More Reasonable Preseason Rankings

[tbear03]

I like the stuff on Fox Sports, usually, and this one wasn't too bad (aside from the Mavs being ahead again):

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3075054

Sean Deveney's 2004-05 Power Poll
Sean Deveney / http://www.tsn.com/
Posted: 1 day ago

1. Pistons. Rasheed Wallace returns with the same core of players and a bigger, deeper bench.

2. Spurs. Were short on long-range clutch shooting last season and are counting on Brent Barry to fix that.

3. Timberwolves. Latrell Sprewell, Sam Cassell and K.G. are the Big Three, but the first two are getting old fast.

4. Pacers. Stephen Jackson brings athleticism and shooting, but he can't carry this team past Detroit.

5. Mavericks. High expectations can be met only if Erick Dampier repeats last season's stellar performance.

6. Rockets. Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady -- either a dynasty in the making or a disaster waiting to happen.

7. Heat. Shaq is here. But where are the reinforcements?

8. Kings. Chemistry? What chemistry? Maybe some bad blood in the locker room will inspire these guys.

9. Lakers. Center and point guard will be problems, but the Lakers have depth. Oh, and they have Kobe Bryant.

10. Jazz. Looks like the post-Stockton-Malone rebuilding plan took all of one year to complete.

11. Nuggets. Kenyon Martin will firm up the inside defense, but Carmelo Anthony will have to share the ball.

12. Grizzlies. Repeating last season's 50 wins will be difficult without a true center on the roster.

 

[tbear03]

Even ESPN's aren't too bad either (and have the Mavs behind the Kings):

Pistons Begin Where They Left Off: No. 1
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerranking?season=2005&week=-1

1 (3) Pistons 54-28 You know by now the treatment defending champs get here. Especially when their roster looks better, with Dice and Delfino, than it did in June.

2 (1) Spurs 57-25 Pop says he 'hated' the Shaq trade because beating the three-peaters was the ultimate challenge. The bet here is he'll get over it once these Spurs start rolling.

3 (2) Timberwolves 58-24 No one doubts them in the playoffs any more. The doubts of note are attached to Cassell's hip, because Sam I Am absolutely has to be healthy for Minny to stay up here.

4 (14) Heat 42-40 The committee has always found South Beach to be a bit overrated. But that was before it became Shaq-apulco.

5 (4) Pacers 61-21 Yup. That really is three teams from the East in the top five. And, yes, Pacer People: Your arguably underrated squad has to start out third after what Detroit and Miami did.

6 (9) Nuggets 43-39 It's a big jump up here, true, but Nuggets' frontcourt rotation really is one of the biggest and best. K-Mart, Camby, Nene . . . before you even get to Melo? Solid.

7 (12) Rockets 45-37 As with Denver, some will say this is too steep a climb, especially since Rockets have PG issues. But we like the T-Mac move that much, along with the Juwan throw-in.

8 (6) Kings 55-27 Maybe no team is harder to assess at this stage. Kings still have C-Webb, Peja, Bibby, Bobby Jax and Brad Miller . . . but start anew with more tension and doubt than they've seen in years.

9 (10) Jazz 42-40 Joining Jerry Sloan's overachieving kids this week: Carlos Boozer, Mehmet Okur and the rehabbed Matt Harpring. Three boosts for a team no one liked playing before.

10 (7) Mavericks 52-30 There's still too much there to drop Dallas out of the top 10 sans Nash. That said, looks like Mavs still have too many scorers and not enough passers, even if they do improve on D.

11 (21) Suns 29-53 Yet Nash is rated highly here, which is why Suns have risen so dramatically. The glut of swingmen, mind you, could be a trouble spot unless one of them (Marion most likely) is moved.

12 (8) Grizzlies 50-32 Hubie's back and Grizz might be even deeper than they were, but the surprise factor is gone. Memphis won't sneak up on anyone any more, which makes that next step even tougher.

13 (5) Lakers 56-26 It's only out of respect for Kobe's prodigious talents and Rudy T's ability to connect with stars that LA is this high. Seriously: LA's smallish roster is no lock for a playoff spot.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I still don't get why we're ranked worse than the T-Wolves. They barely beat us with an injured Webb and Jackson, have euqual if not worse chemistry and injury issues, and have a core of players who are getting older, not better.

