Malone fired

ShastaKingsFan said:
I believe Corbin has a better all around feel for in game action and will certainly help our offense and player rotations. I'm on board with George Karl as well, if that's who they're really wanting.
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You say that now but those things are pretty much what got Corbin fired by the Jazz.
 
andremiller07 said:
I don't get why everyone is turning on DC, why would you trade a guy on a great deal/who's excellent for team chemistry and has helped us win? DC to me other than Cousins has been our best 2 way player, the dude has gone up against elite PGs and held his own both ends.

Unless we are getting a legit all star level talent or a serious upgrade you don't trade away guys on good deals like JT/DC. If it were Landry sure or Derrick Williams but people are quick to forget how good DC truely was before his injury and Cousins going out.
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Well to be fair, he plays way too much defense for basketball 3.0.
 
Darren hasn't been a problem. Having to play Darren 38 minutes because Sessions has been bad is a problem. Not playing Ray instead is on the Coach, but I think he feared the inexperienced backcourt of Ray and Stauskas. Nik not hitting open shots isn't on the coach. Malone encouraged Nik to shoot. He wanted Nik to shoot more. That's really just a young player not having success. The problem is then having no third guard to rely on and that's a PDA mistake.
 
uolj said:
I have to admit, I was really annoyed when I found out about this and I don't think it will be a positive in the long run. But after going so far as contemplating reducing what limited time I have allotted to Kings fandom, I now feel like I at least see the thinking behind the move (especially after reading Amick's latest piece).

It almost sounds like they're really trying to implement a david strategy. Do something different and novel in the hopes that it makes up for your disadvantages and helps you beat the "better" teams. I expect they expect a lot of backlash on those novel ideas, so I doubt the unhappiness of the fan base will matter. And in some sense they're right, people are almost always averse to new and innovative, so if you think you have the right idea you have to do it despite the reaction (to a point obviously).

But the bottom line here is that I just don't think they have the right idea, and certainly not with somebody like Cousins on the roster. When you have Cousins turning in performances that put him in the MVP discussion, it's not the time for trying novel ideas.

In other words, you don't use David strategies when you have Goliath on your team.
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Very true. I see that if George Karl becomes head coach, it may benefit us for a few seasons, but not a lot of seasons. I saw Malone as staying for all of DMC's career -- and based on their relationship, it was very, very possible. Malone was our long-term solution.

That's why my faith in the FO is at an all-time low; they operate on the perspective that basketball is a purely objective sport, when it actually isn't. They failed to see the possible future where the DeMarcus and Malone duo would reign the Kings for 10+ years, similar to how Duncan and Pop ruled the Spurs. (note: the FO wants to emulate the Spurs!)
 
Karl sort of has to be the hire because it's the only way they salvage this. Everything up until that next point in the process is for show and rather annoying to me as a fan. I don't aim to demean Ty Corbin. I just know that if Malone wasn't as liberal with ideas as the management wanted then I doubt Corbin will be enough to satisfy them.

Karl will be hired, try for breaking the coaching wins record, and then ultimately get tired of meddlesome ownership as well. Team will peak at a first round playoff exit and then be back to nowhere-ville.

In the back of many fans minds, I think that's the future they see.
 
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Has Geroge Karl ever had a offensive skilled big man to coach? All his success I can't think of one skilled a 20/10 non spoon feed big man who you run the offense through., Shawn Kemp was nothing like Cousins, in Karls Milwaukee Bucks days it was all about Ray Allen/Cassell/Glenn Robinson (I think there big man was Ervin Johnson). In Denver in was defensive minded/athletic Camby/Koufos/McGee/Faried. The closest thing I can think of is Nene and he was a afterthought and they tried to replace him somewhat with a less skilled big man in Kenyon Martin.

I could be wrong cause I have not followed his whole career but on all of Karl's really successful teams he's never ran at offense through a big man.
 
andremiller07 said:
Has Geroge Karl ever had a offensive skilled big man to coach? All his success I can't think of one skilled a 20/10 non spoon feed big man who you run the offense through., Shawn Kemp was nothing like Cousins, in Karls Milwaukee Bucks days it was all about Ray Allen/Cassell/Glenn Robinson (I think there big man was Ervin Johnson). In Denver in was defensive minded/athletic Camby/Koufos/McGee/Faried. The closest thing I can think of is Nene and he was a afterthought and they tried to replace him somewhat with a less skilled big man in Kenyon Martin.

