[Game] Kings vs Knicks 3/4- 7PT/10ET (A Must Win!)

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VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
A few thoughts:

Harry Giles is gonna bring a lot of smiles to a lot of faces. He has a swagger when he walks onto the court that exudes confidence. He is the real deal.
Bogi looks tired and frustrated.
I've just about lost any hope for WCS. So many careless plays - way too many attempts to be fancy with passes (and it appeared to be contagious) and just a lack of the hunger I would expect to see in a player on his contract year. He let boards go by and shied away from shots he could have/should have made. I just don't get it. He seemed more content sitting on the bench and cheering for the other guys. He seemed to have very little energy.
It's pretty obvious Bagley can and will be a big difference maker. I kept watching him on the bench tonight and he was totally involved in what was going on the entire game.
Scott Moak didn't even sound really involved tonight. It was the first time in memory that he seemed like any other announcer - and I've never seen that before.
Harrison Barnes brings something to the Kings on and off the court that is worth keeping.
Corey Brewer plays with an intensity I truly wish he could teach to a certain center.

I don't know if it was the uncertainty about possible demonstrators, but there was just something missing in the fan collective tonight. If the officials hadn't made it a 5 against 8 scenario, I'm not sure the fans would have come together at all. One of the weirdest games I've ever attended - but I really liked the seats.
 
I really enjoyed the game as the knicks have been playing tough lately. Last nights game showed the Barnes I thought we were going to get.

Harry you have come along way since the beginning of the season and I am happy to have you. When we drafted him some folks thought that was a great pick at that spot. Man he just may become our starter next year.
 
I've just about lost any hope for WCS. So many careless plays - way too many attempts to be fancy with passes (and it appeared to be contagious) and just a lack of the hunger I would expect to see in a player on his contract year. He let boards go by and shied away from shots he could have/should have made. I just don't get it. He seemed more content sitting on the bench and cheering for the other guys. He seemed to have very little energy.
Willie had 5 assists and 0 turnovers... RealGM had him at 12.6 FIC(Floor Impact Calculator), 3rd highest King in the game...


Conversely Harry Giles 2 assists 4 turnovers and his passing is the greatest thing since sliced bread. LOL.



Here is the list of top qualified C's in AST:TO ratio


1 Al Horford 2.64 (Makes $30MM per season)
2 Jokic 2.36 (Makes $25.5MM per szn)
3 Marc Gasol 2.18 (Makes $24.2MM per szn)
4 WCS 2.16
5 Vucevic 2.05 (Makes $13MM this szn)
6 Nurkic 1.42 (Makes $11.1MM this szn)
7 Aldridge 1.35 (Makes $23.2MM this szn)
8 Julius Randle 1.17 (Makes $8.7MM this szn)
9 KAT 1.14 (Signed 5-year $190MM extension)
10 Embiid .97 (Makes $25.5 this szn)



Meanwhile Willie gets paid a measley $4.7MM this season in comparison.....
 
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Willie had 5 assists and 0 turnovers... RealGM had him at 12.6 FIC(Floor Impact Calculator), 3rd highest King in the game...


Conversely Harry Giles 2 assists 4 turnovers and his passing is the greatest thing since sliced bread. LOL.



Here is the list of top qualified C's in AST:TO ratio


1 Al Horford 2.64 (Makes $30MM per season)
2 Jokic 2.36 (Makes $25.5MM per szn)
3 Marc Gasol 2.18 (Makes $24.2MM per szn)
4 WCS 2.16
5 Vucevic 2.05 (Makes $13MM this szn)
6 Nurkic 1.42 (Makes $11.1MM this szn)
7 Aldridge 1.35 (Makes $23.2MM this szn)
8 Julius Randle 1.17 (Makes $8.7MM this szn)
9 KAT 1.14 (Signed 5-year $190MM extension)
10 Embiid .97 (Makes $25.5 this szn)



Meanwhile Willie gets paid a measley $4.7MM this season in comparison.....

The eye test tells me that a few of those Giles turnovers were on the teammate, miss handling the ball.

No one, in their right mind, would say WCS is a better passer than Giles. What your stats do say is that WCS takes less risk than Giles.
 
