Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)

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Tetsujin said:
You obviously forgot we're the Kings. If there's a way we could mess things up, we will.
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Just this one time, please, let's get something right! I laughed at the "Buddy is the next Steph" fawning like most everyone else but he's actually playing well enough to deserve an apology from me. I rolled my eyes a bit when we traded down for Bogdanovic and waited to see when he actually wanted to play for us but once I actually looked him up I've been steadily more and more impressed by his poise and guts. He's already a guy I would trust to make the right decision in the closing moments of a big game. And I loved the Fox pick last year so we haven't done everything wrong recently. Just get this one pick here right and we should be in very good shape for the future with the core we've got.
 
biltalent said:
Man, you're scaring me. I change my previous stands to being a happy camper as long as it is not Bamba.

In all seriousness, if Doncic is not in the FOs consideration, why would both Vlade and Vivek fly to Europe and watch the game last night?
If it was only Vlade maybe to you could argue to give the impression that you really wants him to trick some other GM. But Vivek? I can't see that. I guess Doncic is at least considered. Whether he will be the pick we will see.
Click to expand...

Blob isn't the final authority on all this. ;)
 
tyguy said:
I’ll be so disappointed if suns pick doncic... I know that means we go Ayton, and I’m just not high on him.
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I'm not real high on him either but on the bright side I think Ayton has by far the least bust potential of any of the top players. The Kings are the kings of drafting busts so at least we would be mostly assured on that front.
 
hrdboild said:
Some people are talking about Gordon Hayward upside. Those people are probably wrong though. There has never been a prospect in the Euroleague who is this accomplished at this age. I don't know if you remember what it was like to see LeBron James play in High School but Luka right now is the Euroleague equivalent of LeBron in America at that age. We have no basis for comparison because it's never happened before. He's not as athletic of course but he's got the same passing instincts and wise beyond his years mastery of the game. If you're the type of person to find the closest player you can think of who superficially matches a prospect than maybe you're nervous that we haven't had a European born superstar yet but think about this...

Dirk Nowitzki has had a 20 year career playing for the same team. He's a 13 time All Star, won a league MVP award, a championship, a Finals MVP, and been selected to an All-NBA team 12 times. That's a no doubt Hall of Fame career. Luka is better than Dirk was at his age. He's the most dominant player in his league right now! Is that a guarantee of anything regarding his NBA future? Obviously not. But as far as his potential is concerned? I feel pretty good about it! If this kid were born in America he'd be nicknamed Basketball Jesus and he'd already have a 500 million dollar Nike contract. Frankly I think the way he's being treated by all these draft "experts" right now is pretty insulting. Is there a 19 year old in this draft who doesn't have things to work on before they'll be a good defender in the NBA? There never is. Why is it with Doncic people watch the tape looking for reasons why he's going to fail?

Here's one more example: I was a huge Brandon Jennings fan. He was the Prep Player of the Year after he average 35 points per game his senior year in High School. He was balling at Compton HS and I'd recently moved to LA to go to USC. I actually think I might have played him one-on-one on the outdoor court there before I knew who he was (he destroyed me obviously and I don't think he was really trying -- or maybe it was just a different lefty who looked a lot like him ). That's not the point though, the point is he was damn good. He skipped college and spent a year in the Euroleague at age 18, averaging 5.5 points, 1.6 rebounds, 2.2 assists, and 1.5 steals in 17.0 minutes per game for Lottomatica Roma in Italy. Then he came into the NBA and was an instant star, dropping 55 points on Golden State in just the 7th game of his NBA career and making the All Rookie team along with Tyreke and Steph.

