McLemore, what are your expectations?
- Thread starter bajaden
- Start date
It is interesting as I do not know if I will be watching Ben, per say.
My gut tells me that he will be inconsistent all year long, and at the moment would have to make tremendous strides to supplant Thornton as the starter. So unless there is an injury I do not expect him to be getting a ton of minutes for us next year
So more than Ben's stats I am going to be more interested in our FO and how they intend to utilize Ben.
If we see that the game plan is for him to space the floor and utilize screens while being a third option, I will be watching as to how he handles that role. If the plan is to try And make him a more focal part of the offense I will also be watching to see if there can be success there.
So at this point unless something terrible happens I don't see his stats as something for cause for concern next year. What would be more concerning would be to see the FO unsuccessfully try to force Ben into a situation he isn't capable of.
My gut tells me that he will be inconsistent all year long, and at the moment would have to make tremendous strides to supplant Thornton as the starter. So unless there is an injury I do not expect him to be getting a ton of minutes for us next year
So more than Ben's stats I am going to be more interested in our FO and how they intend to utilize Ben.
If we see that the game plan is for him to space the floor and utilize screens while being a third option, I will be watching as to how he handles that role. If the plan is to try And make him a more focal part of the offense I will also be watching to see if there can be success there.
So at this point unless something terrible happens I don't see his stats as something for cause for concern next year. What would be more concerning would be to see the FO unsuccessfully try to force Ben into a situation he isn't capable of.
He said 3.6 reb not 8. ".08" was referring to less than a assist per game.
Anyways, my expectations for Ben changed and were substantially raised once Reke was traded. The FO's room for error regarding Ben also shrunk dramatically. But since that's beating a dead horse, I regress.
I "expect" Ben to start. We drafted him at 7, traded Reke and we're rebuilding.. HE BETTER START. Stick him in the fire. I believe he begins the 1st half of the season struggling a bit and is around 10ppg, 2reb and 1ast a game. However, with natural progression and development, I can see those numbers being raised to 13-3-3 by the end of the year.
Anyways, my expectations for Ben changed and were substantially raised once Reke was traded. The FO's room for error regarding Ben also shrunk dramatically. But since that's beating a dead horse, I regress.
I "expect" Ben to start. We drafted him at 7, traded Reke and we're rebuilding.. HE BETTER START. Stick him in the fire. I believe he begins the 1st half of the season struggling a bit and is around 10ppg, 2reb and 1ast a game. However, with natural progression and development, I can see those numbers being raised to 13-3-3 by the end of the year.
uh...yeah. He would be a HOFer. That's 21ppg on 45% shooting in 36 min per. That's a better rookie pace than Reke, Curry, Rose, Wall, Mayo, Lillard, Melo, Durant or LeBron. And its clearly not happening. With his skillset if he can just get into double figures it will be good. And there is a huge additional problem nobody is talking about: he and Thornton can't play together. They are both 6'4" pure SGs. Too small for SF, with no handles or instincts for PG. So that means they are going to be almost a straight platoon at SG splitting 48min between them. And if as people say we now intentionally put ourselves in the position to rely on Thornton as our #2 option, he's going to get big minutes. Its not impossible Mac could be looking at 16-18 min a night.
But back to Thornton! Malone is very familiar with Thornton, so I'm sure he already has his mind made up as to where Thornton fits short term, and long term. There's no mystery with Thornton. What you see is what you get. A player that try's hard on defense, but isn't capable, at least on his own, man to man, of making much of an impact. How successfully he fits into a team defense system, is unknown to us, but I'm sure Malone knows since he coached him before. My point is, that the difference in playing time could come down to defense, and McLemore is for more equipped athleticly to be a good defender. He defended well at Kansas, and by no means am I going to equate college and the NBA, but with his athleticism, and, the fact that Thornton is 6'4" with a 6'6" wingspan, and McLemore is 6'5" and with a 6'8" wingspan, that could be what determines playing time.
Also, and I know you don't want to hear this, but, and maybe it was just summer league, they had McLemore playing SF at times. Hopefully we won't be seeing that during the season. Unless were playing the Washington Generals.
K
I expect a solid rookie campaign, I expect him to have plenty of awful games mixed with quarters where he goes bananas on someone, I guess how his season goes will come down to if Thornton is able to tear up or not. I'm not expecting him to be contending for ROY or even top 5, maybe all rookie 2nd team would be a good goal for him.
