Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)
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Just this one time, please, let's get something right! I laughed at the "Buddy is the next Steph" fawning like most everyone else but he's actually playing well enough to deserve an apology from me. I rolled my eyes a bit when we traded down for Bogdanovic and waited to see when he actually wanted to play for us but once I actually looked him up I've been steadily more and more impressed by his poise and guts. He's already a guy I would trust to make the right decision in the closing moments of a big game. And I loved the Fox pick last year so we haven't done everything wrong recently. Just get this one pick here right and we should be in very good shape for the future with the core we've got.
Yeah LeBron without the athleticism. You're left with Gordon Hayward at that point. Not bad but no superstar. And that's if his shot improves, no given.
If dominating older players is almost 100% success rate we should be focused on Trae Young. I'm just beating a dead horse at this point though so I'll give it a rest. I like Luka, if he's Hayward that's worthy of #2 overall. But I don't love him. He has an obvious, glaring flaw in his lack of athleticism that his fans just want to gloss over. I just don't see how it's not a problem. He's a wing, not a PG. That's a position where being a long athlete is pretty important. His success against euro competition might not translate as a result, that's my concern.
https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/your-top-ten.67632/#post-1327381
Check this thread from last year, I was higher on Tatum, dsj, and Donovan Mitchell than anyone else on the site. Having a different viewpoint doesn't make you wrong. And I might still take Luka at #2, I'm not in love with any of the other guys there either. It's just not a no brainer to me.
If dominating older players is almost 100% success rate we should be focused on Trae Young. I'm just beating a dead horse at this point though so I'll give it a rest. I like Luka, if he's Hayward that's worthy of #2 overall. But I don't love him. He has an obvious, glaring flaw in his lack of athleticism that his fans just want to gloss over. I just don't see how it's not a problem. He's a wing, not a PG. That's a position where being a long athlete is pretty important. His success against euro competition might not translate as a result, that's my concern.
https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/your-top-ten.67632/#post-1327381
Check this thread from last year, I was higher on Tatum, dsj, and Donovan Mitchell than anyone else on the site. Having a different viewpoint doesn't make you wrong. And I might still take Luka at #2, I'm not in love with any of the other guys there either. It's just not a no brainer to me.
On today's day and age, cant a players height and wingspan, lateral quickness etc all be figured out using tape?
The courts and lines are all knowns. Seems to me just the right picture of a player standing tall with arms up that as long as the footage is good, then some math can be used to get those measurments. Could also overlay images of other athletes on in same position and compare. Same for working out lateral quickness etc. I dont see any reason that the Kings should not have Luka all measured out just from tape.
The courts and lines are all knowns. Seems to me just the right picture of a player standing tall with arms up that as long as the footage is good, then some math can be used to get those measurments. Could also overlay images of other athletes on in same position and compare. Same for working out lateral quickness etc. I dont see any reason that the Kings should not have Luka all measured out just from tape.
You were the second highest on Donovan of everyone. 
"His skills jump off the screen. He can drive and finish, drive and lob, or drive and dish. I see a guy who attacks the rim, keeps his balance and focus on rim under duress. That's what Lillard does. And he has Lillard range.....I am not saying Donovan can be the next Westbrook, but when you have a dominant physical and athletic profile AND work ethic, this bodes well he will respond to the challenge. Donovan keeps his dribble through traffic has spin moves, up and under moves. He is strong and quick. This is a guy who is going to force defense in his direction which will leave targets open for dunks and open shots. He has a lot to learn but all the tools are there. I would take him over Frank N and Dennis Smith Jr. at #10 without hesitation."
https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/your-top-ten.67632/
The irony about this comment is Donovan knocked out Westbrooks in the playoffs and often outplayed him. I underestimated him
Here's another prediction I made in that thread in December 6 2017 that looks auspicious:
P.S. I haven't scouted yet for 2018, but I think DeAndre Ayton may be the best prospect since LeBron James. He will be the #1 pick.
