[Game] Kings vs. Pacers - 11/30/22, 7PM PST, 10PM EST

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Because it's a bad take. And it's being proven this season that the Kings are significantly better with Sabonis than they were with Hali. He's the engine of a top 5 offense.

The trade always predicated on Sabonis resigning here. Now that we know the skill-sets mesh so well with Brown/Fox, that's the only remaining hitch on this being one of the best win-win trades in recent history. And where Kings fans are rightfully frustrated is it feels like national media (and a few on this forum) just ignore what Sabonis has been doing in a Kings uniform. He's a deserving all-star.
Watching Sabonis out there is just an absolute joy. Apart from acting as the fulcrum of the Kings offense with his insane court vision, he is constantly communicating on both sides of the floor, hyping his teammates up when they make big plays, encouraging them when they miss a shot or blow an assignment, and yanking guys up off the parquet after no-calls to help them get back on defense. He's an all-star center, the second-best passing big in the NBA, a team leader on and off the court, and a pile of other intangibles that may not show up in the stat sheet but are, in my view, largely responsible for the Kings' infectious energy and early success this season.
 
Watching Sabonis out there is just an absolute joy. Apart from acting as the fulcrum of the Kings offense with his insane court vision, he is constantly communicating on both sides of the floor, hyping his teammates up when they make big plays, encouraging them when they miss a shot or blow an assignment, and yanking guys up off the parquet after no-calls to help them get back on defense. He's an all-star center, the second-best passing big in the NBA, a team leader on and off the court, and a pile of other intangibles that may not show up in the stat sheet but are, in my view, largely responsible for the Kings' infectious energy and early success this season.
Brown certainly deserves a lot of credit - as do Fox for returning to the guy we thought he would be and Monte for building this team - but as someone who was lukewarm immediately about the trade, the first game Sabonis played with us it really changed my view because he was doing so much that doesn't show up in any stat sheet, game log or even a written game summary.

He may have some matchup problems in potential playoff series but for a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 16 seasons, that's a bridge you cross next.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
December 2017 I was home for Christmas and wanted to go with my dad to the game and see G1C for first time. My mom requested I stay home that night (and well she did have a surprise for me that was worth the ask), but I would lose my dad 6 weeks later.

We lost Christine. There are others.

Many of us will probably never see the Kings raise a banner if we are being real. But we can see playoff basketball again. We can have 50+ game winners again. There can be a time where 3/4 games you go to at G1C you are relatively assured you'll see a win.

To me that's sorta the point. Yeah winning it all would be just the literal crowning achievement but god damn. I just want to leave the arena happy.
RINGZZZ~! Culture has made sports fandom a zero-sum game for a lot of people: either you're rooting for a team that can win a championship, or you're wasting your time. "Stuck on a treadmill," or whatever the ****. I don't like consuming sports-as-entertainment like that, that's a big part of why I got out of the rooting-for-teams business.
 
“The Kings had a bad offseason actually” is such a weird hill to die on that I honestly respect the commitment.

Not for nothing but the Kings and Pacers rosters aren’t that far apart in average age, with the only “old” King getting huge roster minute being Harrison Barnes, who is 30 years old. Meanwhile a lot of the Pacers surprise success this season has come on the backs of the two guys they’ve been trying to showcase to the Lakers all year. Ideally they’d be able to pawn those guys off for more assets and really kick their rebuild off but most of the contenders around the league at this point have fully exhausted their resources or are smart enough to not give up a bunch of picks for a three month rental of Myles Turner and two more years of Buddy’s contract.

While the Pacers have three picks in the upcoming draft, none of those picks are gonna wind up being very good unless the Pacers start playing tank games sooner rather than later (They have the Celtics and Cavs picks this season but both of those could wind up being in the mid-late 20s range).

I really liked Benn going into the draft but his defense has honestly been worse than advertised and I’m pretty sure the 10 free throws a night he’s been getting in Indiana would have been two or three a night on the Kings because the refs hate us. Also us drafting him would probably mean no Huerter and/or Monk and also an even bigger hole at the wing (while Benn is as big as a lot of wings, he’s pretty much exclusively been a guard in the NBA).

