McLemore, what are your expectations?

It is interesting as I do not know if I will be watching Ben, per say.

My gut tells me that he will be inconsistent all year long, and at the moment would have to make tremendous strides to supplant Thornton as the starter. So unless there is an injury I do not expect him to be getting a ton of minutes for us next year

So more than Ben's stats I am going to be more interested in our FO and how they intend to utilize Ben.

If we see that the game plan is for him to space the floor and utilize screens while being a third option, I will be watching as to how he handles that role. If the plan is to try And make him a more focal part of the offense I will also be watching to see if there can be success there.

So at this point unless something terrible happens I don't see his stats as something for cause for concern next year. What would be more concerning would be to see the FO unsuccessfully try to force Ben into a situation he isn't capable of.
 
gunks said:
Bonzi Wells-esque rebounding numbers for a SG. Would be rad, but I dont think our 6' 5 rookie is going to average almost 8 boards per 32. Would love to eat crow on this one though, rebounding could definitely be a strong area for McLemore.



Anyways.... I believe Ben's #'s will fall somewhere between rookie Jimmer and rookie Tyreke. Probably more towards the Jimmer end of the spectrum.
Click to expand...

He said 3.6 reb not 8. ".08" was referring to less than a assist per game.

Anyways, my expectations for Ben changed and were substantially raised once Reke was traded. The FO's room for error regarding Ben also shrunk dramatically. But since that's beating a dead horse, I regress.

I "expect" Ben to start. We drafted him at 7, traded Reke and we're rebuilding.. HE BETTER START. Stick him in the fire. I believe he begins the 1st half of the season struggling a bit and is around 10ppg, 2reb and 1ast a game. However, with natural progression and development, I can see those numbers being raised to 13-3-3 by the end of the year.
 
Bricklayer said:
:eek:

uh...yeah. He would be a HOFer. That's 21ppg on 45% shooting in 36 min per. That's a better rookie pace than Reke, Curry, Rose, Wall, Mayo, Lillard, Melo, Durant or LeBron. And its clearly not happening. With his skillset if he can just get into double figures it will be good. And there is a huge additional problem nobody is talking about: he and Thornton can't play together. They are both 6'4" pure SGs. Too small for SF, with no handles or instincts for PG. So that means they are going to be almost a straight platoon at SG splitting 48min between them. And if as people say we now intentionally put ourselves in the position to rely on Thornton as our #2 option, he's going to get big minutes. Its not impossible Mac could be looking at 16-18 min a night.
Click to expand...

You could be right! Actually, I'd be thrilled if he could put up those numbers. I had to throw out a figure, a measuring stick of sorts, so why not be optimistic, since were dealing in the abstract. The split time with Thornton is an interesting aspect. My suspicions are that first, the Kings want McLemore to succeed, and they'll do everything possible to make that happen. He's their first pick of the new era, so I'm sure they're looking for a positive image they can project. Of course he has to do his part, and having seen it first hand, he's capable of exploding and putting up a lot of points in a hurry. The 64 dollar question is, which McLemore will we see more often? I won't venture a guess, but he has the ability to be very very good. Which of course is meaningless until it happens.

But back to Thornton! Malone is very familiar with Thornton, so I'm sure he already has his mind made up as to where Thornton fits short term, and long term. There's no mystery with Thornton. What you see is what you get. A player that try's hard on defense, but isn't capable, at least on his own, man to man, of making much of an impact. How successfully he fits into a team defense system, is unknown to us, but I'm sure Malone knows since he coached him before. My point is, that the difference in playing time could come down to defense, and McLemore is for more equipped athleticly to be a good defender. He defended well at Kansas, and by no means am I going to equate college and the NBA, but with his athleticism, and, the fact that Thornton is 6'4" with a 6'6" wingspan, and McLemore is 6'5" and with a 6'8" wingspan, that could be what determines playing time.

