MARVIN BAGLEY III

[Iced Espresso]

You can show all the guys who didn't perform in SL that turned out, or those who looked great and did not. But call a spade a spade, he looked terrible out there.

 

[ockingsfan]

Bagley struggles wouldn't be so hard tobstomach if Jackson wasnt tearing it up and looking the far superior talent over in Memphis

Really?

Besides his first game, Jaren Jackson has been pretty average to below average.

He had 10 points (on 4 for 11) and 8 points (on 1 for 7) his last two games on very poor shooting percentage is not really tearing it up in my book.

On my count both Bagley and JJ had one good game and 2 bad ones each.

 

[Tetsujin]

Really?

Besides his first game, Jaren Jackson has been pretty average to below average.

He had 10 points (on 4 for 11) and 8 points (on 1 for 7) his last two games on very poor shooting percentage is not really tearing it up in my book.

On my count both Bagley and JJ had one good game and 2 bad ones each.

Okay. So both guys are scrubs and aren't going to cut it in the NBA then. They certainly won't ever be as good as Mo Wagner, who according to the California Classic is going to be the next Dirk.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Really?

Besides his first game, Jaren Jackson has been pretty average to below average.

He had 10 points (on 4 for 11) and 8 points (on 1 for 7) his last two games on very poor shooting percentage is not really tearing it up in my book.

On my count both Bagley and JJ had one good game and 2 bad ones each.

He plays defense

He doesn’t not make impact on games and look like no discernible talent

 

[Ozymandias]

Okay. So both guys are scrubs and aren't going to cut it in the NBA then. Then certainly won't ever be as good as Mo Wagner, who according to the California Classic is going to be the next Dirk.

Mo Wagner is no Kelly Olynyk, he damn sure isn't Lauri Markkanen either, that comparison is lazy. He basically won the best bigman shooter distinction so some showtime team looking for a cheap stretch 5 option took a flier in the end of the first rd.

 

[allrightythen]

It's not pre-season, it's not even pre-pre-season. It's whatever comes before that. I can count the times he's practiced as an NBA player on one hand and still have leftover fingers, but I'm thinking that's enough to consider him a scrub who lacks any discernable talent. Can we send him down the Georgios path?

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

I'm still going to hold out hope for bagley and give him the benefit of the doubt. Game 1 was completely different from game 2 and 3. In game 1 you had fox looking to create and push the offense. Playing at a quick tempo is where Bagley thrives. He showed it at duke all year and he showed it in game 1. Game 2 and 3 were slow paced games where mason or our other guard did nothing to get the big guys involved. Every time Bagley got the ball it was either in a weird position in the post or as time was expiring on the clock. I was sitting second row. I even heard him yell at mason to "move the f*****g ball." Our ball movement was atrocious and everyone just looked out for themselves. I know he looked hideous but I am confident that next to fox and bogie, both guys who actually look to get others involved and move the ball, Bagley will look much better than he did the last two games. That being said his career really hinges on his ability to use his right hand. It's clear after game 1 that the warriors and heat knew he had no right at all and put all the pressure towards making him use it and the results, well they speak for themselves. If I'm the kings trainers I'm locking Bagley in a gym and tying his left hand behind his back.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Serious question. Do we have examples of guys that played way below their draft slot in SL and then turned out to be studs?

 

[ESP47]

I'm still going to hold out hope for bagley and give him the benefit of the doubt. Game 1 was completely different from game 2 and 3. In game 1 you had fox looking to create and push the offense. Playing at a quick tempo is where Bagley thrives. He showed it at duke all year and he showed it in game 1. Game 2 and 3 were slow paced games where mason or our other guard did nothing to get the big guys involved. Every time Bagley got the ball it was either in a weird position in the post or as time was expiring on the clock. I was sitting second row. I even heard him yell at mason to "move the f*****g ball." Our ball movement was atrocious and everyone just looked out for themselves. I know he looked hideous but I am confident that next to fox and bogie, both guys who actually look to get others involved and move the ball, Bagley will look much better than he did the last two games. That being said his career really hinges on his ability to use his right hand. It's clear after game 1 that the warriors and heat knew he had no right at all and put all the pressure towards making him use it and the results, well they speak for themselves. If I'm the kings trainers I'm locking Bagley in a gym and tying his left hand behind his back.

The weird thing is that in the first game, Mason was the one who did the best job of distributing the ball. He hooked up with Bagley and Giles a couple times and had what, 9 assists and 2 turnovers? Fox had less assists and more turnovers. I don't know if it was just a random good game for Mason or if Fox being out there really opened things up but he did a really good job of finding guys for buckets in that first game and failed miserably the last two.