Meanwhile, Pacers fans are stuck in the same holding pattern we were with Buddy Hield where we would try to convince ourselves that he’s actually secretly very good while we wait for the Lakers to get desperate enough to trade for him because no other team in their right mind would trade for a 30-year-old volume shooting two guard who is bad at defense and making decisions.

Of course the huge pivot point for the Pacers is Myles’s impending free agency. The guy’s had a good enough year that he’s probably gonna demand a huge deal this summer and, while he’s young enough that he could still fit their timeline, hamstringing your rebuild by offering your 4th option role player a massive contract one year into a full reconstruction doesn’t really seem like the smartest way to do things (see: Vlade giving Buddy a nine figure extension pretty much the first chance he could resulting in the Kings having no cap room to work with for the next couple of seasons).

Tyrese is also eligible for a max extension this summer which is, as we all know, when the real fun begins (I.e. random dudes on the internet start ripping him to shreds for not being good at defense or not leaving an imprint or whatever).

It’s also yet to be seen how this hot start to the season has affected their notoriously anti-tanking owner’s rubber stamping of a couple of rebuilding seasons. How many more games do they have to win this season before their owner gets greedy and asks Kevin Pritchard to trade picks and some of their lesser prospects for guys to help them win now?

For all the talk about the Kings hamstringing their future to make the play-in, they only have one outgoing pick that’ll probably (knock on wood) convey in 2024 at somewhere around the 15-25 range and have a surplus of second round picks to tool with/sell to the Rockets so they can draft KJ Martin. Also the guy they traded that pick for turned out to be better than anticipated to the point he’s getting MIP talk and is still under contract for the next for years on incredibly affordable money, which I guess counts as treadmilling if the treadmill in question is a Scrooge MacDuck style dive into a pool of found money.

Nothing about what this Kings team is doing seems fluky or unsustainable. If anything, there’s ample room for improvement but also clear ways for that improvement to be achieved. After 16 years of waffling and desperate grabs for assets that would rarely pan out (I’m looking at you, Derrick Williams signing), we’ve finally advanced past the asset accumulation stage of team building and are at the spending assets to get even better stage. This isn’t to say that the Kings need to go out there and trade all our picks and pick swaps for the first disgruntled star that wants a move but to say that the Kings have finally moved beyond “Hopefully this young guy pans out so we can someday eventually be good again”.

You may not have liked the plan or think that it’s not the right way to go about things but thus far it’s been working and probably working better than a full blow it up rebuild would have given the circumstances of this franchise in regards to its standing in the NBA hierarchy.

I’m not trying to say everything is all sunshine and rainbows. We’re still only 20 games into the season. But if you’re going to go through the motions of the facade of being a Kings fan, at least try to act even a teeny little bit excited by what has been the best stretch of basketball by this franchise in 18 years.
im so glad you said 18 years. I hear 16 and cringe. Those 05/06 teams were brutal to watch.
 
Are you going to light the beam? There's a lot of excitement for a Wednesday night game in November, against a team, who is playing a few ticks above its current talent level. Over drafting a dude at #4 and trading a future first to treadmill ain't my thing. I like my teams to have goals a few ticks beyond its reach.
I would also like to be the richest person in the world, the greatest athlete, and marry the most beautiful woman, but here I am, contributing to a meaningless post after a "Wednesday night game in November".

To state the obvious, there is no "obvious" path to success. We have been at it for close to two decades now, and this is one of a handful of times we are even hopeful after 20 odd games.

What pray, is the magic solution that will turn us into a contender from a lottery team? What path do you suggest we take that guarantees, or at least presents a significantly better chance to have "goals a few ticks beyond its reach"? Can we magically transform each player into a defensive monster? Can we impart some of your wisdom to the coaching staff? Can we somehow convince Dallas to trade us Luka for Barnes? What exactly is the solution that critics propose?

