I totally agree and have been saying this for quite a away, sar needs touches to be effective he is not going to get this here, there is to many scorers and I think it will be a waste of talent for him to play off the bench. The ideal situation would be in chi town and this could enable us to get some young talent back in return.
Kt?
- Thread starter Roman
- Start date
Shareef will never play for the hawks... he sed that he regrets playing with the hawks IMO.
But Shareef abdur rahim in a bulls jersey will be great:
C- Ben wallace/Tyrus Thomas
pf- Shareef Abdur-Rahim/Pj Brown
Sf- Luol Deng/Andres Nocioni
Sg- Ben Gordon/Adrian Griffin
Pg- Kirk Hinrich/Chris Duhon
Seriously guys, isn't that a nice line up?
Kings, need to overhaul their roster......
But Shareef abdur rahim in a bulls jersey will be great:
C- Ben wallace/Tyrus Thomas
pf- Shareef Abdur-Rahim/Pj Brown
Sf- Luol Deng/Andres Nocioni
Sg- Ben Gordon/Adrian Griffin
Pg- Kirk Hinrich/Chris Duhon
Seriously guys, isn't that a nice line up?
Kings, need to overhaul their roster......
Shareef will never play for the hawks... he sed that he regrets playing with the hawks IMO.
But Shareef abdur rahim in a bulls jersey will be great:
C- Ben wallace/Tyrus Thomas
pf- Shareef Abdur-Rahim/Pj Brown
Sf- Luol Deng/Andres Nocioni
Sg- Ben Gordon/Adrian Griffin
Pg- Kirk Hinrich/Chris Duhon
Seriously guys, isn't that a nice line up? Kings, need to overhaul their roster......
But Shareef abdur rahim in a bulls jersey will be great:
C- Ben wallace/Tyrus Thomas
pf- Shareef Abdur-Rahim/Pj Brown
Sf- Luol Deng/Andres Nocioni
Sg- Ben Gordon/Adrian Griffin
Pg- Kirk Hinrich/Chris Duhon
Seriously guys, isn't that a nice line up?
Kings, need to overhaul their roster......
Why would we want anyone that the Bulls would trade?
That's the flipside -- also of course that the lineup above begins to look a bit like one of those famous fantasy ball lineups like we tried last year -- maybe too many major players needing too many minutes and being forced inot uncomfortable and counterproductive platoons. Aside from injuries a team is almost always better going for talent consolidation and getting one stud to play 38 min than two pretty good guys to play 24 apiece.
Anyway, Chicago is pretty set I think. And we really have few open slots ourselves. 40min of PG is taken. Between all the kids and Salmons, probably all of OG. 40 min of SF is taken. So what we need is young bigs. And so yeah, if Chicago was willing to sell out for a title run and trade Tyrus Thomas for Reef, I would do that so fast your head would spin. But they aren't going to do that so...
Houston needs a PF too, but maybe not another post player. And certanly not another non rebounding post player. The Lakers might be abel to use him, but yeah right. Warriors? Hard to tell with Nellie ball. Reef is not a natural runner. Seattle maybe, but they are committed to Wilcox. Memphis of course, but they have already had Reef. Ditto Atlanta. Boston maybe, and they've got youth. But they would have to give up their own youth movement to get those guys that Pierce asked for around him. West seems to have lost his spot, and there's always Al Jefferson. Also Gerald Green. But of course West and Green are guards so..
Anwyay, takes two to tango. And one of them is still us. Reef looks no better this year than last, and its beginning to look liek he may really be just a ghost of what he was. Yet he could still be a very good 6th man -- not an entirely worthless commodity. For a talented young frontcourt kid? Sure. But who's going to give that to you for Reef? Have to catch a team in serious win now mode and try to sell them on Reef as final piece of the championship puzzle. If they don't have youth, try to snag a pick and ender or some such (of course if they are that good that pick isn't worth much). But I see no point in just dumping him. Want him either packaged for a stud, or bringing back youth/picks. Otherwise he can jsut "rot" away as our 6th man and maybe help us win a few ballgames.
Could move SAR for PJ Brown, no?
PJ would be an upgrade defense-wise and probably rebounding wise. Plus he comes off the books.
I could see the Bulls doing it, because Wallace could handle SARs lack of defense/rebounding and SAR brings low post scoring, which they don't have. SAR is also a bit younger and could play along with that team for a few.
The salaries are close ... I'm sure something could be worked.
PJ would be an upgrade defense-wise and probably rebounding wise. Plus he comes off the books.
