Michael Porter Jr

Or the smart choice
Maybe, but I was responding to the comment that perhaps the kings floated Porter to gauge fan reaction.

I’m not saying he’s going to make the smart choice, however if he had the number one pick last year and passed on Fultz for Tatum, there would have been pitchforks on this site. The thought of Tatum falling to the kings at 5 last year was cringeworthy to most at this time last year.
 
On defense I think he’ll be good but not some DPOY type guy every year. He’s average on the perimeter as a defender and guards blow past him. I think perimeter defense is more important now for a big over rim protection. On offense teams can still go small on us with 0 repercussions Bamba can’t post up SFs or even bigger guards. His feel for the game is mediocre to bad as well his assist rate is bad and he only averaged 0.6apg. Also in the post he’s not explosive at all and was blocked or didn’t finish shots he should’ve finished which is concerning.

I think a guy like WCS could do what we want from Bamba on defense. Provide good pick and roll defense and protect the paint to a point.

I have Jaren Jackson way ahead of Bamba he’ll be just as elite in defense but is oozing with potential on offense

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/04/16/bet-mo-bamba-bet-athletic-development/
Thank you for the link, and your reply. I really like the idea of Luka being our pick. I see a very fun style of basketball in our near future regardless of who we select out of the obvious "consensus" top picks. I also respect your opinions regarding Mo.

When is the last time were all were so active on the boards and excited / nervous about anything positive? Trying to enjoy it in a way. Apologies if my initial reply was harsh. I think I had been biting my tongue a little longer than I should have. ;)
 
Maybe, but I was responding to the comment that perhaps the kings floated Porter to gauge fan reaction.

I’m not saying he’s going to make the smart choice, however if he had the number one pick last year and passed on Fultz for Tatum, there would have been pitchforks on this site. The thought of Tatum falling to the kings at 5 last year was cringeworthy to most at this time last year.
Which just indicates most NBA fans aren’t qualified to be GM’s. It’s not clear Vlade is either though he has some positives and some negatives in his columns. This pick will be defining. It’s good he’s doing his due diligence.
 
Maybe, but I was responding to the comment that perhaps the kings floated Porter to gauge fan reaction.

I’m not saying he’s going to make the smart choice, however if he had the number one pick last year and passed on Fultz for Tatum, there would have been pitchforks on this site. The thought of Tatum falling to the kings at 5 last year was cringeworthy to most at this time last year.
I have to admit I was anti Tatum. I just thought Rudy Gay 2.0 ISO heavy guy that forces things. Has great 1 on 1 skills but not a team positive guy for a fluid offense.

THIS IS WHY AMERICAN COLLEGE BASKETBALL IS AWFUL. Colleges are in win (absolutely right now) situations every year. The coaches are so overpaid that they act like dictators and few have any pro game savvy. Which they don't need seeing how they almost never move up. Its a weird system usually for star players. The role players can be so far below their talent level.

If his back checks out Im MPJ all the way. He's made to be a star in todays NBA. He basically did a red shirt Joel Embed year. Luka is also the no brainer here but he does seem to have a lower ceiling. I could live with either. Both could be franchise guys.
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
Porter isn't half the athlete Rudy Gay was coming out of UConn. Gay was much stronger, had a longer wingspan and was much more explosive.

The idea that Porter's floor comps are near all-star level and long time NBA veterans is ridiculous.

A more athletic Rashard Lewis or Keith Van Horn might be his best case. Maybe a poor man's Durant - less ball skills and defense. Like a more athletic but less skilled Brandon Ingram.
Rashard Lewis was a 2 time all star and porter is more ahtletic i will take that. we have had exactly 1 Allstar in 12 years
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
So I am glad we will finally get an exam from Our Guy and a review of all imaging and medical records

But the part of your post I am most interested in is "They either think he's healthy, or he's not. And if they think he's healthy, it sounds 99.9% sure that they pick him #2."

so this is Grant's opinion? that he is sure 99% porter will be picked? or did he actually hear FO tell him that?
Napier never says the source on something like this. You have to read between the lines that he talked to someone in the know in the FO. One of the few times that I ever heard Napier being blindsided on something like this was when he said the Kings wouldn't entertain going after Artest because he was a head case, and then they made the deal for Artest; he was totally dumbfounded with that announcement. Other than that I can't recall where he made an announcement like this and was wrong.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Have you guys seen the result of the draft poll? The fanbase wants Luka in a landslide. If the FO drafts MPJ the fanbase will be completely ambushed and outraged. If that’s how the FO is leaning they need to get the word circulating now or they will have a PR disaster on their hands.
Maybe that is why they are getting the word circulating.
 