 

[SacKings384]

I still don't get why we're ranked worse than the T-Wolves. They barely beat us with an injured Webb and Jackson, have euqual if not worse chemistry and injury issues, and have a core of players who are getting older, not better.

Not only that but both Cassell and Spree are BOTH looking for new contracts... I believe Cassell even missed some practices as a sort of holdout...

 

[LPKingsFan]

Not only that but both Cassell and Spree are BOTH looking for new contracts... I believe Cassell even missed some practices as a sort of holdout...

Yeah, those were the chemistry issues i was referring to. Close to, if not worse than the Peja situation we have here. Wally also is getting increasingly antsy about wanting to be moved to NY. How are they still ranked higher?

 

[vladetomiller]

They have still got that guy called Garnett, who could arguably be the best player in the planet (definitely its between KG,KB,TD,SO).

That team did well without cassell and spree and with them maybe they managed to reach the Conf Finals. But you can also say that it was the maturity of KG, that new guy hassell etc etc.

I picked them last year to reach the conference finals and they did . This year i pick them to reach the conf semis and maybe have a chance to reach the finals if they dont run into a clicking rockets team or a surprising lakers team. Other than that its a tossup between them and the spurs if they meet each other.

My picks for the west are

spurs
wolves
mavs
suns

and the rest

 

[HndsmCelt]

Bah! I just want to watch some games... all this preseaon blather about rankings is page filler for guys who are required to turn something in to their publisher.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Not only that but both Cassell and Spree are BOTH looking for new contracts... I believe Cassell even missed some practices as a sort of holdout...

I dunno, Cassell was playing hurt, too...so I guess it might have balanced out in the end, plus they didnt have Troy Hudson. So we kinda got off easy with them in that series, that turned out to be pretty entertaining.

 

[VF21]

They have still got that guy called Garnett, who could arguably be the best player in the planet (definitely its between KG,KB,TD,SO).

Yeah, as long as you're not a rookie playing in a scrimmage against him.

 

[bibbyweb]

I still dont agree with the rankings. Kings are ranked too low.

 

[bibbyweb]

I dunno, Cassell was playing hurt, too...so I guess it might have balanced out in the end, plus they didnt have Troy Hudson. So we kinda got off easy with them in that series, that turned out to be pretty entertaining.

He might have been playing hurt, but he still played very well. We had injuries to Webber, Jackson out and the last game even Peeler wasnt there. Also Miller had some problems with his elbow as well. So, I don't think that we got off easy. If anyone did it was the TWolves who got off easy.

 

[KingKong]

The Kings should not be less than fifth on any list. I don't see how getting the 8th seed is more reasonable. We are better than the Pacers, Mavs, Rockets, Nuggets and Miami. Yes, we still have to wait awhile before we can assess the team and create feasable rankings for the teams, but judging from last year and the years prior we shouldn't be less than numero 5.

 

[Variant]

Too many questions surrounding our roster changes and alleged disharmony in the locker room... to us fans, it seems pretty unfathomable that this will actually have much of an affect on how the team plays, but I imagine the MSM, who probably spend about 15 minutes on these lists just take the gloss-over surface look and base their opinion on that.

 

[50pts]

mavs higher than kings?? i dont think so

 

[vladetomiller]

Yeah, as long as you're not a rookie playing in a scrimmage against him.

So you remember the bad things about the other teams , i thought you were above that and that you only look at positives. (refer thread about voisin,webber knee for those who dont get this )

But anyhow whats the point, i missed that

 

[harbingerofdoom]

Heat at 4? (yes I realize this is not the Heat forum)

way to high.

I have it this way.

1 Pistions
2 Spurs
3 Twolves
4 Pacers
5 Kings
6 Rockets
7 Heat
8 Lakers
9 Jazz
10 Cavs

I cant put the Kings any higher than that because of the unknown of Webbers knee, the potential for infighting. I have them as high as they are because they are the same team that was on the floor last year with the exception of Divac. The backup PF concern is handled (Songaila, I think, is a lot better than most people realize and he will see some good minutes this year) While we dont have a clear cut backup at the 2 as of yet, I think Martin will be able to step up to that role. He wont be spectacular, but he will do fine. As far as the absense of Divac, that is why Ostertag was brought in. Divac wasnt going to start this season in Sac anyway.

