Marvin Bagley will ball out next season!

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#31
Yep. And if Vlade drafted Bagley to be a stopper to begin with that was his critical mistake. He wasn't projected number 2 because of his defensive potential. They should have looked at Bamba if that was the goal. Then again, this is the franchise that took arguably the best catch and shoot G and forced him to become a combo/playmaking G. Which Buddy has done well BTW. Was it smart however? Clearly not if you were trying to maximize what players do best to win games since the winning part still eludes them.
I can't imagine that's what Vlade or anyone wanted. He was supposed to be a guaranteed 20/10 guy which I still think he can be that and more (25/12 is not out of the question in the modern NBA I think it really is what 20/10 was a decade ago), but you better pair him with an eager defender of equal size.
 
#32
I can't imagine that's what Vlade or anyone wanted. He was supposed to be a guaranteed 20/10 guy which I still think he can be that and more (25/12 is not out of the question in the modern NBA I think it really is what 20/10 was a decade ago), but you better pair him with an eager defender of equal size.
And per minute he has been that. When you have proven to be as consistent per 36 as he has statistically it's probably likely with an uptick in minutes that those numbers will follow. This isn't someone playing 8 mpg and putting up Wilt numbers per minute. Or even someone like Moses Brown who did it for like a week and everyone thought they were seeing Wilts ghost. haha. Even though he's missed a ton of games the results are consistent year over year.
 
#44
Chasing out of town sounds like a bit much. No one—not the team, not the player—should be making personnel decisions or demands based on what they read online.
Can't have it both ways. Sacramento can't be a great place to play because the fan support is so good and also act as if when the fans and media attack a guy it shouldn't matter.
 
#47
Of course, but the key decisions should not be influenced by our discussions!
I'm pretty sure it's not influenced by kingsfans.com. However, some in the media have been on a multi year campaign saying negative things about him on their show and then couch it in "But he's a good guy and I want him to succeed. " That has an impact on how he is perceived by fans and how HE perceives his situation in the city.

There is absolutely no reason to want to play in Sacramento if the city is trashing you. None. No benefits.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#48
For the record; My stance is still run him out there and hope for the best unless we can trade him for something useful now, which seems unlikely at best.

1: He improves, we keep him.

2: He improves ups his trade value, we get returned value.

3: He’s remains a semi-toxic net negative, TANK FTW and really time to move on.

4: He gets hurt again, okay it’s really time to move on now if this happens.

Win win win win. I’m not shipping him out for an Alex Oriahki and a protected second rounder.
 
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Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
#50
You know what?

NO. We're not doing this.

This thread was started by @upinsmoke with the intention of it being an optimistic thread about the potential for Marvin Bagley to improve next year and the usual suspects have come in and crapped all over it.

I won't have that.

This isn't to say that people can't post alternate points of view, or have a reasoned discussion about Bagley's future. But that's not what's happening here and I am damn well putting my foot down. There will not be any warning points issued from the things posted in this thread. But there are going to be a lot of posts deleted from this thread before it goes back live, and anybody whom I determine to have been "at fault" (some deleted posts were responding to "at fault" posts) will be locked out of commenting on this thread.

And then I'm bringing the thread back live and we can have a rational discussion without trashing our own players.

Thank you.
 
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funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#51
There's a reason McNair dangled Bagley for Bey (and probably others we didn't hear about) during the season. And it's not because he doesn't have talent. He clearly does.

Right now the Kings are in a tough spot.

If Bagley were to stay healthy and have a good season the Kings have to decide whether to give him a new contract (or more likely whether to match another team's offer) or lose him for nothing.

And right now his value is at an all-time low because of (a) his injury history (b) his inconsistent play & poor defense and (c) his lack of fit in today's NBA. Not only that but any team that were to trade for him would be in the same situation the Kings are now of having to make a tough decision at the end of next season if he does happen to put it together and play well. So there's little point in trading him IMO.

There are really no good options right now

But if he's still on the roster I'll continue to root for Bagley to take a big step forward and have a monster year. For improvements on defense too. As long as Bagley is a King I'll keep rooting for him.
 
