Massacre in Norway

Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
Can't believe this isn't being discussed here. Maybe coverage isn't as big in the US?

Absolutely unbelievable that someone could do this. Shot and killed 84 people in a youth camp, most being teenagers, and killed a further 7 in the bombing. How is it possible? What must be going through someones mind to carry out such an atrocity? It's very difficult to fathom how or why someone would even contemplate such actions.


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/07/23/norway.camp.youth/index.html?hpt=T1
 
Yet it happens all the time. I suspect it isn't being discussed as the topic can cross over into areas that would create animosity. Just check the internet chatter about it and you will see what I mean.
 
Glenn said:
Yet it happens all the time. I suspect it isn't being discussed as the topic can cross over into areas that would create animosity. Just check the internet chatter about it and you will see what I mean.
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It doesn't happen all the time to this degree. Certainly never by just one person (which it looks like at this point, although isn't certain). There's a 1500 page document written by the guy who did it available on the internet. It's very chilling - he was clearly a very intelligent person and had planned it meticulously. What scum.

Realise it can get political, but there's no need to bring politics into this. There is no way any of this can be justified so it's irrelevant.
 
Dime Dropper said:
Can't believe this isn't being discussed here. Maybe coverage isn't as big in the US?

Absolutely unbelievable that someone could do this. Shot and killed 84 people in a youth camp, most being teenagers, and killed a further 7 in the bombing. How is it possible? What must be going through someones mind to carry out such an atrocity? It's very difficult to fathom how or why someone would even contemplate such actions.


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/07/23/norway.camp.youth/index.html?hpt=T1
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Well do they have a motive yet? Speculation was that he was a right wing fundamentalist nutjob (its amazing how they justify killing innocents in the name of God/Allah/whoever), but without a firm understanding of Norweigian politics/society it just sort of lurks out there as another human tragedy without context.
 
Norway is a peaceful country with the only noteworthy conflict being with a Neo-Nazi movement. There is no evidence that this was religiously motivated. Violence is almost unheard of in Norway and a lot of the police don't even carry guns.

Obviously it's a tragedy but I don't really want to discuss it because people are jumping to conclusions already. This is one person who had his personal reasons that I suspect will make no sense. Why the Columbine killings, why does a military psychiatrist open fire and kill, why the other killing rampages at schools, why did Ted what's his name send bombs to people's offices, why the anthrax letters, why did McVeigh set off a bomb in Oklahoma City and kill 168 people, why did the Congresswoman get shot at the beginning of the year? Heck, why was Kennedy killed? Endless amounts of thought and investigation have gone into the Kennedy assassination and I'll bet that even now, there is no coherent and undeniable reason for his killing.

We are a violent race and sometimes the stray person is so angry that he explodes at whoever or whatever he thinks is the cause of his anger. Almost every instance of this that has happened in the end makes no sense except in a twisted, personal way.

There is no justification for what happened no matter what this guy thought. That is obvious. Why does it happen? I don't know. The "fundamentalist nutjobs" make more sense to me than people like this. He's alive and can be interviewed. We'll find out more but McVeigh was alive and in prison and for the life of me I can't remember why he killed so many people.

To me this will be something I won't forget but I have long since passed the point of being shocked that this kind of thing happens. Perhaps I have just become too cold. Perhaps also it is not worth discussing TO ME because it is one of many episodes of inexplicable violent behavior and I doubt anything meaningful will come of knowing the reason "why."

Maybe calling him a "nutjob" is good enough.
 
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Bricklayer said:
Well do they have a motive yet? Speculation was that he was a right wing fundamentalist nutjob (its amazing how they justify killing innocents in the name of God/Allah/whoever), but without a firm understanding of Norweigian politics/society it just sort of lurks out there as another human tragedy without context.
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In short, he's pissed that "Islam is taking over Europe". There's alot of Muslim immigrants in Norway. I'm not getting into any of that regardless of how nonsensical it is, but I think that would be a very, very simplified version of his motive. The govt., in his eyes, failed to combat this. I'm not a political person so I'm not going to pretend I can make sense of it all.