I could see the Bulls doing it, because Wallace could handle SARs lack of defense/rebounding and SAR brings low post scoring, which they don't have. SAR is also a bit younger and could play along with that team for a few.
The salaries are close ... I'm sure something could be worked.
I don't see why Sacramento thinks they have so many scorers though. I mean, I'm not touting SAR as the be-all/end-all, but I don't think he's lost a step offensively. He may not be the rebounder he once was, but he's still far more efficient than most players at scoring.
The only player I'd say this team has that could score with him is Bibby. You can say Artest, but Artest always played with talent and was always a "garbage man" type player. Martin is too young, but might in the long run. Miller is ... well ... Miller.
I guess I just get confused how this team can "avoid" him when he's in the game. It's like they don't even run a play for him.
TRADE ID: 3398289
SAR/Hart for PJ Brown
The only player I'd say this team has that could score with him is Bibby. You can say Artest, but Artest always played with talent and was always a "garbage man" type player. Martin is too young, but might in the long run. Miller is ... well ... Miller.
I guess I just get confused how this team can "avoid" him when he's in the game. It's like they don't even run a play for him.
TRADE ID: 3398289
SAR/Hart for PJ Brown
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Probably, but the kicker is that you can pretty much get 10/4 off the bench from a lot of players. There's no question PJ Brown could fill that role or start and chip in 10/9. He's a smart player and won't take us out of the game.
I've seen SAR play a lot of ball and he's one of those "how the heck did he get 20 and 9?" players. He gets it through the entire game.
Guys like Bibby and Martin go through streaks and directly change the flow of the game in a few strokes. Guys like SAR contribute throughout the game. While their points are the same as everyone's, they are chipped in throughout the game. 4 here, 5 here, 4 here, 7 here and all of a sudden he's got 20.
That's why he needs to touch the ball occationally. He won't shoot a team out of a game, but he rarely shoots them into it.
I've seen SAR play a lot of ball and he's one of those "how the heck did he get 20 and 9?" players. He gets it through the entire game.
Guys like Bibby and Martin go through streaks and directly change the flow of the game in a few strokes. Guys like SAR contribute throughout the game. While their points are the same as everyone's, they are chipped in throughout the game. 4 here, 5 here, 4 here, 7 here and all of a sudden he's got 20.
That's why he needs to touch the ball occationally. He won't shoot a team out of a game, but he rarely shoots them into it.
Kevin Martin shoots well in two games and he should get loads more shots according to people here.
SAR has shot well for the past 2 years and he's not even an option.
That's what confuses me.
If he isn't scoring he isn't much use, forget the bench ... let's move him or use him. There isn't a better low post option on the team right now.
SAR has shot well for the past 2 years and he's not even an option.
That's what confuses me.
If he isn't scoring he isn't much use, forget the bench ... let's move him or use him. There isn't a better low post option on the team right now.
SAR is NOT a salary dump type of problem. He's faded, but still has his uses. Moving him for a PJ Brown to clear up salary cap space makes absolutely no sense. Pot is a salary cap space type player. SAR is still a reasonable value given his contract. Maybe not a great one given his seemingly declingin production, but still a reasonable one. A former 20pt scorer at $5-$6mil a year.
As usual I am fundamentally uninterested in doing what is best for SAR. He's paid $5-$6mil dollars a year. So tough cookies. Its about the Kings. And SAR was quite effective last year off the bench, where he could get his touches without his passivity becoming a problem, where he gave us some punch. Not All-Star stuff, but enough that you don't just dump him to dump him. You get back youth, you get back a shotblocker, or you just hang onto Reef as our version of Antonio McDyess. No stud anymore, but a quality bencher.
As usual I am fundamentally uninterested in doing what is best for SAR. He's paid $5-$6mil dollars a year. So tough cookies. Its about the Kings. And SAR was quite effective last year off the bench, where he could get his touches without his passivity becoming a problem, where he gave us some punch. Not All-Star stuff, but enough that you don't just dump him to dump him. You get back youth, you get back a shotblocker, or you just hang onto Reef as our version of Antonio McDyess. No stud anymore, but a quality bencher.
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Brick, it does matter what's "fundamentally right" for SAR, because you've got to wonder how long he'll not be a problem?
It's obvious that he wants to start. It's even obvious that he deserves to start. As a person, ignore the salary, how long until you would grow tired of what you saw to be an unfair situation? A situation where you felt taken advantage of?
Not saying it's healthy thinking, but it's reality in today's world. If we had almost any other player of SARs caliber they aren't quietly sitting the bench.