Now his career did more or less plateaue after that (and then an Achilles injury killed it when he was leading a playoff team in Detroit) but the point is, anyone writing off Luka's dominance in the Euroleague doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. Here's a kid Jennings who was at the top of his High School class (I would have taken him first overall in the draft that year) and he had trouble adjusting to the physicality of the Euroleague. Again that proves nothing, every player is unique. But I hope it at least recontextualizes a little bit the magnitude of Luka's accomplishment. We question sometimes if an elite college player is just dominating because they're older and more developed but if someone is among the youngest players in their league and still dominates games? Those players have an almost 100% success rate. Yeah there was Mike Beasley but his problems weren't basketball related. Are there any other examples of Freshman phenoms completely wiping out in the NBA? The low ceiling stuff is laughably absurd in the face of what this kid has already accomplished.
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Yeah LeBron without the athleticism. You're left with Gordon Hayward at that point. Not bad but no superstar. And that's if his shot improves, no given.

If dominating older players is almost 100% success rate we should be focused on Trae Young. I'm just beating a dead horse at this point though so I'll give it a rest. I like Luka, if he's Hayward that's worthy of #2 overall. But I don't love him. He has an obvious, glaring flaw in his lack of athleticism that his fans just want to gloss over. I just don't see how it's not a problem. He's a wing, not a PG. That's a position where being a long athlete is pretty important. His success against euro competition might not translate as a result, that's my concern.

https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/your-top-ten.67632/#post-1327381

Check this thread from last year, I was higher on Tatum, dsj, and Donovan Mitchell than anyone else on the site. Having a different viewpoint doesn't make you wrong. And I might still take Luka at #2, I'm not in love with any of the other guys there either. It's just not a no brainer to me.
 
hrdboild said:
You keep harping on this but the dude doesn't have official measurements because he was playing the Euroleague Final Four when the draft combine happened. This should be so obvious it's not even worth responding to but you keep throwing it out there over and over and over again. As far as I know there's no official measurement for his height either. If Vlade wants official measurements he'll get them if he doesn't have them already. Just because that information hasn't been slathered across draft blogs doesn't mean he's hiding something. What about DeAndre Ayton, Marvin Bagley, and Mikal Bridges skipping the measurements at the combine when they didn't have the excuse that their team kindof needed them in Serbia to win a damn championship? Are they hiding something too? Should we plot Ayton, Bridges, and Bagley in the bottom quadrant too because they're "obviously hiding something"? Come'on man.
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On today's day and age, cant a players height and wingspan, lateral quickness etc all be figured out using tape?
The courts and lines are all knowns. Seems to me just the right picture of a player standing tall with arms up that as long as the footage is good, then some math can be used to get those measurments. Could also overlay images of other athletes on in same position and compare. Same for working out lateral quickness etc. I dont see any reason that the Kings should not have Luka all measured out just from tape.
 
roasthawg said:
Check this thread from last year, I was higher on Tatum, dsj, and Donovan Mitchell than anyone else on the site.
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You were the second highest on Donovan of everyone. ;)

"His skills jump off the screen. He can drive and finish, drive and lob, or drive and dish. I see a guy who attacks the rim, keeps his balance and focus on rim under duress. That's what Lillard does. And he has Lillard range.....I am not saying Donovan can be the next Westbrook, but when you have a dominant physical and athletic profile AND work ethic, this bodes well he will respond to the challenge. Donovan keeps his dribble through traffic has spin moves, up and under moves. He is strong and quick. This is a guy who is going to force defense in his direction which will leave targets open for dunks and open shots. He has a lot to learn but all the tools are there. I would take him over Frank N and Dennis Smith Jr. at #10 without hesitation."

https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/your-top-ten.67632/

The irony about this comment is Donovan knocked out Westbrooks in the playoffs and often outplayed him. I underestimated him :p

Here's another prediction I made in that thread in December 6 2017 that looks auspicious:

P.S. I haven't scouted yet for 2018, but I think DeAndre Ayton may be the best prospect since LeBron James. He will be the #1 pick.

Who is the Donovan of this years draft? I think Mo Bamba, Sexton and/or Miles Bridges. Who is this years Malik Monk? Trae Young, though I am surprised he weighed as much as he did. He's around 170 pounds when he looks 155 pounds. His wingspan is same as Mason who struggled at the rim. Young is not nearly as athletic or strong as Mason. Strong bust potential. He won't get to the rim and he wont be able to defend.