Who is the Donovan of this years draft? I think Mo Bamba, Sexton and/or Miles Bridges. Who is this years Malik Monk? Trae Young, though I am surprised he weighed as much as he did. He's around 170 pounds when he looks 155 pounds. His wingspan is same as Mason who struggled at the rim. Young is not nearly as athletic or strong as Mason. Strong bust potential. He won't get to the rim and he wont be able to defend.
The draft is two weeks from tomorrow! Woo-hoo can't wait
"His skills jump off the screen. He can drive and finish, drive and lob, or drive and dish. I see a guy who attacks the rim, keeps his balance and focus on rim under duress. That's what Lillard does. And he has Lillard range.....I am not saying Donovan can be the next Westbrook, but when you have a dominant physical and athletic profile AND work ethic, this bodes well he will respond to the challenge. Donovan keeps his dribble through traffic has spin moves, up and under moves. He is strong and quick. This is a guy who is going to force defense in his direction which will leave targets open for dunks and open shots. He has a lot to learn but all the tools are there. I would take him over Frank N and Dennis Smith Jr. at #10 without hesitation."
https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/your-top-ten.67632/
The irony about this comment is Donovan knocked out Westbrooks in the playoffs and often outplayed him. I underestimated him
Here's another prediction I made in that thread in December 6 2017 that looks auspicious:
P.S. I haven't scouted yet for 2018, but I think DeAndre Ayton may be the best prospect since LeBron James. He will be the #1 pick.
Who is the Donovan of this years draft? I think Mo Bamba, Sexton and/or Miles Bridges. Who is this years Malik Monk? Trae Young, though I am surprised he weighed as much as he did. He's around 170 pounds when he looks 155 pounds. His wingspan is same as Mason who struggled at the rim. Young is not nearly as athletic or strong as Mason. Strong bust potential. He won't get to the rim and he wont be able to defend.
The draft is two weeks from tomorrow! Woo-hoo can't wait
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If Luka is being compared to Hayward a big astrik needs to be added to that Hayward comparison to include chris paul or better vision awarness and passing ability.
Lukas athleticism is comparable to Harden, and as noted with listing many such skilled players, thats obviously enough to get the job done. I think he is actually a little better than Harden in this depaetment. Plus Luka is just bigger and longer. Much harder to shoot over.
Luka was probably hid defensivley in europe NOT because he is not cabaple, but because he is your BEST offensive player by far and you want to save his energy for thatvside of the court.
If the only concern with Luka is that he wont be able to switch onto Lillard/westbrook/wall/curry and stay in front of them, then hmmmm neither can any of the other prospects except maybe Mikal Bridges. Against wings i think he will be fine. Durant shoots over everyone. Again you think Bagely or MPJ are going to slow down Leonard Durant Giannis? He will get torched then get stuffed on the other end with his left hand 3tf shot. Of all the guys being discussed Bagley is the 1 guy for the life of me i cant understand being drafted before Luka.
Lukas athleticism is comparable to Harden, and as noted with listing many such skilled players, thats obviously enough to get the job done. I think he is actually a little better than Harden in this depaetment. Plus Luka is just bigger and longer. Much harder to shoot over.
Luka was probably hid defensivley in europe NOT because he is not cabaple, but because he is your BEST offensive player by far and you want to save his energy for thatvside of the court.
If the only concern with Luka is that he wont be able to switch onto Lillard/westbrook/wall/curry and stay in front of them, then hmmmm neither can any of the other prospects except maybe Mikal Bridges. Against wings i think he will be fine. Durant shoots over everyone. Again you think Bagely or MPJ are going to slow down Leonard Durant Giannis? He will get torched then get stuffed on the other end with his left hand 3tf shot. Of all the guys being discussed Bagley is the 1 guy for the life of me i cant understand being drafted before Luka.
After watching a few full games of Doncic, I will say that he has better court vision and passing than Fox. Fox has the better handles.
Luka also seems to be more effective when he initiates the offense, so he is surveying the defense when he has the ball. If Luka was the initiator on offense, you would need to use Fox more off the ball. I think Fox is more of a score first point guard anyways.