I think it will be a mixed bag. In some games he will look great but in some flat out bad! My main concern with Ben is his lack of ball handling which the opponents will focus on and pounce in similar manner that they do with Jimmer.
His movement off the ball is very good and his shot is text book. I think he will be a bit of a disappointment in his rookie year but will go on to become a pretty good player by year 3. He will never be someone that creates for his team mates or himself but he can be effective scorer off screens and spot up shots. Probably around 10ppg in 20-25 minutes.
His movement off the ball is very good and his shot is text book. I think he will be a bit of a disappointment in his rookie year but will go on to become a pretty good player by year 3. He will never be someone that creates for his team mates or himself but he can be effective scorer off screens and spot up shots. Probably around 10ppg in 20-25 minutes.
I agree with the percentages, although I wouldn't be surprised if his minutes on average were less than 20 per game. Something else to take a look at would be turnovers, which could be the most important stat for him. I'd be looking at TOs because for him as a rookie it's not just how much he helps the team, but how much he hurts the team. If he can play intelligently enough to not hurt the team he can be successful in his rookie year.
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If Thornton is still on the team when the season begins Ben M most likely will be the second guard off the bench. IT will come in for Vasquez and Ben will come in for Thornton. If it plays out that way Ben will defend, rebound and shoot the ball like a conventional 2 guard. I suspect his shots will come off of screens and back door cuts. He has a move to either side off the dribble from the 3 point line. He fakes his guy then steps back and shoots the 3. I suspect we will see that a bunch at the end of quarters. Good NBA defenders are going to stay close to him. His move to counter is going to be to dribble a couple steps forward and shoot the 2 point pull up jumper. I agree he is not ready to drive to the hoop on NBA defenders on a regular basis.
If Thornton is traded Ben will start. I suspect his numbers would be around 15 points on .46 % shooting and .36 % from the 3 per 36 minutes. Some nights better, some nights worse.
Ben is a rookie so all the defensive dog defenders will test him. The Tony Allen's of the league are going to foul the heck out of him. Ben will have his share of turnovers and he will have his share of big 3 point shots.
I'm hoping Malone will scheme plays to repeatedly screen those defenders off of Bigs like Mozgov and Aldrich. That should help Ben.
Can't wait for the season!
KB
If Thornton is traded Ben will start. I suspect his numbers would be around 15 points on .46 % shooting and .36 % from the 3 per 36 minutes. Some nights better, some nights worse.
Ben is a rookie so all the defensive dog defenders will test him. The Tony Allen's of the league are going to foul the heck out of him. Ben will have his share of turnovers and he will have his share of big 3 point shots.
I'm hoping Malone will scheme plays to repeatedly screen those defenders off of Bigs like Mozgov and Aldrich. That should help Ben.
Can't wait for the season!
KB
This rookie class could be the one that lets a second rounder get rookie of the year. There are almost no guaranteed starters and very few that will be consistent rotational players. There are so few good players in this year's class that all MacLemore would have to do is get 26 minutes and he will be the front runner.
Hell, McCallum could get the award if he gets significant playtime.
Hell, McCallum could get the award if he gets significant playtime.
Ideally McLemore will back up Thornton to start the year and become more and more consistent with his shot selection, his defensive awareness and hopefully improve his ballhandling somewhat. The perfect situation would involve Thornton having a great season with McLemore coming on strong to where the Kings could deal Marcus at the trade deadline for a shotblocking PF or an upgrade at SF or even PG depending on how Vasquez plays. The Bucks need shooting/scoring and Henson and Sanders don't play well together. Maybe Thornton for Henson? Then some ending contracts (some combination of Patterson, Fredette, Salmons) to address the other need.
If it comes to pass that McLemore is starting down the stretch then I'd guess he'd put up around 14 ppg in 31 minutes with 4.5 rebounds, 1.8 assists and 1 steal shooting around 43% from the field and 37% from three. Those would be solid rookie numbers IMO, though obviously his averages for the year would be significantly less due to playing the majority of the season as a reserve.