The draft is two weeks from tomorrow! Woo-hoo can't wait :p
 
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If Luka is being compared to Hayward a big astrik needs to be added to that Hayward comparison to include chris paul or better vision awarness and passing ability.

Lukas athleticism is comparable to Harden, and as noted with listing many such skilled players, thats obviously enough to get the job done. I think he is actually a little better than Harden in this depaetment. Plus Luka is just bigger and longer. Much harder to shoot over.

Luka was probably hid defensivley in europe NOT because he is not cabaple, but because he is your BEST offensive player by far and you want to save his energy for thatvside of the court.

If the only concern with Luka is that he wont be able to switch onto Lillard/westbrook/wall/curry and stay in front of them, then hmmmm neither can any of the other prospects except maybe Mikal Bridges. Against wings i think he will be fine. Durant shoots over everyone. Again you think Bagely or MPJ are going to slow down Leonard Durant Giannis? He will get torched then get stuffed on the other end with his left hand 3tf shot. Of all the guys being discussed Bagley is the 1 guy for the life of me i cant understand being drafted before Luka.
 
kingsfan1984 said:
If Luka is being compared to Hayward a big astrik needs to be added to that Hayward comparison to include chris paul or better vision awarness and passing ability.

Lukas athleticism is comparable to Harden, and as noted with listing many such skilled players, thats obviously enough to get the job done. I think he is actually a little better than Harden in this depaetment. Plus Luka is just bigger and longer. Much harder to shoot over.

Luka was probably hid defensivley in europe NOT because he is not cabaple, but because he is your BEST offensive player by far and you want to save his energy for thatvside of the court.

If the only concern with Luka is that he wont be able to switch onto Lillard/westbrook/wall/curry and stay in front of them, then hmmmm neither can any of the other prospects except maybe Mikal Bridges. Against wings i think he will be fine. Durant shoots over everyone. Again you think Bagely or MPJ are going to slow down Leonard Durant Giannis? He will get torched then get stuffed on the other end with his left hand 3tf shot. Of all the guys being discussed Bagley is the 1 guy for the life of me i cant understand being drafted before Luka.
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The problem with comparing Luka to harden is Luka is gonna have to guard threes.
 
After watching a few full games of Doncic, I will say that he has better court vision and passing than Fox. Fox has the better handles.

Luka also seems to be more effective when he initiates the offense, so he is surveying the defense when he has the ball. If Luka was the initiator on offense, you would need to use Fox more off the ball. I think Fox is more of a score first point guard anyways.

With Doncic handling Point Forward and Fox as the Scoring Point Guard duties, I would start Buddy at SG to give us a knock down 3 point shooter. Bogdan would be the primary ball handler on the second unit. With Giles and his (rumored and hyped) passing from the PF position, I can see the ball movement being excellent on the Kings next year! ;)

PF: Giles / Skal / ZBo
SF: Doncic / JJ / Temple or Jakar?
C: WCS / KK
SG: Buddy / Bogdan / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason

The Kings would be sure fun to watch! :)
 
He´s sneaky good rim protector , great timing and good enough length..

https://streamable.com/a2kgz

https://streamable.com/35lep

https://twitter.com/x/status/1003983432425398272


On a recent pod Coach Thorpe said he talked to Gal Mekel, who said the amount of work a team has to put into game-planning for Doncic is immense.We are talking about playoff game planning level , they take away some things but he has others up his sleeve.

Its not cool seeing him double in pick and roll situations to take away ball from him but all that will speed up his development.Not only teams tactically studying ways to stop him,every now and then you see some veteran player going at him and,kicking him without the ball and trash talking.Luka may seem nice but he trash talks back.Last night player from Gran Canaria hit him intentionally , they started going back and forward , trash talking , and long story short Gran Canaria 30 year old veteran after air ball went to the bench all heatad provoking home crowd and Luka was steel on the court smiling and dominating the game.He tried to take him out of the game but kid 10 years younger did that to him.