People who say Porter is a "tweener" clearly have no idea how the nba has developed and how the game is played today. There are no more such things as "3/4 tweeners". Those are wings and actually pretty valuable player types (has some perimeter ability plus some size). Much, much more valuable than traditional fours.
 
I'm watching a kid drop 47 points in highlights and all I can think is that I really hope the Kings don't draft him.

That's not a good sign.
Should be a good sign - because if you can see it, surely Vlade can see it.

Drafting Porter should be Vlade’s second to last big move (the last being to fall on his sword and resign)
 
You really shouldn't hold those two games against him. I know it's hard to do and that's why everyone hates him but he was coming back from major injury to a team he'd never played with. Tough situation.
He's never had anyone else on his team that was nearly at his level, so he's gotten used to being a very ball dominant player because he was simply the best player on his teams. I think it's a legitimate concern, with the question being whether he can adapt to distribute the ball or is already too locked into his ways. When he came in late in the season for those two cringeworthy college games, he said all the right things and seemed to really be trying to play alongside a sharpshooting unselfish Mizzou team. He was still mostly a ball stopper, but I know it's hard to change your wiring in a short time. I have to believe that in time he'll learn to play unselfishly, with the benefit of the NBA environment and NBA talent alongside him.
 
Running theme has been that MPJ is playing against shorter players. When you're 6'11, just about everyone is shorter than you. He's played in the McDonald's All American game and won MVP. Played on USA U18 national team and was their best player. So he's played against full sized competition.

Setting aside the obvious issue with his back, I agree that not seeing him play in college is troubling. Loose handles and lack of strength is troubling. The talent level and potential is undeniable. But there is just a high risk/ high reward thing going on here. Does that kind of risk make sense for this franchise and for Vlade? Not sure it does. Not at #2. It's not MPJs fault he hurt his back and couldn't show what he could do in college. It's also not a knock on the Kings if they're not willing to take the risk and MPJ ends up being a star.
 
I've really enjoyed the DimeDrop videos this draft season. The production value, pacing, humor, analysis (even when I don't agree) is always good and they are entertaining as well. I'm glad to see he's picking up subscribers and I hope he does this for drafts to come

Anyway, he posted his thoughts about Porter so the subsequent video will likely show up in the next day or two:

https://www.dimedrop.net/playerdeepdives/mpj
 
I've really enjoyed the DimeDrop videos this draft season. The production value, pacing, humor, analysis (even when I don't agree) is always good and they are entertaining as well. I'm glad to see he's picking up subscribers and I hope he does this for drafts to come

Anyway, he posted his thoughts about Porter so the subsequent video will likely show up in the next day or two:

https://www.dimedrop.net/playerdeepdives/mpj
Video is up:

 
He's very critical of Michael, but all of those criticisms are warranted. I think he mirrors everybody else. If he's healthy, he might become one of the best players in the NBA. His framework of being 6'11 with a silky smooth jump shot is something you rarely see, and when you do see it, these players among the greats in the NBA.

The video production from them is great.
 
He's very critical of Michael, but all of those criticisms are warranted. I think he mirrors everybody else. If he's healthy, he might become one of the best players in the NBA. His framework of being 6'11 with a silky smooth jump shot is something you rarely see, and when you do see it, these players among the greats in the NBA.

The video production from them is great.
He has a much higher opinion of Porter's upside than I do but otherwise I found myself agreeing with the majority of his analysis. Most importantly I agree that I wouldn't grab him top 5. And for the Kings a kid with no college tape, some glaring holes in his game and coming off a microdiscectomy is a really hard to swallow gamble at #2.

