Malone fired
- Thread starter fursty13
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I'm shocked that you continue to use the MOD strawman argument. I am not arguing as a moderator, which you know quite well. I am arguing as a passionate fan of the team. I didn't insult anyone; if you're insulted that's on you.
As far as my first word goes, your proclivity for nitpicking continues to astound. There were over 1200 posts in this thread before I added my comment tonight. I think I'm as entitled to my comments as anyone else - as a fan and a member of this august body. My post was not intended to bait, it was intended to do exactly what it did - make a statement about my perception of what's been going on. I made no personal accusations of any kind, but you know that.
Have a nice evening, rainmaker. If you want to continue this personal discussion with me, we can certainly do it via a conversation.
As far as my first word goes, your proclivity for nitpicking continues to astound. There were over 1200 posts in this thread before I added my comment tonight. I think I'm as entitled to my comments as anyone else - as a fan and a member of this august body. My post was not intended to bait, it was intended to do exactly what it did - make a statement about my perception of what's been going on. I made no personal accusations of any kind, but you know that.
Have a nice evening, rainmaker. If you want to continue this personal discussion with me, we can certainly do it via a conversation.
Well, you don't see any coach or GM discussing what type or brand of defense they want to run for their team. All they talk about is what type of offense they want to institute like princeton, triangle offense, uptempo, fast pace, run and gun, a combination, and so on.
Have you heard of anybody in the NBA discussing or planning a brand of defense to be run by the team?
Never.
Because they all tailor their defense from game-to-game to whatever offense the other team gives you. So, these things about defense seldom get into discussion during set interviews.
Also, as far as I can remember the FO has acknowledged many times that we need a shot blocker/defensive big. Apparently, they could not get one because as some fans here say nobody wants to go to our stinking cowbell town. So for now, the FO have to settle for Moreland who Malone refused to give meaningful minutes.
Have you heard of anybody in the NBA discussing or planning a brand of defense to be run by the team?
Never.
Because they all tailor their defense from game-to-game to whatever offense the other team gives you. So, these things about defense seldom get into discussion during set interviews.
Also, as far as I can remember the FO has acknowledged many times that we need a shot blocker/defensive big. Apparently, they could not get one because as some fans here say nobody wants to go to our stinking cowbell town. So for now, the FO have to settle for Moreland who Malone refused to give meaningful minutes.
I was bothered by a lot of the things Malone did. Rotations, playing Sessions, bad plays in crunch time, small ball lineups, slow to make adjustments, not running off ball screens to get guys like Ben/Nik open for shots.
with that said, i found this firing shocking. out of nowhere, and crazy. But i am not really against the team making a change at coaching. i just find the way they went about it to be strange, and the timing as well.
Now what REALLY concerns me, is the crazy talk about wanting to be fast paced and exciting. How does that make sense when DeMarcus Cousins is our best player? The style of play should be built around him. Where is Pete getting the idea that Kings fans just care about watching an exciting team? i want to watch a winning team damnit. and the 4 on 5 defense, what in the world?
all in all, i think Vivek needs to take a step back. Stop thinking he's going to come up with some amazing new idea that is the future of basketball. and stay out of the basketball operations
with that said, i found this firing shocking. out of nowhere, and crazy. But i am not really against the team making a change at coaching. i just find the way they went about it to be strange, and the timing as well.
Now what REALLY concerns me, is the crazy talk about wanting to be fast paced and exciting. How does that make sense when DeMarcus Cousins is our best player? The style of play should be built around him. Where is Pete getting the idea that Kings fans just care about watching an exciting team? i want to watch a winning team damnit. and the 4 on 5 defense, what in the world?
all in all, i think Vivek needs to take a step back. Stop thinking he's going to come up with some amazing new idea that is the future of basketball. and stay out of the basketball operations
I don't believe Pete when he tells Amick that Malone wasn't on board with Gay and DMC signings. I think Pete is lying about that. Yep, lying. I hear Pete trying to craft a story about how he has made "hard calls" that have turned out to be good. i.e. DMC extension. So to dress this up, he needs to make the DMC extension look like some bold stroke when it fact it was a no brainer. Trying to position Malone on the wrong side of that is just more sleeze from the Rodent.
