Mbah a Moute-Williams trade? (merged)
- Thread starter EIM86
- Start date
Derrick Williams either isn't a very good player or he's stuck in a spot where he can't play his PF spot, is being misued, and generally in a rut. With both players under contract for one more year ... and Moute a pretty middle of the road talent for a team that's looking to roll the dice on low risk moves while waiting on the 2014 draft this makes a lot of sense.
If it works, it's another player to keep which is a list of 3-4 players right now. This could be a home run.
If not, it's 2 million dollars and 1 or 2 wins to take that shot.
The next few months will be rough. I makes sense to march him out mostly a PF and see what happens. Risk v reward it makes sense.
If it works, it's another player to keep which is a list of 3-4 players right now. This could be a home run.
If not, it's 2 million dollars and 1 or 2 wins to take that shot.
The next few months will be rough. I makes sense to march him out mostly a PF and see what happens. Risk v reward it makes sense.
Not sure who is disagreeing with that. I personally don't like the trade because of what Luc brings to the table vs what Williams has shown. This isn't a hugely valuable piece. It's a guy who has done next to nothing in 3 years and not only doesn't contribute anything besides potential to the team, he also makes our defense, passing and culture worse.
That's the starting SF for this team ... a host of guys that will be gone in 2-3 years playing on a team that will stuggle no matter what.
With a very good chance the Kings SF going foward could be Parker or Wiggins, not sure they need to pass on Luc for Williams.
I don't view Williams as a SF, and I hope the Kings don't. I hope they plan to sit Patterson next to Thornton and see if Williams can be a top 8 player on a good team.
I view this as roll the dice on Williams and Malone doesn't have to play Patterson any more. They'll figure out SF or make a my garbage for your garbage trade with similar contract SF among the Patterson, Thornton, Hayes group.
It's not like they are breaking up the Dream Team here. We didn't have much of a SF before. We have less now. If Williams plays, they are what 3 games worse for the season? Doesn't that help fix the SF problem going forward?
With a very good chance the Kings SF going foward could be Parker or Wiggins, not sure they need to pass on Luc for Williams.
I don't view Williams as a SF, and I hope the Kings don't. I hope they plan to sit Patterson next to Thornton and see if Williams can be a top 8 player on a good team.
I view this as roll the dice on Williams and Malone doesn't have to play Patterson any more. They'll figure out SF or make a my garbage for your garbage trade with similar contract SF among the Patterson, Thornton, Hayes group.
It's not like they are breaking up the Dream Team here. We didn't have much of a SF before. We have less now. If Williams plays, they are what 3 games worse for the season? Doesn't that help fix the SF problem going forward?
I don't necessarily like the trade either. Looks like a tweener kid who hasn't produced in the NBA in the exact same situation as T-Rob for a guy I was envisioning as a key defensive cog in our coming generation ala D.C. I was referring to some of the posts I saw pre-trade in this thread that mentioned scrub names to acquire Williams
This move is a little bit of a downer, although it was a little silly to think Hayes or MT could turn into DW.
Luc into DW is a good trade for both sides, and the kind of chance bad teams need to take.
I really liked watching Luc play and hope there is someway this trade could end up with the Kings keeping both, but I can't complain too much.
I hope that is a possibility as well, Minn has some young pieces.
Luc into DW is a good trade for both sides, and the kind of chance bad teams need to take.
I really liked watching Luc play and hope there is someway this trade could end up with the Kings keeping both, but I can't complain too much.
I hope that is a possibility as well, Minn has some young pieces.
Dude, you generally don't like much of anything. And I'm not trying to be snide or rude or anything negative. You're just naturally (or at least come across as) a glass half-empty kind of guy.
Give this a chance. I think the whole idea might grow on you. My initial reaction wasn't very good, either, but the longer I think about it, it actually makes sense. Little risk to our long-term goal and considerable upside if Williams can thrive in Sacramento.
Give this a chance. I think the whole idea might grow on you. My initial reaction wasn't very good, either, but the longer I think about it, it actually makes sense. Little risk to our long-term goal and considerable upside if Williams can thrive in Sacramento.
This is what's most troubling to me: there's no question that Adelman has, historically, done better with veteran players. But, in order to feel optimistic about this deal, you have to make yourself believe that he was dealing with the Adelman who didn't play Gerald Wallace, and not the Adelman who got good productivity out of Kyle Lowry, Aaron Brooks, Chase Budinger and Carl Landry. It also makes the mistake of comparing those two situations in a vacuum, and ignoring the reason why Wallace didn't play in Sacramento: he was behind a better player (or, at least, a player who fit the role better) on a championship contender, and Adelman couldn't really afford to spend time developing him.