Teams like OKC and Houston have tried a complete reset in recent past. While the story is not yet over, the returns so far are not encouraging. With the NBA making tanking less attractive, it makes even less sense to do a complete rebuild. Most teams that go that route, typically have a high-valued star they can sell for huge assets. We ourselves did it (with limited success) for DMC. Who on the roster last year would have fetched a similar return?

It's one thing to criticize the team and management. Decisions can be second guessed. Fans have the luxury of not knowing what really is available, and can play fantasy GM on the trade machine. GMs have to negotiate with what's available. That said, this is part of their job, and they know some criticism will come their way. But to trivialize one of our better seasons in recent past, I fail to understand the rationale behind that?
 
Watching Sabonis out there is just an absolute joy. Apart from acting as the fulcrum of the Kings offense with his insane court vision, he is constantly communicating on both sides of the floor, hyping his teammates up when they make big plays, encouraging them when they miss a shot or blow an assignment, and yanking guys up off the parquet after no-calls to help them get back on defense. He's an all-star center, the second-best passing big in the NBA, a team leader on and off the court, and a pile of other intangibles that may not show up in the stat sheet but are, in my view, largely responsible for the Kings' infectious energy and early success this season.
100%.

He is the Kings' most indispensable player - and I don't think it's close.
 
Watching Sabonis out there is just an absolute joy. Apart from acting as the fulcrum of the Kings offense with his insane court vision, he is constantly communicating on both sides of the floor, hyping his teammates up when they make big plays, encouraging them when they miss a shot or blow an assignment, and yanking guys up off the parquet after no-calls to help them get back on defense. He's an all-star center, the second-best passing big in the NBA, a team leader on and off the court, and a pile of other intangibles that may not show up in the stat sheet but are, in my view, largely responsible for the Kings' infectious energy and early success this season.
It was great to see Sabonis in action against his old team for the first time...the emotions for him, Hali and Buddy were obviously affecting them all to varying degrees...
You guys are looking good...the talent level is so noticeably improved and its a talent-driven league as we all know.
Seems our franchises will always be connected as you now have Mike Brown as well...I'm very curious how things go with him...Ive always thought he was a great asst coach...and a good head coach...lets see if he makes that final step to greatness now that hes got a pretty talented group. Last night and a few of the other games certainly bode well for such.
No fun ever losing, but it was pretty much expected. While we, too, are more talented than we were a year ago, I dont think we are on par with the Kings at this point. But if in season trades are made like last year and we have another good draft...well then...we might be getting somewhere..
IN the meantime games are alot more enjoyable these days...and a big part of that is because of Hali affecting games in such a positive manner-just as i think Sabonis has done for Kings fans.
Good Luck...hope things keep rolling along
 
He's an all-star center, the second-best passing big in the NBA,.
I’m not convinced anyone is better. Just because another player has averaged more assists and been in an offense that centers around them and their skillset for a longer period of time doesn’t make them better.

Russell Westbrook has averaged double-figure assists many times. But there are many better passers that don’t average the same number of assists.
 
I get that instant gratification has a limit, even when it returns a championship like the AD deal for the Lakers..
No it didn’t. That wasn’t a real NBA season and you know it. It was more like a short tournament put on by the NBA (and MLB) to make the fans feel good in the wake of the Kobe Bryant tragedy and the pandemic.

Nothing about the 2020 seasons was remotely like a real season. And we’ve seen how pathetic the LAL have been in numerous other real seasons. They’re trash. Not a contender.
 
Stumbling through twitter I learned that the technical assessed on Indiana for being out of timeouts occurred as a result of the mandatory TV timeout. I had incorrectly assumed Carlisle just tried to take the timeout.

In all my years watching I guess I never noticed that each team is forced to use one of their timeouts on one of the two TV timeouts per quarter.

But that begs the question why go through that motion to begin with, and just not give each team the legal amount of timeouts they can take?
 
No it didn’t. That wasn’t a real NBA season and you know it. It was more like a short tournament put on by the NBA (and MLB) to make the fans feel good in the wake of the Kobe Bryant tragedy and the pandemic.