If Pete stops lying, I'll stop calling him a liar. But lets hear him spin/deny the Alvin Gentry part. Lets have him explain whether wins matter or not (he does sure find himself all tangled up in that twisted web of BS doesn't he). Has he yet explained why he didn't make the move in the off-season? And I can't wait till he is explaining what he REALLY meant when he said Ty Corbin has the support of the organization... that should be good for a grim laugh.
He is not honest.
If Pete stops lying, I'll stop calling him a liar. But lets hear him spin/deny the Alvin Gentry part. Lets have him explain whether wins matter or not (he does sure find himself all tangled up in that twisted web of BS doesn't he). Has he yet explained why he didn't make the move in the off-season? And I can't wait till he is explaining what he REALLY meant when he said Ty Corbin has the support of the organization... that should be good for a grim laugh.
He is not honest.
David Thorpe did make some good points in his Truehoop podcast. Basically said Cuz is ideal for more running since he's a top rebounder and can push the ball off rebounds himself too. DC, Ben, Gay and DWill can run the floor off of Cuz's outlet passes.
Which goes back the early 2000 Kings. The change from the 10 second to 8 second half court violation was due to the Kings uptempo style. Those teams pushed the ball, but that didn't mean early shots. It was to put pressure on the defenses with ball movement to get them out of position. The sooner you get into the offense the more time you have for the defense to make a mistake.
Which goes back the early 2000 Kings. The change from the 10 second to 8 second half court violation was due to the Kings uptempo style. Those teams pushed the ball, but that didn't mean early shots. It was to put pressure on the defenses with ball movement to get them out of position. The sooner you get into the offense the more time you have for the defense to make a mistake.
Oh the irony. Pop installing himself as head coach is the closest parallel to this situation I can think of.
Malone is a good coach, but it's also fairly obvious in sports that a stable and healthy relationship between your coach and FO is key to long term success. And Pop got that by firing his rival - his coach - at an opportunistic time.
Malone is a good coach, but it's also fairly obvious in sports that a stable and healthy relationship between your coach and FO is key to long term success. And Pop got that by firing his rival - his coach - at an opportunistic time.
The problem with using DMC as the Wes Unseld of today's league is twofold:
1: He's arguably the best center in the league offensively in the halfcourt. With his ability to hit the outside jumper, set screens and roll, take guys off the dribble, hit the open man, and post up high or low, very few can match up well with him which makes him a top offensive weapon in a halfcourt set. The kings were leading the league in FT's attempted per game, and he's a big reason. Putting a team in the penalty because they can't guard the big man is a huge advantage.
2. His tremendous rebounding is due to his ability to grab offensive boards, and with a team that doesn't shoot that well from outside, it makes it even more important. Using him to spark the break with outlet passing nullifies this. Teams that are exciting and successful with that style are such because THEY MAKE SHOTS, something this team is not currently going to be doing anytime soon.
Overall, our talent pool is not great, and our best player is a power center, and that means that the slower the pace is, the fewer possessions opponents have, the better our chances are to WIN GAMES AND MAKE THE PLAYOFFS, something the Kings could have done this season, and still might, with the 8th spot. This team is not built around fast paced basketball, and making DMC into Wes for rebouding and outlet passing is eliminating the benefits of the one of the rarer talents in the entire league.
1: He's arguably the best center in the league offensively in the halfcourt. With his ability to hit the outside jumper, set screens and roll, take guys off the dribble, hit the open man, and post up high or low, very few can match up well with him which makes him a top offensive weapon in a halfcourt set. The kings were leading the league in FT's attempted per game, and he's a big reason. Putting a team in the penalty because they can't guard the big man is a huge advantage.