Also, and I know you don't want to hear this, but, and maybe it was just summer league, they had McLemore playing SF at times. Hopefully we won't be seeing that during the season. Unless were playing the Washington Generals.
 
playing 26 minutes per game :

11.5 points, 3.2 reb, 1.4 ast, 0.7 stl, 0.5 blk 1.8 TO - shooting 45% from the field, 38% from 3pt, 82% from FT
 
Last edited:
kingsnation said:
He said 3.6 reb not 8. ".08" was referring to less than a assist per game.

Anyways, my expectations for Ben changed and were substantially raised once Reke was traded. The FO's room for error regarding Ben also shrunk dramatically. But since that's beating a dead horse, I regress.

I "expect" Ben to start. We drafted him at 7, traded Reke and we're rebuilding.. HE BETTER START. Stick him in the fire. I believe he begins the 1st half of the season struggling a bit and is around 10ppg, 2reb and 1ast a game. However, with natural progression and development, I can see those numbers being raised to 13-3-3 by the end of the year.
Click to expand...


3.6 rebounds in 16 mins per comes out at 8 rebounds per 36, which is the point he made. It's extremely unlikely he'll rebound at that rate, but it'd obviously be a huge bonus if he could.
 
I expect a solid rookie campaign, I expect him to have plenty of awful games mixed with quarters where he goes bananas on someone, I guess how his season goes will come down to if Thornton is able to tear up or not. I'm not expecting him to be contending for ROY or even top 5, maybe all rookie 2nd team would be a good goal for him.
 
I think it will be a mixed bag. In some games he will look great but in some flat out bad! My main concern with Ben is his lack of ball handling which the opponents will focus on and pounce in similar manner that they do with Jimmer.

His movement off the ball is very good and his shot is text book. I think he will be a bit of a disappointment in his rookie year but will go on to become a pretty good player by year 3. He will never be someone that creates for his team mates or himself but he can be effective scorer off screens and spot up shots. Probably around 10ppg in 20-25 minutes.
 
bajaden said:
I thought I'd ask, because I'm sure every one of you has his own expectations of McLemore. It appears that the Kings expectations are pretty high. At least in the long term. But how about the short term? What do you expect him to accomplish this season as a 19 year old after one year of college? And are your expectations fair? So before you answer, I thought I'd give you some food for thought. I won't belabor you with his pluses and minuses. We all know what they are. I thought I'd give you some comparisons instead. He's most often compared to Ray Allen, and I'm sure some of you scoff at that. And perhaps your right! Its probably unfair to him! But just for the heck of it, lets look at Allen's first year in the NBA.

Ran Allen: 21 years old, 30.8 MPG, 13.4 PPG, 43.0% FGP, 39.3% 3PP, 4.0 RPG, 2.6 APG, 1.8 TO's, 0.9 SPG.

Hmmm! Doesn't blow my socks off! Very reasonable numbers to match! Would you be happy with those numbers for McLemore, considering that Allen was 21 years old and McLemore is 19 with much less college experience?

How about Kobe Bryant? Lets look at Kobe's first two years since he was 18 when he was drafted.

Kobe Bryant: 18 years old, 15.5 MPG, 7.6 PPG, 41.7% FGP, 37.5% 3PP, 1.9 RPG, 1.3 APG, 1.5 TO's, 0.6 SPG
19 years old, 26.0 MPG, 15.4 PPG, 42.8% FGP, 34.1% 3PP, 3.1 RPG, 2.5 APG, 1.9 TO's, 0.9 SPG

Once again, numbers that McLemore can probably match. Would that be acceptable? How about someone more recent like James Harden.

James Harden: 19 years old, 22.8 MPG, 9.9 PPG, 40.3% FGP, 37.5% 3PP, 3.2 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.3 TO's, 1.0 SPG

Hell, I'll eat the phone book if he can't match those numbers! Lets go with someone that was also a great athlete coming out of college. Dwyane Wade.

Dwyane Wade: 22 years old, 34.8 MPG, 16.2 PPG, 46.5% FGP, 30.2% 3PP, 4.0 RPG, 4.5 APG, 3.2 TO's, 1.4 SPG.