As I said, the document he wrote himself is available online (although I haven't seen it), so his motives are out there for anyone to see if they're interested enough.
 
Dime Dropper said:
In short, he's pissed that "Islam is taking over Europe". There's alot of Muslim immigrants in Norway. I'm not getting into any of that regardless of how nonsensical it is, but I think that would be a very, very simplified version of his motive. The govt., in his eyes, failed to combat this. I'm not a political person so I'm not going to pretend I can make sense of it all.

As I said, the document he wrote himself is available online (although I haven't seen it), so his motives are out there for anyone to see if they're interested enough.
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Yes, this is the underlying reason. There are 144,000 Muslims in Norway. Read on and his encounters with Muslims were, in fact, peaceful although he said his friends or acquaintances had run-ins with Pakistanis. He somehow escaped the run-ins because a friend was Pakistani. (Huh? Did he say he had a Muslim friend?)

Therefore immigration had to be restricted so the numbers of Muslims entering Norway would stop. Apparently the Labour Party was not stopping immigration so what better to do than kill a bunch of 16-30 year olds at a Labour Party yearly getaway and try to kill the Labour Party prime minister on a holiday. (Huh?)

He has his reasons but killing the Labour Party youth hardly solves the problem of the upcoming "racial impurity" of Norway. Even the neo-Nazis are distancing themselves from him.

OK, so I am discussing this. I lied. :) But in the end what do we know? We know his reasons which are obviously a huge distortion of his personal experiences. Now we understand and, of course, it is nonsense and hopefully not indicative of any other of Norway's citizen's views about what should be done with the "Muslim problem."
 
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I couldn't believe when I read this. Out of all places out there Norway has a massacre like this? I mean you never hear anything going on in Norway! But you can never assume any part of the world is safe so RIP to all those unfortunate young souls.
 
In the same weekend, 6 people are killed and 4 wounded in a private party at a roller rink in Texas. This is not even news in the US.

This Norwegian faces a maximum 21 year sentence as that is the law of Norway. He will be out of prison at age 53. Think about it.
 
Glenn said:
In the same weekend, 6 people are killed and 4 wounded in a private party at a roller rink in Texas. This is not even news in the US.

This Norwegian faces a maximum 21 year sentence as that is the law of Norway. He will be out of prison at age 53. Think about it.
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He could get forvaring (or something like that) which basically means that a judge decides when he gets out, even if his sentence is up. So it's possible that he could spend the rest of his life behind bars, which is what he deserves.
 
He can be kept beyond 21 years if a judge determines that he is a continuing threat. A lot can happen in 21 years. Norwegians are very big on the concept of rehabilitation and I would not be surprised if he was considered suitable for discharge after 21 years. He may be seen as more a political activist than a murderer. Norway has one of the lowest murder rates in the world so this way of handling things seems to work for them. It is very easy for an American to criticize this system but the results, if they ARE results and not a product of something else, is a relatively violence free society.

My personal thoughts on why there is so little violence in Norway might make me sound like a flaming right winger and I'm not.
 
My personal opinion is that he'll never get out. No one is going to believe he's rehabilitated after the effort he went to to evade looking suspicious. He'll never be trusted and rightly so. All this is assuming he doesn't get murdered in prison, which is a real possibility.
 
I looked for a picture of a Norwegian prison and I came up with this. Note that murderers and rapists are here.


Another view of the same prison.


I guess this is a transitional prison: murder some one, go to a maximum security prison, and then move here as you make the transition back to society.
 
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There simply is no justification. Norway has its issues, as any country does. Americans just generally aren't aware of them. This is a tragedy. A horrible tragedy.

My sympathies go out to the friends, family and loved ones of those who were killed or injured. My heart goes out to the people of Norway.May their strength sustain them.
 
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