Lonzo Ball

iowamcnabb said:
I've seen "smoke screen" thrown around a fair amount lately but why do the Lakers need to throw anyone off? Assuming Fultz goes 1 they can choose any remaining player in the draft. Not sure why they need to hide their choice.
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To create trade opportunities.

If they make people like the Kings believe they are going to take Fox and can convince them to move up and give the Lakers additional pieces or picks AND the Lakers get who they want anyway, it is a win-win.
 
lwc said:
To create trade opportunities.

If they make people like the Kings believe they are going to take Fox and can convince them to move up and give the Lakers additional pieces or picks AND the Lakers get who they want anyway, it is a win-win.
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5 & 34 for 2 or 3. all day... no problem with that. But Lakers won't assume Ball will slide to them at 5
 
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iowamcnabb said:
I've seen "smoke screen" thrown around a fair amount lately but why do the Lakers need to throw anyone off? Assuming Fultz goes 1 they can choose any remaining player in the draft. Not sure why they need to hide their choice.
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The no guarantee that Boston will take Fultz. Anything that gets out in the media regarding a workout has to be assumed to be propaganda, unless their organization is totally dysfunctional.
 
For such a highly regarded prospect, the buzz around Ball lately seems overwhelmingly negative. Some of that is probably all the publicity centered on his dad. I know it's not fair to judge the kid based on what his dad says but he's had every opportunity to distinguish himself as a strong individual distinct from the orbit of "The Ball Family" and "The Big Baller Brand" in his interviews and that just hasn't come across to me. It's obvious from watching him play that he's a competitor and enjoys the game but he also has this lackadaisical side to his personality which makes it feel like he's disconnected from everything and going through the motions. The contrast in interviews with Ball after UCLA lost and Fox after Kentucky lost couldn't be more distinct. Not everyone wears their emotions on their sleeves, I know that. But it's hard to get a read on who he is when he plays it cool all the time. I guess people would probably say the same thing about me so I shouldn't talk, it's just a vibe I get (probably nothing) that makes me skeptical. Anyway, I've been critical of Lonzo from the beginning for reasons, but I'm wondering if this has come all the way around now to the point where he's starting to get underrated as a player because of all the talk about his family.
 
I can't help but feel that it might actually be best thing for Lonzo himself if he did slide to Philadelphia or Phoenix. Might snap his old man out of his la la land and for Lonzo himself, the pressure as the Lakers' new face of the franchise will not be there. If he goes to Philly he will be one of 3 amigos and similarly in Phoenix he will be sharing the limelight with Booker. Gets him out of LA, away from LaVar and for Lonzo's sake, hopefully shuts his old man up for good.
 
Čarolija said:
I can't help but feel that it might actually be best thing for Lonzo himself if he did slide to Philadelphia or Phoenix. Might snap his old man out of his la la land and for Lonzo himself, the pressure as the Lakers' new face of the franchise will not be there. If he goes to Philly he will be one of 3 amigos and similarly in Phoenix he will be sharing the limelight with Booker. Gets him out of LA, away from LaVar and for Lonzo's sake, hopefully shuts his old man up for good.
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I've said this a number of times but I think Philly would be ideal for him both on and off the court.

It would mean being away from home, away from his dad and his attention getting behavior, desire for a reality TV show etc. It would also lift some of the "Return to Showtime" pressure that would undoubtedly happen in L.A.

And on the court he'd look good spacing the floor for Simmons and Embiid and being a secondary creator. I think early on Ball may struggle a bit if the ball is always on his hands as NBA defense will quickly start shading him and forcing him to his right where he struggles to shoot. Having Simmons handle and Embiid to draw defenders would put him in a position to succeed early and use his shooting, passing vision, and transition skills while having a defensive anchor in the middle who can make up for his lack of lateral quickness on defense.

I'm a Lonzo Ball fan and I'd love to see him in Philly.
 
funkykingston said:
I've said this a number of times but I think Philly would be ideal for him both on and off the court.

It would mean being away from home, away from his dad and his attention getting behavior, desire for a reality TV show etc. It would also lift some of the "Return to Showtime" pressure that would undoubtedly happen in L.A.

And on the court he'd look good spacing the floor for Simmons and Embiid and being a secondary creator. I think early on Ball may struggle a bit if the ball is always on his hands as NBA defense will quickly start shading him and forcing him to his right where he struggles to shoot. Having Simmons handle and Embiid to draw defenders would put him in a position to succeed early and use his shooting, passing vision, and transition skills while having a defensive anchor in the middle who can make up for his lack of lateral quickness on defense.

I'm a Lonzo Ball fan and I'd love to see him in Philly.
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I'm also like the sixers, light-weight, so seeing them getting good pieces makes me happy.
 
I agree, the fit on court is perfect in Phili, and getting out of L.A. might be big for him as well. I can't imagine a situation where he slides past Phili at 3.
 