The Kings played well enough to win against a weak team. Very underwhelming performance.
Barnes and Brewer and doing exactly what they are supposed to do.
Giles is playing great, but he better keep better track of his elbows.
Bogdan needs to step it up or he is going to be second unit only.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Although a big proponent of playing Giles a lot more, I wouldn't say he's playing great. His scoring has been very good, but his defense and rebounding is not what you want to see at the center position. I really think these fouls, including the elbow to a Knicks' face last night, is due to the frustration of being manhandled in the post. He doesn't have the the skeletal build for a center, imo. Therefore, I'm puzzled where he finds his position on the floor. He sure looks like more of a 4 or a 3 in his build. I never have heard an explanation of why he's played at the 5.
 
Willie had 5 assists and 0 turnovers... RealGM had him at 12.6 FIC(Floor Impact Calculator), 3rd highest King in the game...


Conversely Harry Giles 2 assists 4 turnovers and his passing is the greatest thing since sliced bread. LOL.



Here is the list of top qualified C's in AST:TO ratio


1 Al Horford 2.64 (Makes $30MM per season)
2 Jokic 2.36 (Makes $25.5MM per szn)
3 Marc Gasol 2.18 (Makes $24.2MM per szn)
4 WCS 2.16
5 Vucevic 2.05 (Makes $13MM this szn)
6 Nurkic 1.42 (Makes $11.1MM this szn)
7 Aldridge 1.35 (Makes $23.2MM this szn)
8 Julius Randle 1.17 (Makes $8.7MM this szn)
9 KAT 1.14 (Signed 5-year $190MM extension)
10 Embiid .97 (Makes $25.5 this szn)



Meanwhile Willie gets paid a measley $4.7MM this season in comparison.....

What are you trying to say with this? I know you watch the games. There are some things Willie does really well, and there are some thing he is really bad at. He doesn't force it, that's good, but he also doesn't really facilitate. So his turnovers will be quite low.

Willie is a low tier starting C and a quality backup C. His shot blocking has improved as of late and he switches pretty well. He is terrible in the post on both offense and defense. A lot of his numbers will be skewed because of how many dunks he gets. Some of that is because he's good in the open court and some is because he's playing with some really good play makers.

I'm not sure I want the Kings to resign him because I think starting Bagley and backfilling the Center position is a better use of minutes allocation and our current roster.
 
What are you trying to say with this? I know you watch the games. There are some things Willie does really well, and there are some thing he is really bad at. He doesn't force it, that's good, but he also doesn't really facilitate. So his turnovers will be quite low.

Willie is a low tier starting C and a quality backup C. His shot blocking has improved as of late and he switches pretty well. He is terrible in the post on both offense and defense. A lot of his numbers will be skewed because of how many dunks he gets. Some of that is because he's good in the open court and some is because he's playing with some really good play makers.

I'm not sure I want the Kings to resign him because I think starting Bagley and backfilling the Center position is a better use of minutes allocation and our current roster.
I'm in the sign WCS only for the right price camp. He fits well from a pace perspective and is bigger than our two young bigs at this time.

That said, the offense noticeably clogs up with WCS at the high post. He can't consistently make that mid range shot, can't drive, and is simply not a dynamic passer. Opposing defenses sag off of him, push against other Kings, and dare WCS to beat them. He hasn't and won't.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
I'm in the sign WCS only for the right price camp. He fits well from a pace perspective and is bigger than our two young bigs at this time.

That said, the offense noticeably clogs up with WCS at the high post. He can't consistently make that mid range shot, can't drive, and is simply not a dynamic passer. Opposing defenses sag off of him, push against other Kings, and dare WCS to beat them. He hasn't and won't.
Yeah, it seems like a lot of Willie's successful assists stem from him panicking as dudes leave him wide open at the elbow and quickly passing the ball out to Buddy or Bogi who immediately jack up a shot and make it

Now obviously a big part of the criticism of WCS stems from both (a) the fact that he constantly says dumb stuff that would indicate that he does not truly "get it" and more importantly (b) is playing directly in front of two legitimate prospects in Marvin and Harry who personality-wise are the polar opposites of Willie and operate with a smoothness and purpose that Willie has yet to really play with aside from the game immediately after Boogie got traded.

That all said, I would definitely keep Willie as a third big at a third big salary. He's become a great help defender (though not a consistent rim protector) and he's still a seven footer with the agility of a shooting guard.
 
While not a dominant win by any stretch, we controlled most of this game. The key to this small success was ball movement, something that has been noticeably absent during much of our recent stretch of mediocrity.
 
Willie had 5 assists and 0 turnovers... RealGM had him at 12.6 FIC(Floor Impact Calculator), 3rd highest King in the game...


Conversely Harry Giles 2 assists 4 turnovers and his passing is the greatest thing since sliced bread. LOL.