Let's just hope that the reason he hasn't played isn't, in fact, because he's not any good.
Let's just hope that the reason he hasn't played isn't, in fact, because he's not any good.
Exactly. I love young talent and there are a lot of reasons guys get lost on teams. Williams lost playing time to inferior players because they defended, bought into a system where they ball moved and played with consistent effort. He didn't.
On a team that is trying to change their culture, trading the guy that embodied those characteristics bums me out. Not because Luc was going to make us a champion. But because his presence made us play less like losers.
On a team that is trying to change their culture, trading the guy that embodied those characteristics bums me out. Not because Luc was going to make us a champion. But because his presence made us play less like losers.
Look, I am no Derrick Williams fan. People still give him all this credit for being a #2 pick, but you know what? We just got done playing the Wovles #4 pick, Wesley Johnson. That one they took over Cousins. Maybe we can go find Johhny Flynn, who they took #5 as well. Point being being a #2 pick means nothing for him. Fans, and indeed people in general, often buy into hype, especially fro athletes. Ooh, look he can dunk! Yeah, nifty. In a dunk contest maybe. But tweeners are deadly beasts. Normally to their own teams. This year we're seeing it again with Anthony Bennett. Fact of the matter is that Williams has been dumb, soft, inefficient, and unable to carve out a starting role for a team that would have handed it to him. And the only two reasons fans have kept on going ooh! Derrick Williams! Is because he was the #2 pick. And he can dunk. End analysis.
Now all of that said, ALL of that said, and with it said that there will come a day when Mbah a Moute will be precisely the sort of roleplayer we will want piles of, there is a clear theory to trading him for Derrick Williams. Call it Daryl Morey theory. The same way that Morey was running around the last few years shipping off every asset that wasn't tied to a chair on the theory that you need stars to win,a nd he didn't want to acquire anybody who didn't have at least a chance to be a star, well...here we are. We took a 2nd round pick, turned it into a roleplayer, and turned the roleplayer into a former #2 who was thought to have star potential. So it is what it is. You install him at SF, croiss your fingers. If it doesn't work out, then you lose while claiming to be reaching for the stars, and go draft somebody better.
Now all of that said, ALL of that said, and with it said that there will come a day when Mbah a Moute will be precisely the sort of roleplayer we will want piles of, there is a clear theory to trading him for Derrick Williams. Call it Daryl Morey theory. The same way that Morey was running around the last few years shipping off every asset that wasn't tied to a chair on the theory that you need stars to win,a nd he didn't want to acquire anybody who didn't have at least a chance to be a star, well...here we are. We took a 2nd round pick, turned it into a roleplayer, and turned the roleplayer into a former #2 who was thought to have star potential. So it is what it is. You install him at SF, croiss your fingers. If it doesn't work out, then you lose while claiming to be reaching for the stars, and go draft somebody better.
I think there has to be something to Williams that is not immediately evident by the stats etc. After all, NJ, Utah, and New York were supposedly in pursuit as well, with New York offering a piece they feel is valuable in Shumpert. This is one of those situations as a fan where you have to have trust that the FO knows more than you. Maybe there are implications for this in terms of draft position, cap, Luc's durability in the future, whatever, and that we just don't have a tinkering FO who is going to make a bad situation worse
if the trade goes through I would be a little disappointed just in the fact that MaM has been getting better and is doing great defensively. I guess this might be a trade for potential but I'm really starting to feel bad for Malone and his "change in culture" defensively. He has been talking defense from the start and not getting much help from the front office. ie trading tyreke, not picking up a defensive big, now possibly trading away one of his best defensive players. I guess the struck out on iggy so they have that going for them. but when looking at it as a big picture type trade I can see how we go for a young with potential vs an older injury prone player in MaM.
Great deal in my opinion. Best move PDA has made outside of signing Cousins.
And I love what Luc has done for us, but I don't trust his knees. Like Brick stated, we turned a second rounder into Derrick Williams. Even if Williams IS nothing it was worth the low risk. Luc was never going to be a major piece for us going forward. We actually played this perfectly, intentional or not. I'm not sure this trade goes through if LRMAM wasn't showcased the past 5ish games, proving he could play 30MPG and defend at a high level.
Just last year Williams averaged 12 PPG and 5 Reb in 24 minutes. He's not a lost cause.
Refreshing to see the Kings jump in on one of these low risk high reward type deals. It's something we've consistently missed out on in years past. Finally a GM who isn't lazy and / or asleep.