With Doncic handling Point Forward and Fox as the Scoring Point Guard duties, I would start Buddy at SG to give us a knock down 3 point shooter. Bogdan would be the primary ball handler on the second unit. With Giles and his (rumored and hyped) passing from the PF position, I can see the ball movement being excellent on the Kings next year!
PF: Giles / Skal / ZBo
SF: Doncic / JJ / Temple or Jakar?
C: WCS / KK
SG: Buddy / Bogdan / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason
The Kings would be sure fun to watch!
Luka also seems to be more effective when he initiates the offense, so he is surveying the defense when he has the ball. If Luka was the initiator on offense, you would need to use Fox more off the ball. I think Fox is more of a score first point guard anyways.
With Doncic handling Point Forward and Fox as the Scoring Point Guard duties, I would start Buddy at SG to give us a knock down 3 point shooter. Bogdan would be the primary ball handler on the second unit. With Giles and his (rumored and hyped) passing from the PF position, I can see the ball movement being excellent on the Kings next year!
PF: Giles / Skal / ZBo
SF: Doncic / JJ / Temple or Jakar?
C: WCS / KK
SG: Buddy / Bogdan / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason
The Kings would be sure fun to watch!
He´s sneaky good rim protector , great timing and good enough length..
https://streamable.com/a2kgz
https://streamable.com/35lep
On a recent pod Coach Thorpe said he talked to Gal Mekel, who said the amount of work a team has to put into game-planning for Doncic is immense.We are talking about playoff game planning level , they take away some things but he has others up his sleeve.
Its not cool seeing him double in pick and roll situations to take away ball from him but all that will speed up his development.Not only teams tactically studying ways to stop him,every now and then you see some veteran player going at him and,kicking him without the ball and trash talking.Luka may seem nice but he trash talks back.Last night player from Gran Canaria hit him intentionally , they started going back and forward , trash talking , and long story short Gran Canaria 30 year old veteran after air ball went to the bench all heatad provoking home crowd and Luka was steel on the court smiling and dominating the game.He tried to take him out of the game but kid 10 years younger did that to him.
Thats the most impressive thing.Befor the season started evrybody knew he was Madrids most important player.Teams with 40/50 milion dolars budget and great coaching.They tried to dissect him and stop him with every legal and illegal way possibly.And they failed , they failed to stop 18 year old leading Yankees of europe to the Euroleauge title.While beaing the leader , taking important shots and cursing out his 30 year old ex nba teammates if they miss out on some rotation.Rudy Fernandez,Gustavo Ayon,Anthony Randolph,Trey Thompkins,Jeff Taylor,JC Carroll.For some those names dont mean anything , but ther are all ex nba player o ncaa starts , in ther prime , with 30 years , enough money and pride , and all of them with Real Madrid , teams that fires coaches after winning the champions leauge , they gave €35 milion project to 18 year old kid , not that they gave it to him , he was so good that they had no other choice.
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=AKX&seasoncode=E2001
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=005929&seasoncode=E2017
Ginobili was 24 when he did what Luka did this season and statistics wise Luka with 18 even had better season than him.
Gino one year later was already winning rings with the Spurs..
Regular season compare with amount of pressur,expecations,game planing he faced this season is not even close.Not talking about talent level.The way the teams played him,much harder play alowed with players constantly trying to take him from the game,provoking him and so on.Gallinari,Saric,Mirotic,Rubio wher all talented player.Not close to Luka in regards of raw numbers,advance nummbers or anything.But most important thing not one of them was leader of some great team.Only Rubio won euroleauge but on that Barca team its tough to say was he among 5 or 6 most important players.I truly belive they could be rewriting history in few years like "how the hell he wasant a top pick when he did something that nobody did since and probably wont do after him".One of the reason is that you can´´t compare him to anybody , we´re talking about something unprecedent.Comparing Hayward 18 year old season on Butler with this is laughable.