The list of ifs that it takes to project Porter as a star should concern anyone.

IF he's fully healthy now
IF the back injury doesn't affect his career down the road
IF he can tighten up a really loose handle
IF he can add muscle and develop the ability to play more physically
If he can develop a post move beyond a fadeaway jumper to punish smaller defenders
If he can show any semblance of a defensive stance and ability
If he can make his teammates better

Lots of ifs.

And all of it hinges on IF he has the burning desire to develop and be great

He compares Porter to a 6'11" Malik Monk. I would never have thought of that comparison but I can see it a bit.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I'm watching a kid drop 47 points in highlights and all I can think is that I really hope the Kings don't draft him.

That's not a good sign.
I really don't have a dog in this hunt, but I'm curious as to why? I saw nothing in that video that turned me off. I actually liked his pursuit on defense. His handles were fine, even though he got a bit loose with the ball at times. I mean unless your so committed to someone else that you cant even consider Porter, I fail to understand what it is you don't like.
 
I really don't have a dog in this hunt, but I'm curious as to why? I saw nothing in that video that turned me off. I actually liked his pursuit on defense. His handles were fine, even though he got a bit loose with the ball at times. I mean unless your so committed to someone else that you cant even consider Porter, I fail to understand what it is you don't like.
I don't like that his go-to move, to the exclusion of everything else, is a pull-up jumper. Or in the post, a turnaround/fadeaway jumper.

It's so rare to see him actually get by his defender and that concerns me greatly. A lot is made of Doncic's lack of wiggle and quickness but he gets where he needs to be far more often than Porter.

He's got great length and very good athleticism for his size so those are positives for him but while the dunks and chase down blocks make for good highlights it's the lack of a good defensive stance or any real fight on defense or the boards that really concerns me.

I think (at least early on and maybe for longer) he's going to be a very inefficient scorer on the next level. And while he plays a different game than Wiggins, it's a similar case of, how else do you help your team beyond being an inefficient scorer?
 
Some silly tin foil hat stuff to mull over as we kill time, waiting for the draft:

When we traded Cousins, it was reported that Vivek really wanted (may have even demanded) either Buddy or Ingram coming back. The Lakers couldn't get a deal on the table fast enough, so we ended up with Buddy.

Ingram was the last prospect that was heavily touted as having KD like potential.

Perhaps Vivek sees Porter as another chance at getting a player like Ingram, who may or may not develop into a high scoring wing, like KD.

We all know that Vivek really wants to emulate the Warriors. I don't really have a problem with that in theory, why not follow the blueprint of a team that is arguably the best even constructed (even before their cheat mode aquisition of KD)?

I'm pretty sure Vivek has compared Buddy to Klay, people are starting to throw around Dray as a comp for Giles. MPJ gets compared to KD... Vivek may be " gently encouraging" - certainly not meddling, he doesn't do that anymore - the MPJ pick.

Or it could just be that Porter has a super high ceiling, has been killing it in workouts, and is rightfully earning his hype as we approach the draft. This post is admittedly just for funsies.

Aside: I like Buddy. At times, he looked like our best player. Dude is adding to his game, and I'm sure he'll have more tricks up his sleeve next season. So maybe Vivek isn't so bad at spotting talent! :p
 
I just don’t like this kid’s tape. He looks like a gift from the gods in an open gym or in practice drills, but put nine other players around him in a structured game and its jist so meh. He’ll splash some nice jumpers from deep, have a highlight dunk, and gran some boards...but none of it really jumps off the screen as the work of a future star SF. A future really nice stretch 4...yeah.
 
I don't like that his go-to move, to the exclusion of everything else, is a pull-up jumper. Or in the post, a turnaround/fadeaway jumper.

It's so rare to see him actually get by his defender and that concerns me greatly. A lot is made of Doncic's lack of wiggle and quickness but he gets where he needs to be far more often than Porter.

He's got great length and very good athleticism for his size so those are positives for him but while the dunks and chase down blocks make for good highlights it's the lack of a good defensive stance or any real fight on defense or the boards that really concerns me.