Now except for the poor 3PP stat, those are very good numbers for a first year in the NBA. Of course I do think we have to take into consideration, that Wade had 4 years of college and was 22 years old. I would think that if McLemore could match some of those numbers, such as PPG, and perhaps rebounds, and shoot a higher 3PP, everyone would be estactic. No?

I could show you others. Steve Nash was downright terrible his first year, and Nowitzki was almost run out of town. There are the exceptions of course, like Lebron and Durant, both of whom were 19 years old, and played 35 or more minutes a game, and put up 20 PPG. Of course both Durant and Lebron shot very poorly from beyond the arc, with neither of them breaking the 30% barrier. My point is, that there's perception and there's reality. Very few players come out of college and become instant stars. For most it takes a couple of years, and in some cases, like Nash, it took 4 years. The team your on, the coaching staff, and the players your surrounded by, all make a difference.

So I'm interested in your opinions. Personally, if he can play 24 MPG, and put up 14 PPG, while shooting close to 45% overall and 37 % from the three, while grabbing 4 boards a game, I'll say he's had a successful rookie year. What do you think?
Click to expand...

I agree with the percentages, although I wouldn't be surprised if his minutes on average were less than 20 per game. Something else to take a look at would be turnovers, which could be the most important stat for him. I'd be looking at TOs because for him as a rookie it's not just how much he helps the team, but how much he hurts the team. If he can play intelligently enough to not hurt the team he can be successful in his rookie year.
 
Last edited:
If Thornton is still on the team when the season begins Ben M most likely will be the second guard off the bench. IT will come in for Vasquez and Ben will come in for Thornton. If it plays out that way Ben will defend, rebound and shoot the ball like a conventional 2 guard. I suspect his shots will come off of screens and back door cuts. He has a move to either side off the dribble from the 3 point line. He fakes his guy then steps back and shoots the 3. I suspect we will see that a bunch at the end of quarters. Good NBA defenders are going to stay close to him. His move to counter is going to be to dribble a couple steps forward and shoot the 2 point pull up jumper. I agree he is not ready to drive to the hoop on NBA defenders on a regular basis.

If Thornton is traded Ben will start. I suspect his numbers would be around 15 points on .46 % shooting and .36 % from the 3 per 36 minutes. Some nights better, some nights worse.

Ben is a rookie so all the defensive dog defenders will test him. The Tony Allen's of the league are going to foul the heck out of him. Ben will have his share of turnovers and he will have his share of big 3 point shots.

I'm hoping Malone will scheme plays to repeatedly screen those defenders off of Bigs like Mozgov and Aldrich. That should help Ben.

Can't wait for the season!

KB
 
andremiller07 said:
I expect a solid rookie campaign, I expect him to have plenty of awful games mixed with quarters where he goes bananas on someone, I guess how his season goes will come down to if Thornton is able to tear up or not. I'm not expecting him to be contending for ROY or even top 5, maybe all rookie 2nd team would be a good goal for him.
Click to expand...

This rookie class could be the one that lets a second rounder get rookie of the year. There are almost no guaranteed starters and very few that will be consistent rotational players. There are so few good players in this year's class that all MacLemore would have to do is get 26 minutes and he will be the front runner.

Hell, McCallum could get the award if he gets significant playtime.
 
Not expecting much year one... maybe 10ppg on low 40% shooting in about 22-24 mpg. Shooting guards like McLemore generally have uninspiring rookie and even 2nd seasons... year three is when he should really start hitting his stride.
 
I expect him to come off the bench behind MT and probably get 15-20mpg and maybe score 7ppg 3rpg 1apg on 38% shooting 35%3pt.

That's my expectation.
 
McLemore expectations. Conditioning, hard work, coaching emphasis on the basics, team play. I expect him to work hard, off the bench first, playing lots of minutes, and then starting. I expect he won't disappoint any reasonable hopes for his performance and stats. Detail? I don't get into that.
 
Ideally McLemore will back up Thornton to start the year and become more and more consistent with his shot selection, his defensive awareness and hopefully improve his ballhandling somewhat. The perfect situation would involve Thornton having a great season with McLemore coming on strong to where the Kings could deal Marcus at the trade deadline for a shotblocking PF or an upgrade at SF or even PG depending on how Vasquez plays. The Bucks need shooting/scoring and Henson and Sanders don't play well together. Maybe Thornton for Henson? Then some ending contracts (some combination of Patterson, Fredette, Salmons) to address the other need.

