Maloofs on TNT

[playmaker0017]

We have one bona-fide 20 ppg scorer(besides Artest) and thats Mike at 21+.

Artest isn't a bonafide 20PPG guy ... he's never hit 20PPG. He hovers.

As for Bibby -- this is a career year and he's doing it on sheer volume shooting. 17 shots a game! 17! That's a lot of shots.

There is no one on this team that will break that mark besides those two trust me.

Well, not now ... heck, it'll never happen as long as Bibby is hogging the ball.

 

[thesanityannex]

I don't think this has to turn into a Mike's great/Reef sucks argument. Shareef has played very well this year. He has shortcomings that everyone is well aware of. Mike has had an up and down year, and lately is way up. He has shortcomings that everyone is well aware of. No need to tear one player down to build the other one up.

I'd like to see Reef play with the new lineup and when he's healthy. Then let's talk about what he can and can't do.

Agreed. I'm not dissing Reef at all. With him playing through this injury, I've gained even more respect for him. I just don't think he is the impact player that Play007 is making him out to be.

 

[KP]

[SIZE=-1]

I know people have a sentimental attachment to Bibby/Miller (sort of like I've got for Reef) and have never gotten to see Reef be Reef ... but he didn't score 20+PPG in every season of his career before Portland by some fluke.
[/SIZE]

And the fact that he has been unable to even approach 20 for 4 years now is no fluke either.

 

[KP]

Well, not now ... heck, it'll never happen as long as Bibby is hogging the ball.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . Allright I quit, agree to disagree.

 

[thesanityannex]

As for Bibby -- this is a career year and he's doing it on sheer volume shooting. 17 shots a game! 17! That's a lot of shots.
.

Ask Kobe Bryant if he thinks thats a lot of shots.

 

[playmaker0017]

I do not know that Reef is what he once was.

I tend to agree with this. As we discussed before, I think he's lost a lot of drive from the losing.

And I really don't know if Reef is a major player on a good team. He has all the impact of a wet sock. Gets his points and means absolutely nothing.[/quote]

That's true. But, so does Tim Duncan (not comparing them as players).

On the other hand Reef's had the better overall career statistically, but he may be on a one-way boat to irrelevancy.

Truer words have never been spoken, but I still don't believe that he wouldn't score if we gave him the ball in the post and said work. I also don't believe that it equates to losing.

 

[GoGoGadget]

no question

seams like we get something like this every year

BTW - who is next ?

Well, in Mike's interview this morning on "Cold Pizza," he did mention that he hoped to retire a Sacramento King.

I almost expected the ominous "dun dun DUN" music cue in the background.

 

[KP]

Well, in Mike's interview this morning on "Cold Pizza," he did mention that he hoped to retire a Sacramento King.

I almost expected the ominous "dun dun DUN" music cue in the background.

Well he's finished.

 

[acisking]

2) Reef

Our best scorers are Artest and Reef. Reef, no matter your thoughts on him, is a bonifide 20PPG guy. Has been EVERY year he's been in the league and taken more than 15 shots. Artest has become quite good over the few years.

Playmaker, while I respect your loyalty to Shareef, I really don't see any evidence to say that Shareef (before the jaw injury) was even the third best scoring option, much less better than Bibby. Nor do I feel that he should be a greater focal point on the offensive end since with the arrival of Artest and the return of Bonzi, he will have to play the complementary role.

 

[playmaker0017]

And the fact that he has been unable to even approach 20 for 4 years now is no fluke either.

4 years?

2003-4: he scored 20.1 on 15 shots as a starter in Atlanta. I discount Portland's benching because there isn't much he could do from there. Efficient and above 20.

2004-5: 17PPG as a third option on 12 shots. Still seems likely he'd have gotten 20 if he had a few more shots.

2005-6: 16PPG on 11 shots (including games with a broken jaw and scoring 3). Seems likely he'd score 20 if he had a few more shots.

I don't think Reef's ability was somehow drained and Bibby has all-of-a-sudden peaked ... Bibby is just hot over the past 10 games and is becoming a volume shooter.

 

[thesanityannex]

Playmaker-

Do you ever think of why Reef isn't the first option on his past/present teams?

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't think this has to turn into a Mike's great/Reef sucks argument. Shareef has played very well this year. He has shortcomings that everyone is well aware of. Mike has had an up and down year, and lately is way up. He has shortcomings that everyone is well aware of. No need to tear one player down to build the other one up.

