I think I missed the point where Bagley was a heavy footed big man.. he's the most athletic and agile big in this entire draft class. He moves amazingly. I'm really not sure why you think he can't guard stretch-4s. He has good lateral quickness. Maybe you're mistaking him for Wendell Carter Jr, because there's absolutely no reason why Bagley can't check PFs.
Marvin Bagley III
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And ya idk how anyone would think Bagley doesn't have the lateral quickness to guard big men. He may be agiler and faster than WCS!!! Now if you want to say big men will abuse him in the post then you may have a point but he can certainly get stronger with age. Bagley is a special athlete and everyone will see it day 1. I literally have never seen someones 2nd and 3rd jump be as fast as his. It's truly remarkable, and although I'd rather draft Porter and probably Ayton because I'm not sure Giles can play center, I certainly would take him over Luka. Bottomline, Bagley is going to be a scoring and rebounding machine. If he learns to play a little D..... WATCH OUT!
I find this statement funny from the standpoint that, not all that long ago, Ainge was viewed similarly — if not worse — than Vlade is now.
Ainge made lots of head scratching moves and often looked like he was in over his head and had no idea what he was doing. I guess something can be said for learning the craft while on the job!!
It really wasn’t until the KG, Allen, Rondo trio that Ainge went from laughing stock being considered a legit GM.
Ainge made lots of head scratching moves and often looked like he was in over his head and had no idea what he was doing. I guess something can be said for learning the craft while on the job!!
It really wasn’t until the KG, Allen, Rondo trio that Ainge went from laughing stock being considered a legit GM.
I watched a good amount of Duke games and I was initially impressed by Bagley's perimeter defense but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that he was mainly looking good against players that will never even sniff the NBA. I noticed when he had to guard real NBA prospects, he looked like your run of the mill skinny big man trying to guard the perimeter. Hit and miss.
His lateral quickness is better than Carter's for sure but I'm not so sure that it's going to be good enough to play at the 4 full time in the NBA. Check out the article in the first post of this thread and see what you think. It goes into a lot of detail but mostly about his offense. It also agrees with you and shows a clip of him playing great defense on the perimeter but he's also playing defense against Chris Chiozza, who may not even get drafted so you have to consider that as well.
His lateral quickness is better than Carter's for sure but I'm not so sure that it's going to be good enough to play at the 4 full time in the NBA. Check out the article in the first post of this thread and see what you think. It goes into a lot of detail but mostly about his offense. It also agrees with you and shows a clip of him playing great defense on the perimeter but he's also playing defense against Chris Chiozza, who may not even get drafted so you have to consider that as well.
That was 10 years ago! Belichick and Popovich weren't the Goats from day 1. The moves Ainge has made the last few years have been remarkable. Maybe Vlade can get there but this is a new world of technology and you need to pick up the damn phone to make deals. I love Vlade and think he has an eye for talent but I'm confident Vlade's negotiation skill will never be amongst the best in the league.
Porter and Bagley are both higher on my board than Luka. Both will be great but have different skill sets and I'd be happy with either. One thing to consider, there are several good SF in FA this year so if all is equal and Vlade thinks both will be studs then I wouldn't blame him for taking Bagley. He and Giles are so nimble and we could switch everything. We may get pushed around from time to time but the best teams don't have bruisers anyway so who gives a crap. Positionless basketball is here to stay!
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I'm not at all certain of who I would take at #2. (I'm setting Doncic aside for now because I've never even seen him play a game). Up until now, Baglely has been my #1, but I'm not jumping up and down about him being the clearly the best big in the draft. In fact, after reading what I think are pretty objective analyses from the same source (see below), I'm currently leaning toward Jackson. I keep thinking about his fluidity, his defensive prowess, his aggression, and just his overall physical gifts. I can't avoid Bagley's defensive deficiencies. Nor can I avoid Ayton's apathy at times on the court. On the defensive end, Jackson seems like he has considerably more upstairs than both of them, and for being so darned young, he's no slouch on the offensive end. I would though give both Bagley and Ayton clear edges in offense, especially Bagley. I'm not saying Bagley is the next Dirk Nowitski, but I will just suggest that an offensive force who is a good rebounder doesn't necessarily have to be good defensively in order to make a very large impact on the game. My mind could definitely change. Maybe this is going to be a situation where the workout really does make a difference, though I find it hard to see how a workout can assess defensive awareness. Or, maybe it's in the interviews that I'll get a better read on these guys. Time will tell.