I agree with your last sentence there. He at least needs to start making the easy simple plays with his right by the time this season is over.

 

[roasthawg]

It's not the start from bagley I was hoping for, that's for sure. But he just went for 21 and 11 at Duke, he's not as bad as he's looked these last two games. Definitely has a long way to go though, he is no instant impact guy a la Kat.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

The weird thing is that in the first game, Mason was the one who did the best job of distributing the ball. He hooked up with Bagley and Giles a couple times and had what, 9 assists and 2 turnovers? Fox had less assists and more turnovers. I don't know if it was just a random good game for Mason or if Fox being out there really opened things up but he did a really good job of finding guys for buckets in that first game and failed miserably the last two.

I agree with your last sentence there. He at least needs to start making the easy simple plays with his right by the time this season is over.

Yeah I guess it's not fair to say that mason wasn't trying to move the ball. He did find Jackson open a couple times and fed giles as well. It just seemed like for the most part our guards were looking out for themselves. There were a handful of plays where Bagley beat his man or made a nice cut to get open and no one found him. He also was wide open at the free throw line a few times when mason drove but instead of kicking it out to Bagley he just took a contested layup. I don't want to pin the whole thing on mason because it's definitely not his fault, I just don't think he and Bagley have any chemistry yet.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Somewhat lost in the handwringing here is the fact that Bagley took three shots today. Three. And that's only if you include the time he was fouled, which doesn't show up as a FGA. And he had two turnovers. So all told, he accounted for FIVE offensive possessions. That's called being frozen out.

Meanwhile Justin Jackson attempted 19 shots (17 FGA) and used 20 possessions. Players who I guarantee will not be on our regular season squad attempted 27 shots (24 FGA) and used 34 possessions. I really don't know what he's supposed to do when Jackson is trying to prevent us signing a free agent that would relegate him to the bench and a bunch of other guys are trying their best to make the G-League. All told in the game 86 possessions, our #2 pick got 5. So I'm not really worried about his offense.

Meanwhile, I thought he played very good defense (far better than advertised, though I never thought he was terrible to start with) and showed a real good aptitude for making a smooth switch, especially considering that this squad should have no defensive chemistry. He was active. He didn't put his head down when things weren't going his way. I just don't know what more you can ask for from a guy who has shown us for a full season that he can dominate college basketball and then gets frozen out in a Summer League game. If our squad changes course and puts him in a position to succeed next game, he'll drop 20. I'm not worried about it.

 

[Suicide King]

Somewhat lost in the handwringing here is the fact that Bagley took three shots today. Three. And that's only if you include the time he was fouled, which doesn't show up as a FGA. And he had two turnovers. So all told, he accounted for FIVE offensive possessions. That's called being frozen out.

Meanwhile Justin Jackson attempted 19 shots (17 FGA) and used 20 possessions. Players who I guarantee will not be on our regular season squad attempted 27 shots (24 FGA) and used 34 possessions. I really don't know what he's supposed to do when Jackson is trying to prevent us signing a free agent that would relegate him to the bench and a bunch of other guys are trying their best to make the G-League. All told in the game 86 possessions, our #2 pick got 5. So I'm not really worried about his offense.

Meanwhile, I thought he played very good defense (far better than advertised, though I never thought he was terrible to start with) and showed a real good aptitude for making a smooth switch, especially considering that this squad should have no defensive chemistry. He was active. He didn't put his head down when things weren't going his way. I just don't know what more you can ask for from a guy who has shown us for a full season that he can dominate college basketball and then gets frozen out in a Summer League game. If our squad changes course and puts him in a position to succeed next game, he'll drop 20. I'm not worried about it.

I was working so missed the game.

Considering it is summer league, and that Larry Lewis is coaching this season ( good on the org. for letting him get some reps) , I wonder if the HC of Player Development might be less inclined to worry about a W in SL, as opposed to testing many many different facets of this SL squad.

Again, I missed the game due to work, sadly.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Before I point out the obvious flaws in such statement, I'd like to say it has been a looooong time before I remember a teammate sticking up for one another in Sacramento. Certainly don't remember much of that in the Cousins era...

You must have a short memory then. Cousins stuck up plenty for his teammates (regularly made comments about McLemore similar to Giles about Bagley, and don't forget Seth Curry), and his teammates stuck up for him. Jesus, this is the second unnecessary dig I've seen someone take at Cuz this morning. Can you guys not let it go? He's gone, you got exactly what you wanted.