#52
I think at this point it's safe to say Sacramento has relinquished any claim to the title of "Best Fans In The NBA".
And the angst is well deservedly pointed back towards this organization might I add. At some point you have to call out the incompetence of another billionaire owner dropping their nuts all over a fan base and the dollar store product they're selling. There is so much money involved in the NBA from players to team valuation that players and owners better tread real carefully when it comes to their emo laced outward emotion towards fans or their situation. Yeah, sure Bagley has be jerked around, but he can still wipe his tears away with all his Benjamins so looking to the average Joe for sympathy ain't gonna fly jr. The first test was that last lockout when players went running to social media with a fist in the air and a "fight the power" attitude only to find fans coming back with middle fingers.
 
#54
Can you imagine the issues someone as, seemingly, sensitive as Bagley would have in a town like Philly or NY.

Obviously some things go too far but I think he might need to develop a thicker skin.
EXACTLY!!! Ive supported Bagley the entire time. But if he think Sacramento is too tough he should go to Philly with Buddy for Ben Simmons. He will have a rude awakening and see first hand how Sacramento media isn't really that tough. I still hope he balls out next year on the Kings but these things are cumulative, he wasn't Monte's pick and maybe the organization feels they are better off moving forward now. But you don't see this type of stuff from the young players with star potential. Fox and Haliburton don't speak like him. Other young players maybe who have injury problems or aren't happy with minutes don't behave like him either. Bagley needs to learn to be a professional. Maybe then his talent will shine through.
 

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#55
Marvin looked pretty good coming back after injury before getting injured again, I was impressed with his decision making and how his patience was improving. I was also quite surprised at how his 3pt shot was developing. He seemed eager to play and eager to improve and learn.

I am hoping his defensive presence improves, I do not know if it will next season with Walton at the helm.

Of course the Sword of Damocles hangs above his head and ours for decisions made beyond our control, in past years I have noticed the vitriol that fans an anonymous internet people have had for players has increased and the spectators have had much to say for the participators of a hard to master sport.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#56
Carmichael Dave had pointed out that the bar to succeed in Sacramento is just working hard and saying you like the city.

I have definitely had my issues with people never giving Bagley a chance but I also tend to agree that it would be easily fixable if he just embraced the city and culture the way Fox and Haliburton have. Or even just got his dad to shut the hell up and make it sound like he was part of the Kings TEAM and not Team Bagley.

Seriously he could come out this afternoon and say "I want to be here, Sacramento has been good to me" and it could turn around overnight.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#57
Well, I'll give my two cents on this deal. I've done my best to be supportive of Bagley since we drafted him, and I was fine with drafting him at the time. It's easier to be critical three years later when we see what the results are, not only of Bagley, but of those drafted before and immediately after him. None of that was his fault, and he didn't aske to be drafted 2nd in the first round. Matter of fact, I believe he thought he should have been the number one pick. He would have been wrong, but I admired his confidence at the time.

If you take away the players he was sandwiched with, his numbers don't look so bad. At least offensively. I'm a results guy, and the reasons either positively or negatively don't matter that much after three years, only the results matter. At least that's how I would look at it if I were the GM. A player who has been mentioned in comparison to Bagley of late, and for obvious reasons, is Sam Bowie. He regarded as one of the worse draft choices in the history of the NBA. Why, because he couldn't stay on the court, and no matter how good you are, if your not out there playing, your of no value to the team..

So did some research and it turns out that Bowie played in 119 games in his first three years. How many has Bagley played in his first three years? 118 games. Now I believe that Bowie only played in 5 games in his 4th year, and I'd be shocked if Bagley didn't play significantly more than that. But so far, he's on the same career path as Bowie. To be fair, Bowie's injuries were chronic, and so far Bagley's haven't been. So there's a good chance for a solid restart, if not with us, then somewhere else.

Another question that kept popping up in my head is why is Holmes so popular with the fans, and Bagley isn't. It's not that Bagley has been hated upon by most fans. I would say that for the most part the fan base has been somewhat ambivalent toward Bagley. They neither love him or hate him, and hope for the best. Back to the Holmes question. It's certainly not something totally based on results, because they put up very similar numbers. Holmes averaged 14 pt's and 8 boards along with 1.7 assists while Bagley averaged 14 pt's and 7.5 boards along with 1.0 assists. I suppose the fact that Bagley was the 2nd pick in the draft, and Holmes was a 2nd rd pick enters into the equation because of expectations, but is that fair? That's a question for another day.