https://www.thestepien.com/marvin-bagley/
https://www.thestepien.com/deandre-ayton/
https://www.thestepien.com/jaren-jackson/
https://www.thestepien.com/marvin-bagley/
https://www.thestepien.com/deandre-ayton/
https://www.thestepien.com/jaren-jackson/
Chris Chiozza may not be an NBA player, but he's a 6'0 175lb PG playing on a very good Florida team... and Bagley was playing great D against him. If he were a 6'7 stiff PF/SF, that's a different story, but he's a small speedy PG. All of the guys in this draft have gone up against guys who will never sniff the NBA. Even Doncic himself.
I think you're maissvely underrating Bagley's athleticism and quickness.
go to 3:48 if the video doesn't start at there. more than enough speed and quickness to keep up with NBA PFs. The weaknesses show his poor defensive awareness, but through those lapses, you can see he has very quick feet.
I think you're maissvely underrating Bagley's athleticism and quickness.
go to 3:48 if the video doesn't start at there. more than enough speed and quickness to keep up with NBA PFs. The weaknesses show his poor defensive awareness, but through those lapses, you can see he has very quick feet.
Bagley is a potential #1 scoring threat/ potential top 10 rebounder in the league.
The Kings prolly wont get another shot at a player of that caliber for a long time. No pick next year.. and the year after that they'll prolly be to good for the lottery and they'll have a mid first rounder..
They really do need that scoring leader to take the pressure off Bogi/Hield/Fox.
I just feel like that kind of potential is worth more to the Kings then Jacksons defensive game.
I'm a defense first guy aswell, we might already have our Jackson in Giles.
The Kings prolly wont get another shot at a player of that caliber for a long time. No pick next year.. and the year after that they'll prolly be to good for the lottery and they'll have a mid first rounder..
They really do need that scoring leader to take the pressure off Bogi/Hield/Fox.
I just feel like that kind of potential is worth more to the Kings then Jacksons defensive game.
I'm a defense first guy aswell, we might already have our Jackson in Giles.
I wouldn't mind Bagley, but if he never figures out defense, you're looking at a 20/10 empty stats kinda guy, leading a treadmill team.
If Vlade thinks he can pair him with WCS or Giles to cover his weakness, then I reckon he'll pull the trigger. But Giles is an unknown and WCS as a defensive anchor seems like a long shot at this point in his lackadaisical career.
I'm still on "team Doncic". That kid is going to be some kinda power point forward. Totally unique.
If Vlade thinks he can pair him with WCS or Giles to cover his weakness, then I reckon he'll pull the trigger. But Giles is an unknown and WCS as a defensive anchor seems like a long shot at this point in his lackadaisical career.
I'm still on "team Doncic". That kid is going to be some kinda power point forward. Totally unique.
That's good to hear, but how did he 'fall' to us 4th overall......I don't remember that even though I was following the draft at the time.
Bagley seems like Griffin at best (just from reading these threads). His ceiling is empty stats that will get a max deal, but you can't win around. Give me Doncic or Ayton please and Hope that Giles and WCS can figure it out.
Bagley seems like Griffin at best (just from reading these threads). His ceiling is empty stats that will get a max deal, but you can't win around. Give me Doncic or Ayton please and Hope that Giles and WCS can figure it out.
I agree about Bagley being potentially a #1 scoring threat and top 10 rebounder. And I also agree about Giles. The Kings' org should know much more about Giles than we do, and maybe some of their draft decision is based upon how they see Giles' strengths and weaknesses. My fondness for Jackson is due to his potential of being a very good defensive and offensive player. I just have this feeling we have seen just a little bit of what he will eventually do on the offensive end. I'm still fence sitting for the time being.
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