[Game] Kings v. Wizards - Sunday, Oct. 29 - 3 PT

Will John Wall be the latest victim of Foxitis?

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    25
Blob said:
I feel there's something we are not being told about resting these guys so soon.

Was there a flare up between player and coach that led to this decision?

Was there discussion about moving them to the bench over which they did not take too kindly???

It seems strange to rest these guys 6 games into the season AFTER two off-days and AFTER shortened training camp when neither Z-Bong or Hill was on the floor much.

Regardless, it doesn't bode well.
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We've heard all along that Joerger is going to experiment with lineups. This is a good experiment, imo.
 
Blob said:
I feel there's something we are not being told about resting these guys so soon.

Was there a flare up between player and coach that led to this decision?

Was there discussion about moving them to the bench over which they did not take too kindly???

It seems strange to rest these guys 6 games into the season AFTER two off-days and AFTER shortened training camp when neither Z-Bong or Hill was on the floor much.

Regardless, it doesn't bode well.
Click to expand...
Orrrr.....it is the plan that they anticipated from before the season. Seems smart if the goal was to get more minutes for a Mason or Malachi or Papa or whatever they are going to do. I guess for the conspiracy theorist guys, see if it happens in another 5 games or so when Koufos or Carter or Temple sit
 
In Sacramento, we're trained to know nothing is as it seems and everything is typically the worst case scenario.

I don't blame the conspiracies. :P
 
John Galt said:
I think "resting" Hill and ZBo is a smart way to "test drive" the rookie lineup. If the rookies light it up, Joerger can say "they've earned a shot at playing together". If they sputter, it is easy to go back to his original line-up without demoralizing the kids. It makes sense to me.
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I don't know, a coach needs to have the strength of his convictions and be forthright with his players to earn their respect and trust.

Certainly there are egos to be managed, but what is wrong with being open and saying my original plan has not worked as projected?

What is wrong with Joerger saying effectively we need to explore as a group and experiment to find combination that is going to show more cohesion and synergy?

If what you are suggesting is true, it is an underhanded way to initiate a line-up change.

I want my coach to be comfortable in his position of authority not orchestrate backdoor machinations to replace two ineffective starters.
 
Players that need rest show they need rest by their lack of energy on the floor. Maybe it's as simple as that - Joerger is saying that if he doesn't see the energy on the floor then he's got to assume the player needs the rest, and as coach he's doing the compassionate thing and sitting him for a game.:)
 
Blob said:
I don't know, a coach needs to have the strength of his convictions and be forthright with his players to earn their respect and trust.

Certainly there are egos to be managed, but what is wrong with being open and saying my original plan has not worked as projected?

What is wrong with Joerger saying effectively we need to explore as a group and experiment to find combination that is going to show more cohesion and synergy?

If what you are suggesting is true, it is an underhanded way to initiate a line-up change.

I want my coach to be comfortable in his position of authority not orchestrate backdoor machinations to replace two ineffective starters.
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But what if coach is not introducing a line-up change but plans to go back to the original. I think coach is playing it well no matter what he does next. There is no mystery here for the players. I’ll be there this afternoon and don’t expect to see any suffering either on the bench or in the game.
 
Kingster said:
Players that need rest show they need rest by their lack of energy on the floor. Maybe it's as simple as that - Joerger is saying that if he doesn't see the energy on the floor then he's got to assume the player needs the rest, and as coach he's doing the compassionate thing and sitting him for a game.:)
Click to expand...

It all makes perfect sense now. ;) Maybe he will give them a gift card to a day spa too
 
pshn80 said:
But what if coach is not introducing a line-up change but plans to go back to the original. I think coach is playing it well no matter what he does next. There is no mystery here for the players. I’ll be there this afternoon and don’t expect to see any suffering either on the bench or in the game.
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I am not suggesting what you are suggesting is not true. (LOL, double negatives are fun. Clear as pea soup.). In other words, the coach may very well plan to go back to Hill and Z-Bong as starters regardless of how Skal and Fox play today. I was merely responding to John Galt suggesting the coach is trying to finagle his way into a line-up change under the guise of "rest". I would prefer my coach to be more forthright than sneaky about it. He's paid to make these decisions and should not demure from this responsibility.
 
