Mbah a Moute-Williams trade? (merged)

[rainmaker]

There is an awful lot of energy being used to make Williams sound good, misunderstood, or in a bad place.

Yes there is.

If it was just a bad situation with Minn's roster and Adelman's system but others still thought he was a lottery pick level player just waiting for the right system to tap into his talent, a few more of league's 28 other GM's(not counting PDA) would have been knocking on the door wanting to pry him loose from Minn.

I get that people want to be optimistic, but some should possibly ask why 28 other NBA GM's apparently don't feel as optimistic as a number on this board feel. If it's a move to have a worse win/loss record, which it very well might, it's understandable, but would also explain why no one else across the league is excited about Williams' talent. Anyone excited about this from a talent standpoint is in an extreme minority across the league.

My issue with PDA, and it's early so hopefully this changes, but going on what we've seen thus far, shipping out or watching Reke/Aldrich/Douglas/Mbah leave, then bringing in Vasquez/Landry/Williams reeks of turning this team into previous Denver incarnations, an up and down, race horse style team not built for playoff success, while at the same time saying defense is the top priority, which none of these moves coincide with. And I personally hate previous editions of Den/GS which it appears PDA is patterning us after.

But it's early, hopefully that changes. But, that's hope. The only thing concrete we have to go on are the moves we've witnessed, and those moves don't speak to a defensive philosophy. I know some are happy it gives us a better chance of losing and getting a good pick, which I can understand, and part of that is also we only gave up two 2nd rounders for Mbah, but we also only used one 2nd rounder for IT. If we shipped him out for another player like Williams, say Thabeet, a high pick who hasn't tapped into his potential, to improve our chances at a high pick, would the same people be as excited, given we only used a 60th pick on IT? I think not. And therein lies quite a contradiction. If you like this strategy, then why aren't more campaigning to move IT for a similar player since a) it helps us achieve a worse record for draft night and b) we only used a 60th pick on IT?

 

[pshn80]

Yes there is.

If it was just a bad situation with Minn's roster and Adelman's system but others still thought he was a lottery pick level player just waiting for the right system to tap into his talent, a few more of league's 28 other GM's(not counting PDA) would have been knocking on the door wanting to pry him loose from Minn.

I get that people want to be optimistic, but some should possibly ask why 28 other NBA GM's apparently don't feel as optimistic as a number on this board feel. If it's a move to have a worse win/loss record, which it very well might, it's understandable, but would also explain why no one else across the league is excited about Williams' talent. Anyone excited about this from a talent standpoint is in an extreme minority across the league.

My issue with PDA, and it's early so hopefully this changes, but going on what we've seen thus far, shipping out or watching Reke/Aldrich/Douglas/Mbah leave, then bringing in Vasquez/Landry/Williams reeks of turning this team into previous Denver incarnations, an up and down, race horse style team not built for playoff success, while at the same time saying defense is the top priority, which none of these moves coincide with. And I personally hate previous editions of Den/GS which it appears PDA is patterning us after.

But it's early, hopefully that changes. But, that's hope. The only thing concrete we have to go on are the moves we've witnessed, and those moves don't speak to a defensive philosophy. I know some are happy it gives us a better chance of losing and getting a good pick, which I can understand, and part of that is also we only gave up two 2nd rounders for Mbah, but we also only used one 2nd rounder for IT. If we shipped him out for another player like Williams, say Thabeet, a high pick who hasn't tapped into his potential, to improve our chances at a high pick, would the same people be as excited, given we only used a 60th pick on IT? I think not. And therein lies quite a contradiction. If you like this strategy, then why aren't more campaigning to move IT for a similar player since a) it helps us achieve a worse record for draft night and b) we only used a 60th pick on IT?

I agree. Yes, there is.

As for a reason, well it seems quite natural to me. He's our player and we want him to work out, and we didn't pay much for him so it is a high risk low cost transaction. That's about it.

PDA's work so far - OK by me. Come back again 18 months or so and talk about his performance or not. My interest is not to be critical of our coach or GM - they don't have to prove anything to me. I regard myself as a better basketball player than a coach or GM.

I'm going to the game tomorrow against LAC and to see our new guy bust his butt playing basketball. If he doesn't I will be disappointed but I'll start making excuses for him. He has a grace period with me.

 

[sdballer]

And it is logical to think that a guy who didn't fit on one team in just over 2 years won't be able to fit on the other 29 teams either? It's not as if these types of "bad fit" situations don't happen all the time. .

It really doesn't happen that much. In the last 15 years, very few guys picked in the top 10 that struggled the first couple years went on to anything closely resembling top pick level play.

People keep trying to acquire those guys thinking they are going to turn things around but it's extraordinarily rare. Usually if a guy really struggles like Williams has, at best they may end up being a marginal contributor.

 

[Kingsfan23]

As for the w/l prediction, I really don't know. My suspicion is that he'll play as well as he did last season as a starter and becomes our number three scorer. If that happens we're maybe +5 wins, but I think other trades are coming.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with this... If you look at the stint Moute was a starter he was having a competitive, positive impact on the team

 

[bajaden]

Sometimes I think people get so close to something, that they become blind to whats actually happening. If your relating this trade to the present, then your probably not going to like it. I say that without seeing how Williams fits into our lineup. The Assumption is that he can't defend, can't dribble, can't shoot, and in general is just a bust, so why make the deal. Obviously if Kings management felt that way, they wouldn't have made the deal. I summit that D'Alessandro knows more about Williams ability than most of us do. He stated that they have been doing extensive research on Williams for some time now. So obviously, they just think he needs a change of scenery. But at the same time, he made no guarantee's that Williams would succeed. The Kings are simply taking a little risk gamble. So whats the big deal?