 

[206Fan]

Summer League may be the least useful predictor of NBA success there is. I suppose you could say that these players are being “coached,” but in the absence of practice time and team chemistry, Summer League action remains a close cousin of the pick-up game. Plenty of players shine in that environment. Others don’t. Mostly it’s an opportunity for young cornerstones to get some reps, for undrafted players to get noticed, and to underline the NBA’s desire to be a year-round sport.

But there’s no discernible pattern of Summer League success forecasting NBA success. Some guys play well and it “translates.” Some guys play well and it doesn’t. Some guys stink it up and they shine during the regular season, anyway. Some guys just stink. Tyreke Evans absolutely dominated Summer League play, but he never developed into an all-star level talent. Demarcus Cousins was largely unimpressive during his Summer League stint, but he eventually evolved into one of the best bigs in the game prior to his Achilles injury.

Point is, the hot takes about Marvin Bagley’s Summer League performance are burning with the heat of a thousand suns... and it’s just plain silly. Getting too high or too low over these games is probably ill-advised for your stress level, given the utterly minimal stakes. I guess if you were hoping the Kings had drafted someone else, then it represents your first opportunity to be vindicated. Good for you. Pat yourself on the back. A meaningless game has proven you “right.”

Now, I’m hardly mister rah-rah, purple-tinted sunglasses. Rarely do I ooze an excess of positivity about the Kings. You won’t find me making definitive statements about how good Bagley or Fox or any other King is going to be. Personally, I’m approaching this new youth movement with cautious optimism and a healthy dose of skepticism. I can see the faint outline of a future winner in this roster, but some holes need to be filled and a lot has to break right for that to happen.

So... give it time to happen, I say. The new guys need at least a couple seasons under their belts before we start making proclamations about what they will or won’t become. Fun though it may be to catch a glimpse, the effing Summer League isn’t going to reveal much.

It doesn't help that all of the Kings busts have looked bad in SL.

1) Jimmer Fredette. Couldn't play PG to save his life. I remember it being brutal outside of a few made 3pters.

2) Thomas Robinson. I recall him looking average at best. He wasn't bad bad, but he wasn't good either. Looked meh.

3) Ben McLemore. he struggled a lot. Couldn't handle the ball and shots wouldn't go in.

4) Nik Stauskas. I remember him being very bad. Looked athletically outmatched and his shots weren't falling

5) Georgios Papagiannis. HORRIFIC. He didn't even belong in SL. He was the only player on this list that most agreed was a bust as soon as he stepped on the court in SL. That's how laughably bad he was.

I'm not saying that Bagley will be a bust because he's struggled in SL. It just doesn't help that all of our busts have struggled in SL. We were all told that SL games meant nothing. With hindsight, we now know that SL was the beginning indications of our player being bad. So of course fans are going to panic when Bagley looks like absolute crap vs. someone like Jones Jr.

Bagley still has the Vegas SL to prove himself before summer ends. I don't know about you guys, but I'm expecting more than 1pt 2rebs from the #2 overall pick. No one is being too hard on him right now. He's played like crap for 2 days and he deserves the criticism. The FO doubled down on him with the comments to Carmichael Dave and used CMD as their PR to defend the draft choice. Alright, if Bagley is their #1 player on their draftboard, then he needs to play like it.

Again, I don't think Bagley is a bust. I've said it time and time again, I think he has AD's offensive potential. Let's not act like the SL is completely meaningless though.

 

[Livinthedream]

Somewhat lost in the handwringing here is the fact that Bagley took three shots today. Three. And that's only if you include the time he was fouled, which doesn't show up as a FGA. And he had two turnovers. So all told, he accounted for FIVE offensive possessions. That's called being frozen out.

Meanwhile Justin Jackson attempted 19 shots (17 FGA) and used 20 possessions. Players who I guarantee will not be on our regular season squad attempted 27 shots (24 FGA) and used 34 possessions. I really don't know what he's supposed to do when Jackson is trying to prevent us signing a free agent that would relegate him to the bench and a bunch of other guys are trying their best to make the G-League. All told in the game 86 possessions, our #2 pick got 5. So I'm not really worried about his offense.

Meanwhile, I thought he played very good defense (far better than advertised, though I never thought he was terrible to start with) and showed a real good aptitude for making a smooth switch, especially considering that this squad should have no defensive chemistry. He was active. He didn't put his head down when things weren't going his way. I just don't know what more you can ask for from a guy who has shown us for a full season that he can dominate college basketball and then gets frozen out in a Summer League game. If our squad changes course and puts him in a position to succeed next game, he'll drop 20. I'm not worried about it.