I think it would have helped if Bagley had a charismatic engaging personality like Haliburton and Fox, but he doesn't. Or if he does, he doesn't care to share it with us. He comes across somewhat aloof. It would help if he were out there waving a towel or fist pumping during a game like Justin James and crew. But instead he's sitting in the back row with ear phones on. I take umbrage with the idea that we don't have one of the best fan bases in the NBA. All fans ask is that you give them a reason to like you. And were not picky, we'll take any excuse. Just make an freaking effort, and we'll start looking the other way when your late on a switch or with help.

My gut tells me that McNair will do everything within his power to move Marvin this offseason. It's likely that the only conclusion is a divorce. It scares me because the last thing I want to see is Bagley traded, and then be in the all star game two years from now. It's a shame that Bagley followed up that "like" with removing all evidence of Sacramento and the Kings from his social media platform. One could have considered the "like" a reference to Ayton's post. But he went all in with the social media change. That's not how you endear yourself to a fan base that's been more tolerant of the injuries and poor defense than I expected.

He should feel blessed he wasn't drafted by the 76'ers or the Knicks where he would have been flayed and barbequed by now. I think all things considered, he's had a fairly easy ride as far as criticism is concerned. That's not to say he hasn't had a rough go of it physically, but that has nothing to do with the fans and I'm sure he wasn't trying to get injured. As I said when I started, I'm a results guy, and so far, Bagley hasn't given me anything to write home about. Yeah, I know, he hasn't stayed on the court long enough to get the needed experience. But at this point, I don't care about that. I only care about the results! The Why's are now irrelevant!!
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#58
My gut tells me that McNair will do everything within his power to move Marvin this offseason. It's likely that the only conclusion is a divorce. It scares me because the last thing I want to see is Bagley traded, and then be in the all star game two years from now.
This is the thing that terrifies me too. But I think we both addressed that the bare minimum to be liked in Sacramento is actually a pretty low bar, and being honest, if a player can't even do that - how are they going to succeed in the NBA?

Like let's go look at another high expectations pick we had, WCS. There was a guy who had a very easy time in Sacramento, didn't get criticized much, but also couldn't be arsed to even pretend like he cared. And when his final year came up and he was like "show me the money" he got what he had coming to him. A minimum deal.

Now sure, Bagley could wash out in Sacramento, wind up on a prove it deal some place next year and find himself in Holmes's position. And really, we love Holmes because at least up until "I'm getting paid!" Holmes showed up in the exit interviews, he initially came in with zero expectations, played his heart out and embraced the team/city dynamic. So had Bagley washed out in Phoenix, Dallas or ATL he could have come to the Kings and won us over with minimum effort. How many other cities will afford him that opportunity?

Realistically, where can he go?

Seriously, is there nobody that can smack some sense into him and tell him how his best path forward is putting his head down, working hard, showing some love to the fanbase and putting himself in the position where the fans demand he get re-signed at a raise? Because he's not getting that anywhere else, and odds are about 80% the next fanbase is going to be far more toxic.
 
#59
Carmichael Dave had pointed out that the bar to succeed in Sacramento is just working hard and saying you like the city.

I have definitely had my issues with people never giving Bagley a chance but I also tend to agree that it would be easily fixable if he just embraced the city and culture the way Fox and Haliburton have. Or even just got his dad to shut the hell up and make it sound like he was part of the Kings TEAM and not Team Bagley.

Seriously he could come out this afternoon and say "I want to be here, Sacramento has been good to me" and it could turn around overnight.
Just look at Giles. He is no where near as good as fox or haliburton. His stats don’t compare to bagley. But he showed his love for the city and the team and in return gets love. We look past his flaws and put him on a pedestal because we feel he did the same to the city.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#60
Just look at Giles. He is no where near as good as fox or haliburton. His stats don’t compare to bagley. But he showed his love for the city and the team and in return gets love. We look past his flaws and put him on a pedestal because we feel he did the same to the city.
Nice one, remember when the board and Kings community at large went nuts because we were gonna be outbid for his services after we didn't pick up his fourth year?

I realize Team Bagley probably fancies MBIII worthy of 30 million per year but he'd easily get at least 20 million if he shut the f up, put his head down, and did the bare minimum. He's potentially making a $100 million dollar mistake by being a petulant child instead of a team player.