We didn't just trade IT, we traded Mbah a Moute, a player that in all likely hood wouldn't be around when the team becomes competitive. Everything the Kings are doing right now is about 2 to 3 years from now, and if you only looking at wins and losses now, then I don't think you understand what their doing. Like D'Allessandro said, not all the moves they make are going to be successful, but they'll keep changing parts until they all fit into their plan. For years everyone bitched about Petrie sitting on his hands. Now everyone is bitching about our GM actually making moves. Williams will either work out or he won't. Its that simple, and it didn't cost much to take the gamble. Yes, we need to get better defensively, but you also have to be able to score. Something we been having trouble doing of late. If you put five great defensive players on the court that aren't effective on the offensive side of the ball, you'll get your head handed to you. You can be proud of holding the other team to 80 points, but unfortunately you only scored 65, so you lose.

Ideally you need two way players. Unfortunately, their hard to find, or acquire. Lebron springs to mind. Lacking that, you need to come as close to that as you can, and throw in one very good defensive player and have very good team defense. And, its much easier to play good team defense if you have above average athlete's. In that regard, Williams may help. We'll see..

 

[Cold]

The thing wid williams is not primarily the system or roster fit. Its him. He needs to figure himself out. Believe me I watch a lot of minny games. He plays like a knucklehead and makes the same mistakes over and over. He took himself off the floor. Keep ur expectations low becuz there will be a lot of cringe worthy moments.

 

[Glenn]

I posted the question as to his impact on this year's w/l record to see if he gives us a better chance at getting a high pick. I left the question vague so as not to influence the opinions. If anyone assumes some intent of that question, it's on them. The ideal situation is that he shows promise but costs us wins this year and evolves into a good player years down the road. I think our w/l record this year is very important and hopefully the day will come when the pick up of Williams is considered insignificant compared to who we got in the draft.

 

[Cold]

Yeah hes not going to suddenly turn into a good player this year. Has a way to go. Hes as big a project now as he was his rookie year. Maybe even more so as rookie dw had more confidence. He looks unsure out there.

 

[Uncia03]

The best thing that PDA did during the off-season was acquiring a defensive-first great role-player in Luc for cheap.
However this team simply is lacking in both talents and assets.
Regardless of whether or not Williams pans out, I think this new move has been his best move as the GM thus far. Williams at this point is no-risk/high reward and PDA knows that we have to attempt to acquire talent in any way possible and if it means taking a calculated gamble, I'm all for it.

I would not at all been in favor of getting other top potential 'bust' players such as Beasley (Drug-addled/lack of character) or Thabeet (Lack of skill) but I am in favor of Williams simply because I believe that there is talent there and that he will have a chance to prove if that's the case considering where this team currently is.
We don't want to squander Cousins' time here which means that we need to surround him with talent as quickly as possible.
If Williams can get close to what he showed while in college then he's going to help the cause more than what Luc might have brought us.
And if Williams completely busts out, it will mean few wins which also doesn't hurt us this season.

 

[Glenn]

Williams will make $6.3 mil next year which makes him the 4th highest salary on the Kings if we don't retain Salmons and of course dependent on what else we do with other players. I didn't realize he made so much. Wacky Minnesota extended his contract which borders on the hilarious considering they couldn't find a place for him on the court.

 

[The_Jamal]

I posted the question as to his impact on this year's w/l record to see if he gives us a better chance at getting a high pick. I left the question vague so as not to influence the opinions. If anyone assumes some intent of that question, it's on them. The ideal situation is that he shows promise but costs us wins this year and evolves into a good player years down the road. I think our w/l record this year is very important and hopefully the day will come when the pick up of Williams is considered insignificant compared to who we got in the draft.

I think Williams can be a huge pick-up for us. If he ends up playing up to some of his potential, we all of a sudden don't have to have a top 3 pick and pray for Parker or Wiggins. In a sense, it would open up our options for the draft and open up the pool for someone like Exum, Embiid, or Smart.

For that reasoning alone, I think that's what makes this deal a win for us. Mbah, while a great role player, isn't going to get any better than he is now. Most likely worse with his injury concerns. Williams, in my estimation, still has the "what if" factor going for him.

 

[Hoovtrain]

I guess I just do not get this trade. I understand being enticed with Williams potential and the concerns over Luc's knees. But...they finally had a guy that really understands his role, doesn't play outside of his means and is the best/most versatile defender they have. Now they once again have a void at SF because I am not convinced Williams can play it. Just seems to go against Malone and the FO's mantra.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... Thank goodness we will see him play and put to rest all this excuse making...

Are you new here?

 

[bloom]

I like this trade. I can't wait to see Williams play. It's a low risk high reward type of trade...The big key here is can Williams tap into his potential and be a good part of this team. Can't wait to find out.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Williams will make $6.3 mil next year which makes him the 4th highest salary on the Kings if we don't retain Salmons and of course dependent on what else we do with other players. I didn't realize he made so much. Wacky Minnesota extended his contract which borders on the hilarious considering they couldn't find a place for him on the court.

Well, they didn't technically extend him, they picked up the fourth-year option on his rookie deal. But that was smart in my opinion. They wanted to trade him, and I think he's actually somewhat more attractive with that extra year than without, because it gives the team that traded for him (in this case, us) the ability to make him a restricted free agent in the event that he works out. Teams weren't going to be trading for Williams if they didn't have hopes of unleashing the star potential in him, so finishing out the rookie contract was probably a good move even though they didn't want to keep him.