Ultimately, this team has what it takes to go to the finals. If they play like it, then they will be able to do it.

 

[joethecrow]

I don't see how you can have the Kings above 10. 8 is pushing it, but 5? I think your optimism is nice, but I don't think it's realistic.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't see how you can have the Kings above 10. 8 is pushing it, but 5? I think your optimism is nice, but I don't think it's realistic.

Let's see, a team which has finished 1st through 4th in the West for 4 straight years, won the third most games in the entire NBA over that span, won three Pacific Division titles and lost the last one on the final day of the season, has been to at least the conference semi-finals four straight years, and returns 6 of its top 7 players from last year (and arguably with Songaila 7 of 8), and its unrealistic to have them ranked above 10th in the league??

 

[VF21]

So you remember the bad things about the other teams , i thought you were above that and that you only look at positives. (refer thread about voisin,webber knee for those who dont get this )

But anyhow whats the point, i missed that

The "bad things" you were referring to were primarily intangibles. There's nothing intangible about a seasoned veteran and league MBP mugging a rookie because the rookie outplayed him during practice. My point was in reference to you calling Kevin Garnett the best player on the planet.

If people are going to criticize and demean Chris Webber for their interpretation of some of his statements, then how can they in good conscience NOT penalize the God KG for blatant thuggery?

 

[vladetomiller]

I never defended KG, you assumed i did (or maybe you are referring to someone else ).

But you defended webb for far more serious offenses than a little thuggery during practice

 

[joethecrow]

Let's see, a team which has finished 1st through 4th in the West for 4 straight years, won the third most games in the entire NBA over that span, won three Pacific Division titles and lost the last one on the final day of the season, has been to at least the conference semi-finals four straight years, and returns 6 of its top 7 players from last year (and arguably with Songaila 7 of 8), and its unrealistic to have them ranked above 10th in the league??

Well I am glad you have a firm grip of the past, but it means nothing this season.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well I am glad you have a firm grip of the past, but it means nothing this season.

Do tell. By any chance are you related to Ms. Cleo?

 

[VF21]

I never defended KG, you assumed i did (or maybe you are referring to someone else ).

But you defended webb for far more serious offenses than a little thuggery during practice

If I were referring to someone else, I wouldn't have quoted you.

I didn't say you defended KG. You called him "arguably the best player on the planet."

I disagreed. I think the title of "best player on the planet" should go to someone who doesn't mug their own rookies because they've outplayed them during practice.

It doesn't have anything to do with Chris Webber. But, for the record, Webber's offenses weren't physical, they didn't involve action against a teammate, etc. To me, they're entirely separate and different types of situations. While what Webber did in lying to the grand jury and then violating whatever drug provision it was that he violated may have "hurt" the Kings, he has not EVER struck out against a teammate. KG did. That stinks.

 

[joethecrow]

Do tell. By any chance are you related to Ms. Cleo?

Nope not related to her, have any Ray Charles in your bloodline?

I wonder how many of those new bench players we have can hit an open jumpshot. I'm looking forward to them getting many minutes in Adelman's bench he'ssaid he will utilize more this year in several interviews...one opposing team with a shade of interior presence makes me cringe at the thought of these guys shooting. This bench will not keep us in games. But hey, we have past success to make jumpshots and defend...that should help. Nothing like a Pacific division banner to knock down a 18 footer. It will make the work for the starters that much more...and should unfortunate injury plague us...we're effed. I'm not being negative, I am being realistic, it's only more satisfying if the Kings succeed and prove my early speculation wrong...but if you want to really say that on paper we are better than several other teams in the West because of what we have done in the past...we're not.

 

[vladetomiller]

Good assesment joe. Kings will miss the bench more than the fans think, the bench was able to get the lead against the opposition bench or maintain the lead and that was cruicial in many games. Kings can still be in the top four but thats going to need lots of hard work and team chemistry which is a question at this point

Again VF21 we differ in that regard, how do you say that KG is different by any means when compared with webb. While KG might have hit a rookie, webb has called out many of his valuable teammates and i think both are similar. but then i know you will defend webb and find fault with any other nba player that doesnt play for the kings

 

[Bricklayer]

Nope not related to her, have any Ray Charles in your bloodline?