And I love what Luc has done for us, but I don't trust his knees. Like Brick stated, we turned a second rounder into Derrick Williams. Even if Williams IS nothing it was worth the low risk. Luc was never going to be a major piece for us going forward. We actually played this perfectly, intentional or not. I'm not sure this trade goes through if LRMAM wasn't showcased the past 5ish games, proving he could play 30MPG and defend at a high level.
Just last year Williams averaged 12 PPG and 5 Reb in 24 minutes. He's not a lost cause.
Refreshing to see the Kings jump in on one of these low risk high reward type deals. It's something we've consistently missed out on in years past. Finally a GM who isn't lazy and / or asleep.
Ranking of players I would miss in trade, taking into account contracts.
1. Cuz
...
2. Ben
...
For the right price:
3. IT
4. GV
5-9 pretty interchangeable, would move for a project SF or athletic big:
5. JT
6. Luc
7. Ray
8. Ppat
9. Landry
The other team must be desperate or sending trash:
10. Jimmer
11. Outlaw
12. Salmons
13. MT
14. Hayes
15. N'Diyae
So losing Luc sucks, but it was about the range of players I would say is fair.
1. Cuz
...
2. Ben
...
For the right price:
3. IT
4. GV
5-9 pretty interchangeable, would move for a project SF or athletic big:
5. JT
6. Luc
7. Ray
8. Ppat
9. Landry
The other team must be desperate or sending trash:
10. Jimmer
11. Outlaw
12. Salmons
13. MT
14. Hayes
15. N'Diyae
So losing Luc sucks, but it was about the range of players I would say is fair.
Your points and concerns are totally valid. On the flipside, I can appreciate that we also knew what we had in Prince Luc, who is a great roleplayer who very likely would be on his way out by the time our team became in real need of such a player again (read: in contention for anything of merit).
We're taking a big swing on Williams, but it's a gamble that could pay off handsomely when you consider what we gave up for him in the long run (2nd rounders, as has been discussed ad nauseam).
If he can come in and do all of the things he did when he was such a fantastic prospect in college - shoot the 3 well, attack off of line drives, post up smaller SFs, and defend - he'll be a really solid support type that we've been needing at the 3 spot for a long while.
Luc, while a fantastic defender, didn't offer us such potential. Again, key word is potential. Williams hasn't proven anything yet, but with hope, a change of scenery and a move under a coach who will demonstrate some faith in him (at least for now) will reignite his flame the way so many other Kings have done for us in the past.
We're taking a big swing on Williams, but it's a gamble that could pay off handsomely when you consider what we gave up for him in the long run (2nd rounders, as has been discussed ad nauseam).
If he can come in and do all of the things he did when he was such a fantastic prospect in college - shoot the 3 well, attack off of line drives, post up smaller SFs, and defend - he'll be a really solid support type that we've been needing at the 3 spot for a long while.
Luc, while a fantastic defender, didn't offer us such potential. Again, key word is potential. Williams hasn't proven anything yet, but with hope, a change of scenery and a move under a coach who will demonstrate some faith in him (at least for now) will reignite his flame the way so many other Kings have done for us in the past.
i'm not really sure why we have gotten rid of all of our players capable of playing defense after hiring a Defensive minded coach? Tyreke, Douglas, Aldrich, now Luc. i don't really care for the trade either way, as i know Luc was not a potential star or anything like that, im just kind of confused by it. i will just hold onto hope that this is setting up for more moves in the near future.... maybe Danny Granger?
Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Mbah was already one of my favorite guys to watch. Just so fundamentally sound defensively.
However, this is an absolute win-win for both teams. Mbah instantly improves Minny, a team who's got a chance to make noise in the playoffs. There's no question Williams has loads of untapped potential. He's only 22 years old. He's never gotten a real opportunity to play for Minny. Adelman is famous for not giving young guys a chance over veterans.
And as people have stated, a 2nd round pick for a talent of Williams caliber is pretty damn good. You take that any day of the week. And as valuable as player like Mbah is, he's a guy you want on your team when your team is going to be in the playoffs and needs that extra push. Not for a team who MIGHT be a playoff team in 3 years
However, this is an absolute win-win for both teams. Mbah instantly improves Minny, a team who's got a chance to make noise in the playoffs. There's no question Williams has loads of untapped potential. He's only 22 years old. He's never gotten a real opportunity to play for Minny. Adelman is famous for not giving young guys a chance over veterans.
And as people have stated, a 2nd round pick for a talent of Williams caliber is pretty damn good. You take that any day of the week. And as valuable as player like Mbah is, he's a guy you want on your team when your team is going to be in the playoffs and needs that extra push. Not for a team who MIGHT be a playoff team in 3 years