Čarolija said:
I can't help but feel that it might actually be best thing for Lonzo himself if he did slide to Philadelphia or Phoenix. Might snap his old man out of his la la land and for Lonzo himself, the pressure as the Lakers' new face of the franchise will not be there. If he goes to Philly he will be one of 3 amigos and similarly in Phoenix he will be sharing the limelight with Booker. Gets him out of LA, away from LaVar and for Lonzo's sake, hopefully shuts his old man up for good.
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Lonzo on the Lakers gets to play with other "amigos" like Ingram, Randle and Russell. And you don't think there is pressure in Philly? That fan base can be brutal, less laid back or forgiving than La La Land. And I doubt LaVar would shut up if his kid played for the Antarctic Penguins. As pass first PG the best chance for Lonzo to succeed is where he has a bunch of offensive weapons to distribute to. There's an advantage to having Embiid as dominant low post threat to space the floor and give him offensive hub. Also Lonzo sucks at D and could use Embiid to cover for his whiffs. But Lakers have more offensive weapons he can distribute to. This matters more to his success than the "daunting" bright lights of LA. He's not going to succeed or fail based on that. He's a gym rat and will tune outside influences to whatever city he goes. If he's susceptible to "pressure" in LA, a lot of which will be rooting for him hard (media and fans), putting a positive spin on whatever he does, he wasn't going to succeed anyway. I hope Lonzo go Lakers, Kings land Fox, so De'Aaron can kick his butt 4 times a year. ;)
 
John Galt said:
Yeah I'm good if we get Lonzo at #5 too. What's he gonna do, hold his breath till we trade him to the Lakers? We win the draft if we pluck Lonzo at #5
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This is my nightmare. I cannot think of anything worse than drafting Lonzo at #5 except for perhaps drafting Tatum. :eek:
 
Blob said:
Lonzo on the Lakers gets to play with other "amigos" like Ingram, Randle and Russell. And you don't think there is pressure in Philly? That fan base can be brutal, less laid back or forgiving than La La Land. And I doubt LaVar would shut up if his kid played for the Antarctic Penguins. As pass first PG the best chance for Lonzo to succeed is where he has a bunch of offensive weapons to distribute to. There's an advantage to having Embiid as dominant low post threat to space the floor and give him offensive hub. Also Lonzo sucks at D and could use Embiid to cover for his whiffs. But Lakers have more offensive weapons he can distribute to. This matters more to his success than the "daunting" bright lights of LA. He's not going to succeed or fail based on that. He's a gym rat and will tune outside influences to whatever city he goes. If he's susceptible to "pressure" in LA, a lot of which will be rooting for him hard (media and fans), putting a positive spin on whatever he does, he wasn't going to succeed anyway. I hope Lonzo go Lakers, Kings land Fox, so De'Aaron can kick his butt 4 times a year. ;)
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Tons of pressure in Philly but they also love their star players that embrace the city. The pressure in LA would come the notion that he "forced" his way to the Lakers, was deemed the guy to "bring back Showtime" or be Magic Johnson's spiritual successor etc. Not to mention, that roster isn't a great fit for his game.

I think Ball will be a good pro but more than most players there are good fits and bad fits. The Lakers (just focusing on the on the court stuff) are a decent to poor fit. The Sixers are possibly a great fit.
 
funkykingston said:
Tons of pressure in Philly but they also love their star players that embrace the city. The pressure in LA would come the notion that he "forced" his way to the Lakers, was deemed the guy to "bring back Showtime" or be Magic Johnson's spiritual successor etc. Not to mention, that roster isn't a great fit for his game.

I think Ball will be a good pro but more than most players there are good fits and bad fits. The Lakers (just focusing on the on the court stuff) are a decent to poor fit. The Sixers are possibly a great fit.
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I think that Ball could be okay in Philly but probably for different reasons than you. Primarily he could throw into Embiid then cut and not be under so much obligation to create in the half-court. Also Embiid requiring a double team could enable Ball to spot up for the 3. But more importantly Embiid being behind will help Ball to cover for his defensive deficiencies.

The Lakers are a poor fit to the extent their defense is garbage and guys behind him are not going to cover for him when he gets repeatedly burned. :) But Lonzo would have scorers to his left and to his right with Clarkson, Russell, Ingram and Randle. He was a low usage player at UCLA and would be allowed to assume this role. So I don't know how this makes for "decent to poor fit."

In Philly, you would have a backcourt with two guys who need the ball to maximize their skill set. If Simmons is leading the break, that doesn't help Ball any. And if Ball is leading the break, he is not going to have Simmons as a spot-up shooter. I don't know if I see a Simmons and Ball backcourt as all that compatible. They will be terrible defensively against smaller guards. I don't know. Simmons needs a guy like Monk next to him. A pure PG like Ball does NOT seem like an ideal fit next to Simmons.