Blob said:
I am not suggesting what you are suggesting is not true. (LOL, double negatives are fun. Clear as pea soup.). In other words, the coach may very well plan to go back to Hill and Z-Bong as starters regardless of how Skal and Fox play today. I was merely responding to John Galt suggesting the coach is trying to finagle his way into a line-up change under the guise of "rest". I would prefer my coach to be more forthright than sneaky about it. He's paid to make these decisions and should not demure from this responsibility.
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I didn't say finagle.. you said finagle.

To speculate that DJ doesn't have the courage of his convictions, and is less than a straight shooter, I mean c'mon look at his body of work. It just feels like you'll pivot whatever way necessary to dis him. You're making up "finagle".

People are bitching at him to not play vets thru 5 games. So he doesn't play vets in game 6 and people ***** at him for and suspect "what is he really up to".... I don't know, whatever.

I don't have really that much of a counter to people who think the Kings problem is that they need a better coach. There's no response to that. I'll just leave it there - you can have last word but I cannot relate to where you're coming from with the criticisms of the coach.
 
Saw Bogdan walking into Arden fair mall last night. Drove by and I was like "that looks like Bogdan". As I was passing him that turned into "That IS Bogdan!".
 
John Galt said:
I didn't say finagle.. you said finagle.

To speculate that DJ doesn't have the courage of his convictions, and is less than a straight shooter, I mean c'mon look at his body of work. It just feels like you'll pivot whatever way necessary to dis him. You're making up "finagle".

People are bitching at him to not play vets thru 5 games. So he doesn't play vets in game 6 and people ***** at him for and suspect "what is he really up to".... I don't know, whatever.

I don't have really that much of a counter to people who think the Kings problem is that they need a better coach. There's no response to that. I'll just leave it there - you can have last word but I cannot relate to where you're coming from with the criticisms of the coach.
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I didn't say you said finagle. I said you "suggested that....". "Suggesting" and "saying" is the difference between implicit and explicit use of a word.

Now with the semantics out of the way and just to be clear, I don't think Joerger should be replaced or fired. I am okay with him. I just don't hold him in quite as high regard as you do or think his coaching is beyond reproach. He's competent maybe above average, but not exemplary. He's middle of the pack of NBA coaches as far as I can discern. His teams play hard. He has poise and engagement about him. But his real time decision making is tenuous. I don't trust him to make the right substitution or lineup in response to the flow of the game. He's not intuitive. He's dogmatic.

There is something to be said for patience but a coach also has to be flexible and strategically experimental not married to a line-up that is not working. There's a stubbornness to his coaching style that I think works against him. If you look at this new group, the number of new teammates, the number of rookies and second year guys and the shortened pre-season, our 1-4 record and frequent lethargic starts to the 1st and 3rd, there should be more change than stability at this point. Change with regards to lineups and starters should be part of the process in realizing who this team is going to be and forging a formidable identity. And it is HIS job as the coach and position of authority to clearly articulate this to those affected by the change.

So if there is pretense over which will preclude a line-up change, which you suggested not me, though I think it is a reasonable and viable suggestion, then I am only saying this pretense is NOT necessary given the aforementioned variables.
 
Blob said:
I didn't say you said finagle. I said you "suggested that....". "Suggesting" and "saying" is the difference between implicit and explicit use of a word.

Now with the semantics out of the way and just to be clear, I don't think Joerger should be replaced or fired. I am okay with him. I just don't hold him in quite as high regard as you do or think his coaching is beyond reproach. He's competent maybe above average, but not exemplary. He's middle of the pack of NBA coaches as far as I can discern. His teams play hard. He has poise and engagement about him. But his real time decision making is tenuous. I don't trust him to make the right substitution or lineup in response to the flow of the game. He's not intuitive. He's dogmatic.

There is something to be said for patience but a coach also has to be flexible and strategically experimental not married to a line-up that is not working. There's a stubbornness to his coaching style that I think works against him. If you look at this new group, the number of new teammates, the number of rookies and second year guys and the shortened pre-season, our 1-4 record and frequent lethargic starts to the 1st and 3rd, there should be more change than stability at this point. Change with regards to lineups and starters should be part of the process in realizing who this team is going to be and forging a formidable identity. And it is HIS job as the coach and position of authority to clearly articulate this to those affected by the change.

So if there is pretense over which will preclude a line-up change, which you suggested not me, though I think it is a reasonable and viable suggestion, then I am only saying this pretense is NOT necessary given the aforementioned variables.
Click to expand...

