More Reasonable Preseason Rankings

[VF21]

Well...I have no idea where you got the "likes tough bully leaders" thing from. Indeed by now I would have thought my run ins with bully types over the years would have been well known. Get in MY face and...well...

In a somewhat ironic twist, your comment above says what I was attempting to say, although I phrased it poorly. BTW, I didn't say "likes tough bully leaders"... I said, "...respects the tough leader with a touch of bully."

Bully was probably the wrong term to use. As far as sports go, I perceive you as someone who WILL, if necessary, resort to recipriocal violence in some manner if you feel it is the only effective response to a situation. For example, I recall you saying something about how you'd retaliate against rough players with some of their own medicine. That, to me, is different than someone like Tim Duncan, who seems more inclined to use finesse.

But once again it boils down to the definition of "best player on the planet." My opinion of KG is that he's basically a street thug with an incredible gift. On the other hand, Tim Duncan is an educated player who also has incredible gifts but utilizes them with more finesse and less thuggery. That may not matter to some, and thus KG is widely viewed as the very best. It matters in my mind, however, so Tim Duncan would be at the top of my list.

 

[Bricklayer]

How is Duncan built better for playoff success? I thought he had a better team than KG, thus more success. If KG played for SA and Duncan in MN, KG just might have the rings.

Same way Shaq is built for playoff success -- dominant post player. When games slow down, and every possession counts, its always been a tremendous asset to have somebody you can just throw the ball in a pressure situation and have a high % chance to score. Same way Hakeem was built better for the playoffs than Robinson.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Same way Shaq is built for playoff success -- dominant post player. When games slow down, and every possession counts, its always been a tremendous asset to have somebody you can just throw the ball in a pressure situation and have a high % chance to score. Same way Hakeem was built better for the playoffs than Robinson.

Gotcha. Half-court game.

 

[Bricklayer]

In a somewhat ironic twist, your comment above says what I was attempting to say, although I phrased it poorly. BTW, I didn't say "likes tough bully leaders"... I said, "...respects the tough leader with a touch of bully."

Bully was probably the wrong term to use. As far as sports go, I perceive you as someone who WILL, if necessary, resort to recipriocal violence in some manner if you feel it is the only effective response to a situation. For example, I recall you saying something about how you'd retaliate against rough players with some of their own medicine. That, to me, is different than someone like Tim Duncan, who seems more inclined to use finesse.

But once again it boils down to the definition of "best player on the planet." My opinion of KG is that he's basically a street thug with an incredible gift. On the other hand, Tim Duncan is an educated player who also has incredible gifts but utilizes them with more finesse and less thuggery. That may not matter to some, and thus KG is widely viewed as the very best. It matters in my mind, however, so Tim Duncan would be at the top of my list.

I think you're arguing that "best" is a matter of taste? I can't really see that unless you're starting to include a lot of essentially non-basketball related categories into your "best basketball player". There's tons and tons of room for argument over who's the "best", but I don't think who we like the best is part of it.

Perhaps you are aiming for "most admirable" perhaps? Or who you'd most like to have on the Kings.

 

[VF21]

Okay, I'll concede that "best" is subject to definition and MY definition might be skewed towards "most admirable," at least in part. BUT - and this is important - there have been players I really admired that I would never call best. Fundy immediately comes to mind.

I guess I tend to lump the whole image thing into the equation. If someone is going to be represented as best, I would like to think one of the qualities he had would be sportsmanship.

So, what goes into determining which player is best? Is it pure statistics? How do you decide KG is best and not Tim Duncan, for example?

 

[Bricklayer]

Well, I give the nod to KG because he can pass, dribbble, score inside and out, and defend a wider variety of people than Duncan.

Duncan is more of a classic big man specialist. What he does well, he does better than Garnett (interior defense, post play), but Garnett does a wider variety of things -- a true renaissance basketball player.

Of course there's all sorts of room for debate on how to balance those traits but I would doubt many would argue the trait analysis itself is off.

(And just as an aside, I don't consider EITHER of them to be all-time Top 10 greatest players great).

 

[joethecrow]

Why did my post get deleted? Can someone PM me as to why? I was furthering a discussion, not causing problems? Any explination would be welcome.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You were "furthering" a discussion that has been dead for a month and long since forgotten? You must be using some new definition of the word "furthering" that I was previously unaware of...

Like I said before, there should be a statute of limitations on bumping old threads.