I wonder how many of those new bench players we have can hit an open jumpshot. I'm looking forward to them getting many minutes in Adelman's bench he'ssaid he will utilize more this year in several interviews...one opposing team with a shade of interior presence makes me cringe at the thought of these guys shooting. This bench will not keep us in games. But hey, we have past success to make jumpshots and defend...that should help. Nothing like a Pacific division banner to knock down a 18 footer. It will make the work for the starters that much more...and should unfortunate injury plague us...we're effed. I'm not being negative, I am being realistic, it's only more satisfying if the Kings succeed and prove my early speculation wrong...but if you want to really say that on paper we are better than several other teams in the West because of what we have done in the past...we're not.

Let's see, so last year we lost the Western Conference crown in the last week, with a one-man bench for most of the year (Bobby for 50 games, Brad for the last 23), and now with a one-man bench the story suddenly changes? Why exactly? You may have missed this but we've got 4 guys in the starting lineup alone who are annually in the All-Star hunt. Our bench to start this year is Bobby/Songaila/Ostertag, compared to last year's Bobby/Songaila/Massenburg. So I am to assume then that the grand total of your insight in this matter is that Anthony Peeler is SO much better than Kevin Martin or Courtney Alexander that he singlehandedly drops us from contention into also ran status?

Remarkable.

 

[joethecrow]

Let's see, so last year we lost the Western Conference crown in the last week...

Again, this is completely meaningless...once again, you're living in the past. But I'll humor your next point since you want to single my opinion out and be condescending about it.

...with a one-man bench for most of the year (Bobby for 50 games, Brad for the last 23), and now with a one-man bench the story suddenly changes? Why exactly?

Well let's see, we had Vlade. And well, we don't have Vlade. Chris is still here...say for some unforseen circumstance...Chris goes down...which isn't all to unreasonable due to the fact that he has average 55 games a season for his career (and that knee isnt getting any stronger)...that one man bench...is now no longer. No team has ever one with a 6 man rotation. The 7 man didnt work last year, did it? I mean, since you want to base past success on the fact that we were short handed...and suceeded...how bout the fact Chris gets injured and, by your theory, will probably get injured again.

Don't forget, the T-Pups were also without Wally Sczcerbiak and Troy Hudson.

You may have missed this but we've got 4 guys in the starting lineup alone who are annually in the All-Star hunt.

Sweet deal...and I am sure glad we do...but unfortunately...we need not only them, but the depth. This team has been plagued by injury in the past. We won because we had that depth, and we had a solid big man in Vlade to make up the difference. Greg Ostertag is no Vlade Divac, and never will be, nor will he be able to ever match the production on a consistent basis should the highly likely injury occur. The depth is not there...if you think it is...there are beeping crosswalk signs at most major intersections for your safety.

Our bench to start this year is Bobby/Songaila/Ostertag, compared to last year's Bobby/Songaila/Massenburg. So I am to assume then that the grand total of your insight in this matter is that Anthony Peeler is SO much better than Kevin Martin or Courtney Alexander that he singlehandedly drops us from contention into also ran status?

When Martin/Alexander lead the league in three point percentage...I will be the first one over here to say, you were right...but since we both know that's not gonna...well I know that's not going to happen...I'll let you continue to be optimistic.

Remarkable.

Thanks...I like to think so. Several times I have come over here, and had you criticize what I have to say, singling my opinion out, which is cool, I don't mind stating my opinion and backing it up in debates with you...but maybe you should see my post for what it is and try not to single my opinion out as a complete and utter offensive against the Kings chances, because in all honesty...it's just a preseason ranking that I don't really find all that off...and I stand by that. I wonder where the Pistons were on last years ranking...

My opinion is based on the limited preseason action I have seen and the roster we currently have. There is nothing that has happened in the past going to change the situation now. So agree to disagree and we can move on.

- Joe, a Kings Fan.