2. His tremendous rebounding is due to his ability to grab offensive boards, and with a team that doesn't shoot that well from outside, it makes it even more important. Using him to spark the break with outlet passing nullifies this. Teams that are exciting and successful with that style are such because THEY MAKE SHOTS, something this team is not currently going to be doing anytime soon.
Overall, our talent pool is not great, and our best player is a power center, and that means that the slower the pace is, the fewer possessions opponents have, the better our chances are to WIN GAMES AND MAKE THE PLAYOFFS, something the Kings could have done this season, and still might, with the 8th spot. This team is not built around fast paced basketball, and making DMC into Wes for rebouding and outlet passing is eliminating the benefits of the one of the rarer talents in the entire league.
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Ok mommmmm.
lol
lol
What the what? Even if a team doesn't talk about the specific style of d they want to play, many, many FO talk about defense. About it being a priority. About how they plan on addressing shortfalls. Etc.
Ours talks offense, offense, offense. And not just offense but a particular brand of offense that not only doesn't suit our star but also doesn't suit the very pieces they acquired. And that they are now firing a coach for not being able to install an offense that didn't fit.
How is this even a debate.
Ours talks offense, offense, offense. And not just offense but a particular brand of offense that not only doesn't suit our star but also doesn't suit the very pieces they acquired. And that they are now firing a coach for not being able to install an offense that didn't fit.
How is this even a debate.
I have to admit, I was really annoyed when I found out about this and I don't think it will be a positive in the long run. But after going so far as contemplating reducing what limited time I have allotted to Kings fandom, I now feel like I at least see the thinking behind the move (especially after reading Amick's latest piece).
It almost sounds like they're really trying to implement a david strategy. Do something different and novel in the hopes that it makes up for your disadvantages and helps you beat the "better" teams. I expect they expect a lot of backlash on those novel ideas, so I doubt the unhappiness of the fan base will matter. And in some sense they're right, people are almost always averse to new and innovative, so if you think you have the right idea you have to do it despite the reaction (to a point obviously).
But the bottom line here is that I just don't think they have the right idea, and certainly not with somebody like Cousins on the roster. When you have Cousins turning in performances that put him in the MVP discussion, it's not the time for trying novel ideas.
In other words, you don't use David strategies when you have Goliath on your team.
It almost sounds like they're really trying to implement a david strategy. Do something different and novel in the hopes that it makes up for your disadvantages and helps you beat the "better" teams. I expect they expect a lot of backlash on those novel ideas, so I doubt the unhappiness of the fan base will matter. And in some sense they're right, people are almost always averse to new and innovative, so if you think you have the right idea you have to do it despite the reaction (to a point obviously).
But the bottom line here is that I just don't think they have the right idea, and certainly not with somebody like Cousins on the roster. When you have Cousins turning in performances that put him in the MVP discussion, it's not the time for trying novel ideas.
In other words, you don't use David strategies when you have Goliath on your team.
People against the fast pace uptempo brand of basketball thought that the uptempo game can be instituted or will be used ALL THE TIME. It is as if every ball possession will be on a fast break and even during times the opponent makes a basket. It has never been done this way because when the other team makes a basket, the other team will be able to get back for defense thereby forcing you to play a half-court set. If the other team is a high school team and your team is an NBA team, yes you can use a fast pace uptempo game ALL THE TIME which render Cousins ineffective or tire him.
The beauty of the uptempo fast paced offense for any team is that other players can get involved in the offense - not just Cousins and Gay. During times the other team makes a basket (which is about 30-45% of the time), then we can use the half court set for Cousins and Gay to do their thing.
The beauty of the uptempo fast paced offense for any team is that other players can get involved in the offense - not just Cousins and Gay. During times the other team makes a basket (which is about 30-45% of the time), then we can use the half court set for Cousins and Gay to do their thing.