The bottom line IMHO is when you have a flawed player like Lonzo Ball there is NO optimal destination because he is going to exposed wherever he goes. ;)
 
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Blob said:
I think that Ball could be okay in Philly but probably for different reasons than you. Primarily he could throw into Embiid then cut and not be under so much obligation to create in the half-court. Also Embiid requiring a double team could enable Ball to spot up for the 3. But more importantly Embiid being behind will help Ball to cover for his defensive deficiencies.

The Lakers are a poor fit to the extent their defense is garbage and guys behind him are not going to cover for him when he gets repeatedly burned. :) But Lonzo would have scorers to his left and to his right with Clarkson, Russell, Ingram and Randle. He was a low usage player at UCLA and would be allowed to assume this role. So I don't know how this makes for "decent to poor fit."

In Philly, you would have a backcourt with two guys who need the ball to maximize their skill set. If Simmons is leading the break, that doesn't help Ball any. And if Ball is leading the break, he is not going to have Simmons as a spot-up shooter. I don't know if I see a Simmons and Ball backcourt as all that compatible. They will be terrible defensively against smaller guards. I don't know. Simmons needs a guy like Monk next to him. A pure PG like Ball does NOT seem like an ideal fit next to Simmons.

The bottom line IMHO is when you have a flawed player like Lonzo Ball there is NO optimal destination because he is going to exposed wherever he goes. ;)
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No, you hit on some of the reasons I think Philly is a good fit. Embiid helps mitigate Ball's lack of quickness on D and he'll space the floor for Embiid and Simmons as he's a very good outside shooter.

I seriously doubt Simmons will guard opposing PGs. He'll guard forwards. With Ball I would imagine they'd take the approach the Warriors do with Curry and let him guard the lesser of the opposing guards and Covington (or someone else) guard the bigger threat.

Ball plays off the ball better than any other PG in this draft (assuming Monk is designated as a SG) and gives Simmons another ball handler/playmaker which will be valuable as they try the Simmons as PG experiment.

The Lakers are a poor fit because as you mentioned they are already terrible defensively. They also don't have a ton of outside shooting to space the half court and I don't think of guys like Russell, Ingram or Zubac as being ideal for a transition, running team.
 
Just read a headline about the Lakers shopping the #2 pick (presumably Ball). One potential outcome is to land Paul George.
If the Pacers got the #2 pick, who would they choose? How might that affect the Kings in this draft?

Sources: Tania Ganguli of the Los Angeles Times reported this past Thursday that a source said the Lakers are "taking and making calls about trading the pick." Then a Bleacher Report article today made the Paul George connection.
 
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jcassio said:
Just read a headline about the Lakers shopping the #2 pick (presumably Ball). One potential outcome is to land Paul George.
If the Pacers got the #2 pick, who would they choose? How might that affect the Kings in this draft?

Sources: Tania Ganguli of the Los Angeles Times reported this past Thursday that a source said the Lakers are "taking and making calls about trading the pick." Then a Bleacher Report article today made the Paul George connection.
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I think the Lakers are going to be more open to dealing out dead salary now for a move back. I think if Vlade did want Ball, taking on Deng/Clarkson look a lot better now that the Lakers know they will need that cap. But that's a big if on Vlade liking Ball. He might fall anyways
 
Kingsfan23 said:
I think the Lakers are going to be more open to dealing out dead salary now for a move back. I think if Vlade did want Ball, taking on Deng/Clarkson look a lot better now that the Lakers know they will need that cap. But that's a big if on Vlade liking Ball. He might fall anyways
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I wouldn't mind that. Just no mozgov. Deng can be stopgap sf to groom Jackson. Clarkson can start the point and ease in fox or ball.
 
Vlade has said he really likes Ball. But of course he hasn't showed his cards in terms of saying who his 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice would be and in what order. I'm sure the Serbian sweepstakes (for Milos and Bogdan) also come into play in terms of taking on a couple of bigger contracts that would make Paul George possible for LaLaLand and Ball possible for us. Personally, I'd take Fox over Ball, but I'm probably going to be outvoted there.
 
jcassio said:
Vlade has said he really likes Ball. But of course he hasn't showed his cards in terms of saying who his 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice would be and in what order. I'm sure the Serbian sweepstakes (for Milos and Bogdan) also come into play in terms of taking on a couple of bigger contracts that would make Paul George possible for LaLaLand.
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So from all I've gathered from rumors, vlade likes fultz, ball, Jackson and fox. o_O I'm thinking we should stick at 5 and hope one of them drops. I just hope we don't get a repeat from last year and pick someone no one expects.
 
Sactown ExPat said:
Lakers cannot actually trade until draft night due to their 2018 already conveying to Sixers/Celtics, correct?
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Since the Lakers own the #28 pick in this draft, they can trade the #2 at any time, regardless of the 2018 encumbrance. They could not trade BOTH #2 and #28 without getting back an unprotected first rounder in either the 2017 or 2018 draft.

On draft day, they can trade both away if they wish.
 
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