 

[Biggie Hitzzz]

Crow is right on. Bricklayer, you've got some thick blinders on.

This Kings team has way too many questions as they enter the season:

(1) How will Webb's knee hold up. Lets not forget he will be playing in back-to-backs and those always fun 3 games in 4 nights on the road.

(2) How will Peja conduct himself after demanding a trade and still not wanting to be here?

(3) How is this young, inexperienced bench going to do. The Kings will have injuries and these young guys will get minutes. The bench is thin this season.

(4) How will the Kings do without Vlade. Lets be honest, Vlade was the closest thing this team had as a leader. Not to mention a great playmaker in their offense. He ran the show last season when Webb went down.

(5) Whose going to get the rebounds. The Kings center and PF love to shoot the outside shot.


When you wipe all that fog off your glasses Brick, you may see the same questions others do. Funny thing is, I think most members on this board wear the same glasses.

 

[Kingsgurl]

I think it's a fair assessment to say there are many questions to be answered in the upcoming season. However, assuming that everything that can go wrong will is just as myopic as a view as being too optomistic. Some people like to approach the season with hope and a positive outlook, some like to take the pessimistic, we're heading to the lottery outlook. Some people like purple tinted glasses, some the black tinted shades of gloom.

 

[Bricklayer]

Again, this is completely meaningless...once again, you're living in the past. But I'll humor your next point since you want to single my opinion out and be condescending about it.

Well let's see, we had Vlade. And well, we don't have Vlade. Chris is still here...say for some unforseen circumstance...Chris goes down...which isn't all to unreasonable due to the fact that he has average 55 games a season for his career (and that knee isnt getting any stronger)...that one man bench...is now no longer. No team has ever one with a 6 man rotation. The 7 man didnt work last year, did it? I mean, since you want to base past success on the fact that we were short handed...and suceeded...how bout the fact Chris gets injured and, by your theory, will probably get injured again.

Don't forget, the T-Pups were also without Wally Sczcerbiak and Troy Hudson.

Sweet deal...and I am sure glad we do...but unfortunately...we need not only them, but the depth. This team has been plagued by injury in the past. We won because we had that depth, and we had a solid big man in Vlade to make up the difference. Greg Ostertag is no Vlade Divac, and never will be, nor will he be able to ever match the production on a consistent basis should the highly likely injury occur. The depth is not there...if you think it is...there are beeping crosswalk signs at most major intersections for your safety.

When Martin/Alexander lead the league in three point percentage...I will be the first one over here to say, you were right...but since we both know that's not gonna...well I know that's not going to happen...I'll let you continue to be optimistic.

Thanks...I like to think so. Several times I have come over here, and had you criticize what I have to say, singling my opinion out, which is cool, I don't mind stating my opinion and backing it up in debates with you...but maybe you should see my post for what it is and try not to single my opinion out as a complete and utter offensive against the Kings chances, because in all honesty...it's just a preseason ranking that I don't really find all that off...and I stand by that. I wonder where the Pistons were on last years ranking...

My opinion is based on the limited preseason action I have seen and the roster we currently have. There is nothing that has happened in the past going to change the situation now. So agree to disagree and we can move on.

- Joe, a Kings Fan.

Oddly this may shock you, since it appears that you are in favor of developing insto-amnesia with the start of each new season, but last year was the FIRST year we EVER had a quality starter to step in in place of Webber -- we had exactly one year where we had more than 8 guys who played regularly. Strangely enough, in previous seasons when the best we had was Indiana's 12th man (Pollard) or our own 11th/12th man Fundy, who isn't even in the league anymore, we somehow survived. Tag and Songaila are at least as much depth as Pollard and Fundy were. In fact we've survived injuries to just about ever major player on the team and just kept on winning.

We won't win a title with people hurt in the playoffs, but this team has proven repeatedly that the talent is so deep that its hardly going to fall apart when somebody goes down for a while during the season. But I know that's all in the past, and of course the past means nothing, and the Bobcats have as good a chance to win the title this year as the Pistons.

Yes, think we will have to agree to disagree.

P.S. If we can't find anybody who can duplicate Peeler's hefty 5.7ppg average last year, you are right, we will be in trouble.