Thats the most impressive thing.Befor the season started evrybody knew he was Madrids most important player.Teams with 40/50 milion dolars budget and great coaching.They tried to dissect him and stop him with every legal and illegal way possibly.And they failed , they failed to stop 18 year old leading Yankees of europe to the Euroleauge title.While beaing the leader , taking important shots and cursing out his 30 year old ex nba teammates if they miss out on some rotation.Rudy Fernandez,Gustavo Ayon,Anthony Randolph,Trey Thompkins,Jeff Taylor,JC Carroll.For some those names dont mean anything , but ther are all ex nba player o ncaa starts , in ther prime , with 30 years , enough money and pride , and all of them with Real Madrid , teams that fires coaches after winning the champions leauge , they gave €35 milion project to 18 year old kid , not that they gave it to him , he was so good that they had no other choice.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=AKX&seasoncode=E2001
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=005929&seasoncode=E2017

Ginobili was 24 when he did what Luka did this season and statistics wise Luka with 18 even had better season than him.
Gino one year later was already winning rings with the Spurs..

Regular season compare with amount of pressur,expecations,game planing he faced this season is not even close.Not talking about talent level.The way the teams played him,much harder play alowed with players constantly trying to take him from the game,provoking him and so on.Gallinari,Saric,Mirotic,Rubio wher all talented player.Not close to Luka in regards of raw numbers,advance nummbers or anything.But most important thing not one of them was leader of some great team.Only Rubio won euroleauge but on that Barca team its tough to say was he among 5 or 6 most important players.I truly belive they could be rewriting history in few years like "how the hell he wasant a top pick when he did something that nobody did since and probably wont do after him".One of the reason is that you can´´t compare him to anybody , we´re talking about something unprecedent.Comparing Hayward 18 year old season on Butler with this is laughable.

But you´ll see people say stuff like "Harden has the better handle " "He´s the better shooter" and they are constantly comparing him to the peak version of this player not them as the prospects. They certainly aint´t comparing him to 19 year old James who flameout on the tournament ;

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/james-harden-1/gamelog/2009

Because "Doncic peaked" only 19 year older to do so.Like he´s so skilled right now they don´t see the path from him to improve , what's ridiculous because he´s the prospect that improved the most.Luka is great player already , but his also the prospecet , but people often forget that.
 
ockingsfan said:
...
PF: Giles / Skal / ZBo
SF: Doncic / JJ / Temple or Jakar?
C: WCS / KK
SG: Buddy / Bogdan / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason

The Kings would be sure fun to watch! :)
Click to expand...

I like your lineup (while keeping my fingers crossed that ZBo finds a new home somehow). That team WOULD be fun to watch!!!
 
burner account said:
He´s sneaky good rim protector , great timing and good enough length..

https://streamable.com/a2kgz

https://streamable.com/35lep

https://twitter.com/x/status/1003983432425398272


On a recent pod Coach Thorpe said he talked to Gal Mekel, who said the amount of work a team has to put into game-planning for Doncic is immense.We are talking about playoff game planning level , they take away some things but he has others up his sleeve.

Its not cool seeing him double in pick and roll situations to take away ball from him but all that will speed up his development.Not only teamstactically studying ways to stop him,every now and then you see some veteran player going at him and,kicking him without the ball and trash talking.Luka may seem nice but he trashtalks back.Last night player from Gran Canaria hit him intentionally , they started going back and forward , trash talking , and long story short Gran Canaria 30 year old veteran after air ball went to the bench all heatad provoking home crowd and Luka was steel on the court smiling and dominating the game.He tried to take him out of the game but kid 10 years younger did that to him.