But you´ll see people say stuff like "Harden has the better handle " "He´s the better shooter" and they are constantly comparing him to the peak version of this player not them as the prospects. They certainly aint´t comparing him to 19 year old James who flameout on the tournament ;
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/james-harden-1/gamelog/2009
Because "Doncic peaked" only 19 year older to do so.Like he´s so skilled right now they don´t see the path from him to improve , what's ridiculous because he´s the prospect that improved the most.Luka is great player already , but his also the prospecet , but people often forget that.
https://streamable.com/a2kgz
https://streamable.com/35lep
On a recent pod Coach Thorpe said he talked to Gal Mekel, who said the amount of work a team has to put into game-planning for Doncic is immense.We are talking about playoff game planning level , they take away some things but he has others up his sleeve.
Its not cool seeing him double in pick and roll situations to take away ball from him but all that will speed up his development.Not only teams tactically studying ways to stop him,every now and then you see some veteran player going at him and,kicking him without the ball and trash talking.Luka may seem nice but he trash talks back.Last night player from Gran Canaria hit him intentionally , they started going back and forward , trash talking , and long story short Gran Canaria 30 year old veteran after air ball went to the bench all heatad provoking home crowd and Luka was steel on the court smiling and dominating the game.He tried to take him out of the game but kid 10 years younger did that to him.
Thats the most impressive thing.Befor the season started evrybody knew he was Madrids most important player.Teams with 40/50 milion dolars budget and great coaching.They tried to dissect him and stop him with every legal and illegal way possibly.And they failed , they failed to stop 18 year old leading Yankees of europe to the Euroleauge title.While beaing the leader , taking important shots and cursing out his 30 year old ex nba teammates if they miss out on some rotation.Rudy Fernandez,Gustavo Ayon,Anthony Randolph,Trey Thompkins,Jeff Taylor,JC Carroll.For some those names dont mean anything , but ther are all ex nba player o ncaa starts , in ther prime , with 30 years , enough money and pride , and all of them with Real Madrid , teams that fires coaches after winning the champions leauge , they gave €35 milion project to 18 year old kid , not that they gave it to him , he was so good that they had no other choice.
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=AKX&seasoncode=E2001
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=005929&seasoncode=E2017
Ginobili was 24 when he did what Luka did this season and statistics wise Luka with 18 even had better season than him.
Gino one year later was already winning rings with the Spurs..
Regular season compare with amount of pressur,expecations,game planing he faced this season is not even close.Not talking about talent level.The way the teams played him,much harder play alowed with players constantly trying to take him from the game,provoking him and so on.Gallinari,Saric,Mirotic,Rubio wher all talented player.Not close to Luka in regards of raw numbers,advance nummbers or anything.But most important thing not one of them was leader of some great team.Only Rubio won euroleauge but on that Barca team its tough to say was he among 5 or 6 most important players.I truly belive they could be rewriting history in few years like "how the hell he wasant a top pick when he did something that nobody did since and probably wont do after him".One of the reason is that you can´´t compare him to anybody , we´re talking about something unprecedent.Comparing Hayward 18 year old season on Butler with this is laughable.
But you´ll see people say stuff like "Harden has the better handle " "He´s the better shooter" and they are constantly comparing him to the peak version of this player not them as the prospects. They certainly aint´t comparing him to 19 year old James who flameout on the tournament ;
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/james-harden-1/gamelog/2009
Because "Doncic peaked" only 19 year older to do so.Like he´s so skilled right now they don´t see the path from him to improve , what's ridiculous because he´s the prospect that improved the most.Luka is great player already , but his also the prospecet , but people often forget that.
Yep, you can see how teams specifically plan for Doncic. I also think they play Doncic a bit more physical because of his "superstar" status. Doncic looses his cool from time to time, but he plays very composed. I think he has a confident/cocky streak in him that many don't know about unless they actually watch the games.
