was told to not even try. So there is an intangible non-monetary appeal to staying here.

And there are the fans.

Of course we pay market price but I have seen suggestions that he should get $4-8 mil per year or in that ball park. I think the man who he is, the fact he is in his prime and has proven to be a far greater addition to this team than we expected, we do what we can to keep him. I don't know where my cut off point is because it depends on other signings especially the free agent market.

I doubt if he'd demand a raise but we'll find out and until we sign him, because of the mysteries of the effect his salary has on our cap space, I hope we settle quickly with him.

To make my point, I wouldn't fight over a million dollars.

 

[Glenn]

OKC Thunder say hi!

And this team has a MUCH better balance in how it is constructed than the OKC team that made a massive jump from a 23 win team to 50 win team.

I have not doubt that if we resign Dalembert and Thornton, and sign a solid FA to address that SF position, this team will be a play off team this season (all things being equal). Obviously if we have crappy run with injuries to key players then things might be different but pound for pound, this is a play off roster.

Is there anyone else who disagrees with this? I wouldn't guarantee 50 wins but if we don't pop over 41 wins, I will be immensely surprised. 50 wins wouldn't surprise me. Then the fun begins and I WANT FUN!

 

[ParniValjak]

Is there anyone else who disagrees with this? I wouldn't guarantee 50 wins but if we don't pop over 41 wins, I will be immensely surprised. 50 wins wouldn't surprise me. Then the fun begins and I WANT FUN!

Obviously there are some people.

The way I look at it we are a bee's proverbial away from getting there as is. If we can address that revolving door at SF by adding a quality player and some veteran leadership to the bench, we WILL get there.

Just like OKC, we finished the season really strongly. We have all the major pieces in place. Our front court rotation of Dally-Cousins-JT is one of the best in the league and if we can add a heady veteran leader that can play both 4 and 5 to that mix we would really round it out nicely. A younger version of Kurt Thomas would be perfect.

With Thornton-Reke-Beno you have a VERY nice 3 guard rotation. Now we could also add another 4th guard (additional ball handler) to increase the overall quality of depth in the backcourt, an upgrade on Jetter. Say a Shannon Brown type player and you have a quality back court going forward where each player is capable of playing more than 1 guard position if needed.

Now on the the biggest achilles heel, the revolving door at SF. Sign a player like Kirilenko (a heady defensive vet who provides some leadership, defense, ball handling and is not completely useless on the offensive end) and you become one heck of a team.

This team needs to resign Dally and Thornton as main priorities and then go out and get players like Kirilenko, a Kurt Thomas type and a Shannon Brown type and not only do you become a play off team but a play off team with ridiculous depth and enormous potential for growth in the next 2-3 years. That new arena could well be crowned with a championship banner!

 

[bajaden]

My point is that if we lose this team and all its potential simply because we low ball a player, I'll be angry. I'm not concerned about what is "right" or "proper" or "fair" or anything like that. I want to watch a winner and it's been a long time. We are perfectly comfortable with the cheap labor a guy on that extended rookie player contract affords us but some how it is a crime to spend. If we get outbid for Dally, I'll scream.

This team will continue to be a loser with this cheap *** attitude. It is soooo typical of the Sacramento fan. It's not our money!

I understand where your coming from. I truely do. But the worse thing a team can do is overvalue a player. Thats how you end up with a player like Villanueva making 7.5 million a year. Or Eddie Curry making 11.5 million a year. Dalembert's worth will be determined by the free market. Teams will make offers, and we will have the final say, because with his Bird rights, we can match any offer.

It is my humble opinion that simply because Philly decided to overvalue him, and pay him more that he's worth, that doesn't mean we have to. We can't just sign him at any cost. If you do, what do you tell Cousins, or Evans, or any other player on the team when its their turn?

However I do think you have to be fair and pay him what he's worth. So I'm not trying to devalue him either. I think you have to look around the league and see what the going rate is for players that you can equate to him. Whether he's in his prime or not is debatable. A player is in his prime when his physcial, mental, and skill growth are all at their peak. Usually thats around the 4th or 5th year in the league. But it can vary from player to player. Some players like Olajuwon seemed to peak the moment they walked onto the floor. But thats the exception.

I could make a good case that he actually peaked 4 years ago when he averaged 10 ppg, 2.3 bpg, and 10 rpg. And that the three years prior to that were also good years, especially in the shotblocking area. I could make a case that his numbers have declined a little since then. Now there may good legitimate reasons other than declining skills for those numbers to drop. But if I'm negotiating a contract, I'm going to bring them up. Small though they may be.

Personally I think Dally has 3 to 4 good years left in the tank. I also think that for him to keep a high level of play, he needs to spend even more time keeping his body in good shape. I hope everyone is reasonable and a deal gets done. And I think it will get done. First we have to see whats in the new CBA..

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Too big of a risk to invest much in, in my opinion. I'd take a gamble on him if it was relatively cheap and not a long term contract, but that's it.

 

[ParniValjak]

I understand where your coming from. I truely do. But the worse thing a team can do is overvalue a player. Thats how you end up with a player like Villanueva making 7.5 million a year. Or Eddie Curry making 11.5 million a year. Dalembert's worth will be determined by the free market. Teams will make offers, and we will have the final say, because with his Bird rights, we can match any offer.