Yeah I didn't meant to imply that he was being duplicitous in the least though.. just reasonably diplomatic. Is it so very very strange to bench a pg with 3 assists and 3 turnovers per game, or a power forward who is shooting 34%? Is it weak to call it rest instead of doghouse. Maybe but I don't mind it.

Anyway I think he's doing exactly what you want him to do and you're picking nits/hair splitting over choices of words. but you know hoops like a son-of-a-gun so maybe you're right and Joerger is just a stopgap between Karl and whoever our championship coach will be. I'm more 'koolaid drunk bought in" on Joerger than most perhaps.
 
Blob said:
I am fine with your line-up too, , but I think Buddy could benefit tremendously from the draw and kick ability of Bogs and Fox.

With these guys are our best creators, I think you want the guy on the receiving end of these sweet dimes to be Buddy more often than Temple.

Temple has improved his offense, but he's not nearly as skilled and prone to lights-out streaks like Buddy Buckets.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree. I'm looking at Temple primarily for a defensive presence. Let Fox and Bogs ... and hopefully WCS ... carry most of the burden of the offense. If Fox can develop a rapport with WCS, I see lots of alley-oops. :)
 
Blob said:
I feel there's something we are not being told about resting these guys so soon.

Was there a flare up between player and coach that led to this decision?

Was there discussion about moving them to the bench over which they did not take too kindly???

It seems strange to rest these guys 6 games into the season AFTER two off-days and AFTER shortened training camp when neither Z-Bong or Hill was on the floor much.

Regardless, it doesn't bode well.
Click to expand...

Okay, I'll point it out once again.

Joerger made it clear before the season started that he was going to try a lot of different things. He said not to expect to see a solid starting five. I think some people are getting bogged down in terminology when Coach is doing pretty much what he said he would do.
 
John Galt said:
Yeah I didn't meant to imply that he was being duplicitous in the least though.. just reasonably diplomatic. Is it so very very strange to bench a pg with 3 assists and 3 turnovers per game, or a power forward who is shooting 34%? Is it weak to call it rest instead of doghouse. Maybe but I don't mind it.

Anyway I think he's doing exactly what you want him to do and you're picking nits/hair splitting over choices of words. but you know hoops like a son-of-a-gun so maybe you're right and Joerger is just a stopgap between Karl and whoever our championship coach will be. I'm more 'koolaid drunk bought in" on Joerger than most perhaps.
Click to expand...

There's no indication that he couldn't be our playoff team coach, but we're not at that stage. There was whatever the hell Karl was, there's where we're at now which is rebuilding, and then there's playoff or championship contention. A to B to C. We can't directly go from A to C, we have to go through B first, and the problem here is that he might not be as adept at B as he is at C.

But the Kings are the Kings and can't afford to picky if an above-average coach decides he wants to be here. But there are potential roadblocks and complaints to be had along the way through our current stage.
 
Fox
Hield
Bogs
Skal
WCS

Looks like a bunch of you get to see Hield with the kids. Hope it works as well as it should. This game should be fun.
 
The Effort Police said:
There's no indication that he couldn't be our playoff team coach, but we're not at that stage. There was whatever the hell Karl was, there's where we're at now which is rebuilding, and then there's playoff or championship contention. A to B to C. We can't directly go from A to C, we have to go through B first, and the problem here is that he might not be as adept at B as he is at C.

But the Kings are the Kings and can't afford to picky if an above-average coach decides he wants to be here. But there are potential roadblocks and complaints to be had along the way through our current stage.
Click to expand...

There are potential roadblocks and complaints to be had along the way, as you say. I just wish some of the complaints didn't sound quite so ...

weirdalfoil_2322.jpg
 
Just caught up on the pre-game. Absolutely LOVE that they used the infamous Fox-Christie clip. LOL!
 
The Effort Police said:
There's no indication that he couldn't be our playoff team coach, but we're not at that stage. There was whatever the hell Karl was, there's where we're at now which is rebuilding, and then there's playoff or championship contention. A to B to C. We can't directly go from A to C, we have to go through B first, and the problem here is that he might not be as adept at B as he is at C.

But the Kings are the Kings and can't afford to picky if an above-average coach decides he wants to be here. But there are potential roadblocks and complaints to be had along the way through our current stage.
Click to expand...
cool, amen. I hear ya
 
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