I completely agree.

I'll say it again. SL is for guards and ball handlers. Big men typically have a harder time for a variety of reasons. Especially in the paint. When you have guards on the SL squad who are trying to make A team, they're not looking to pass. They're trying to show off. And i'm not mad at JJ either. Everyone keeps talking about needing a SF. If I were him, I'd use this time to shut the critics up too.

It's on the coaching staff to get these guys to pass and play like a team.

 

[dmj]

I remember Durant, Oden, Rose, and a lot of other talented high draft picks struggling mightily in Summer League. It just isn't a great context for evaluating a player.

 

[The_Jamal]

It doesn't help that all of the Kings busts have looked bad in SL.

1) Jimmer Fredette. Couldn't play PG to save his life. I remember it being brutal outside of a few made 3pters.

2) Thomas Robinson. I recall him looking average at best. He wasn't bad bad, but he wasn't good either. Looked meh.

3) Ben McLemore. he struggled a lot. Couldn't handle the ball and shots wouldn't go in.

4) Nik Stauskas. I remember him being very bad. Looked athletically outmatched and his shots weren't falling

5) Georgios Papagiannis. HORRIFIC. He didn't even belong in SL. He was the only player on this list that most agreed was a bust as soon as he stepped on the court in SL. That's how laughably bad he was.

I'm not saying that Bagley will be a bust because he's struggled in SL. It just doesn't help that all of our busts have struggled in SL. We were all told that SL games meant nothing. With hindsight, we now know that SL was the beginning indications of our player being bad. So of course fans are going to panic when Bagley looks like absolute crap vs. someone like Jones Jr.

Bagley still has the Vegas SL to prove himself before summer ends. I don't know about you guys, but I'm expecting more than 1pt 2rebs from the #2 overall pick. No one is being too hard on him right now. He's played like crap for 2 days and he deserves the criticism. The FO doubled down on him with the comments to Carmichael Dave and used CMD as their PR to defend the draft choice. Alright, if Bagley is their #1 player on their draftboard, then he needs to play like it.

Again, I don't think Bagley is a bust. I've said it time and time again, I think he has AD's offensive potential. Let's not act like the SL is completely meaningless though.

But... it is.

There's literally no correlation anywhere to good or bad SL performances and NBA success and anyone trying to tout that there is some is flat out lying. You're choosing an INSANELY small sample of players who looked bad and were bad NBA players. Just our #KANGZ luck that we had all of them, but it doesn't mean anything as we continue forward with Giles/Bagley/Fox/JJ. And even so, Bagley hasn't looked even close to as bad as any of those dudes did in their rookie SL.

SL is basically for NBA junkies to get excited about their young players and for the NBA to get back in the news cycle in their off-season.

 

[The_Jamal]

It's not the start from bagley I was hoping for, that's for sure. But he just went for 21 and 11 at Duke, he's not as bad as he's looked these last two games. Definitely has a long way to go though, he is no instant impact guy a la Kat.

How the ever-lasting hell do you know?

This isn't even the real SL yet. 0 practices, 0 training camp, 0 time to get on an NBA training regiment for a couple months before the season starts. It's annoying that people make proclamations like this based off what amounts to virtually nothing in the SL game tape.

I almost wish SL wasn't a thing. The hot taeks just get too damn hot.

 

[TaxMan]

I'll say it again. SL is for guards and ball handlers. Big men typically have a harder time for a variety of reasons. Especially in the paint. When you have guards on the SL squad who are trying to make A team, they're not looking to pass. They're trying to show off. And i'm not mad at JJ either. Everyone keeps talking about needing a SF. If I were him, I'd use this time to shut the critics up too.

It's on the coaching staff to get these guys to pass and play like a team.

I think that may be the big difference from game 1. Fox is not playing for his job. He was working to get the team going. Also notice that JJ was absent from that game (not literally but figuratively). Let’s hope that game was a more indicative view of Bagley.

 

[TaxMan]

Somewhat lost in the handwringing here is the fact that Bagley took three shots today. Three. And that's only if you include the time he was fouled, which doesn't show up as a FGA. And he had two turnovers. So all told, he accounted for FIVE offensive possessions. That's called being frozen out.

Meanwhile Justin Jackson attempted 19 shots (17 FGA) and used 20 possessions. Players who I guarantee will not be on our regular season squad attempted 27 shots (24 FGA) and used 34 possessions. I really don't know what he's supposed to do when Jackson is trying to prevent us signing a free agent that would relegate him to the bench and a bunch of other guys are trying their best to make the G-League. All told in the game 86 possessions, our #2 pick got 5. So I'm not really worried about his offense.