Thats the most impressive thing.Befor the season started evrybody knew he was Madrids most important player.Teams with 40/50 milion dolars budget and great coaching.They tried to dissect him and stop him with every legal and illegal way possibly.And they failed , they failed to stop 18 year old leading Yankees of europe to the Euroleauge title.While beaing the leader , taking important shots and cursing out his 30 year old ex nba teammates if they miss out on some rotation.Rudy Fernandez,Gustavo Ayon,Anthony Randolph,Trey Thompkins,Jeff Taylor,JC Carroll.For some those names dont mean anything , but ther are all ex nba player o ncaa starts , in ther prime , with 30 years , enough money and pride , and all of them with Real Madrid , teams that fires coaches after winning the champions leauge , they gave €35 milion project to 18 year old kid , not that they gave it to him , he was so good that they had no other choice.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=AKX&seasoncode=E2001
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=005929&seasoncode=E2017

Ginobili was 24 when he did what Luka did this season and statistics wise Luka with 18 even had better season than him.
Gino one year later was already winning rings with the Spurs..

Regular season compare with amount of pressur,expecations,game planing he faced this season is not even close.Not talking about talent level.The way the teams played him,much harder play alowed with players constantly trying to take him from the game,provoking him and so on.Gallinari,Saric,Mirotic,Rubio wher all talented player.Not close to Luka in regards of raw numbers,advance nummbers or anything.But most important thing not one of them was leader of some great team.Only Rubio won euroleauge but on that Barca team its tough to say was he among 5 or 6 most important players.Itruly belive they could be rewriting history in few years like "how the hell he wasant a top pick when he did something that nobody did since and probably wont do after him".One of the reason is that you can´´t compare him to anybody , we´re talking about something unprecedent.Comparing Hayward 18 year old season on Butler with this is laughable.

But you´ll see people say stuff like "Harden has the better handle " "He´s the better shooter" and they are constantly comparing him to the peak version of this player not them as the prospects. They certainly aint´t comparing him to 19 year old James who flameout on the tournament ;

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/james-harden-1/gamelog/2009

Because "Doncic peaked" only 19 year older to do so.Like he´s so skilled right now they don´t see the path from him to improve , what's ridiculous because he´s the prospect that improved the most.Luka is great player already , but his also the prospecet , but people often forget that.
Click to expand...
Yep, you can see how teams specifically plan for Doncic. I also think they play Doncic a bit more physical because of his "superstar" status. Doncic looses his cool from time to time, but he plays very composed. I think he has a confident/cocky streak in him that many don't know about unless they actually watch the games.

I agree with everything you said, except the last part. Most people are comparing Doncic to 28yearold Hayward, not 18yearold Hayward at Butler. Prime Hayward(there's only1 user who brought him up at Butler). When people compare prospects to NBA players, most are talking about the end product. Here are the stats Hayward posted up from 23yearsold to 26yearsold (4 years): 19.2pts 5.1rebs 4.1asts on 44.1/35.7/82.4
If Doncic can average that in his prime, then he would be a very good player. I think people forgot how good Hayward is just because he got injured. Last season he got even better scoring almost 22ppg on 47/39.8/84
 
ockingsfan said:
After watching a few full games of Doncic, I will say that he has better court vision and passing than Fox. Fox has the better handles.

Luka also seems to be more effective when he initiates the offense, so he is surveying the defense when he has the ball. If Luka was the initiator on offense, you would need to use Fox more off the ball. I think Fox is more of a score first point guard anyways.

With Doncic handling Point Forward and Fox as the Scoring Point Guard duties, I would start Buddy at SG to give us a knock down 3 point shooter. Bogdan would be the primary ball handler on the second unit. With Giles and his (rumored and hyped) passing from the PF position, I can see the ball movement being excellent on the Kings next year! ;)

PF: Giles / Skal / ZBo
SF: Doncic / JJ / Temple or Jakar?
C: WCS / KK
SG: Buddy / Bogdan / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason

The Kings would be sure fun to watch! :)
Click to expand...