Nothing about the 2020 seasons was remotely like a real season. And we’ve seen how pathetic the LAL have been in numerous other real seasons. They’re trash. Not a contender.
I think you missed what I was saying there which is that the AD trade was a total bust, even allowing for the asterisk chip, because it has pretty much banished that franchise to spending the remainder of the decade in irrelevance.

Nothing about the Hali for Sabonis swap is going to have any long term effect on either franchise other than the enjoyment they get out of those players right now. - ie, if the Kings suck, they still own all their picks. The trade isn't costing them the ability to sign other FAs. etc. etc. (arguably the same may not be true for Indy as they actually do have to sign Hali to a mega-extension and they suddenly/unexpectedly are on the clock for Turner because they are doing better than expected right now).
 
Yesterday was GREAT. However, to fans who can think past a season or 2, a lot of long term thinking fans still wouldn't make the hali trade again. When all is said and done which means 7-8 years down the road, the kings will be the loser of this deal. But again, I'm thinking in totality, not 1 or 2 seasons down the road. Last night, we won the trade. It was an awesome showing.

I don't get why thinking we lost the hali trade is such a thorn in most fans sides. Its debated what, 2-3 times a year at this point? Big deal! Now we move on in the schedule and its dropped until we play them again. Its kind of like Luka. At this point in time the kings shatting the bed and not drafting a generational player is now only brought up when we play him. It'll always be there but its no longer an everyday debate.
Because it's a bad take. And it's being proven this season that the Kings are significantly better with Sabonis than they were with Hali. He's the engine of a top 5 offense.

The trade always predicated on Sabonis resigning here. Now that we know the skill-sets mesh so well with Brown/Fox, that's the only remaining hitch on this being one of the best win-win trades in recent history. And where Kings fans are rightfully frustrated is it feels like national media (and a few on this forum) just ignore what Sabonis has been doing in a Kings uniform. He's a deserving all-star.
Jamal is right. It is a bad take. Or at the very least premature. There’s no justification right now for saying the KINGS will be the loser of this deal in 7 or 8 years. That’s just a prediction. And based upon what?

As someone that wasn’t happy when the trade was made — I can now see the benefit. And while I still like Tyrese, I don’t know that this won’t turn out to be a fantastic trade for the KINGS long term. A lot still has to play out.

But right now it’s looking promising.

What happens 7-8 years from now is really immaterial. But if you’re truly worried about such things there’s absolutely nothing to suggest it’s going to turn out badly.

If Domas doesn’t re-sign then we can re-visit. But all signs point to him liking it here in SAC. And for all we know Tyrese may not even be on the Pacers in 7-8 years. Who knows in the NBA?
 
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I think you missed what I was saying there which is that the AD trade was a total bust, even allowing for the asterisk chip, because it has pretty much banished that franchise to spending the remainder of the decade in irrelevance.

Nothing about the Hali for Sabonis swap is going to have any long term effect on either franchise other than the enjoyment they get out of those players right now. - ie, if the Kings suck, they still own all their picks. The trade isn't costing them the ability to sign other FAs. etc. etc. (arguably the same may not be true for Indy as they actually do have to sign Hali to a mega-extension and they suddenly/unexpectedly are on the clock for Turner because they are doing better than expected right now).
Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. I did miss your point. My bad.
 
Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. I did miss your point. My bad.
I feel like we've done it before. Make no mistake, I put asterisk all over that chip.

Maybe an asterisk chip is worth that for a team like Sacramento (IMHO it absolutely isn't because nobody got to be there). But there is no way in hell a franchise as proud as the Lakers, who already had 17, should have mortgaged an entire decade like they did. It really makes you wonder if they'll amend the Stepien rule somehow to remove pick swaps if the Lakers end up coughing up a top 2 to NOP this season.
 
I’m not convinced anyone is better. Just because another player has averaged more assists and been in an offense that centers around them and their skillset for a longer period of time doesn’t make them better.

Russell Westbrook has averaged double-figure assists many times. But there are many better passers that don’t average the same number of assists.
Second-best is no slight against Sabonis. When it's all said and done, Nikola Jokic may be the best passing big man of all time, not just amongst his peers in the NBA today. And that's not solely a function of Jokic's counting stats.
 