It is my humble opinion that simply because Philly decided to overvalue him, and pay him more that he's worth, that doesn't mean we have to. We can't just sign him at any cost. If you do, what do you tell Cousins, or Evans, or any other player on the team when its their turn?

However I do think you have to be fair and pay him what he's worth. So I'm not trying to devalue him either. I think you have to look around the league and see what the going rate is for players that you can equate to him. Whether he's in his prime or not is debatable. A player is in his prime when his physcial, mental, and skill growth are all at their peak. Usually thats around the 4th or 5th year in the league. But it can vary from player to player. Some players like Olajuwon seemed to peak the moment they walked onto the floor. But thats the exception.

I could make a good case that he actually peaked 4 years ago when he averaged 10 ppg, 2.3 bpg, and 10 rpg. And that the three years prior to that were also good years, especially in the shotblocking area. I could make a case that his numbers have declined a little since then. Now there may good legitimate reasons other than declining skills for those numbers to drop. But if I'm negotiating a contract, I'm going to bring them up. Small though they may be.

Personally I think Dally has 3 to 4 good years left in the tank. I also think that for him to keep a high level of play, he needs to spend even more time keeping his body in good shape. I hope everyone is reasonable and a deal gets done. And I think it will get done. First we have to see whats in the new CBA..

That all well and good BUT players like Dalembert are the highest payed players after the star because they have enormous importance to team's ability to win a title. Dalembert might not be worth 12 million but he sure as hell is in the 8-10 million range and he might well be worth more to us considering how well he fits with Cousins. It is NOT easy to find a player that could fit with Cousins as well as Dalembert does because of his ability to guard PFs.

Its not just a matter of picking up a Oden or Perkins type for cheaper and plucking them next to Cousins. While both are good defensive players, neither of them can guard PFs so your front court becomes slow and less athletic. Dalembert has shown he is a great complement to Cousins. The only other player that comes to mind as being able to provide the same sort of fit is Noah and he is earning the same money that Dalembert is.

 

[LPKingsFan]

This sentence is our fundemental difference. You are implying that the market value of a guy in his prime could be a pay cut unless I miss the point. That's insulting to a lot of players and to me it doesn't make sense. A guy who is 29-30 is probably not going to get a whole lot better but certainly is not going to get worse in the immediate future. He offers veteran leadership, something that has value to Cuz. Watch their relationship when they are on the bench. These guys like each other. Let us not forget the Cuz problem as perhaps Dally has been a great help to him.

Long story short - signing Dally gives us Dally and may help Cuz which is a good thing.

I'm not picking a number because that isn't my point. Well, not my entire point. At a certain point it IS silliness but I don't think that is going to happen. No one has a lot of cap space to get into a bidding war. Some teams have cap space but I count on Dally wishing to stay here because of relationships developed especially with Cuz. He certainly can see the future of this team and if he has an ego, his stay here could do for him what the Kings did for Webber except on a smaller level. Otherwise put, he may become the best player he can be by staying here. He said he likes Westphal because Westphal has encouraged him to play a little offense. He said no other coach has asked anything of him but to block shots and rebound. Name a player who doesn't like to score and who would like it if he was told to not even try. So there is an intangible non-monetary appeal to staying here.

And there are the fans.

Of course we pay market price but I have seen suggestions that he should get $4-8 mil per year or in that ball park. I think the man who he is, the fact he is in his prime and has proven to be a far greater addition to this team than we expected, we do what we can to keep him. I don't know where my cut off point is because it depends on other signings especially the free agent market.

I doubt if he'd demand a raise but we'll find out and until we sign him, because of the mysteries of the effect his salary has on our cap space, I hope we settle quickly with him.

To make my point, I wouldn't fight over a million dollars.

If it came down to a difference over a million, I hope Petrie caves.

Now, as for your point about the market value of a guy not doing down in his prime. I have two primary contentions with this.

First, it assumes Dalembert is earning the market value. I don't think it's a stretch to say he has received over-market value over the past few years. Now, he certainly seems to have found his niche with us, and for that I am happy. But the nature of the NBA is such that players receive long term guaranteed contracts, and teams have to make an estimate of what the players' services are worth. I think it is fair to say that Philly may have estimated a bit highly.

Second, and this is key, is that the market itself has changed. Sure, there are guys making ridiculous deals (Drew Gooden comes to mind) but there have also been some more recent contracts of players similarly situated, or even better than Dalembert, signing for less. Kendrick Perkins' extension has been cited often, and rightfully so. But also think about Al Horford. Al Horford! A top young power forward, budding star, is making $12 million/year. And Dalembert should not receive a cut from his $13? I think it's safe to say that the market has at least shifted somewhat. Especially with a new CBA possibly implementing a harder cap, and maybe the cap itself even coming down w/ league revenues supposedly declining... add that up and I think it's fair to say the market is different than when Dalembert signed his deal.

At the end of the day, I hope this really doesn't matter. Dalembert seems to like us and we certainly seem to like him. I think the Kings are certainly justified in offering Daly something along the lines of the Perkins extension, and should add that if he gets a reasonably higher deal elsewhere, we'd be happy to match. I don't think that's asking too much from either side.