I could be wrong cause I have not followed his whole career but on all of Karl's really successful teams he's never ran at offense through a big man.
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nene?
 
kingwin said:
does nene count as an offensive skilled big man?
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Nene has some of the best post game and passing of any big man in the NBA but my point is they never even ran the offense through him, I only used him cause I could not think of anyone else on his team's that he had that was similar to Cousins in size/mobility/skill.
 
andremiller07 said:
I don't get why everyone is turning on DC, why would you trade a guy on a great deal/who's excellent for team chemistry and has helped us win? DC to me other than Cousins has been our best 2 way player, the dude has gone up against elite PGs and held his own both ends.

Unless we are getting a legit all star level talent or a serious upgrade you don't trade away guys on good deals like JT/DC. If it were Landry sure or Derrick Williams but people are quick to forget how good DC truely was before his injury and Cousins going out.
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If we get some weird opportunity to upgrade at PG, why not do it? The only untouchable on our team is Cousins. This FO seems like they want to build a high tempo type of offense, that means we need players of different skill sets.
 
andremiller07 said:
Nene has some of the best post game and passing of any big man in the NBA but my point is they never even ran the offense through him, I only used him cause I could not think of anyone else on his team's that he had that was similar to Cousins in size/mobility/skill.
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my bad didnt read your whole post...jus read the list of names and thought you forgot him..
 
andremiller07 said:
Nene has some of the best post game and passing of any big man in the NBA but my point is they never even ran the offense through him, I only used him cause I could not think of anyone else on his team's that he had that was similar to Cousins in size/mobility/skill.
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Although how many players in the last couple decades are really similar to Cousins? That list of players and men who have coached them, is extremely small
 
andremiller07 said:
Why would we try something different to what's clearly working and that's letting Cousins/Gay hammer the opposition inside and wear them out. There's a big difference taking advantage of leak outs and pushing to get easy points and playing more uptempo.

While Cousins is super talented and can obviously adjust he's having a career year playing strictly half court basketball and he's stopped for the most part attempting to run fast breaks which is a great thing.
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I don't think the plan wants to take away our advantage in having Cousins/Gay hammer the opposition inside and wear them out. Obviously, since casual fans knows about that advantage the Kings management/coaching staff surely knows that as well. Its like basketball 101.

And here is another good answer to the question.
Section 101 said:
your assuming they will be putting up the shot before Cuz runs up the court. Yes they could have more shots early, but it doesn't mean Cuz still doesn't get his in the half court. You can't run every single time.
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OK I just listened to PDA's interview with Grant and it is terrifying.

"Everyone can run, it's just a mindset."

No, it's pretty much the opposite of a mindset and much closer to a physical limitation (Hi, Sim). At the same time he has effusive praise for the team's "best player," DeMarcus Cousins, who he wants to place in a run n' gun offense despite his dominance as the best half-court center in the league. In other news, Bill Belichick is starting Tom Brady at defensive end, because rushing the QB is just a mindset.

PDA wants to 'go back to the old days of Vlade and Peja and not focus on defense so much.' As someone who analyzes copious reams of "data" surely he is aware that the Kings' defense in the glory years was among the best in the league, and was the source of their fast-break opportunities. Even so, Sacramento was not primarily a running team, but a team with flawless half-court execution, with two big men who possessed twice-in-a-generation passing skills setting screens for a once-in-a-generation shooter, running an offense based on half-court off-ball movement that scored without the necessity of dribbling.

Damn that Malone for filling the players' heads with all that "Defense" nonsense, leading the league in aggressiveness (FT attempts), holding opponents below their shooting percentages, and achieving a W-L record no one thought possible! What we need is MORE DUNKS.

“It wasn’t about wins and losses,” D’Alessandro said Monday. “I don’t really care what our record was. It’s really about who we want to be, what we want our identity to be as a team [of middle-school girls.]"

I'm done. Was willing to give the benefit of the doubt on anything but this idiocy. Gru must go.
~~
 
rainmaker said:
I'm sorry, but that's a gross misrepresentation of the dialogue around here. Yeah 2-3 posters would say a loss was 100% Malone's fault, but you just lumped everyone else who made sound arguments and broke down their criticism into that group.

Everybody? I think you fully know that's completely insincere and I'm shocked an MOD is attempting to bait others in that fashion while insulting a number of posters here who regularly take their time to explain their point of view.

That's not why Malone was fired either. Everything we've heard suggests it started this summer with a call to Alvin Gentry.

And please, don't respond with "this is just my opinion". You just launched accusations. You just lumped an entire forum altogether.
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KABOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM

lumped me in that group when i'm not-

she's doing her part to try to keep the forum posters positive as usual when it's pretty ugly. no need to sugar coat it. they did a dirty deed. all the facts are surfacing how they went about it.

if they didn't feel he was the one to take them to the next level should've let him go in the offseason and bring in whoever the hell wants to run their system of run and gun, 4 on 5, position-less bulls***.
 