I agree with everything you said, except the last part. Most people are comparing Doncic to 28yearold Hayward, not 18yearold Hayward at Butler. Prime Hayward(there's only1 user who brought him up at Butler). When people compare prospects to NBA players, most are talking about the end product. Here are the stats Hayward posted up from 23yearsold to 26yearsold (4 years): 19.2pts 5.1rebs 4.1asts on 44.1/35.7/82.4
If Doncic can average that in his prime, then he would be a very good player. I think people forgot how good Hayward is just because he got injured. Last season he got even better scoring almost 22ppg on 47/39.8/84
I agree with everything you said, except the last part. Most people are comparing Doncic to 28yearold Hayward, not 18yearold Hayward at Butler. Prime Hayward(there's only1 user who brought him up at Butler). When people compare prospects to NBA players, most are talking about the end product. Here are the stats Hayward posted up from 23yearsold to 26yearsold (4 years): 19.2pts 5.1rebs 4.1asts on 44.1/35.7/82.4
If Doncic can average that in his prime, then he would be a very good player. I think people forgot how good Hayward is just because he got injured. Last season he got even better scoring almost 22ppg on 47/39.8/84
After watching a few full games of Doncic, I will say that he has better court vision and passing than Fox. Fox has the better handles.
Luka also seems to be more effective when he initiates the offense, so he is surveying the defense when he has the ball. If Luka was the initiator on offense, you would need to use Fox more off the ball. I think Fox is more of a score first point guard anyways.
With Doncic handling Point Forward and Fox as the Scoring Point Guard duties, I would start Buddy at SG to give us a knock down 3 point shooter. Bogdan would be the primary ball handler on the second unit. With Giles and his (rumored and hyped) passing from the PF position, I can see the ball movement being excellent on the Kings next year!
PF: Giles / Skal / ZBo
SF: Doncic / JJ / Temple or Jakar?
C: WCS / KK
SG: Buddy / Bogdan / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason
The Kings would be sure fun to watch!
Luka also seems to be more effective when he initiates the offense, so he is surveying the defense when he has the ball. If Luka was the initiator on offense, you would need to use Fox more off the ball. I think Fox is more of a score first point guard anyways.
With Doncic handling Point Forward and Fox as the Scoring Point Guard duties, I would start Buddy at SG to give us a knock down 3 point shooter. Bogdan would be the primary ball handler on the second unit. With Giles and his (rumored and hyped) passing from the PF position, I can see the ball movement being excellent on the Kings next year!
PF: Giles / Skal / ZBo
SF: Doncic / JJ / Temple or Jakar?
C: WCS / KK
SG: Buddy / Bogdan / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason
The Kings would be sure fun to watch!
Really hoping we can swing a 10-15th pick somehow and pick up one of the Bridges or even a Knox to fill in that 3 and D wing spot. I shudder at the thought of playing Nigel Hayes in any kind of important role. If we somehow came out of this draft with whoever at 2 and then Miles Bridges in a trade, I'd be ecstatic and I know you would be too.
Regarding passing i would recommend this video
(Big men and shooters will love him. )You can't say that about any other player in this draft, including Ayton.
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After watching a few full games of Doncic, I will say that he has better court vision and passing than Fox. Fox has the better handles.
Luka also seems to be more effective when he initiates the offense, so he is surveying the defense when he has the ball. If Luka was the initiator on offense, you would need to use Fox more off the ball. I think Fox is more of a score first point guard anyways.
With Doncic handling Point Forward and Fox as the Scoring Point Guard duties, I would start Buddy at SG to give us a knock down 3 point shooter. Bogdan would be the primary ball handler on the second unit. With Giles and his (rumored and hyped) passing from the PF position, I can see the ball movement being excellent on the Kings next year!
PF: Giles / Skal / ZBo
SF: Doncic / JJ / Temple or Jakar?
C: WCS / KK
SG: Buddy / Bogdan / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason
The Kings would be sure fun to watch!
Luka also seems to be more effective when he initiates the offense, so he is surveying the defense when he has the ball. If Luka was the initiator on offense, you would need to use Fox more off the ball. I think Fox is more of a score first point guard anyways.
With Doncic handling Point Forward and Fox as the Scoring Point Guard duties, I would start Buddy at SG to give us a knock down 3 point shooter. Bogdan would be the primary ball handler on the second unit. With Giles and his (rumored and hyped) passing from the PF position, I can see the ball movement being excellent on the Kings next year!
PF: Giles / Skal / ZBo
SF: Doncic / JJ / Temple or Jakar?
C: WCS / KK
SG: Buddy / Bogdan / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason
The Kings would be sure fun to watch!
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