It's obvious that he wants to start. It's even obvious that he deserves to start. As a person, ignore the salary, how long until you would grow tired of what you saw to be an unfair situation? A situation where you felt taken advantage of?
Not saying it's healthy thinking, but it's reality in today's world. If we had almost any other player of SARs caliber they aren't quietly sitting the bench.
SAR is neither relevant enough anymore to be a major problem, nor has the personality to be a major problem. He's become such a passive nonentity that he lets a player of KTs caliber play him to the bench. At that point, your room to complain largely goes away.
As for a "player of SAR's ability"...what? A starter on a lottery team? An aging guy who never won squat as a primary option? A guy who had trouble finding anybody to pay him more than the MLE as a free agent last year? That level of player had better get used to reality -- nothing is going to be gifted to you. You are a burnt out, passive shell of your former self? Get used to the pine. I have yet to see Reef show an ounce of fight ON the court, so it would be ironic indeed if the first sign of a pulse he showed was bitching and whining OFF the court.
Wihtout the first, no you wouldn't.
With the first...it would definitely be in play for me..both cap space and a pick. Albeit perhaps a late pcik. However the Bulls didn't pick Brown up a trade fodder. He's there as a veteran leader to coahc the kids. His length and ability to play some center is also critical on a very short team.
With the first...it would definitely be in play for me..both cap space and a pick. Albeit perhaps a late pcik. However the Bulls didn't pick Brown up a trade fodder. He's there as a veteran leader to coahc the kids. His length and ability to play some center is also critical on a very short team.
A starter on a lotto team ... yes, a lot like Kevin Garnett when he hasn't been surrounded by good players. I SAR @ KGs level? Heck no, but if KG can't lead talented teams into the playoffs --- why do we hold SAR to that level?
As for the MLE comment, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), but he turned down two higher paying options to play in Sacramento. One of the options was a substantial offer from Milwaukee.
I'm not so sure he hasn't shown "fight". I don't call coming in with a wired jaw exactly "fightless". I know I wouldn't have done it.
I agree with you about his passivity and lack of passion while playing, but to say he's pretty much talentless is just wrong.
As for the MLE comment, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), but he turned down two higher paying options to play in Sacramento. One of the options was a substantial offer from Milwaukee.
I'm not so sure he hasn't shown "fight". I don't call coming in with a wired jaw exactly "fightless". I know I wouldn't have done it.
I agree with you about his passivity and lack of passion while playing, but to say he's pretty much talentless is just wrong.
KG consistently took his team to the Western Conference playoffs though and he took a team with Spree and Sammy to the WCF...
Anyway the coming back to play with the broken jaw and the playing hard/well so you can start is two different things. 2 different kinds of toughness IMO if you get what I'm saying. If we could have Shareef getting even 17/9/1 block like he used to he would be the starting PF no questions asked.
I love KG, but let's not pretend those teams were talentless or without depth. Most of KGs teams had a modicrum of talent and were well coached.
Sprewell and Cassell were as much a part of the WCF success as KG. Don't count out the roster on that team, because when that same roster played with disharmony KG couldn't get them to the playoffs.
Every player needs a team to compete. Be that MJ, Kobe, Iverson, KG. This is especially true for every post player, with the exclusion of Shaq. Post players can't dominate a ball the same way guards can. They can be doubled easier and zones can be run to virtually remove them from the game. Which is why when they have a solid team and good coaching, it's near impossible to do.
KG is one of the most dominating players in the game today, but I'd be hard pressed to think he could have taken Vancouver much further than SAR did. The coaching was terrible and the rosters lacked any depth. The same could be said of Atlanta.
SAR isn't that level of player. He's more of a one-sided coin in comparison to KG who is botha defensive and offensive standout. But, he's not a one man show.
Sprewell and Cassell were as much a part of the WCF success as KG. Don't count out the roster on that team, because when that same roster played with disharmony KG couldn't get them to the playoffs.
Every player needs a team to compete. Be that MJ, Kobe, Iverson, KG. This is especially true for every post player, with the exclusion of Shaq. Post players can't dominate a ball the same way guards can. They can be doubled easier and zones can be run to virtually remove them from the game. Which is why when they have a solid team and good coaching, it's near impossible to do.
KG is one of the most dominating players in the game today, but I'd be hard pressed to think he could have taken Vancouver much further than SAR did. The coaching was terrible and the rosters lacked any depth. The same could be said of Atlanta.
SAR isn't that level of player. He's more of a one-sided coin in comparison to KG who is botha defensive and offensive standout. But, he's not a one man show.