If it comes to pass that McLemore is starting down the stretch then I'd guess he'd put up around 14 ppg in 31 minutes with 4.5 rebounds, 1.8 assists and 1 steal shooting around 43% from the field and 37% from three. Those would be solid rookie numbers IMO, though obviously his averages for the year would be significantly less due to playing the majority of the season as a reserve.
 
Hadlowe said:
Reggie didn't start out that way though. If I remember right, his rookie campaign started relatively rough, and evened out toward the end. The Pacers were pretty bad that year and Reggie was the 2nd option after Chuck Person. Reggie also played four years at UCLA, and had NIT championship experience (back when that wasn't just a consolation prize).

If McLemore can shoot 37.5% from three, play tough man defense, and learn good shot selection this year I will consider it a successful year. Post all-star break is when I will start counting on his offensive development. If he can make 42% of his takes post all-star, He will be on track offensively. Defensively, he is already an upgrade over Thornton, so smart offense is what will give him the inside track at the starting job.
Click to expand...

Reggie was the 11th pick in the 1987 draft, a draft headlined by David Robiinson. Others, like Dennis Hopson were taken ahead of him, including Kenny Smith, taken by the Kings in that draft. He had an average rookie year for an 11th pick.

Reggie Miller: 22 years old, 22.4 MPG, 10.0 PPG, 48.8% FGP, 35.5% 3PP, 2.3 RPG, 1.6 APG, 1.2 TO's, 0.6 SPG

What stood out to me was his overall shooting percentage, which is above average for a guard in his first year that actually puts up a significant amount of shots.
 
Čarolija said:
I think it will be a mixed bag. In some games he will look great but in some flat out bad! My main concern with Ben is his lack of ball handling which the opponents will focus on and pounce in similar manner that they do with Jimmer.

His movement off the ball is very good and his shot is text book. I think he will be a bit of a disappointment in his rookie year but will go on to become a pretty good player by year 3. He will never be someone that creates for his team mates or himself but he can be effective scorer off screens and spot up shots. Probably around 10ppg in 20-25 minutes.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with your prediction. I also think it will be somewhat of a mixed bag. But I'd never say never with a young player. Never is a long time, and we'd still be thinking the earth is flat, if people didn't accomplish what others thought they couldn't. As far as ballhandling goes, I agree its his biggest liability, but his opponents won't have nearly as many chances to pounce as they did with Jimmer, since he won't be the primary ballhandler, and will be playing more without the ball than with it.
 
Kingster said:
I agree with the percentages, although I wouldn't be surprised if his minutes on average were less than 20 per game. Something else to take a look at would be turnovers, which could be the most important stat for him. I'd be looking at TOs because for him as a rookie it's not just how much he helps the team, but how much he hurts the team. If he can play intelligently enough to not hurt the team he can be successful in his rookie year.
Click to expand...

Turnovers could be a big problem for him. We'll see! I watched carefully in summer league, and most of his turnovers are attributed to poor decisions and ballhandling combined with poor decisions. Very few came from making poor passes. I thought at first that it was strange that he couldn't buy an assist anywhere, since he was a pretty good passer in college. But when you take a look at McCallum's assists, maybe it had more to do with his teammates lack of scoring ability than anything else.
 
ppine said:
I would be happy if he can learn to move without the ball, minimize turnovers and play defense.
Click to expand...

I don't know how much you watched of summer league, but McLemore is outstanding at moving without the ball. If anything, its one of his strengths. Defensively, he certainly puts in the effort, but has a lot to learn about playing defense in the NBA. Turnovers could be a problem. Especially early in the season.
 