Second-best is no slight against Sabonis. When it's all said and done, Nikola Jokic may be the best passing big man of all time, not just amongst his peers in the NBA today. And that's not solely a function of Jokic's counting stats.
Based upon what? I’m not seeing it. I’ve seen lots of bigs that are equally as good, if not better. Some just weren’t in offenses to take full advantage of it or just had so much other great talent surrounding them that skillset was underutilized.

There’s nothing anybody can show me that would prove Jokic as a better passer or having better vision or anticipation than Wilt Chamberlain, Arvydas Sabonis, Bill Russell, Bill Walton, etc. Or even more than our own Chris Webber and Vlade Divac.

Totally different eras too.

I’m not even buying that Jokic is for sure better than Domas in this era.
 
Based upon what? I’m not seeing it. I’ve seen lots of bigs that are equally as good, if not better. Some just weren’t in offenses to take full advantage of it or just had so much other great talent surrounding them that skillset was underutilized.



There’s nothing anybody can show me that would prove Jokic as a better passer or having better vision or anticipation than Wilt Chamberlain, Arvydas Sabonis, Bill Russell, Bill Walton, etc. Or even more than our own Chris Webber and Vlade Divac.



Totally different eras too.



I’m not even buying that Jokic is for sure better than Domas in this era.
Jokic has been doing it longer, and more efficiently with bigger #s...
 
Would like to point out one fact about 'the trade". If it was Fox going out, we wouldn't have Monk. We probably would have resigned Donte and not have Huerter.



And We wouldn't have a shot at Bam. Don't kid yourself. Bam would love to get the band back together and play with Monk and Fox. If you don't remember how much Bam loves Fox, rewatch the post-game when Kentucky lost in the NCAA tourney.

Bam, Fox, and Monk with Sabonis and Huerter is championship material, especially if Murray pans out.

I dont think Bam to the Kings is a pipe dream. At all.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
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Would like to point out one fact about 'the trade". If it was Fox going out, we wouldn't have Monk. We probably would have resigned Donte and not have Huerter.

And We wouldn't have a shot at Bam. Don't kid yourself. Bam would love to get the band back together and play with Monk and Fox. If you don't remember how much Bam loves Fox, rewatch the post-game when Kentucky lost in the NCAA tourney.

Bam, Fox, and Monk with Sabonis and Huerter is championship material, especially if Murray pans out.

I dont think Bam to the Kings is a pipe dream. At all.
I mean, Bam would be great with that team, but he's making about $135M over the next four years. We'd have to send out nearly $30M in salary to get him back in trade this year, and that will only climb in future years. With the players we're keeping, we're basically sending out...Barnes and Holmes? Include all the picks you want, I just can't see that being a tempting move for Miami.
 
I mean, Bam would be great with that team, but he's making about $135M over the next four years. We'd have to send out nearly $30M in salary to get him back in trade this year, and that will only climb in future years. With the players we're keeping, we're basically sending out...Barnes and Holmes? Include all the picks you want, I just can't see that being a tempting move for Miami.

I didn't say this year. But in the next year or 2, JB gonna age out and Miami will want to hit reset. Picks and salary relief will help....
 
I don't think Bam is gonna come here but if the cap takes a jump and he is willing to take 3 years at a discount to play with his best friends, and he has been remotely responsible with his 135m you never know what could happen.

Trade would be pretty rough though.
 
I am not seeing many games these days because it is now difficult unless I spend $75 a month.
But any team that can get 137 points in a night is going to have to be reckoned with.
If their defense continues to improve and they can get to average, they will be in the playoffs.
 
I am not seeing many games these days because it is now difficult unless I spend $75 a month.
But any team that can get 137 points in a night is going to have to be reckoned with.
If their defense continues to improve and they can get to average, they will be in the playoffs.
If you have good internet, League Pass was dirt cheap this year (I think it might still be on a Black Friday/Cyber week deal) - under $100 for the year. Also most games can be had on the NBC Sports App if you have immediate family who is in Sacramento and an Xfinity sub.
 
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