I think (at least early on and maybe for longer) he's going to be a very inefficient scorer on the next level. And while he plays a different game than Wiggins, it's a similar case of, how else do you help your team beyond being an inefficient scorer?
Not to mention when he does get around his guy and gets to the basket, his handle in doing so makes Buddy Hield's handle look like Steph Curry's. It's really bad. Like really bad. He is going to be a turnover machine in the NBA if he tries driving past anyone.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I liked the video and thought it was fair. I was surprised he didn't have the info on how Porter hurt his back, and what Porter had to say about his upright position. Maybe he made the video prior to some of the interviews with Porter. For those that don't know, Porter hurt his back in his sophmore year of highschool when he got undercut on a dunk and fell straight down on his back. He said he played his junior and senior years with some back discomfort, and that was why he played so upright. It hurt his back to get into the normal crouched position on defense, or to get into a lower dribbling position.
 
I don't like that his go-to move, to the exclusion of everything else, is a pull-up jumper. Or in the post, a turnaround/fadeaway jumper.

It's so rare to see him actually get by his defender and that concerns me greatly. A lot is made of Doncic's lack of wiggle and quickness but he gets where he needs to be far more often than Porter.

He's got great length and very good athleticism for his size so those are positives for him but while the dunks and chase down blocks make for good highlights it's the lack of a good defensive stance or any real fight on defense or the boards that really concerns me.

I think (at least early on and maybe for longer) he's going to be a very inefficient scorer on the next level. And while he plays a different game than Wiggins, it's a similar case of, how else do you help your team beyond being an inefficient scorer?
Exactly Doncic gets killed for that but I’ve never seen porter get to the basket and that’s bs HS competition
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Exactly Doncic gets killed for that but I’ve never seen porter get to the basket and that’s bs HS competition
You act as though his dominating at the highschool level is a negative. I mean what the hell was he supposed to do? Not dominate? Look, the situation is what it is. He hurt his back and we never got a chance to see him play at the college level. But remember, all the other guys that you might like who did play in college, dominated at the highschool level as well. The difference is, that at the time, Porter was ranked higher than all of them. So logic tells us, that if they succeeded in college, that Porter, if healthy would have as well.
 
Part of me worries that Vlade’s assessment is on the PlayStation level of getting caught up in hype like this. He also needed Giles (that may have worked out well by all the behind the door acclamations). But still.. I wish we had a proven, seasoned GM
 
You act as though his dominating at the highschool level is a negative. I mean what the hell was he supposed to do? Not dominate? Look, the situation is what it is. He hurt his back and we never got a chance to see him play at the college level. But remember, all the other guys that you might like who did play in college, dominated at the highschool level as well. The difference is, that at the time, Porter was ranked higher than all of them. So logic tells us, that if they succeeded in college, that Porter, if healthy would have as well.
The post you quoted wasn't about him dominating high school. It was about the fact that regardless of the level of competition he very rarely was able to beat a defender off the dribble. He could raise up and shoot over anyone but drafting a wing at #2 whose primary value is scoring but can't attack the rim off the bounce is concerning.

Honestly I think the talk of Michael Porter at #2 is unbelievable really.

Shabazz Muhammad was a #1 overall recruit out of high school. Skal was top 5 if not top 2 or 3. There's a reason GMs want to see these kids against a higher level of competition. Often it confirms what we know. Sometimes it shows that a kid wasn't as good as we thought.

But the idea that the Kings would take a kid who not only didn't play a meaningful game at the college level (considering the tape from the two Missouri games hurts him more than ignoring them) but missed the season due to back surgery is crazy. And the idea that the surgery not only left him good as new but will actually help fix a major concern of his game - his upright posture while dribbling and not being able to sit in a proper defensive stance - is crazier still.

If Porter goes 5-8 and turns into a star I'd never hold it against the Kings for choosing to not take that risk.

But if they were to take him at #2 and he were to turn out to be a poor player or bust either due to recurring back injuries or just not succeeding on the NBA level I'd absolutely hold it against them. It's a risk not worth taking when there are other (I'd argue better) talents that both have good game tape on the NCAA (or Euroleague) level and don't have an injury history.