Finally got through all the posts. Didn't come in earlier, because I was just so depressed by the news.

I think this was handled about as badly as possible. I think at this point, they should have let Malone finish out the season. I am so sick of the coaching carousel. We need stability.

I fervently wish Vivek would stick to the business side of things and leave basketball to people who know basketball. If you really surround yourself with people smarter than you, then be a smart boss and get out of their way. Let them do what they are good at. (I'm beginning to question whether you really think anybody is smarter than you, about anything.)

Having said that, there is no way in hell that Vivek is worse than the Maloofs. I was heavily involved in the fight to keep the Kings in Sacramento. The Maloofs were lying, loathsome, stupid owners. They bought the team to move it, period.

And it just really bothers me that our front office keeps saying such contradictory and confused things about what they want to do. It was about wins and losses this year, until suddenly it isn't.

I don't think I'm making sense right now, so I should just quit now.

Oh, and I'm really ticked off that I was so looking forward to going to the game tomorrow for Peja's jersey retirement. Seeing players I loved as Kings. Now it's likely going to be spoiled for Peja, his family, his teammates and the fans.

Thanks FO. Merry F'n Christmas to you, too.
 
Edit-

I wrote something fairly negative.

However, must concede I have no knowledge of the Kings organisation beyond headlines and power rankings.

I don't necessarily support the high turnover of coaches and believe the timing of this move is disappointing. Hopefully the Kings can get their game together and move forward. I am sure Malone, at the very least, will be able to obtain work as an assistant coach.
 
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We will never attract players if we aren't a winning product, or have hope to be such. It has long been our bane. Hell, CWebb was dragged here kicking and screaming. This is our reality. Coaches get fired a lot in the NBA and yes, it is unsettling, it is painful. There is sadness, there is loss. It's all about winning, and, granted, we haven't had a leadership group that cared a rats behind about winning in forever, but we do now,
 
Kingsgurl said:
We will never attract players if we aren't a winning product, or have hope to be such. It has long been our bane. Hell, CWebb was dragged here kicking and screaming. This is our reality. Coaches get fired a lot in the NBA and yes, it is unsettling, it is painful. There is sadness, there is loss. It's all about winning, and, granted, we haven't had a leadership group that cared a rats behind about winning in forever, but we do now,
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You've said this a couple if times now so I wonder if you are aware that PDA stated today that it wasn't about wins so much as style and philosophy. Still sticking to that line?
 
uolj said:
I have to admit, I was really annoyed when I found out about this and I don't think it will be a positive in the long run. But after going so far as contemplating reducing what limited time I have allotted to Kings fandom, I now feel like I at least see the thinking behind the move (especially after reading Amick's latest piece).

It almost sounds like they're really trying to implement a david strategy. Do something different and novel in the hopes that it makes up for your disadvantages and helps you beat the "better" teams. I expect they expect a lot of backlash on those novel ideas, so I doubt the unhappiness of the fan base will matter. And in some sense they're right, people are almost always averse to new and innovative, so if you think you have the right idea you have to do it despite the reaction (to a point obviously).

But the bottom line here is that I just don't think they have the right idea, and certainly not with somebody like Cousins on the roster. When you have Cousins turning in performances that put him in the MVP discussion, it's not the time for trying novel ideas.

In other words, you don't use David strategies when you have Goliath on your team.
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I get where you're going with this, and that does seem to be the kind of thinking that is coming out of this front office -- innovation is the buzz word. What can we do that is revolutionary? That no one else has thought of before? I just don't see the point. Why do we need to reinvent the wheel? I can see why Malone wasn't on board with that approach. He's as old-school as you can get, a coach's son, a guy who wants active defense on every possession and grind-it-out, run the clock offense. He probably got tired of the constant pestering about trying out these NBA 3.0 ideas and stopped indulging their inquiries with feigned interest: "Just let me do my job already."

Regarding his apparent disagreements with the front office ... extending Cousins before last season was a gamble that paid off. I wasn't on board with a Rudy Gay extension either before this season -- he's a gifted scorer who works primarily in the mid-range and doesn't defend particularly well. That's a useful building block but not something you bet the farm on. I certainly did agree with the Collison for Thomas exchange, not sure what to say there. It's hardly damnable though. One party has gotten a chance to tell their side of the story and rake the mud where they believe it belongs. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle. And anyway, in most professions, caution isn't considered a liability...