Meanwhile, I thought he played very good defense (far better than advertised, though I never thought he was terrible to start with) and showed a real good aptitude for making a smooth switch, especially considering that this squad should have no defensive chemistry. He was active. He didn't put his head down when things weren't going his way. I just don't know what more you can ask for from a guy who has shown us for a full season that he can dominate college basketball and then gets frozen out in a Summer League game. If our squad changes course and puts him in a position to succeed next game, he'll drop 20. I'm not worried about it.

I agree with this. Main puzzling thing to me is his lack of rebounding. I didn’t see the game, but someone else commented that they really had him playing SF (and the box score on the nba app had him listed as a SF also). Was he just put in really weird positions on the floor. I suspect he has played little to no SF in his life. Could this be a big factor?

 

[beb0p]

Serious question. Do we have examples of guys that played way below their draft slot in SL and then turned out to be studs?

Off the top of my head - Ben Simmons.

He shot 4-17 (23.5%) FG in summer league. He couldn't hit water falling out of a boat. To be fair, I looked like he was trying to work on his jump shots.

.

 

[NewArena]

24 of his 29 points came from threes. If that's what you want out of your big man go ahead then and join that club. It's not what I want out of our big guys. One hasn't played in over a year and the other put up 18-6-3 in 25 minutes.

LOL i can’t believe this was even a discussion. 13 three point attempts? No thanks. Good for him though. I’ll take Bagley and Giles in terms of their playing style

 

[NewArena]

Mad respect for this kid already.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1014029043614662656

Wow. You can tell just reading that, that he has a special humble spirit and wants to be great not only for his own selfish reasons, but to make everyone else proud and happy to have him as well. That’s important, and i see why he apparently blew our team away, weeks before officially even selecting him in the draft. That had to have been refreshing for it all to match his actually physical gifts

 

[NewArena]

Lauri Markkanen played some lousy ball last summer, and people were panicking. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/07/bu...arkkanen-denzel-valentine-hawks-cameron-payne This happens all the time. In fact, just for fun, let's take a moment to remember some Kings who did very well in Summer League.

Seth Curry, 24.3 points per game, All-NBA SL first team
Ray McCallum, SL Championship MVP
Spencer Hawes, SL All Tournament First Team
Ronnie Price, SL All Tournament Second Team

Who were the SL's most recent season MVPs?
2017 - Lonzo Ball
2016 - Tyus Jones
2015 - Kyle Anderson
2014 - Glen Rice
2013 - Jonas Valanciunas

People need to take these games a bit less seriously.

Welp. All i needed to see here! Thank you for this. The flashes shown and level of competitiveness is what matters to me the most when it comes to these summer league games.

 

[NewArena]

Really?

Besides his first game, Jaren Jackson has been pretty average to below average.

He had 10 points (on 4 for 11) and 8 points (on 1 for 7) his last two games on very poor shooting percentage is not really tearing it up in my book.

On my count both Bagley and JJ had one good game and 2 bad ones each.

LOL they had me thinking JJ was dropping at least 25 plus on back to back nights again. Oh please

Guys ... relax. How much practice time have these guys even had together? 12 of these guys won’t even be on our actual team come pre-season. those other guys are all about self, fighting for their lives out there.

 

[PHXSUNSFAN]

LOL they had me thinking JJ was dropping at least 25 plus on back to back nights again. Oh please

Guys ... relax. How much practice time have these guys even had together? 12 of these guys won’t even be on our actual team come pre-season. those other guys are all about self, fighting for their lives out there.

Good point.

 

[PHXSUNSFAN]

Off the top of my head - Ben Simmons.

He shot 4-17 (23.5%) FG in summer league. He couldn't hit water falling out of a boat. To be fair, I looked like he was trying to work on his jump shots.

.

Steph Curry also hardly set the league on fire with his %s in this first summer league.

 

[PHXSUNSFAN]

It's not pre-season, it's not even pre-pre-season. It's whatever comes before that. I can count the times he's practiced as an NBA player on one hand and still have leftover fingers, but I'm thinking that's enough to consider him a scrub who lacks any discernable talent. Can we send him down the Georgios path?

G league immediately!

 

[PHXSUNSFAN]

Welp. All i needed to see here! Thank you for this. The flashes shown and level of competitiveness is what matters to me the most when it comes to these summer league games.

The competitiveness of summer league isn't bad because there are guys fighting for paychecks and roster spots but there's just no structure or organization...glorified pick up ball but with huge ramifications for some.