Here is the list of top qualified C's in AST:TO ratio


1 Al Horford 2.64 (Makes $30MM per season)
2 Jokic 2.36 (Makes $25.5MM per szn)
3 Marc Gasol 2.18 (Makes $24.2MM per szn)
4 WCS 2.16
5 Vucevic 2.05 (Makes $13MM this szn)
6 Nurkic 1.42 (Makes $11.1MM this szn)
7 Aldridge 1.35 (Makes $23.2MM this szn)
8 Julius Randle 1.17 (Makes $8.7MM this szn)
9 KAT 1.14 (Signed 5-year $190MM extension)
10 Embiid .97 (Makes $25.5 this szn)



Meanwhile Willie gets paid a measley $4.7MM this season in comparison.....
Ok these advanced stats are really getting ludicrous at this point, "Floor Impact Calculator"? What the hell is that.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm sure it makes sense, but good god I don't understand half of the stats that come out these days.
 
I mean it's hard to have TOs if every pass you do is a hand off?

Giles actually has a good passing game. One bad game doesn't diminish that. No doubt he needs to improve and no doubt WCS is a better player right now(Esp defensively). But Giles is still a player to get excited about.
 
I think the rotation next season looks like this

Bagley Giles
Barnes
????? ????
Hield Bogdanovic
Fox Ferrell

Bjelica could see minutes at PF as well. Barnes could start at SF.
But the king's are short 1-2(depending on whether you see Bjelica as a rotation piece going forward) who need to be good rebounders and have have 3pt range.

Unless WCS is a signed and traded I can't see the king's holding back Bayleys growth.
 
The eye test tells me that a few of those Giles turnovers were on the teammate, miss handling the ball.

No one, in their right mind, would say WCS is a better passer than Giles. What your stats do say is that WCS takes less risk than Giles.
I mean, Buddy Hield literally said Giles is the best passer on the team..
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Willie had 5 assists and 0 turnovers... RealGM had him at 12.6 FIC(Floor Impact Calculator), 3rd highest King in the game...


Conversely Harry Giles 2 assists 4 turnovers and his passing is the greatest thing since sliced bread. LOL.



Here is the list of top qualified C's in AST:TO ratio


1 Al Horford 2.64 (Makes $30MM per season)
2 Jokic 2.36 (Makes $25.5MM per szn)
3 Marc Gasol 2.18 (Makes $24.2MM per szn)
4 WCS 2.16
5 Vucevic 2.05 (Makes $13MM this szn)
6 Nurkic 1.42 (Makes $11.1MM this szn)
7 Aldridge 1.35 (Makes $23.2MM this szn)
8 Julius Randle 1.17 (Makes $8.7MM this szn)
9 KAT 1.14 (Signed 5-year $190MM extension)
10 Embiid .97 (Makes $25.5 this szn)



Meanwhile Willie gets paid a measley $4.7MM this season in comparison.....
Dude - I was at the game...in person...up close enough to see all the action. WCS was NOT impressive by any means at all. Keep in mind I have defended him time and time again but last night WITH MY OWN TWO EYES I saw someone who simply isn't what the Kings want/need/deserve. It wasn't just me either. The whole area around me groaned more than once as he stepped away from potential rebounds, kept the ball when he shoul have passed it to a guard, etc. Had Harry not gotten ejected I seriously doubt if Willie would have stepped back on the court. The difference in attitude between the two was palpable.

I'm done defending the WCS I saw last night. He and Bogs were both unimpressive, but Bogs at least looked like he cared.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
While not a dominant win by any stretch, we controlled most of this game. The key to this small success was ball movement, something that has been noticeably absent during much of our recent stretch of mediocrity.
Agree. The only time the Knicks were able to close the gap were those times when iso reared its ugly head. When the Kings were passing (even though there were some HORRIBLY ugly passes/attempts), they pretty much had everything under control.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Ok these advanced stats are really getting ludicrous at this point, "Floor Impact Calculator"? What the hell is that.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm sure it makes sense, but good god I don't understand half of the stats that come out these days.
Oxy can go by his stats. I'll go by my eyes. WCS was NOT an asset to the Kings last night. He looked like he would really have liked to be somewhere else - and most of the people in my section would have helped send him there.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Oxy can go by his stats. I'll go by my eyes. WCS was NOT an asset to the Kings last night. He looked like he would really have liked to be somewhere else - and most of the people in my section would have helped send him there.
That's why he's not going to be a King next year, VF21. If you and others can see it, Divac and Joerger can definitely see it.
 
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