I'd like to see Reef play with the new lineup and when he's healthy. Then let's talk about what he can and can't do.

Reef has not played particularly well this year, and by his own standards (not mine) has pretty much sucked. One of if not his worst years.

Now I don't think that's all about him, as the team is unbalanced. But 16pts 6rebs is pretty weak, and there are 50 guys in the league who could do that for you. Theoretically there should be no comparison between he and a Kenny Thomas level player, but Kenny as a starter is 13.1pts 9.7rebs and very much in the ballpark. And unfortunately the ballpark is titled " Lottery Starting PF".

"Efficient" can be another way of saying "ineffectual". And much like Peja, you have to wonder if he still has it. Or really if he ever had it. Early in his career he drew a lot of oohs and aahs with the pretty spinning post game. But he never won anything, and may never have had the spark. And its been years since he mattered at even that level. Been in the league a long time. Might be wearing down, mentally or physically. Either way, not an impact player at this point.

 

[playmaker0017]

Playmaker, while I respect your loyalty to Shareef, I really don't see any evidence to say that Shareef (before the jaw injury) was even the third best scoring option, much less better than Bibby.

How much evidence do you need?

Highest scoring average? Reef.
Most above 20PPG seasons? Reef.
Highest free throw line attempts per season? Reef.

This season was scoring at a 1.5 points per shot clip ... he was EASILY the most efficient weapon we had.

At the beginning of the season - Peja was off. Bibby was off. Reef was still 4th on the team in shots.

It's not his fault he isn't getting the ball.

 

[KP]

4 years?

My bad, can't read.

 

[piksi]

Well, in Mike's interview this morning on "Cold Pizza," he did mention that he hoped to retire a Sacramento King.

I almost expected the ominous "dun dun DUN" music cue in the background.

oh boy

 

[playmaker0017]

Now I don't think that's all about him, as the team is unbalanced. But 16pts 6rebs is pretty weak, and there are 50 guys in the league who could do that for you.

That's true. But, I bet most of them can't do it on 10-11 shots per game.

I'll grant you the rebounds, but in his defense his back WAS hurting and he was playing through it as best he could. But, it's still no excuse. The only admirable thing there is that he wasn't allowing his man to get the board.

 

[KP]

Bibby vs. Reef is even a debate at this point? How bout Kenny vs. Reef ? How bout wins and losses and making your teamates better, how bout starting and making an impact... in this year. How bout grabbing a rebound when it's one of the biggest weaknesses on the team?

 

[playmaker0017]

I'm off to bed.

Been fun.

For the record:

I'm not saying Reef is the best ever or anything. I think Bibby is a great shooter.

Both Reef and Bibby have talent. You guys have watched Bibby for years and respect what he brings because you've seen the good. But, don't be blind to the fact that Reef is a legit talent. He's a far better defender than people give him credit for and he still has a knack around the basket.

Give him the ball and we are having a different discussion. So far he's been underutilized.

I WANT this team to win and I WANT Reef to be a part of that success.

 

[nbrans]

Reef has not played particularly well this year, and by his own standards (not mine) has pretty much sucked. One of if not his worst years.

Now I don't think that's all about him, as the team is unbalanced. But 16pts 6rebs is pretty weak, and there are 50 guys in the league who could do that for you. Theoretically there should be no comparison between he and a Kenny Thomas level player, but Kenny as a starter is 13.1pts 9.7rebs and very much in the ballpark. And unfortunately the ballpark is titled " Lottery Starting PF".

"Efficient" can be another way of saying "ineffectual". And much like Peja, you have to wonder if he still has it. Or really if he ever had it. Early in his career he drew a lot of oohs and aahs with the pretty spinning post game. But he never won anything, and may never have had the spark. And its been years since he mattered at even that level. Been in the league a long time. Might be wearing down, mentally or physically. Either way, not an impact player at this point.

Brick, as playmaker pointed out, 16 points on 55% shooting (before coming back from injury) is not something that 50 players in the league can give you. In fact it's something that only five or six players in the league can give you. Not to mention that he's playing well-above average man defense and had some awesome defensive games against top players. And maybe, come playoff time if that time does come, you'd be content with a jump shooting power forward -- I'd rather have someone who, when the defense tightens up, can get a high percentage shot.

 

[bibbyweb]

no question

seams like we get something like this every year

BTW - who is next ?

more importantly, who's left?