J
jdbraver
Guest
A Martin/Ellis swap makes sense for both teams in my opinion.
Why? Just curious.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Oh, if I had to argue it I would say:
Sacto: gets ballhandling combo guard to pair wht Tyrkee, whihc is what he really needs out of an OG. + Reke has the size to guard OGs while Ellis covers the PGs.
Warriors: Get a full sized SG rather than having to start a mighty mite Curry/Ellis duo.
That said, I remain wary of the occasional Ellis for Martin trades that pop up for the simple reason that I am not convinced that Ellis is better enough (if at all) to make up for not having a true position, and I don't know if he can play out of the run n gun. Suppose this deal is predicated on the better mesh with Evans, and so is a better thought than the ones in the past, but tweeners give me the heebie jeebies.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I would think that the perfect player to play along side Evans would be a Christie clone. Someone that can handle the ball, and distribute the ball if necessary and play good defense. Offense optional when necessary.
Section 101
All-Star
Plus Martin is a better defender than Ellis. Yes I said it. Ellis is that bad.
Dreadnought
Bench
At this point, I would do the trade. Even as a Martin fan, Ellis is more useful.
HighTopKicks
Bench
Sounds like Cisco to me.
Kings Faithful
Starter
What good would that do? I'm sick of the lack of ball movement. I know Evans hasn't proven he can be a distributer yet but he shows potential and he still has a shot at being more than just a scorer. Ellis playing the PG position stil dishes out less the 4 apg... not to mention his defense is no better than Martins. The only plus i could see is that Ellis is a slightly better rebounder, but rebounding at our guard positions shouldn't be a problem anymore with Evans around.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Ideally, I would have thought that player would need to be a good shooter from the long range to at least give Evans some space in the lane.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
why???? can you tell us why in your opinion.
I'm thinking someone like Calderon.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Whoever it is can't be a ball dominant guard.
But there is a trick there, and I would agree about the critique of the Christie idea -- yes to Doug's ballhandling, and would love to have Doug's defense, but whoever it is should be able to shoot too.
There si some of that in Ellis -- a guy who can handle the ball but doesn't NEED to handle the ball all the time. I'm just not sure I trust the overall package.
kingsnation
All-Star
Any thoughts on how we're going to get more assists than turnovers this year? Or do you figure this season will be bad enough that there's no point in worrying about such details?
ParniValjak
All-Star
Exactly right!
I would love Doug's ballhandling and especially the defense but the guy has to be able to shoot. The last thing you want is to pair Evans with someone else who can't shoot. That would make Evans' job a whole lot tougher. At least Martin can stay out on the primeter and wait for Evans to drive and dish.
Having another guard next to Evans who can't shoot would not be a good thing.
Kings Faithful
Starter
As good as that sounds, players that can shoot, handle, and defend aren't exactly common and the ones that are around probably aren't getting traded by their teams...
A
AriesMar27
Guest
they are but you gotta get them when they are young. the hawks got joe johnson for boris diaw... the grizzlies got gay for battier.... those pllayers are obtainable but you have to be willing to gamble on them earlier. they are the ultimate high risk/high reward players in the nba that arent foreigners.....
Kings Faithful
Starter
Hopefully we can add "Kings got Donte Greene for Ron Artest" to that list in the future...
jalfa
Starter
Or Omri Casspi for that matter.
Section 101
All-Star
It was Diaw and 2 number 1 picks. Big difference.
Don't know about that, IMO, Christie had much better BBIQ than Cisco. BBIQ made Christie's game much better than Cisco. It made his defense and ball distribution much better. Honestly, Cisco hasn't shown enough to impress me.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
You would have quite the defensive backcourt. I know everybody is concerned/obsessed with Evans on the offensive end - is he true, or is he not? - that is the question, but what intrigues me even more is what happens on the defensive end of the floor. Evans is obviously not going to be as quick as some of the mighty-mights that he faces, so what is coach going to do to take advantage of his size and cover for his relative lack of quickness? Maybe Martin takes the opposing pg? Maybe they have a way to "wall off" the smaller point guards like Chris Paul? Should be interesting.
Unless we play the Zone, I think the answer is either that Evans will be guarding the opposing SG, not their PG, or that we will simply lose that matchup. I'd imagine that all of those 3 possibilities will happen some of the time.
I'm also sure that Evans won't be guarded by PGs all the time. Some of the faster PGs will probably manage to keep him turning the ball over with offensive fouls, but other PGs won't. So the Bryants and Wades and Roys of the league will be guarding him regularly. It's wishful thinking to expect that other teams will hand us favorable mismatches. Coach will just have to do his best with what he's got.
But keep in mind that Evans' defense against the smaller PGs in the massive PG workout was one reason he was so high on our board. He won't necessarily get burned when guarding a smaller PG.
I'd say that Derek Fisher (or Andre Miller) on Kevin Martin is a favorable mismatch. Maybe Chalmers cuts it, but if a team puts a bigger, better defender on Evans, Martin is poised for a field day.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
And if opposing teams guard Evans with their big guards, then Martin is going to have a HUGE smile on his face. He LOVES to have smaller guys guarding him. He repeatedly destroys smaller guards. The coaches who go "small ball" on Martin rue the day...
jalfa
Starter
Are you quite sure about that? I remember Martin being stopped several times by an opposing teams point guard, since he's not quicker than them, doesn't shoot over them very well and can't post them up either. Do you recall specific instances where Martin had huge games, being guarded by a smaller player?
Kings Faithful
Starter
Honestly I don't think it matters who guards Martin. As long as it isn't Artest or Battier, the only one that is going to stop him... is himself. Martin averaged 24 ppg last year, pretty much every game was a field day. The only time he scored less than 10 points is when...
A. He was cold for some inexplicable reason or
B. He was injured.
I don't think were are going to see much improvement in Martins game when it comes to "someone else to draw defenders". The real player who is going to benefit from the others presence is Tyreke.
HighTopKicks
Bench
Didn't Martin score 50 against GSW's small ball team?
Yes, and his next-highest output was in Indiana coming off the bench for 45. I don't remember who was on him, but by the box score it was probably Marquis Daniels and Jarrett Jack...put it this way: Jarrett Jack, T.J. Ford and Travis Diener combined for 68+ minutes in the game, so for at least 20 minutes there were two PGs on the floor.
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