K
We have tried in the past to push the ball have we not? The only time in Cousins 5 years here we have had success is the year (this year) we played straight up smash mouth basketball. Also by attempting to play faster we will weaken the defense at the PF position (by going small and getting either Smith or Faired or whoever) which is not a good thing.
Why would we try something different to what's clearly working and that's letting Cousins/Gay hammer the opposition inside and wear them out. There's a big difference taking advantage of leak outs and pushing to get easy points and playing more uptempo.
While Cousins is super talented and can obviously adjust he's having a career year playing strictly half court basketball and he's stopped for the most part attempting to run fast breaks which is a great thing.
Why would we try something different to what's clearly working and that's letting Cousins/Gay hammer the opposition inside and wear them out. There's a big difference taking advantage of leak outs and pushing to get easy points and playing more uptempo.
While Cousins is super talented and can obviously adjust he's having a career year playing strictly half court basketball and he's stopped for the most part attempting to run fast breaks which is a great thing.
What's been done, is done. We have to move on from it no matter how many of us dislike it.
I called for Malone's head after the Rockets game. I was upset at the fact that the product on the floor contradicted almost everything Malone said the team would do. He would tell us there will be less pounding the ball, no more isos, no more tos, and etc. However, in live games he's hardly lived up to those. We're in the bottom pile of assists, Rudy forces 1on1 isos all the time, and we turn the ball over like crazy.
Rudy was reverting back to Toronto Rudy in the last 3 games. That's a terrible sign. You do not ever want Rudy Gay to play point forward no matter the circumstances. Yes he may give you a few nice assists from time to time, but we haven't been winning.
I fully believe the firing was stupid, but it's already been done. Let's all be rationale about it now. Malone was probably not the next coming of Phil Jackson. With DeMarcus Cousins or not, losing 8 of your last 10 games is unacceptable. Just because Cousins is not out there, it doesn't give the right for our entire team to throw it all away.
This team overall, has struggled tremendously in maintaining leads. Who cares about the games you almost won?
I think Malone has been great this season considering the talent he's had to work with. I hope this all gives you a little comfort in this decision. Malone was and is not an untouchable. There are better HCs out there including George Karl and Avery Johnson.
I think Pete needs to stay away from Josh Smith. He also needs to add a lot more 3pters to this team. If we're talking about playoffs soon, we'll have to give a lot to get a lot. That would mean trading the so far disappointing rookie. We need a better bench. Ray and Sessions suck no matter how anyone would like to sugar coat it. If you were in Malone's spot who would you play? A struggling vet or a struggling 2nd year player?
We need to build the team around Cousins. Gay has too much control over our offense sometimes and it's bad. Ben, not Gay, needs to guard the opposing best player.
I will not mind trading Collison away either if it means an upgrade at PG. Pete needs to reevaluate himself though.... What do you expect any coach to do with this garbage roster? Changes need to happen.
I called for Malone's head after the Rockets game. I was upset at the fact that the product on the floor contradicted almost everything Malone said the team would do. He would tell us there will be less pounding the ball, no more isos, no more tos, and etc. However, in live games he's hardly lived up to those. We're in the bottom pile of assists, Rudy forces 1on1 isos all the time, and we turn the ball over like crazy.
Rudy was reverting back to Toronto Rudy in the last 3 games. That's a terrible sign. You do not ever want Rudy Gay to play point forward no matter the circumstances. Yes he may give you a few nice assists from time to time, but we haven't been winning.
I fully believe the firing was stupid, but it's already been done. Let's all be rationale about it now. Malone was probably not the next coming of Phil Jackson. With DeMarcus Cousins or not, losing 8 of your last 10 games is unacceptable. Just because Cousins is not out there, it doesn't give the right for our entire team to throw it all away.
This team overall, has struggled tremendously in maintaining leads. Who cares about the games you almost won?
I think Malone has been great this season considering the talent he's had to work with. I hope this all gives you a little comfort in this decision. Malone was and is not an untouchable. There are better HCs out there including George Karl and Avery Johnson.