This is more or less what I was thinking too. Buddy makes sense in the starting lineup if Fox and Doncic are both out there since he's the best shooter on the team. Bringing Bogdan off the bench allows him to play more of a hybrid guard role and initiate the offense more. I probably wouldn't go with two bigs who can't space the floor in the starting lineup though. Both Doncic and Fox can break down defenders and kick out to shooters so I think we'll want another shooter at that 4 spot, ideally a 3 and D wing who can guard a few positions. Nigel Hayes is big enough to fill this role if he continues to develop. He's sortof like a SF/PF version of early-career Wesley Matthews. But realistically we'll probably need to go out and acquire this player. The best of our current bigs becomes the defacto "center in name only". And then I like Skal Labissiere off the bench as our backup 4/5 because he can also help to space the floor.
 
hrdboild said:
This is more or less what I was thinking too. Buddy makes sense in the starting lineup if Fox and Doncic are both out there since he's the best shooter on the team. Bringing Bogdan off the bench allows him to play more of a hybrid guard role and initiate the offense more. I probably wouldn't go with two bigs who can't space the floor in the starting lineup though. Both Doncic and Fox can break down defenders and kick out to shooters so I think we'll want another shooter at that 4 spot, ideally a 3 and D wing who can guard a few positions. Nigel Hayes is big enough to fill this role if he continues to develop. He's sortof like a SF/PF version of early-career Wesley Matthews. But realistically we'll probably need to go out and acquire this player. The best of our current bigs becomes the defacto "center in name only". And then I like Skal Labissiere off the bench as our backup 4/5 because he can also help to space the floor.
Click to expand...

Really hoping we can swing a 10-15th pick somehow and pick up one of the Bridges or even a Knox to fill in that 3 and D wing spot. I shudder at the thought of playing Nigel Hayes in any kind of important role. If we somehow came out of this draft with whoever at 2 and then Miles Bridges in a trade, I'd be ecstatic and I know you would be too.
 
kingsfan1984 said:
Since luka is strong and has just fine length and height size, him gaurding 3s will be easier or less of an issue than Harden trying to match up against the leagues gaurds
Click to expand...
Not a lot of good
jcwkings said:
If you're going to go with the lazy Gordon Hayward comparison at least add Ben Simmons in Gordan Haywards body with an outside shot. Now you're getting a closer idea of his ceiling.
Click to expand...
Ben Simmons can't shoot... Why not just call him LeBron in Gordon Haywards body? Problem with that is LeBron in anyone else's body isn't LeBron.... Which is why the body type is so important.
 
burner account said:
Regarding passing i would recommend this video ;)

Click to expand...

All I have to say is that Doncic would instantly make WCS, Buddy, Bogdan, Giles, and Skal better and more efficient players by getting them the rock on a rope. :) (Big men and shooters will love him. ;))

You can't say that about any other player in this draft, including Ayton. ;)
 
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ockingsfan said:
After watching a few full games of Doncic, I will say that he has better court vision and passing than Fox. Fox has the better handles.

Luka also seems to be more effective when he initiates the offense, so he is surveying the defense when he has the ball. If Luka was the initiator on offense, you would need to use Fox more off the ball. I think Fox is more of a score first point guard anyways.

With Doncic handling Point Forward and Fox as the Scoring Point Guard duties, I would start Buddy at SG to give us a knock down 3 point shooter. Bogdan would be the primary ball handler on the second unit. With Giles and his (rumored and hyped) passing from the PF position, I can see the ball movement being excellent on the Kings next year! ;)

PF: Giles / Skal / ZBo
SF: Doncic / JJ / Temple or Jakar?
C: WCS / KK
SG: Buddy / Bogdan / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason

The Kings would be sure fun to watch! :)
Click to expand...

To add to what you said, I think it will also help Doncic to have other good ballhandlers on the floor with him. It'll will take some of the pressure off him, and let him play off the ball a bit more. You would have Doncic, Fox, and Bog's all being able to bring the ball up and initiate the offense. And if Giles is as good a passer as they've implied, you would have very good ball movement as well. Willie has shown himself to be a good and improving passer.
 
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