If it comes to pass that McLemore is starting down the stretch then I'd guess he'd put up around 14 ppg in 31 minutes with 4.5 rebounds, 1.8 assists and 1 steal shooting around 43% from the field and 37% from three. Those would be solid rookie numbers IMO, though obviously his averages for the year would be significantly less due to playing the majority of the season as a reserve.
Reggie was the 11th pick in the 1987 draft, a draft headlined by David Robiinson. Others, like Dennis Hopson were taken ahead of him, including Kenny Smith, taken by the Kings in that draft. He had an average rookie year for an 11th pick.
Reggie Miller: 22 years old, 22.4 MPG, 10.0 PPG, 48.8% FGP, 35.5% 3PP, 2.3 RPG, 1.6 APG, 1.2 TO's, 0.6 SPG
What stood out to me was his overall shooting percentage, which is above average for a guard in his first year that actually puts up a significant amount of shots.
Reggie Miller: 22 years old, 22.4 MPG, 10.0 PPG, 48.8% FGP, 35.5% 3PP, 2.3 RPG, 1.6 APG, 1.2 TO's, 0.6 SPG
What stood out to me was his overall shooting percentage, which is above average for a guard in his first year that actually puts up a significant amount of shots.
I don't disagree with your prediction. I also think it will be somewhat of a mixed bag. But I'd never say never with a young player. Never is a long time, and we'd still be thinking the earth is flat, if people didn't accomplish what others thought they couldn't. As far as ballhandling goes, I agree its his biggest liability, but his opponents won't have nearly as many chances to pounce as they did with Jimmer, since he won't be the primary ballhandler, and will be playing more without the ball than with it.
Turnovers could be a big problem for him. We'll see! I watched carefully in summer league, and most of his turnovers are attributed to poor decisions and ballhandling combined with poor decisions. Very few came from making poor passes. I thought at first that it was strange that he couldn't buy an assist anywhere, since he was a pretty good passer in college. But when you take a look at McCallum's assists, maybe it had more to do with his teammates lack of scoring ability than anything else.
I don't know how much you watched of summer league, but McLemore is outstanding at moving without the ball. If anything, its one of his strengths. Defensively, he certainly puts in the effort, but has a lot to learn about playing defense in the NBA. Turnovers could be a problem. Especially early in the season.
Bajaden,
I have only seen the first 2 games. He looked lost on offense and was closely defended. I am glad to hear you observe his movement without the ball because I think that will be really important in his offensive development. He is definitely an athlete and it will take time to use all that talent.
I have only seen the first 2 games. He looked lost on offense and was closely defended. I am glad to hear you observe his movement without the ball because I think that will be really important in his offensive development. He is definitely an athlete and it will take time to use all that talent.
Half a dozen turnovers for MacLemore came from entry passes to bigs with stone hands. Another half-dozen were fumbled attempts at fast breaks and drives. The first part will improve working with our bigs (who generally can catch a pass). The second part will take training and coaching to improve on.
I think he's a pretty good passer now. It's like you suggest - he just didn't play with any finishers.
What gives me some confidence about McLemore over the next couple of years is I have the sense that this coaching staff/FO is going to have a detailed "plan" on his development as a player, a plan that will involve regular monitoring of progress or lack thereof, and one that will hold him accountable. I never sensed that with the previous org; it just seemed much more laid back and haphazard in player development. Hopefully, I won't be dissapointed in this regard.
What gives me some confidence about McLemore over the next couple of years is I have the sense that this coaching staff/FO is going to have a detailed "plan" on his development as a player, a plan that will involve regular monitoring of progress or lack thereof, and one that will hold him accountable. I never sensed that with the previous org; it just seemed much more laid back and haphazard in player development. Hopefully, I won't be dissapointed in this regard.
I'm in the minority, but I think he will start. He's fits well with Vazquez and Cousins where he doesn't have to do much but get open and crash the boards on offense. He's a decent swing passer and doesn't stall the offense, he also is willing and a decent entry passer to the post, especially after coming off a screen.
Kings will need Thorton to lead the bench and can come in early if Ben is struggling. Thorton will get most of the SG minutes early.
I agree with Baja and think 37% from 3 would be a great target for him in season 1.
Kings will need Thorton to lead the bench and can come in early if Ben is struggling. Thorton will get most of the SG minutes early.
I agree with Baja and think 37% from 3 would be a great target for him in season 1.