I think Pete needs to stay away from Josh Smith. He also needs to add a lot more 3pters to this team. If we're talking about playoffs soon, we'll have to give a lot to get a lot. That would mean trading the so far disappointing rookie. We need a better bench. Ray and Sessions suck no matter how anyone would like to sugar coat it. If you were in Malone's spot who would you play? A struggling vet or a struggling 2nd year player?
We need to build the team around Cousins. Gay has too much control over our offense sometimes and it's bad. Ben, not Gay, needs to guard the opposing best player.
I will not mind trading Collison away either if it means an upgrade at PG. Pete needs to reevaluate himself though.... What do you expect any coach to do with this garbage roster? Changes need to happen.
I don't know why, but these last few weeks we've been getting the ball up past half court very slowly. With both Sessions and Collison. I think this is a result of Malone's pace. Collison is a scrappy type of PG..same with IT. I think Pete wanted us to push the ball up the floor quickly so we can start running our offense. It'll be tough to find a coach that can develop and offense that attributes to both Cousins' and Gay's best skill sets.
I feel like Malone got the best out of both players. We have to build around Cousins. I don't know how we do that if we want a high up tempo offense, but there's been so many times where I've seen guys stare at Cousins working down low not attempting to move around. That's the frustrating thing especially when he's actually trying to look for his teammates for easy baskets.
I feel like Malone got the best out of both players. We have to build around Cousins. I don't know how we do that if we want a high up tempo offense, but there's been so many times where I've seen guys stare at Cousins working down low not attempting to move around. That's the frustrating thing especially when he's actually trying to look for his teammates for easy baskets.
I agree 100%. All of your points make sense. The bottom line is Malone's overall game management and the way he used and did not use players, was not showing signs of getting this team to where we want to be....regardless of DMC being 100% healthy and playing like an MVP.
The ceiling was not high enough with Malone's tactics. Very little creativity to the offense and setting Rudy up with ISO plays time after time...not gonna get it done. Ramon Sessions stuffed down our throats game after game, during abysmal play....and playing him at SG over Ben in a recent 4th quarter. Nik Stauskas in at the end of the game in LA and put in a position to be a primary ball handler. All of this is irrational.
Why spend another 3/4 of a season with a coach who isn't making much sense with how he manages the team in actual games? No thanks. Lets move on sooner, instead of sometime later maybe.
I believe Corbin has a better all around feel for in game action and will certainly help our offense and player rotations. I'm on board with George Karl as well, if that's who they're really wanting.
I like how this front office is swift with decisions. They analyze, make a decision, and then move on it
The ceiling was not high enough with Malone's tactics. Very little creativity to the offense and setting Rudy up with ISO plays time after time...not gonna get it done. Ramon Sessions stuffed down our throats game after game, during abysmal play....and playing him at SG over Ben in a recent 4th quarter. Nik Stauskas in at the end of the game in LA and put in a position to be a primary ball handler. All of this is irrational.
Why spend another 3/4 of a season with a coach who isn't making much sense with how he manages the team in actual games? No thanks. Lets move on sooner, instead of sometime later maybe.
I believe Corbin has a better all around feel for in game action and will certainly help our offense and player rotations. I'm on board with George Karl as well, if that's who they're really wanting.
I like how this front office is swift with decisions. They analyze, make a decision, and then move on it
K
I don't get why everyone is turning on DC, why would you trade a guy on a great deal/who's excellent for team chemistry and has helped us win? DC to me other than Cousins has been our best 2 way player, the dude has gone up against elite PGs and held his own both ends.
Unless we are getting a legit all star level talent or a serious upgrade you don't trade away guys on good deals like JT/DC. If it were Landry sure or Derrick Williams but people are quick to forget how good DC truely was before his injury and Cousins going out.
Unless we are getting a legit all star level talent or a serious upgrade you don't trade away guys on good deals like JT/DC. If it were Landry sure or Derrick Williams but people are quick to forget how good DC truely was before his injury and Cousins going out.