But here's the thing -- Malone's offense was working. With Cousins and Gay we have two elite scorers who know how to get to the free throw line 9 times a game. Malone's "rebounds and free throws" system was killing everyone early in the season. The trend across the league is floor spacing, 3pt shooting, stretch 4's, centers who are really PFs. Why follow the trend? I feel like we had a decided advantage because other teams just weren't used to playing with that level of physicality anymore.

The irony of the situation is that regardless of who made the personnel decisions, Malone was making them look good. He turned Ben McLemore into a solid defender, limited the amount of offense Darren Collison was required to create on his own, gave JT a role he could hang his hat on, and maximized the impact of Cousins and Gay by feeding them the ball and letting them beat double teams. We were losing because the bench was a disaster and you know what? Sessions, Stauskas, Casspi, and Hollins are all new acquisitions and Landry didn't play last season. That's most of your bench right there. Malone worked with the starting unit until he got them to play his style. We couldn't give him a couple months to try and integrate all these new players on the bench too? Apparently not.

It was miscalculation on Vivek's part to hire a back-to-basics coach and then bring in a front office that wasn't ever going to agree with that. That mistake has cost us a year of development time, possibly two years, as this group is now going to have to start over with a different coach and a different system. And I think it's a further miscalculation to force an uptempo style onto a group of players that's ideally suited for a more methodical approach. We'll see where they go from here but it's hard for me to have confidence in a front office who couldn't see that Malone's approach was the right one for this group of players.
 
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kennadog said:
Finally got through all the posts. Didn't come in earlier, because I was just so depressed by the news.

I think this was handled about as badly as possible. I think at this point, they should have let Malone finish out the season. I am so sick of the coaching carousel. We need stability.

I fervently wish Vivek would stick to the business side of things and leave basketball to people who know basketball. If you really surround yourself with people smarter than you, then be a smart boss and get out of their way. Let them do what they are good at. (I'm beginning to question whether you really think anybody is smarter than you, about anything.)

Having said that, there is no way in hell that Vivek is worse than the Maloofs. I was heavily involved in the fight to keep the Kings in Sacramento. The Maloofs were lying, loathsome, stupid owners. They bought the team to move it, period.

And it just really bothers me that our front office keeps saying such contradictory and confused things about what they want to do. It was about wins and losses this year, until suddenly it isn't.

I don't think I'm making sense right now, so I should just quit now.

Oh, and I'm really ticked off that I was so looking forward to going to the game tomorrow for Peja's jersey retirement. Seeing players I loved as Kings. Now it's likely going to be spoiled for Peja, his family, his teammates and the fans.

Thanks FO. Merry F'n Christmas to you, too.
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You're making sense -- I agree with all of it. It's an unfortunate situation. Whenever everybody thinks they're right in an organization, somebody is going to be the odd one out and Malone was the one with the least power. He wasn't doing a bad job, he just clashed with management and like usual it was "my way or the highway". But you're right, over-eager owners and inexperienced GMs punching above their weight is an entirely different class of problem than an ownership group who actively sabotaged any attempt to commit long-term to staying in Sacramento. It's a roller coaster ride as a fan, and not an entirely pleasant one, but that's sortof what you sign up for when you invest your emotions in a professional sports team. You're going to be taken places you don't want to go -- the hope is that it's somehow worth it in the end. We know Sacramento fans are a passionate lot, prone to outbursts of emotion which at times can be short-sighted. But I don't think they're overly malicious. Peja is going to get a royal welcome tomorrow regardless, I'm sure of it. Nothing that happened today diminished the mystique of those past Kings teams. Maybe this makes us appreciate it even more. :)
 
sdballer said:
You've said this a couple if times now so I wonder if you are aware that PDA stated today that it wasn't about wins so much as style and philosophy. Still sticking to that line?
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There's room for multiple points of view on this. For what it's worth, I don't think Vivek or PDA are bad guys. Pete in particular seems to be quite genuine in believing this was the best thing for the future of the team. He never would have picked Malone to be his coach in the first place. Vivek might not have either if he'd spent the summer consulting with Pete first. The power struggle involved was whether Pete's fresh new perspective or Malone's tried-and-true old school one would win Vivek's favor. He laid the groundwork for what just happened by hiring each of them individually. And it's not surprising Vivek went with the flashier approach either. Most inexperienced sports owners would. It's fool's gold of course, but some lessons can only be learned the hard way. This rebuild will go wherever it goes and then there'll be another one and sooner or later ownership will catch on. I feel bad for the players though. They were assembled over the past year with the promise of a nice pleasant Atlantic voyage and an enormous iceberg just appeared on the horizon.
 
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