Bajaden,
I have only seen the first 2 games. He looked lost on offense and was closely defended. I am glad to hear you observe his movement without the ball because I think that will be really important in his offensive development. He is definitely an athlete and it will take time to use all that talent.
 
bajaden said:
Turnovers could be a big problem for him. We'll see! I watched carefully in summer league, and most of his turnovers are attributed to poor decisions and ballhandling combined with poor decisions. Very few came from making poor passes. I thought at first that it was strange that he couldn't buy an assist anywhere, since he was a pretty good passer in college. But when you take a look at McCallum's assists, maybe it had more to do with his teammates lack of scoring ability than anything else.
Click to expand...

Half a dozen turnovers for MacLemore came from entry passes to bigs with stone hands. Another half-dozen were fumbled attempts at fast breaks and drives. The first part will improve working with our bigs (who generally can catch a pass). The second part will take training and coaching to improve on.
 
expectations before summer league: a ready to start phenom that makes losing Tyreke an afterthought.

expectations after summer league: Quincy Douby

:o
 
bajaden said:
Turnovers could be a big problem for him. We'll see! I watched carefully in summer league, and most of his turnovers are attributed to poor decisions and ballhandling combined with poor decisions. Very few came from making poor passes. I thought at first that it was strange that he couldn't buy an assist anywhere, since he was a pretty good passer in college. But when you take a look at McCallum's assists, maybe it had more to do with his teammates lack of scoring ability than anything else.
Click to expand...

I think he's a pretty good passer now. It's like you suggest - he just didn't play with any finishers.

What gives me some confidence about McLemore over the next couple of years is I have the sense that this coaching staff/FO is going to have a detailed "plan" on his development as a player, a plan that will involve regular monitoring of progress or lack thereof, and one that will hold him accountable. I never sensed that with the previous org; it just seemed much more laid back and haphazard in player development. Hopefully, I won't be dissapointed in this regard.
 
Kingster said:
I think he's a pretty good passer now. It's like you suggest - he just didn't play with any finishers.

What gives me some confidence about McLemore over the next couple of years is I have the sense that this coaching staff/FO is going to have a detailed "plan" on his development as a player, a plan that will involve regular monitoring of progress or lack thereof, and one that will hold him accountable. I never sensed that with the previous org; it just seemed much more laid back and haphazard in player development. Hopefully, I won't be dissapointed in this regard.
Click to expand...

that seems like a massive understatement to me...

;)

it's hard to imagine the new regime dropping the ball on player development as colossally as the previous regime did. and that's saying something, considering the major players involved in the new regime are all rookies at their current positions...
 
bajaden said:
Turnovers could be a big problem for him. We'll see! I watched carefully in summer league, and most of his turnovers are attributed to poor decisions and ballhandling combined with poor decisions. Very few came from making poor passes. I thought at first that it was strange that he couldn't buy an assist anywhere, since he was a pretty good passer in college. But when you take a look at McCallum's assists, maybe it had more to do with his teammates lack of scoring ability than anything else.
Click to expand...

Speaking about his assists, I thought it was unfair the announcers and everyone was making a big deal about that. They refused to mention the wide open passes our big men dropped on fast breaks that hit their hands. Cousins won't drop those passes.
 
I'm in the minority, but I think he will start. He's fits well with Vazquez and Cousins where he doesn't have to do much but get open and crash the boards on offense. He's a decent swing passer and doesn't stall the offense, he also is willing and a decent entry passer to the post, especially after coming off a screen.

Kings will need Thorton to lead the bench and can come in early if Ben is struggling. Thorton will get most of the SG minutes early.

I agree with Baja and think 37% from 3 would be a great target for him in season 1.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

bajaden
Bajaden's real 2024 Mock Draft: Part one
2 3
Replies
63
Views
7K
KingsFanSince85
KingsFanSince85
Noble
Mock offseason 1.0
Replies
6
Views
1K
krylia sovetov
krylia sovetov
bajaden
Bajaden's final 2023 Mock Draft
2 3 4
Replies
92
Views
8K
ockingsfan
ockingsfan
bajaden
Bajaden's final 2022 mock draft: Part one
2
Replies
37
Views
5K
Telemachus
Telemachus
Capt. Factorial
Can we get a quality player in the 2023 draft?
2
Replies
56
Views
5K
206Fan
2
Back
Top